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"Full" internet, really?
- Thread starter BobHail
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While I'm not real big on the whiny way you voiced your opinion, I have to say I agree to a certain extent. The ipad is limited in its internet experience. I love my ipad and appreciate it for what it is, but I also wish Apple put some more muscle into its browser and internet experienced.
I know the big one is lack of flash, and as soon as I say that I know there will be 100 loyalists jumping in telling me how they never ever have to use flash when browsing on their ipad and to shut my whiny mouth. But in reality I come across flash quite a bit in my daily internet experience, from watching a video from a gadget site, to youtube embedded videos, and a ton of other sources flash is quite prevalent at least in my internet experience and is missed on my ipad. This is something that is 100% fixable by Apple. It's not as hard on the device as they make it out to be as running Frash works quite well, although it doesn't work for a lot of content. Running Flash on Froyo on my Captivate it runs pretty damn nicely also, so it is very definitely not a limitation of the hardware.
The other thing I've been slowly realizing is the basic hardware of the ipad is a limiting factor. Pages load up pretty slowly and I think this is a function of the cpu, although I'm really not sure. But even worse is the RAM, if you load up a site with a lot of pictures, or if you have more than a couple of tabs open the browser just exits with no warning or anything, most likely due to low memory as has been discussed before.
These are really the limitations of the ipad, both are fixable by Apple although in part with a hardware refresh which is most likely to have more RAM.
Let me repeat, I love my ipad and use it for 99.9% of the things I used to use my Macbook Air for. It's strength is in its portability and its battery life. But just because I love and use my ipad doesn't mean I'm blind to the software and hardware limitations it has.
To sum it up:
Mobile iOS internet is far far away from the full internet experience. For some this might be ok. But don´t try to give lame excuses for it, if you´re not using sites like YouTube, Facebook and so on... It doesn´t change the facts no matter how hard you try to make excuses. It just makes you sound unintelligent. For the iPhone it´s ok, but for a tablet device it´s a disgrace and huge dealbreaker (for me).
Hopefully next time Apple can get it right! Then I´ll be interested in buying one and I´m sure that many others will be too.
And again, I´m just raising my voice of criticism to make this product better.
Mobile iOS internet is far far away from the full internet experience. For some this might be ok. But don´t try to give lame excuses for it, if you´re not using sites like YouTube, Facebook and so on... It doesn´t change the facts no matter how hard you try to make excuses. It just makes you sound unintelligent. For the iPhone it´s ok, but for a tablet device it´s a disgrace and huge dealbreaker (for me).
Hopefully next time Apple can get it right! Then I´ll be interested in buying one and I´m sure that many others will be too.
And again, I´m just raising my voice of criticism to make this product better.
It's not about flash, it just won't be used. No reason to talk about it any longer. Nothing wrong with that I guess. But with the websites I visit, outside of flash of course - the browsing experience is sweet. As good as a laptop or desktop. I get full site. Not sure what you're looking at.
Did I say that? No I did not.
So no offence, but I suggest you learn how to read or comprehend correctly what you read.
I disagree, it is partly because of flash. Flash is an important part of the internet, regardless of a small minority who choose to block and ignore it. Apple is really the only one boycotting it. I just don't get why we should completely omit the lack of Flash as a debate on the ipads browsing experience.
Go to any MySpace site. Can you play the songs in the player? Can you play the videos straight from the site? No you can´t.
Go to any Youtube channel site (not just some video). Can you play the videos straight from the channel site? Can you browse through all channel´s the videos nicely? Can you look at the comments same time you´re playing the video? No.
Same things and many other examples in Facebook and so on...
It´s a disgrace of a full internet experience. (Again for iPhone it´s fine, but not for a tablet device, which is almost the size of a laptop).
These are just few examples from many other annoyances.
There are actually issues with both, ie: there are hardware and software limitations on the browsing experience. They are not deal breakers at all for myself, I love my ipad, but they do exist.
Again, did I say that? No. I said that iPad has (not "is") an mobile OS (iOS) and mobile internet.
I suggest you stop drinking fluoride.
It's a dealbreaker for you; fine. I understand that the iPad isn't for everyone and, I do agree that it would be nice if Apple could add that extra 1% to make the browsing experience 'fuller'; but for a portable device, I'm very happy with the 99% experience of the internet it gives me.
I'll be honest though. I don't think Apple ever intended the product to showcase the 'full' internet. I don't think it's meant to be a laptop killer. It's meant to be a portable device that gives its users enough functionality to get them by when they don't want to use their laptop or they're on the go. For most people who want a tablet, I'd guess that what Apple have put into it is enough. I understand your criticisms but I can also see why Apple have taken the angle they have as well.
