Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
azzurri000 said:
Perhaps only a minority of MBP buyers care about getting the latest chips in their notebook, but how does this pertain to us? Do you expect us, too, to ooh and aww over the built in i-sights?! Are you saying that we should become the majority that you speak of? That isn't likely to happen.

We have legitimate concerns here that Apple isn't matching the competition. We are frustrated, as iBorg20181 explained, and for me it is because I don't want to have to settle for another Windows POS, or is that PC?

If the nature of the updates don't really concern you, then why are you even here? Just wait for Apple to give you an e-mail about the updates.

-Another "retard"

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Apple needs the switchers, and most of them will be comparing Apple to PC before they hand over cash. If they see the bullet-point, "Core 2 Duo" and look at the MBP page, it looks like Apple's a generation behind.

For people who know the brands Pentium !!!/Pentium 4, that looks bad.

I doubt many switchers care about a webcam, tbh., tho HP is pushing them now...
 
ergle2 said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Apple needs the switchers, and most of them will be comparing Apple to PC before they hand over cash. If they see the bullet-point, "Core 2 Duo" and look at the MBP page, it looks like Apple's a generation behind.

For people who know the brands Pentium !!!/Pentium 4, that looks bad.

I doubt many switchers care about a webcam, tbh., tho HP is pushing them now...

I agree with you 100%.

I'm not sure if what I wrote was clear, but all I meant was that io_burn's argument seemed to be that most users care more about the new built-in i-sights to even notice the CPU, and I don't believe that we, at MacRumors, fit into that category (for the most part.)
 
iBorg20181 said:
Your tunnel-vision of MBP buyers keeps you from seeing the frustration that many of us have here! It sounds as though you upgrade to a new computer for s**** & giggles, every time a new product debuts ("...just for the sake of upgrading"). Most people upgrade when the new product's features, speed and conveniences make a difference. "Whiners" and "internet retards?" LOL! Unless Apple's marketing people are "retards," they'd instead see "knowledgable buyers" and "potential customers" - unless current 3% market share is their ultimate goal.

I upgrade notebooks about every 3 years (although I'm going on 4 years with my TiBook), and would have bought a MBP when they arrived last January. The deal-breaker for me was the lack of DL DVD-burning, with a slow 4x DVD-R - downgrades from the previous TiBook! Added to that was the soon-to-arrive Merom, giving me 64-bit capability for OS 10.5 and beyond. I don't give a rat's a** that the current OS is 32-bit ... I want some "future-proofing" when I spend $3k for a new notebook, since I'm not going to trade-up for glorious Santa Rosa next spring, just to be trendy! I'll keep, and use, my Merom MBP for a few years!

If you think this is "whining," (im)patiently waiting for Merom, and some feature upgrades (e.g. DVD-burning), then you're either blind, a fanatical "Apple Fan Boy®" who worships at the altar of his Stevesness, or one of those people who doesn't want to see others buy a product that outdates your "bleeding edge" Mac.

In the "bad old days," when Apple had to rely upon Moto, and then IBM, to (fail to) deliver the goods on decent notebook processors, we were totally kept in the dark, without any way to guage whether or not a new product was on the horizon. But it's no longer a matter of "trusting Apple" to give us the best available product - they're using the same damn parts as everyone else, and we see C2D shipping for everyone else's notebooks, except for Apple, and it's frustrating as hell! Sheesh! If Apple could even give a product announcement that "shipment for Merom MBP's will begin (fill in the date)", essentially the same as the competition is doing, that'd be great!

"Apple Fan Boys®" chastise us saying, "Apple doeesn't want you to know, 'cuz then you won't buy current stock!" Well, knowledgable buyers, like forum posters here, aren't buying now, since Merom is an imminent release. And the vast majority of buyers, uninformed, non-researching buyers, would still buy (and are buying), since they don't, and wouldn't, know better - or they can't wait, and need the product now, so they buy now.

