French Court Levies Fine Against Apple for Abusive App Store Practices

[Unregistered 4U]

Maybe app developers should have a union.

Not a bad idea, all come together, put up their money for a non-Google, non-Apple mobile hardware solution and drive their own destiny. I LIKE IT! Of course, during the early years, what the developers are paying to create and market their solution would be far more than what they’re getting out of it, but they could just keep working on it. Some ideas customers would like, some they wouldn’t, but that’s part of the risk of developing and maintaining consumer electronics.

Oh, and they’d have to have a group working on improvements to the OS (bug fixes/security), implementation of an App Store, etc. It’s a lot, sure, but as the developers would end up in a greater position of control, a position where they can say they get a cut of the profits even if their app isn’t selling well (because they DID fund the creation of the whole thing).

 

[wanha]

This is a juicer fine. 520 times bigger.

FTC fines Fortnite maker Epic Games $520M over children's privacy and item shop charges | TechCrunch

Epic Games will pay the FTC two record-breaking settlements over allegedly violating children's online privacy laws.

techcrunch.com

Their CEO wants to force metaverse garbage on kids and that stuff tracks users everywhere. It tracks everything about users.

But yeah sure say Apple did something bad. Microsoft and Sony stores on consoles are the same as the iOS App Store.

Yes, but... you will probably agree that most people NEED mobile apps vs most people don't NEED playstation or Xbox games. Games are leisure, many things that happen on mobile are not.

For instance, boarding passes, car keys, and in the future - our wallets - will largely exist on our mobile devices.

Whether we like it or not, mobile phones are a huge part of modern life and their role is only getting more significant.

Whoever is the gatekeeper thus has an absurd level of power, and it is this power that the courts are trying to curb - although IMO in often extremely stupid and near-sighted ways.

 

[macduke]

A million dollars? Why even bother??

 

[JohnnyAppleSeed1]

I don't want any app by any whiny dev. The only reason they make any money at all is because of Apple. Be grateful Apple allows you to make a living and just work on your app.

You know there are companies such as floatplane that make $0 on their ios app. They just have one to better the user experience. Its mindless drones that make the world worse for everyone else. Like musk fans.

 

[Muzzakus]

$1M, what sort of pocket change is that?

French Dr Evil running the show.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

This is 'attack of the green eyed monsters'. A company is highly successful, so they start to change the rules to make them less so.

 

[wanha]

Another crack in the dam. Apple can't hold it back much longer. Time to get in front of this.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

Remember that time in 2019 that Apple decided that apps for vapes/e-cigs could no longer exist?

I don't personally vape. I think that an app-controlled vape is a dumb idea. Even though the User and Developer want to do a transaction, new App Store rules decided they cannot. Having alternatives to the App Store removes the need for Apple to be the moral gatekeeper of app content.

Apple has shown they are willing & able to change the App Store rules however they like. Feel free to repeat the example with any kind of app that is objectionable in various countries, or might become objectionable in the future due to changing public opinion.

Whilst Apple has people in charge that do what is right - and not what makes them the most money (ie. gambling apps would probably make apple loads of money) - them I'm very happy for them to be deciding what goes on the App Store - and to not have other app stores on iOS. I prefer to have everything in one place.

My biggest concern is if apps that I have to have (ie. to work with a hardware accessory, or apps that my employer requires me to use etc) are only available through a third party App Store. If I can choose not to use third party app stores it's not so bad. It's like when you buy hardware on the Mac and you have to approve an untrusted, poor quality app to download to get the thing working - and you often don't know when you buy the hardware.

 

[jonplackett]

One entire Dr Evil? Man that’s gonna sting. I bet apple won’t do that again any time soon…

 

[5232152]

Apple store belongs to Apple and Google Play stop belongs to Google/Android Market. I hate when the government gets involved in tech companies' business models.

France does not run like the US. In France consumer rights, the better of the people, and anti-competitive laws are in place. A lot could be learned.

 

[Abazigal]

Chump change compared to what Epic was fined.

Fortnite maker Epic Games fined $520M after accusations it exposed young players to potential harm

Epic, which was valued at $32 billion in April, was also accused of tricking users into making unwanted purchases.

www.nbcnews.com

And to think people were actually cheering them on as a viable alternative to the iOS App Store.

 

[Kingcoherent]

$1M, what sort of pocket change is that?

French Dr Evil running the show.

Yeah, such a tiny fine. Nothing more than a light tap on the hand. I guess this may be a warning shot. Too small a fine to be worth appealing, but if they don't change bigger fines could follow.

As always there are competing regulators. Privacy is very important in France and may be more so than fair competition.

 

[Skeptical.me]

This is a juicer fine. 520 times bigger.

FTC fines Fortnite maker Epic Games $520M over children's privacy and item shop charges | TechCrunch

Epic Games will pay the FTC two record-breaking settlements over allegedly violating children's online privacy laws.

techcrunch.com

Their CEO wants to force metaverse garbage on kids and that stuff tracks users everywhere. It tracks everything about users.

But yeah sure say Apple did something bad. Microsoft and Sony stores on consoles are the same as the iOS App Store.

$520 million !! So they should if they’re abusing the privacy of children.

 

[return2sendai]

Apple store belongs to Apple and Google Play stop belongs to Google/Android Market. I hate when the government gets involved in tech companies' business models.

