Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?

[iBorg20181]

i know how to solve your uninformed buyer question/switcher. It's called Mac Os X. Thats why people buy apple computers, but even the processor doesn't distinguish a pc from a mac. would you rather have viruses and an incremental 10% speed increase, not to mention most of the processors out there are on the lower end like 2.0ghz. so most of us want 2.33ghz, they're scarce, sources say. If you need a computer now and your the consumer and you analyze your situation and you want to switch where do you go. different named processor + windows or core duo + mac os x.

easy for me to answer. I'd choose mac os x over any core 2 duo pc.

But why i'm waiting is because i don't need it right now.

That said, if you need it now, get a mac, not a pc.

You're "preaching to the choir," the 4% that use Macs!

My comments were about selling to "switchers," the other 96% that Apple is trying to sell to. The ones watching the TV ads about "C2D - the fastest processor on the planet!"

iBorg

 

[iBorg20181]

Well...I'd choose OS X, and you'd choose OS X, but I'm not sure what a switcher would do. You have to have used OS X to love it. Switchers...they're used to Windows . Don't know if they'd be enlightened enough to realize the difference.

Well said, shadowlander!

iBorg

 

[ct-scan]

Hey y'all, first time poster, long time lurker.

I've been pondering my upgrade options for whenever the mMPB's get updated, and I was hoping for some advice. Assuming Apple sticks with the same memory set up, would it be better to upgrade through them to 2GB; buy the machine stock, buy a matched 2x1GB, and sell the one that comes with the machine, or just buy a single 1GB?

Btw, thanks for all the other great news and insight.

Don't up the RAM from Apple.
Crucial is a good brand, and they are about half as expensive.
Just play around with your options, and see where you'd save the most $$$.

Also, side note...I believe you should keep your RAM.
One thing when sending an Apple back to AppleCare, is that the computer is under warranty with the original RAM and someone might give you a hard time.

I had to return a PB w/ a bad RAM slot, and they made sure I was using Apple RAM.

Just a thought...

 

[iBorg20181]

I'd wager that the "ignorant" buyer who is even considering a Mac doesn't view it as an equal trade off versus a PC, therefore giving the processor the deciding edge in their decision. Those same people are thinking about viruses, software compatibility, operating system, etc. Not to mention price.

Yes - and Apple is still charging top dollar for "old" Core Duo processor units, while that same price gets you C2D from the competition. "Mac FanBoys" (lol - you and me and most others on this forum!) will choose Mac OSX, but "switchers" need all the reasons possible to make the switch, replace expensive software, etc.

But consider, if you're a sales person, working on commission, which would you rather sell: an Apple or a cheaper, C2D-sporting HP?

Most salesmen/women in places that sell both, e.g. CompUSA, prefer PCs and push customers toward those. I've seen it over and over again. Unless they get an Apple rep, which is not the usual scenario. (Or unless I'm nearby, in which case I "butt in" and try to educate them - really pi$$es the salesman off!)

Put simply, the decision to buy a Mac over a PC isn't just about the processor.

No, but given the choice between "old" and "new," for the same price, buyers are going to pick C2D. And Apple isn't helping their cause in delaying C2D, while still charging top prices that they charged for this technology half a year ago or more. If they can't deliver on "the fastest processor on the planet," then they should at least pass on the cost savings they're getting from the drop in Yonah processor prices for MBs and MBPs.



iBorg

 

[AppliedVisual]

Hey y'all, first time poster, long time lurker.

I've been pondering my upgrade options for whenever the mMPB's get updated, and I was hoping for some advice. Assuming Apple sticks with the same memory set up, would it be better to upgrade through them to 2GB; buy the machine stock, buy a matched 2x1GB, and sell the one that comes with the machine, or just buy a single 1GB?

Btw, thanks for all the other great news and insight.

Definitely buy the RAM from somewhere else and install it yourself. It's very simple and takes a matter of a few minutes. www.newegg.com has some of the best prices/service around. Look under notebook memory - you want 200 pin DDR2 SODIMM 667MHz PC-5300 modules. I would actually recommend the PC-5400 modules even though they're a bit higher spec that the system won't use. They don't cost anymore and have passed a bit more rigorous evaluation to get teh 5400 label. I recommend the OCZ 1GB modules at $105.99 each today.

As for hard drive, this depends on how you feel about taking your MBP almost completely apart. And in most situations, I would not recommend doing so, it's not worth saving the extra $75 to do this if you don't have enough experience with such things. First of all, it will take you a while to look it up online, watch the video clips and see pictures of it being done (highly recommended) and then the time to do it.

A refurbished MBP is a great deal right now, but with the better prices also come the smaller hard drives and you may still end up wanting to swap it out. After all, the 120GB is about $108 these days and 160GB drives are < $180. So just be sensible about your experience with disassembling notebook computers. A hard drive swap on the MBP is not recommended for newbies or the weak of heart. But if your comfortable with small electronics and/or building/repairing computers, it's not too bad if you follow the tutorials available and take your time.