That's not really what I meant. I meant that we all know Apple wasn't going to go with flash and never will, in the foreseeable future.
I would not be criticising if Apple would be honest in the marketing and just admit that using iPad in sites like I´ve mentioned, the experience just plain sucks!
But because they have chose to lie and market it as the "best internet experience ever", which is total BS, I think i have the right raise my voice of criticism.
But because they have chose to lie and market it as the "best internet experience ever", which is total BS, I think i have the right raise my voice of criticism.
Sure but that doesn't me when you're surfing you're not getting a full browser. You just can't open as many tabs. But my laptop can't open as many as my desktop either.
Now you're sounding like a little baby.
Hmmm... "best internet experience ever"
Sounds like an internet without flash to me..
At least that's what firefox+flashblock taught me. Not much of a lie then.
Ah good 'ol BobHail.
iPad/iOS does not have have the 'full' internet. Why? I use facebook and some random sites, and they 'suck'.
If you would care to elaborate, or do you mind just leading on these hapless posters with your baseless comments?
iPad/iOS does not have have the 'full' internet. Why? I use facebook and some random sites, and they 'suck'.
If you would care to elaborate, or do you mind just leading on these hapless posters with your baseless comments?
Sorry Bob...The numbers DON'T Lie!!! The iPad had taken off as the single FASTEST adopted piece of electronic-ware in the HISTORY of...electronic-ware! So, apparently more folks want a limited internet experience, rather than a full one? Wrong...there is NO mobile device doing Flash well right now. All of them have issues...Maybe the new Windows phones will be able to get it right, but currently...when Flash is used, on a mobile device...there are problems. Tons of them...visit ANY of the mobile phone forums and you'll realize this truth. Not only usability and functionality problems, but incredibly fast battery drain, compared to site visits not utilizing Flash...and using the phone or device in all other ways intended to use said device.
It's not Apple that is behind the eight ball...it's the sites that have not bounced to HTML5 and other, more mobile friendly platforms. Guaranteed, Facebook is right on top of making their site a FULL experience on these devices. It'll take some time...but I do have to agree with Mitchrapp's sentiments...
"To the OP: no offense but MySpace, Facebook and YouTube is all your internet use? Man, you're missing out. There is so much more out there."
Maybe you're a young person...and that's cool...I enjoy FB for what it is, and communicate often with my company through the site. I make my mortgage doing audio and video production...and have for over 20 years. So I also use YouTube. I can't tell you how many extra contracts I signed this summer using youtube to share my videos, in person...with clients, on my iPad! Truly AWESOME!!!! I have nooooo idea what your issue is with youtube. It works great...both for enjoyment and as a professional tool.
MySpace? Isn't that site EOL'ed? There is a HUGE internet world out there, and I would say over 95% accessible (Probably significantly higher...) by the iPad, iPhone, et al. I'm actually relieved...as I've never really gone to the trouble to actually disable Flash on my computers...now that it's not there on my iPad, I don't miss the advertising banners and click throughs at all! It's actually a relief to me. I don't use FB as a chat platform, and I'm not at all interested in Mafia Wars, FarmVille, or whatever their goofy games that don't "play" on the iPad are...but if those are really dealbreakers for you, cool. But as I said earlier...most disagree with you. Just look at the numbers
BTW...all that said...I'm not as much a fan of Safari as I am Atomic Browser on my iPad/iPhone.
J
It's not Apple that is behind the eight ball...it's the sites that have not bounced to HTML5 and other, more mobile friendly platforms. Guaranteed, Facebook is right on top of making their site a FULL experience on these devices. It'll take some time...but I do have to agree with Mitchrapp's sentiments...
"To the OP: no offense but MySpace, Facebook and YouTube is all your internet use? Man, you're missing out. There is so much more out there."
Maybe you're a young person...and that's cool...I enjoy FB for what it is, and communicate often with my company through the site. I make my mortgage doing audio and video production...and have for over 20 years. So I also use YouTube. I can't tell you how many extra contracts I signed this summer using youtube to share my videos, in person...with clients, on my iPad! Truly AWESOME!!!! I have nooooo idea what your issue is with youtube. It works great...both for enjoyment and as a professional tool.
MySpace? Isn't that site EOL'ed?
