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"Full" internet, really?
- Thread starter BobHail
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I agree with you on a technical basis, but the vast majority of iPad users don't know or don't care about the technical aspects, they just want it to work. The "technical" definition of the full Internet is a useless definition when what you want to describe is what the typical user sees as the full Internet experience.
Actually macrumors had a couple of articles right on their front page which had flash video and were unviewable on my iPad. Besides being unacceptable for an apple blog site, it just didn't work for my "full" Internet experience. As for faux news well I won't get political and get the thread closed, but I've got more sense than to watch that utterly useless junk. Browser refresh? My browser crashes a lot if the memory gets eaten up, 3 or more tabs or even a single page with intensive video or a lot of pictures. There's also the slow rendering of a web page as you scroll down.
Unlike the op, who I'd like to distance myself from, I'm trying to objectively point out the shortcomings and am trying not to necessarily be complaining. I really do absolutely love my iPad and am 90% happy with the Internet experience.
+1. Well said. If I can view it on my desktop browser (which is what I call "full") and then turn around and cant view it on my iPad, then I have a "less than full" experience.
Are you just trolling? Tell us what the problems you're having are and maybe we can help
Really? Can you write a Flash Player, a Java Runtime Environment and a Silverlight Player for the iPad? I thought not.
No matter how much Steve Jobs is using his reality distortion field to brainwash people, the simple fact remains that Flash is everywhere on the Internet (and NOT just in annoying ad banners!) and that there are still plenty of Java applets running on several eCommerce or Internet banking websites or corporate Intranets. Heck, even the video surveillance server in my company uses a Java applet.
Apple's iOS devices provide only a crippled Internet experience, and that's already the end of the story. Safari is the one app that I use the least on my iPhone, and its poor performance was another reason why I returned my iPad to Apple. In my experience, the iPad sucks as a mobile Internet device because of its castrated web browser, it sucks as an ebook reader because of its computer-style display (try an eInk display for comparison and you won't be reading any books on an iPad anymore) and it also is a complete failure as a movie player -- not ONE of the movies I threw at it played properly, the iPad was dropping frames like snowflakes. It also sucks for writing/typing. Probably the only things that it's okay for are as a gaming platform and maybe a comic book reader.
Sounds like the iPad got you on a complete downer! Sorry for you, hope you manage to find something that can replace it in the near future. That is if you think it needs replaced - sounds like just an expensive toy for you.
Completely different experience for me (and probably 99% of other iPad purchasers)...
I love the browser (use Atomic myself). No Flash is something that has to be worked around, but it doesn't cripple my web surfing experience as you state. It doesn't hinder the fact I can just pick up my iPad, instant on and access information all within seconds.
I do a lot of travelling on train and plane. Whereas I'd very rarely go to the trouble of lugging a laptop with me, my iPad never leaves my side. For example, I've been trying out The Times app (UK newspaper) for the last couple of weeks and it is a great and new experience (even if I don't always agree with the editorial!). The colour photography (most images go full screen when touched) demolishes anything an e-reader could provide. Text is very readable, and that is coming from someone who also owns an iPhone 4.
As for movies, I used AirVideo to convert movies for use on the iPad. You can view the movies over the air in realtime or upload them through iTunes for viewing when a network is not available. Never had a problem with dropping frames, except when the source video was already corrupted.
I think everyone knows you don't like the iPad (you've told us enough times!), but just because it didn't work for you doesn't automatically mean it doesn't work for other people: They can enjoy the iPad for what it is without it automatically meaning they've been brainwashed.
No java isn't an issue for me at all (I can't think of a single site I've been to that uses Java). No Flash is an occasional annoyance that's more than liveable with, as is no Silverlight. As I've already said, it may be an issue for some people and if it is, then the iPad isn't for them.
You may think the lack of these on the iPad makes it castrated, whereas I think it just means a large subset of the Internet is available to me, and the bits that aren't don't really impact my daily life.
As far as your other complaints are concerned, I agree that eInk is a vastly superior display technology for reading novels (which is why I'll be shortly getting a Kindle), but I think the iPad is brilliant for reading newspapers and text books with diagrams, etc and better than the Kindle at that task (my wife has a Kindle so I've spent a fair bit of time with one)
I've had no problems at all with Movies, either stored locally or streamed from my iTunes library
I think the iPad is brilliant for typing on: I can touch type and find my speed on the iPad about 80% of my normal speed in portrait mode and 90% in landscape
I've never played a game on the iPad nor read a comic book so I can't comment on those aspects of it.
