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If they gain access to iCloud Some Services, and Messages, they could send malformed messages, spam, etc. AirDrop malware, etc. This opens the door to the unknown.
I’m definitely opting-out.
If not enough people opt into these other app stores, these will not be able to financially survive.
The main reason I would like to be able to side load is to install VirtualBox or UTM on my iPad for emergency use.
If you side load a program from a bad actor that is on you. No different than letting the wrong people into your house. Do it a couple of times and you'll learn. Do you want Apple to station employees at your house to decide who can come in?
 
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you seem to have missed the bit where you put in a side door that was not their before it was a solid wall, does not matter if its locked someone will get in and now you are screwed because some inept government officials were stupid
Emotions running high, but the facts are missing. How will they get in if you don't install bad software. Nothing has to work any different that it does now on macOS. On macOS you can even turn off all protection and "no" the sky hasn't started falling for the many years this has been available.
 
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err.. actually... it is illegal. Well it is in Europe, probably not in North Korea.

Anyone defending anti competitve behaviour (i.e. Apple in this example) needs to understand these laws are in place to protect consumers. Just because I really like Apple and their products does not mean I am ok with all their practices and blindly accept what they deem as an appropriate business model.
It’s not illegal in the US either. Anti competitive behavior is but not just being a monopoly.
 
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If you side load a program from a bad actor that is on you. No different than letting the wrong people into your house. Do it a couple of times and you'll learn. Do you want Apple to station employees at your house to decide who can come in?
Just like it happens on Mac or Windows… I would only side load apps I can see the source code and compile myself.
 
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What's the point of fining Apple $1 million dollars? That's like fining people $1 for speeding tickets.
Sure, it's like fining someone who earns $20,000 a year $50 for speeding and having the same fine for someone who earns $200,000. Quite pointless as an educational measure unless you want to educate people on class society.
 
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If you side load a program from a bad actor that is on you. No different than letting the wrong people into your house. [...] Do you want Apple to station employees at your house to decide who can come in?

If I hired an architect to design me a house that was convenient and reasonably secure, and hired a service to run background checks on all my guests, I wouldn't look kindly on the government telling me I needed to add a Eurodoor around the side. Being told "if you don't want to use it, just forget it's there" wouldn't make me feel any better about it.


Do it a couple of times and you'll learn.

We have, and I'd hoped we all learned but we don't seem to have. Government is bad at making technology decisions, especially when they draw "Barometer" readings from the general populace. I would have thought that "Boaty McBoatface" would have put an end to the "let's ask the public!" fad.
 
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If I hired an architect to design me a house that was convenient and reasonably secure, and hired a service to run background checks on all my guests, I wouldn't look kindly on the government telling me I needed to add a Eurodoor around the side. Being told "if you don't want to use it, just forget it's there" wouldn't make me feel any better about it.




We have, and I'd hoped we all learned but we don't seem to have. Government is bad at making technology decisions, especially when they draw "Barometer" readings from the general populace. I would have thought that "Boaty McBoatface" would have put an end to the "let's ask the public!" fad.
It’s already there. And have been for years. You just need to pay 99£ for it and circumvent apples AppStore

Facebook ignored it to collect data.

Games scam users.

Applications steel’s millions

And apple is unable to stop it without destroying the purpose of the service.
 
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If I hired an architect to design me a house that was convenient and reasonably secure, and hired a service to run background checks on all my guests, I wouldn't look kindly on the government telling me I needed to add a Eurodoor around the side. Being told "if you don't want to use it, just forget it's there" wouldn't make me feel any better about it.
Bad analogy since sideloading requires you to actively take part in the process. An app cannot sideload itself unless you allow side loading in the first place.

Sideloading is more like a secret entrance cleverly disguised to blend in with the surroundings ie. the Batcave. If you don’t open it, your guest will never know it’s there. Your guest cannot enter your hidden door unless you invite them in. Of course, it would be on you if you invite a criminal into you secret room.

Every superhero/superhero team worth their salt has a secret entrance the use when they’re off to save the world.
 
It’s already there. And have been for years. You just need to pay 99£ for it and circumvent apples AppStore

Facebook ignored it to collect data.

Games scam users.

Applications steel’s millions

And apple is unable to stop it without destroying the purpose of the service.
These are three years old and gives a good indication of where things could start to go downhill, when the App Store becomes a public utility.
 
These are three years old and gives a good indication of where things could start to go downhill, when the App Store becomes a public utility.
Well they are still active. Posted one where they stole 1 million from people last year. Scamers are abusing apple certificates.

And the AppStore won’t become a public utility. Installing applications without the need for the AppStore.

And the key word is “could”. I for one can’t wait for steam to start offering iOS games in their iOS app.
 
Well they are still active. Posted one where they stole 1 million from people last year. Scamers are abusing apple certificates.
That’s the throw the baby out with the bath water mentality, so prevalent on these forums.
And the AppStore won’t become a public utility. Installing applications without the need for the AppStore.
The App Store will be a public utility.
And the key word is “could”. I for one can’t wait for steam to start offering iOS games in their iOS app.
According to you the handwriting is already on the wall.
 