Nasty democracies! Zeig Hail technototalitarianism!

 

[I7guy]

That's fair and I certainly don't want to push this in a political direction. Philosophical yes, political no. A single gatekeeper can flip a switch. It might be a democracy forcing them to do it. It might be a totalitarian regime. If we allow the gatekeeper model to gain traction, to become the norm, we will soon see a world where only a handful of large corporations control whatever users can do with their devices, what information they see, etc. It's dangerous and it's antithetical to freedom. I like freedom.

I personally don't think Apple should have the right to tell a developer he or she can't develop a porn app (which is hilarious considering all of the grimy hookup apps they allow that have contributed massively to the rise in STDs, but I digress). Nor do I think Apple should have the right to tell me, as a customer, what kind of app I'm allowed to install on the device I paid for. For me it isn't about "you have a choice, go buy an Android", it's about Apple's behavior being immoral, anti-choice, anti-freedom. I don't think any of us should cheerlead such a business model and I'm glad to see some governments pushing back. I look forward to the inevitable end of the App Store monopoly.

I don't agree with your points. I believe it's a good thing that Apple controls the App Store. For all of the perceived flaws the ecosystem, imo, will be worse if unchecked.

As for convincing anyone of a different position, if you believe that's impossible, why even participate in a discussion?

Because it's my right to put my opinion out into the universe, if I so choose.

Just to cheerlead or live in a echo chamber?

Echo chambers exists on every side of an argument.

I'm open to being convinced that my position is wrong, but I don't see you articulating any counterpoints.

No you're not; be honest. You've detailed your points and your points are your subjective opinion. My counterpoint is the above. I believe it's a good thing for Apple to control, it's app store (which is it's intellectual property).

Of course if your point of view simply boils down to your wanting a gatekeeper who decides what you're allowed to do, see, etc., then yes, we probably won't convince each other of anything!

Yes, that is my point (just like a one-sided argument about a regime is your point) and imo, this is for the greater good.

 

[cmcbhi]

Why does Apple need French (or even EU) "developers" at all?
Just kicked all out, I say.

 

[Samplasion]

At the risk of being controversial I think Apple should control the App Store, and indeed I think Google should control Google Play.
These companies spend millions building the infrastructure to manage app delivery etc and trying to ensure apps are safe, why should they not be able to profit from them?

If Netflix or Amazon buy a film no one criticises them if they keep it as an exclusive.
And no one bit buys one brand of car then complains they can’t buy it with a different brand engine.
I know that’s not a perfect example but hopefully close enough.

No one forces me to buy Apple products, I choose to because I like their eco system and products.
Having made that decision I’m happy that I have to use Apple App Store etc.
Apple make their products, I have no issue with them profiting from them if people choose to use apps, films, music etc.

I am not saying fees and charges are right, but the environment is one I’m happy with.

I think Apple should control the Apple Store, too. I'd just like to be able to install apps from elsewhere as well.

 

[CyberDavis]

Why does Apple need French (or even EU) "developers" at all?
Just kicked all out, I say.

Don't forget many large multinationals that distribute apps for their products and systems are European.
For example Siemens, Bosch and ABB to name just a few are companies are ones that have apps distributed by their European HQ/division that many people and businesses use.

I hope we see a solution that keeps input on the app store global.

 

[Samplasion]

The Apple App Store is no longer free-upfront for developers. They need to purchase a "Business Membership" to distribute their apps. This membership could be $thousands per year.

Isn't this how it works already with the $99/year subscription to the true development experience™?

Apple Support team verifies if the app was purchased through the App Store or elsewhere and denies support to those that obtained their apps elsewhere.

Hardware warranty is not and cannot be impacted by software changes. Besides, who's stopping me from deleting the apps I sideloaded before sending the device off to Apple?

 

[Glideslope]

Well at least they lost the World Cup. Karma baby.

 

[BaldiMac]

Because it more that subsidises the App Store. 30% is just excessive profiteering, which is fine if you give people the choice, but they don't.

Ahh... I wasn't imagining things. It's the "you made a lot of money doing one thing, so you shouldn't be able to make money doing another thing" argument straight out of ECON 101 at fantasy school.

Does Microsoft suddenly lower their cut after they make a profit?

Epic Games has 60% higher profit margin (40%) than Apple (25%). Why should Epic get a larger cut?

But the main question for me is, why do you care if Microsoft or Epic get more money that is currently going to Apple? I've said from the beginning that this is really about billion dollar corporations wanting a piece of the money going to trillion dollar corporations. Consumers already have a huge selection and low prices.

 

[ksec]

Seems strange the pull out of EU or France comments are now completely gone.

 

[Ethosik]

No one had to have their browser on Windows but that didn't stop Microsoft getting taken to the antitrust cleaners and it won't help Apple either.

Read up on the case. It wasn’t just because they included a browser with windows. They bullied Netscape tried to get them to stop development and even tried to limit its distribution channels. Sun Java issues are part of Microsoft’s problem too.

 

[I7guy]

Seems strange the pull out of EU or France comments are now completely gone.

Apple should pull out of the EU and let the EU use android. Google is smiling.

 

[God of Biscuits]

Wow. If only these devs could choose to not work with Apple. I wonder how many guns Apple held to their heads to force them to develop for iOS?

Exactly. If devs chose not to work with Apple or Google play stores, they could always choose to develop for ....