Ultimately, just because the iPad doesn't fit what you want from a device doesn't make it suck - for some people (like me), it is a brilliant device and one that gets used all the time. Personally, I wouldn't be without it now
"Oh no, another iPad user."
Oh yes Bob, another happy ipad user.
""Poser", "reasonable"... hmm somehow those two words don´t fit into the same sentence, or were you talking about yourself?"
my estimation of your age and mentality went from teen to preteen
"You said that already multiple times, getting kinda old huh? Wasn´t even funny in the first time. How old (young) were you again?"
Well, actually it is humorous, but then again, I wouldn't expect a preteen to understand such things. The truth of the matter is some of us like the ipad, and use it as much as we care too. You don't Bob, thats fine. But lets not belabor the points you made. You can't watch flash or use a java applet. Oh my G-d. The sky is falling. You sound like Henny Penny. If you don't like the ipad experience don't use it.
"No I´m criticising. You on the other hand are complaining and whining about criticism."
No, Bob, your whining, or do they call that trolling. Criticism is supposed to be constructive. Criticizing would have stopped after the first hundred threads on this subject, after the ipad came out. Actually I am criticizing you for whining about something that we have all known from the start was not going to be part of the ipad experience, and has been discussed, debated , and regurgitated, and now being regurgitated again. Your problem is that you are unwilling to concede that people can be happy with the ipad and the internet experience it gives ( this is the part that you have been and are continuing to be unreasonable about ). Between the Aps, and the Ipad software I have a great experience on the ipad. Several Million people across the world agree with me. Some people around the world even agree with you. Which is why the ipad is not owned by, nor is required to be owned by, every human on the planet.
Oh yes Bob, another happy ipad user.
""Poser", "reasonable"... hmm somehow those two words don´t fit into the same sentence, or were you talking about yourself?"
my estimation of your age and mentality went from teen to preteen
"You said that already multiple times, getting kinda old huh? Wasn´t even funny in the first time. How old (young) were you again?"
Well, actually it is humorous, but then again, I wouldn't expect a preteen to understand such things. The truth of the matter is some of us like the ipad, and use it as much as we care too. You don't Bob, thats fine. But lets not belabor the points you made. You can't watch flash or use a java applet. Oh my G-d. The sky is falling. You sound like Henny Penny. If you don't like the ipad experience don't use it.
"No I´m criticising. You on the other hand are complaining and whining about criticism."
No, Bob, your whining, or do they call that trolling. Criticism is supposed to be constructive. Criticizing would have stopped after the first hundred threads on this subject, after the ipad came out. Actually I am criticizing you for whining about something that we have all known from the start was not going to be part of the ipad experience, and has been discussed, debated , and regurgitated, and now being regurgitated again. Your problem is that you are unwilling to concede that people can be happy with the ipad and the internet experience it gives ( this is the part that you have been and are continuing to be unreasonable about ). Between the Aps, and the Ipad software I have a great experience on the ipad. Several Million people across the world agree with me. Some people around the world even agree with you. Which is why the ipad is not owned by, nor is required to be owned by, every human on the planet.
Well I may have to agree with Bob somewhat. I finally found a need for Flash that I can't seem to work around. I am at Starbucks and trying to access their new digital network content. Unfortunately it seems to require Flash. Bummer.
Wouldn't that be on Starbucks' intranet, not the Internet? If so, falls outside Bob's zone of attack.
Wow!
Can't believe this thread has so many responses now. And without reading them all I bet it is the same two sides of the same argument we have seen since the iPad's beginning.
Must say though that the OP does seem to be overly angry, selfrighteous and abusive. . . . . Will be avoiding threads by 'bobhail' in the future.
Can't believe this thread has so many responses now. And without reading them all I bet it is the same two sides of the same argument we have seen since the iPad's beginning.
Must say though that the OP does seem to be overly angry, selfrighteous and abusive. . . . . Will be avoiding threads by 'bobhail' in the future.
The serial whining troll returns. My God, has it been a day or two without a complaining rant about how bad the iPad is? Well, we can see what happens on Thursday. Might just be easier to cut and paste from now on considering we already know the outcome.
I dunno, I find them entertaining in a perverse way.