 

[iBorg20181]

Are the current prices a "decent deal" for what's inside?

In a word, no.

Apple's profit margins on MBs and MBPs today are higher than they were almost 1/2 year ago, since Intel charges less for CoreDuo now. Yet Apple still charges top dollar. A price drop is warranted, although I'd probably still hold out for C2D. Paying top-shelf price for CoreDuo in a "Pro" notebook is an insult.

But, when they're the only game in town ... what other choice do we have? Either pay an inflated prices for "yesterday's technology," or wait. I'm choosing the latter.

Potential switchers have a 3rd choice: buy a PC, with "the fastest process on the planet, Core2Duo!"



iBorg

 

[maverick808]

Imagine Sony are selling the very latest technology in an excellent laptop for $2000. Now, imagine HP are selling a well designed laptop but the technology in it is 9 months old and yet the laptop with this old technology costs $1000 more. Which one would you pick?

This is the deal potential switchers see - they don't care much about OS X, as they have no experience with it. Based on hardware alone, the MBP is an AWFUL deal today.

Furthermore, I don't see the argument "but OS X is worth the extra" as valid. Did OS X suddenly jump up in price from $129 to $1129 in the last 9 months? No? Do you expect the MBP to jump in price by $1000 when a new version with the latest technology is available? No, you expect it to be the same price. I mean really, do people honestly think the MBP is currently worth the price, when tomorrow or next week they expect a brand new MBP with the latest technology to be released yet cost exactly the same????

Either an MBP with C2D, bigger hard-drive, etc is worth $2,499 or the current MBP with only CD is worth $2,499. You can't have it both ways. If you think the current MBP is a "fantastic deal" then surely you must think that if Apple release a new Merom MBP tomorrow then the price of MBPs will go up by $500 or more.

 

[iBorg20181]

Imagine Sony are selling the very latest technology in an excellent laptop for $2000. Now, imagine HP are selling a well designed laptop but the technology in it is 9 months old and yet the laptop with this old technology costs $1000 more. Which one would you pick?

This is the deal potential switchers see - they don't care much about OS X, as they have no experience with it. Based on hardware alone, the MBP is an AWFUL deal today.

Furthermore, I don't see the argument "but OS X is worth the extra" as valid. Did OS X suddenly jump up in price from $129 to $1129 in the last 9 months? No? Do you expect the MBP to jump in price by $1000 when a new version with the latest technology is available? No, you expect it to be the same price. I mean really, do people honestly think the MBP is currently worth the price, when tomorrow or next week they expect a brand new MBP with the latest technology to be released yet cost exactly the same????

Either an MBP with C2D, bigger hard-drive, etc is worth $2,499 or the current MBP with only CD is worth $2,499. You can't have it both ways. If you think the current MBP is a "fantastic deal" then surely you must think that if Apple release a new Merom MBP tomorrow then the price of MBPs will go up by $500 or more.

Touché!

iBorg

 

[jericho878]

No, but given the choice between "old" and "new," for the same price, buyers are going to pick C2D.

But if a company (Apple, Sony, etc.) has a C2D option available for sale, the two computers will not sell for the same price. The onus then shifts to the buyer to decide whether they want to pay more for the latest tech, or pay less for a last-gen machine.

Given that the majority of "switchers" will use their computers for fairly mundane tasks (email, surfing the web, listening to music and managing their media collections), last-gen will generally be good enough. That is precisely the reason why manufacturers and retailers alike prefer to work down inventory before new product launches.

Apple is still charging top dollar for "old" Core Duo processor units, while that same price gets you C2D from the competition.

It's no secret that Apple doesn't cut prices on computers unless they have released a new version themselves. Maddening though it may be for some, Apple's strategy is all about lowering the barriers to switching, while conditioning its current and future customers not to treat its products like commodities.

Most salesmen/women in places that sell both, e.g. CompUSA, prefer PCs and push customers toward those. I've seen it over and over again.

Those salespeople are probably pushing what they understand. I think Apple recognizes that it needs "sales advocates" on the floors of big box retailers, not just any salesperson. That's why Apple is coaching Best Buy staff how to sell Macs.

This is the deal potential switchers see - they don't care much about OS X, as they have no experience with it.

I disagree. I don't think "switchers" buy Macs/OSX sight unseen.

I think they have friends, family members or colleagues who have Macs, that have given the Apples positive reviews. I think they've been to an Apple store or some other outlet where Macs are only display and given them a test run. They'll generally have an iPod and assume that the intuitive and simple interface will also be apparent in the computers. But I think most importantly, "switchers" may just have had enough with Windows and want something different.