There is a HUGE internet world out there, and I would say over 95% accessible (Probably significantly higher...) by the iPad, iPhone, et al. I'm actually relieved...as I've never really gone to the trouble to actually disable Flash on my computers...now that it's not there on my iPad, I don't miss the advertising banners and click throughs at all! It's actually a relief to me. I don't use FB as a chat platform, and I'm not at all interested in Mafia Wars, FarmVille, or whatever their goofy games that don't "play" on the iPad are...but if those are really dealbreakers for you, cool. But as I said earlier...most disagree with you. Just look at the numbersBTW...all that said...I'm not as much a fan of Safari as I am Atomic Browser on my iPad/iPhone.
J
I totally agree that the iPad does not deliver the full internet experience. It does not "just work".
As I've mentioned here before, I gave one of the first iPads to my 85 year old mother, thinking it'd make a great first device. Two things have been stumbling blocks: first, the continued use of tiny unlabelled icons even with the larger screen, and second, the lack of Flash.
I'm sorely tempted to get her an Android tablet instead.
Since getting full Flash on the Incredible, a whole new world has opened up to my mobile browsing. From restaurant menus, to embedded news videos, to native Flickr slideshows, to automobile dealer sites, to just plain being able to go to virtually any site, it's liberating.
Flash vs HTML5:
As others have mentioned, mobile Flash is now pretty quick and always solid, at least for me.
I also did a pretty long comparison of Flash and HTML5 game sites. That was an eye-opener. Both of course suffer from the exact same mouse-to-touchscreen issues. They seem to have the same percentage of programmers who depend on mouseover etc. Both can be painfully slow at times (especially HTML5). Both often need to be rewritten for touch.
So Flash and HTML5 were roughly equivalent except for not being able to hold visual buttons on HTML5 games. Why? Because in mobile browsers that triggers the equivalent of a mouse right-click, and you get an annoying "save image?" etc prompt instead of an action. Ooops.
As I've mentioned here before, I gave one of the first iPads to my 85 year old mother, thinking it'd make a great first device. Two things have been stumbling blocks: first, the continued use of tiny unlabelled icons even with the larger screen, and second, the lack of Flash.
I'm sorely tempted to get her an Android tablet instead.
Since getting full Flash on the Incredible, a whole new world has opened up to my mobile browsing. From restaurant menus, to embedded news videos, to native Flickr slideshows, to automobile dealer sites, to just plain being able to go to virtually any site, it's liberating.
Flash vs HTML5:
As others have mentioned, mobile Flash is now pretty quick and always solid, at least for me.
I also did a pretty long comparison of Flash and HTML5 game sites. That was an eye-opener. Both of course suffer from the exact same mouse-to-touchscreen issues. They seem to have the same percentage of programmers who depend on mouseover etc. Both can be painfully slow at times (especially HTML5). Both often need to be rewritten for touch.
So Flash and HTML5 were roughly equivalent except for not being able to hold visual buttons on HTML5 games. Why? Because in mobile browsers that triggers the equivalent of a mouse right-click, and you get an annoying "save image?" etc prompt instead of an action. Ooops.
Oh really, how about the new MBA? Full internet experience right there in a 11.6 inch form.
Actually no, you're insulting people who don't agree with your opinion when you present it as fact. There's a subtle difference. That's at least twice now you've attacked people who disagree with you rather than their position on the matter. Which is a shame as there's a decent discussion to be had here but you don't seem to be interested in having it. Oh well.
But you're wrong. You seem to be ignoring virtually every reply that has said that Youtube and Facebook work just FINE on the Ipad. I don't know about Myspace, I can't remember the last time I actually used myspace - long time ago. Maybe you are focused solely on Flash-based websites, I don't know.
I know that in my Ipad usage, which is a couple hours a day since launch day in March, I run into an instance or two where something doesn't work right, which is likely a Flash component. If I really, really want to check it out, I just email the link to myself and see it on my Macbook. Otherwise, I don't even get upset. It's no big deal. It's so rare that I barely even care about it. And, get this, I'm a web designer and deal with Flash every day. I can tell you that the majority of Flash out there that we encounter is ADS. I don't miss 'em.
I think, BobHail, you are in the minority. You use the internet in such a way that Flash is a majority of what you encounter. That's fine. I don't get it, and I'd find that mighty annoying, but that's fine. That means the Ipad is not for you. Move along. And don't attack everyone else who loves their Ipads because they don't agree with your minority viewpoint that Flash needs to be represented on the Ipad. It's not cool or fair.
Tiny, unlabeled icons?
Where?
There are tiny unlabeled icons everywhere. Easy examples: Mail. Safari.