A bit like taking pleasure in watching a curmudgeonly old man slowly climb a staircase until he gets near the top when a boxing gloves springs out and knocks him back to the bottom. He then starts his journey again with the same result. Again and again. And again.
Sort of like this?
Note how Winni shows up on cue to add his repetitive screed as well.
Attachments
If you are taking the position of bashing a company with accusations of lies based on the content of their product descriptions, it is necessary to understand what that term means. Making up your own definition for what you would like it mean isn't helpful and makes your argument look weaker.
(BTW - I'm not pointing at you, and suggest re-reading the first post)
A web sites compatibility may not meet your needs, but it's important to understand why and who is in the best position to address it. I suggest the site owner is the best person. They need to take the responsibility for their choice in requiring a plug in.
The best way to reduce fragmentation of website compatibility, today and in the future, is to embrace the standards. I do understand that Flash is still useful as it is by far the most common browser plug in installed on desktop machines. There are situation where Flash is the only reasonable choice (video encryption, interactive games etc) but the majority of the complaints on this thread are for basic video. On the bright side (for iDevice users) since the iPad's release, Flash has become far less important as sites have been updated over the last few months. The iPad experience will get continuously better as this trend continues.
On a side note I feel that internet standards need to be open and the uptake of Flash over the last few years has been dangerous. Adobe has become too powerful in an otherwise diverse browser ecosystem. Don't forget that this debate ultimately started because Adobe was the sole provider of Flash and had demonstrated that they were unable/unwilling to deliver a quality OS X product on par with windows. Apple was being backed into a wall and had little choice but to try and accelerate the uptake of HTML5 for the sake of there desktop and mobile devices. Apple has essentially been the only one willing to take a stand and has been remarkably successful in a such a short time.
I'll assume your first paragraph was directed at the OP and not myself, as I have attempted to be respectful and offer constructive criticism.
About a websites compatibility, of course I understand standards and the need to adhere to them. But at the same time you have to gauge your users needs, remember Apple is built on the "user experience". So the fact that flash isn't technically in the definition of the "full" Internet, nonetheless it is an important part of varying degrees to the typical user. The politics between companies is just that, politics which the average user could care less about. I think the question users ask themselves is why can they view flash content on every other device except apple devices, and that can and probably does filter down to what device a consumer may or may not purchase.
In the end it boils down to customer perception, and Apple is certainly no stranger to successfully marketing an inferior product to victory, in fact i'd say that's what the majority of their business focuses on to their credit IMO. But you cannot discount that flash is very prevalent, consumers want it and wonder why they can't get it when virtually all other devices can or soon will, and that they really don't care or don't know about the technicalities and politicsnbehind those decisions.
dude, you are saying he is wrong because it works " just fine" for you? is this whole topic about "you"? nay.
For those of you who are saying the ipad is a huge success so it must be right simply because they have sold an ish load of them are missing the point. The mobile safari is limiting the experience enough to drive us mad. what i would like to see is a toggle to either allow "mobile computing" or "desktop computing"...let see what one you all keep it on then.
Would be awesome to have the option like Atomic has. where you can pick the type of browser youre using. just my .02
Yes, that was directed at some of the more angry posters
I don't think users care about Flash, they just care about the out their sites to work. I feel that is the domain of the site owner, not Apple.
Capitulating to Adobe and having them continue to provide poor code and consequently a potential advantage to the competition isn't much of an option. The fact that that is even a question underscores the problem with Flash. It takes control away from the device, OS and browser manufactures and rests it with Adobe. Nobody likes that arrangement, but today Apple's mobile position is a bigger threat to Google and MS than Adobe.
Many user don't seem to care about what is happening so long as their videos play. Frankly I worry about the current bifurcation of the internet as standards vs proprietary. I don't want an internet controlled be Adobe or any other single company. It's unfortunate that the end user is inconvenienced by this, but I feel it is better to have this fight now, on a new platform (iPad) then to deal with the fallout down the road.
Yes, that was directed at some of the more angry posters
Capitulating to Adobe and having them continue to provide poor code and consequently a potential advantage to the competition isn't much of an option. The fact that that is even a question underscores the problem with Flash. It takes control away from the device, OS and browser manufactures and rests it with Adobe. Nobody likes that arrangement, but today Apple's mobile position is a bigger threat to Google and MS than Adobe.