The combination of Intel, Boot Camp / Parallels, and Microsoft Office lowers the risk of switching even more.

 

[timmillwood]

Some news from engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/17/core-2-duo-macbook-and-macbook-pro-due-this-november/

Good news for all of you's eyeing those jazzy laptop numbers of Apple's, but still waiting for them to get out of the cro-mag era and entertain some Core 2 Duo processors. We just got word from an IT guy at a Swiss university who claims to have the gotten the scoop on upcoming MacBooks from some sales reps. Apparently they've confirmed Core 2 Duo processors will be making their way into upcoming MB and MBPs this November, and were even kind enough to let our tipster "pre-order" a C2D MacBook. Sure, it's all hearsay, and we knew this was happening sooner or later, but it's nice to get at least an inkling of when these long-overdue laptops are going to make into onto our laps lap's thermal protection

I wouldn't trust it, as one guy put it...

...A broken clock is right twice a day...

 

[dkoralek]

In a word, no.

Apple's profit margins on MBs and MBPs today are higher than they were almost 1/2 year ago, since Intel charges less for CoreDuo now. Yet Apple still charges top dollar. A price drop is warranted, although I'd probably still hold out for C2D. Paying top-shelf price for CoreDuo in a "Pro" notebook is an insult.

But, when they're the only game in town ... what other choice do we have? Either pay an inflated prices for "yesterday's technology," or wait. I'm choosing the latter.

Potential switchers have a 3rd choice: buy a PC, with "the fastest process on the planet, Core2Duo!"



iBorg

While I am as frustrated with the rest of you that Apple isn't delivering the core 2 duo equipped mbs and mbps yet. I wonder if there if more to the story (how else will the laptops be updated, are the higher speed core 2 duos really in great supply yet, etc.). I do, however, question whether we really know if Apple is really getting the core duos at a substantially cheaper cost than they were when they were first introduced. While we know that Intel is listing them at a lower price in groups of 1000 than they were before core 2 duos were available, do we know what apple was getting them for? I mean, you have to think that Apple was getting a great deal to switch (and likely a cheaper deal than Intel is listing). Just because Intel is shipping them at list at a lower rate, doesn't mean that Apple is getting the same discount off their already discounted price. There is some price point that Intel isn't going to drop it below.

cheers.

 

[rwbean]

Don't up the RAM from Apple.
Crucial is a good brand, and they are about half as expensive.
Just play around with your options, and see where you'd save the most $$$.

Also, side note...I believe you should keep your RAM.
One thing when sending an Apple back to AppleCare, is that the computer is under warranty with the original RAM and someone might give you a hard time.

I had to return a PB w/ a bad RAM slot, and they made sure I was using Apple RAM.

Just a thought...

One of the reasons the MBP wait is frustrating me is the lack of a 4GB possibility on current MBP. Prices are down to $543 for a 2GB SO-DIMM now if I read it aright. You may as well get a discount by specifying you want 2x512MB SO-DIMMs and selling them both on eBay, then putting in 2x2GB new SO-DIMMs.

 

[maverick808]

Some news from engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/17/core-2-duo-macbook-and-macbook-pro-due-this-november/



I wouldn't trust it, as one guy put it...

I don't see this as good news. Firstly, as you point out, the source seems completely unreliable. Secondly, if true, it could mean that it will be late November by the time we see the C2D in a MBP. I already think that Apple are extremely late as it is, and the current MBP has become a joke (Engadget make a crack about them being "cro-mag era"). A wait of over another month will look extremely bad.

 

[daneoni]

Some news from engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/17/core-2-duo-macbook-and-macbook-pro-due-this-november/

I wouldn't trust it, as one guy put it...

Its not good news but i could see it happening, this way the updates will set them up till Santa Rosa and the focus is then on Mac mini+iTV combo/Quad-Core MPs/iPods/iLife 07 at MWSF.

Also this way, Apple gets more time to focus on fixing current issues and doing more tests should they choose to do so and can ship the MBPs when released without any delays

 

[thunda32]

Imagine Sony are selling the very latest technology in an excellent laptop for $2000. Now, imagine HP are selling a well designed laptop but the technology in it is 9 months old and yet the laptop with this old technology costs $1000 more. Which one would you pick?

This is the deal potential switchers see - they don't care much about OS X, as they have no experience with it. Based on hardware alone, the MBP is an AWFUL deal today.

Furthermore, I don't see the argument "but OS X is worth the extra" as valid. Did OS X suddenly jump up in price from $129 to $1129 in the last 9 months? No? Do you expect the MBP to jump in price by $1000 when a new version with the latest technology is available? No, you expect it to be the same price. I mean really, do people honestly think the MBP is currently worth the price, when tomorrow or next week they expect a brand new MBP with the latest technology to be released yet cost exactly the same????