If I hired an architect to design me a house that was convenient and reasonably secure, and hired a service to run background checks on all my guests, I wouldn't look kindly on the government telling me I needed to add a Eurodoor around the side. Being told "if you don't want to use it, just forget it's there" wouldn't make me feel any better about it.
This really makes no sense. If you want to use the door analogy, then you have to admit that you have the key and the door is no different than any other door.

Apple can unlock anything, anytime, for any reason. What I want is to be able to install software that allows me, the owner of the phone, to monitor what Apple does. Of course, Apple does not want that and is spending tons of $$ to make people think that somehow me using my phone the way I want makes others unsafe. It is total BS.
 
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This really makes no sense. If you want to use the door analogy, then you have to admit that you have the key and the door is no different than any other door.

Apple can unlock anything, anytime, for any reason. What I want is to be able to install software that allows me, the owner of the phone, to monitor what Apple does. Of course, Apple does not want that and is spending tons of $$ to make people think that somehow me using my phone the way I want makes others unsafe. It is total BS.
Doesn't Android provide the functionality you want?
 
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Doesn't Android provide the functionality you want?
You seem to think it is all or nothing. Android has other problems. What we need is an Apple that meets all our needs not a walled up nanny environment that only benefits inexperienced, ignorant, children.
 
That’s the throw the baby out with the bath water mentality, so prevalent on these forums.
Well is it? Its a feature that exists and instead of just having companies with this ability users also get this ability without needing to install suspicious profiles.
The App Store will be a public utility.
How if it’s seperate and potentially can be left alone when alternative stores are allowed?
According to you the handwriting is already on the wall.
Well not yet. It did take a long time for steam for Mac to launch.
 
Well is it? Its a feature that exists and instead of just having companies with this ability users also get this ability without needing to install suspicious profiles.

How if it’s seperate and potentially can be left alone when alternative stores are allowed?

Well not yet. It did take a long time for steam for Mac to launch.
It's still "throw the baby out with the bath water" mentality. Because something doesn't work great, let's do something to make it even worse.
 
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So? Is that where we are going to next? Forcing product developers to create third-party APIs? Talk about throwing out free speech protections. Sheesh.

They have already created the APIs used by Music, and presumably documented them. What that guy was demanding would just be that the homeOS team provide the same information to third parties as they provide to the Music team.

Also, in the EU and Council of Europe free expression applies even less strongly to speech made by way of trade than it does in America — more than I’d like, but less than you seem to assume.

Without jailbreaking, any third party app stores are going to be restricted to using the frameworks that are available for every other app store, including Apple's own App Store.

Not so: they would be able to use private frameworks if they can figure them out, because the restrictions on using private APIs are enforced by the review process not by monkeying with dyld and the permission system to restrict which files or even which symbols objects in other directories can link to.

Apple’s 15-30% is quite normal for platform fees.

That’s part of what Italy and Australia are unhappy about: they’re all managing to make comparable commissions with substantial profits, when the inherent barrier to entry (little more than a web server and a payment processor) is very low.

People keep trotting out this argument like it means something. Why does the profit margin on the device matter to the discussion?

Because when Nintendo etc. won their cases and got permission to have mandatory commissions anti-trust law was firmly dominated by the friedmanite notion that only monetary harm to the consumer was important, and the console companies argued that the overall impact on gamers would be neutral because the fees were subsidising the consoles, the average gamer wouldn’t be harmed, and that many consumers would benefit.

Let enough tech companies leave and they'll feel it. No Microsoft. No Apple. No Google. Good luck selling phones or computers.

To leave in a way that puts them out of reach of EU courts the controlling group would have to have no assets within the EEA. That includes all their IP, and they have to transfer it to someone else in a way that leaves it with non-zero value or countries could compulsorily acquire it at fair market value. That’s why they don’t just take their ball and go home even from little countries that aren’t significant markets.

The French will always come up with ways to protect....the French, even if it means making up the rules as they go along.

Well, that’s what they’re there for. Don’t complain about foreign governments doing right by their people, complain that your government isn’t as interested or effective at serving you.

I would have thought that "Boaty McBoatface" would have put an end to the "let's ask the public!" fad.
“Xy McXface” is just a tedious bit of harmless fun, but it’s no worse than plenty of other silly names invented internally.
Doesn't Android provide the functionality you want?
In some ways, but since he knows Android is riddled with google’s spyware that doesn’t really help him assure himself that his phone isn’t spying on him.
 
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Well that's more of an objective statement as loading an app without verification can lead to all sorts of nasty things.
Saying the App Store has been used as a vehicle for malware is also an objective statement. And that includes verified apps.
Saying sideloading is harmful is like saying drinking water is harmful because you'll get poisoned if you drink too much.
 
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