Many user don't seem to care about what is happening so long as their videos play. Frankly I worried about the current bifurcation of the internet as standards vs proprietary. I don't want an internet controlled be Adobe or any other single company. It's unfortunate that the end user is inconvenienced by this, but I feel it is better to have this fight now, on a new platform (iPad) then to deal with the fallout down the road.
You bring up great points, but I'll bet Apples stand is a losing one seeing how no one else is siding with them in their battle against flash. The only loser in this war is the consumer. The fallout of this situation is now, and even if magically flash became obsolete it wouldn't be for years and do nothing at all for iPad 1.0 users, and probably nothing for iPad 2.0 users.
I think, again, that each and every person who uses the iPad uses it for different reasons. Everybody has a different opinion and different experiences. For instance, I have watched more movies than I can count (using both VLC and the native movie app) and have never had the experience that you describe above. I was actually impressed by the video quality (of both the mp4 and the avi). Does that mean you are wrong? No, it just means your experience isn't as good as mine.
As far as an e-reader, I have read more than 20 books on my iPad, and again, it doesn't bother me at all. That may be because I've read about 10 times that on my phone, and it hasn't bothered me a bit. Maybe my eyes are better? Who knows...again just means we've had different experiences. Although, my mother purchased a nook, and upgraded to the iPad because she wanted to do some light internet (e-mail, facebook...) as well. She hasn't picked up the nook since.
What's bothersome about these discussions is that people who disagree just tend to think that those who say they have no problems with it are brainless fanboys (or fangirls in my case), and it just isn't true. I don't have money to throw around, and if I certainly didn't think it was worth what I paid for it, I would most definitely take it back...Apple lover or not. Steve Jobs isn't paying my bills.
Take 10 users, or 100, and they will all relay different experiences. Some good, some bad. Doesn't mean 1/10 is right. It just means we are all looking for different things out of it.
The web masters are siding with them. Over the last 6 months the impact of not having Flash has lessened. Many sites have been reworked to be at least optionally HTML5 compatible. This is a measurable win for Apple. it's not perfect, but it's marching forward at a significant pace.
Again, Flash doesn't need to become obsolete. I acknowledge that there are many situation where it is still the best choice (games and encrypted video) it just needs to be optional in cases where an open standard would also work.
Another year or two will prove interesting on the whole Flash thing.
It looks, note, I'm only saying it looks as it's a guess right now, that most of the other tablets coming out are going to run Flash to some degree.
High end Android Phones are running flash very well.
If, and I will admit, it is an if, we find ourselves in a marketplace where every other tablet out there (and after another 1 or two years we could be swamped by tablets) are running Flash fine, and all Android phones are running Flash fine, and (as we of course know already all PC's will still be running Flash fine) is Apple going to sit alone on it's only little island at that time and still say we won't support it.
Perhaps some web sites and developers and not jumping and are waiting to see what's going to happen.
If everything else, apart from Apple mobile devices runs Flash then they may feel it's not worth changing over.
Apple have themselves made flash a negative point for themselves and something the opposition will use to beat them will.
Everyone else will be able to say things along the lines of, "We support the Full Internet, unlike Apple where you need 3rd part apps to make things work"
Be interesting to see how the greater public (not just forum followers) react to things like this over the next year or two.
It looks, note, I'm only saying it looks as it's a guess right now, that most of the other tablets coming out are going to run Flash to some degree.
High end Android Phones are running flash very well.
If, and I will admit, it is an if, we find ourselves in a marketplace where every other tablet out there (and after another 1 or two years we could be swamped by tablets) are running Flash fine, and all Android phones are running Flash fine, and (as we of course know already all PC's will still be running Flash fine) is Apple going to sit alone on it's only little island at that time and still say we won't support it.
Perhaps some web sites and developers and not jumping and are waiting to see what's going to happen.
If everything else, apart from Apple mobile devices runs Flash then they may feel it's not worth changing over.
Apple have themselves made flash a negative point for themselves and something the opposition will use to beat them will.
Everyone else will be able to say things along the lines of, "We support the Full Internet, unlike Apple where you need 3rd part apps to make things work"
Be interesting to see how the greater public (not just forum followers) react to things like this over the next year or two.
did you miss the point? no it's not a good thing they share the same IOS and web browser.
The iPad should allow you to view safari as you would on a macbook!