Especially with older eyes, it's hard for newbies to tell what to click to compose a new mail. The icon is hardly intuitive. The only one that seems obvious is the garbage can, but to some people I've trained on iOS devices, it looks like a mystery trapezoid with lines (go figure - so much for worldwide symbols).
I suspect everyone has to experiment the first time to figure out what icon does what.
Then there's the hidden app menus, like the good old little "i" in a circle people use for "more options". Or they stick some of them off in the global Settings menu. Biggest mistake Apple made, was providing two places for app settings. Individual app settings should be in each app.
Contrast this to other systems where the menu is always available via a menu button, and with labels for the menu icons.
Can you imagine a Mac laptop with nothing but icons for all pulldown menus?
Apple could make the iPad friendlier to new users by making use of all the extra display space for at least some optional labels.
Sorry Bob...The numbers DON'T Lie!!! The iPad had taken off as the single FASTEST adopted piece of electronic-ware in the HISTORY of...electronic-ware! So, apparently more folks want a limited internet experience, rather than a full one? Wrong...there is NO mobile device doing Flash well right now. All of them have issues...Maybe the new Windows phones will be able to get it right, but currently...when Flash is used, on a mobile device...there are problems. Tons of them...visit ANY of the mobile phone forums and you'll realize this truth. Not only usability and functionality problems, but incredibly fast battery drain, compared to site visits not utilizing Flash...and using the phone or device in all other ways intended to use said device.
It's not Apple that is behind the eight ball...it's the sites that have not bounced to HTML5 and other, more mobile friendly platforms. Guaranteed, Facebook is right on top of making their site a FULL experience on these devices. It'll take some time...but I do have to agree with Mitchrapp's sentiments...
"To the OP: no offense but MySpace, Facebook and YouTube is all your internet use? Man, you're missing out. There is so much more out there."
Maybe you're a young person...and that's cool...I enjoy FB for what it is, and communicate often with my company through the site. I make my mortgage doing audio and video production...and have for over 20 years. So I also use YouTube. I can't tell you how many extra contracts I signed this summer using youtube to share my videos, in person...with clients, on my iPad! Truly AWESOME!!!! I have nooooo idea what your issue is with youtube. It works great...both for enjoyment and as a professional tool.
MySpace? Isn't that site EOL'ed?
BTW...all that said...I'm not as much a fan of Safari as I am Atomic Browser on my iPad/iPhone.
J
The numbers don't lie because the ipad is an awesome device, BUT the truth of the matter is that the internet experience *can* be improved, I don't know why people are having such a hard time with this. It's not a personal attack on you, it's just the simple facts. Maybe the ipads internet experience works for most users, and from a business standpoint then Apple certainly is smart in not wasting money in improving it, but it still *can* be improved.
As for Flash, as I've mentioned before it works pretty damn perfectly on my Captivate with Froyo, at least videos do. I think the whole "Flash will ruin my phone" crap is just overblown hype.
I also kind of find it amusing that you feel the OP shouldn't complain because he can't use sites like FB and Myspace because you think they are outdated, millions of users use these, I don't think they are outdated at all and it's valid if you can't use them the same as you can on a full PC/laptop simply because of software shortcomings. Same for youtube, you know there is a TON of embedded youtube in Flash which is unviewable on the ipad, there is no alternative and you miss out on that content.
It's all good and I'm just playing devil's advocate here, so I hope no one gets their panties in a bunch (as we see so often on here), and I think the ipad's internet experience is mostly all there. But as I mentioned before I'd love Apple to take that extra couple of steps and really solidify their internet experience. I just don't get why so many of you argue that it's "perfect" when it's not like a battle you versus them, it's just real world users expressing some issues they would like Apple to resolve.
these 3 sites are the reason I haven't bought an ipad:
ITV player
4oD
Demand Five
you americans won't know these sites as they are only available in the UK, but I guarantee that every UK person on these forums will agree that it is a crying shame that these sites cannot be viewed on the iPad because they all use flash.
It doesn't matter which way you cut it some sites only use flash (for major features) and thoes sites cannot be viewed fully on the ipad, this is not a problem on a phone but on a device designed for the living room as a perfect device to 'check out extra coverage on the tv channels website' it fails
ITV player
4oD
Demand Five
you americans won't know these sites as they are only available in the UK, but I guarantee that every UK person on these forums will agree that it is a crying shame that these sites cannot be viewed on the iPad because they all use flash.
It doesn't matter which way you cut it some sites only use flash (for major features) and thoes sites cannot be viewed fully on the ipad, this is not a problem on a phone but on a device designed for the living room as a perfect device to 'check out extra coverage on the tv channels website' it fails