Either an MBP with C2D, bigger hard-drive, etc is worth $2,499 or the current MBP with only CD is worth $2,499. You can't have it both ways. If you think the current MBP is a "fantastic deal" then surely you must think that if Apple release a new Merom MBP tomorrow then the price of MBPs will go up by $500 or more.

Excellent post. I agree 100% which is why I'll be waiting to get full dollar value for my purchase.

 

[MacSA]

If updates dont come until the end of November, you might as well wait until MWSF and get iLife 07 (probably lol)

 

[daneoni]

If updates dont come until the end of November, you might as well wait until MWSF and get iLife 07 (probably lol)

Which i envisage most people doing BUT mac fans have that crazy gene in them so you never know

 

[Gogeta]

Yep, once they stick a Core 2 Duo in there my trigger finger is ready on that buy button. And not a moment sooner (or later )

 

[akadmon]

They would definitely appreciate OS X. In fact, they are switchers because they WANT to switch to OS X instead of being stuck with Windoze. The bottomline is that if an upgrade is not near and if the switcher gets a decent deal on a MB, (s)he would switch!

I won't pretend to represent the average "switcher", but personally I would not consider buying a Mac if it wasn't for the Intel switch which has
given me the opportunity to try the Mac OS worry free: If I don't like it, I can "trash" it and use Windows on my stylish, reliable (knock on titanium) computer, or use Windows alongside Mac OS, thereby recouping the sizable investment I have made in the Windows software over the years/still enjoying the variety offered by the Windows platform, at least until Apple finally takes over the world of computers

 

[ct-scan]

If I don't like it, I can "trash" it and use Windows on my stylish, reliable (knock on titanium) computer, or use Windows alongside Mac OS, thereby recouping the sizable investment I have made in the Windows software over the years/still enjoying the variety offered by the Windows platform, at least until Apple finally takes over the world of computers

Good luck doing this on your titanium.
I got one I'll sell you to, $500

 

[ChaoticHavok]

Possible Releases?

Could this be possible releases? Start a pool: My money is on MacExpo 2006

Upcoming Apple Events
Storage Expo 2006
Olympia, London - Oct 18-19

MacExpo 2006
Olympia, London - Oct 26-28

Photo Plus Expo — New York City
Nov 2-4

Music Live 2006
NEC, Birmingham - Nov 3-5

Data Retention & Recovery Seminar — Multiple Locations
Nov 5- Dec 7

Automate with AppleScript
Uxbridge, Middx - Nov 7-9

Photovision Roadshow
Brands Hatch - Nov 7

Guitarists and the Mac
Guildford - Nov 9

Server and Storage Seminar
Brighton - Nov 9

InterBEE — Makuhari, JP
Nov 15-17

Phofilmusigner
London W2 - Nov 17

Source: Apple.com and Apple.com/UK

 

[akadmon]

Good luck doing this on your titanium.
I got one I'll sell you to, $500

Such a deal Your titanium is prolly not even worth its own weight in its namesake metal

So what space age material will the new MBPs be encased in?

 

[thunda32]

I won't pretend to represent the average "switcher", but personally I would not consider buying a Mac if it wasn't for the Intel switch which has
given me the opportunity to try the Mac OS worry free: If I don't like it, I can "trash" it and use Windows on my stylish, reliable (knock on titanium) computer, or use Windows alongside Mac OS, thereby recouping the sizable investment I have made in the Windows software over the years/still enjoying the variety offered by the Windows platform, at least until Apple finally takes over the world of computers

I'm with you dude. Not until the intel chip and the possibility to run windows on a mac was I even CONSIDERING a mac. Great move by Apple in my opinion. So much so that it keeps me waiting for their new hardware before I buy my first laptop.

 

[akadmon]

Could this be possible releases? Start a pool: My money is on MacExpo 2006

Upcoming Apple Events
Storage Expo 2006
Olympia, London - Oct 18-19

MacExpo 2006
Olympia, London - Oct 26-28

Photo Plus Expo — New York City
Nov 2-4

Music Live 2006
NEC, Birmingham - Nov 3-5

Data Retention & Recovery Seminar — Multiple Locations
Nov 5- Dec 7

Automate with AppleScript
Uxbridge, Middx - Nov 7-9

Photovision Roadshow
Brands Hatch - Nov 7

Guitarists and the Mac
Guildford - Nov 9

Server and Storage Seminar
Brighton - Nov 9

InterBEE — Makuhari, JP
Nov 15-17

Phofilmusigner
London W2 - Nov 17

Source: Apple.com and Apple.com/UK

What's with all the UK crap? Last I heard the sun had set on the British empire about 60 year ago, and Apple is still based in California

 

[MarkCollette]

If updates dont come until the end of November, you might as well wait until MWSF and get iLife 07 (probably lol)

Or wait until OS X 10.5 comes out, and have a computer that can run all of its goodies too

Or wait until...