I'm just tired of people p***ing and moaning about "whiners" in this thread! The most obnoxious "whining" is done by those chastising the people posting in this thread, who are mainly using this as a source of information, hoping for some clues to guide them ... and also using each other as an internet "support group" of people with common frustrations!

So, if people are upset by reading posts in this thread ... then kindly stay the hell out of it, and read something else!

(But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong ..... )

:p

iBorg


No, your opinion is right and it is shared whole heartedly by me. Give us the damn notebooks, Steve!
 
azzurri000 said:
I agree with you 100%.

I'm not sure if what I wrote was clear, but all I meant was that io_burn's argument seemed to be that most users care more about the new built-in i-sights to even notice the CPU, and I don't believe that we, at MacRumors, fit into that category (for the most part.)

That's what I took it to mean -- and I'm in agreement with you. I also feel that there's an awful lot of people in general not in that category -- enough to make a significant difference.
 
ergle2 said:
That's what I took it to mean -- and I'm in agreement with you. I also feel that there's an awful lot of people in general not in that category -- enough to make a significant difference.

Hang around an Apple Store for an hour or two and get back to me. It's rare that someone walks in the door who isn't a "Wow, iPod makes computers?" person.
 
io_burn said:
Hang around an Apple Store for an hour or two and get back to me. It's rare that someone walks in the door who isn't a "Wow, iPod makes computers?" person.

I don't doubt such people exist, but that wasn't my point -- which was simply that there's a lot of people who aren't in that category.

My local Apple store at least doesn't seem deluged with the terminally clueless... but perhaps that is in part down to location.
 
io_burn said:
Hang around an Apple Store for an hour or two and get back to me. It's rare that someone walks in the door who isn't a "Wow, iPod makes computers?" person.

I don't know if the people you mention would be the same ones to fork over $2000 (and upwards) on a whim for a MacBook Pro. Even if there are those that do, though, there are still plenty of professionals that would like Apple to make a competitive featured model.

The MacBook Pro has been self-designated as a professional notebook... it would be ridiculous and bad for Apple's image NOT to start shipping out merom ASAP.
 
azzurri000 said:
The MacBook Pro has been self-designated as a professional notebook... it would be ridiculous and bad for Apple's image NOT to start shipping out merom ASAP.

It would be even more ridiculous for Apple to ship a merom-based MBP which overheats as soon as the customers start upgrading to Leopard, Vista, or any other OS that puts the CPU into 64-bit mode.

I suspect the delay is due to a major case re-design to accommodate the heat of the new CPU. Merom is supposed to run cooler than yonah *IN 32 BIT MODE* but I don't think that is true for 64 bit mode.

Hopefully, we'll see a merom-based MBP with a new enclosure that addresses some of the shortcomings of the existing MBP (overheating, no easily swappable hard drive, etc.), but this is likely causing some delay.

Cheers
 
Did it yesterday dropped the cash. I had been waiting for my financial aid check and it finally came through so I did it. Should get the MBP at the beginning of next week sometime.

Maybe they will upgrade on Tuesday and I will get fresh, newly designed enclosure and a bad ass processor. (crosses fingers):D :cool:

edit: spelling good
 
I have to make my purchase next week and Im sooo frustrated my new macbook will not have 64-bit leopard support. Shame, Apple, shame!
 
ergle2 said:
I don't doubt such people exist, but that wasn't my point -- which was simply that there's a lot of people who aren't in that category.

My local Apple store at least doesn't seem deluged with the terminally clueless... but perhaps that is in part down to location.

I think its funny going into an Apple Store and seeing how many times in an hour someone accidentally sets off an alarm touching one of the iPods.
 
bryanc said:
I suspect the delay is due to a major case re-design to accommodate the heat of the new CPU. Merom is supposed to run cooler than yonah *IN 32 BIT MODE* but I don't think that is true for 64 bit mode.
Cheers


If that is the case, then I will be more understanding in re: to the delay. I would be disappointed if the design changed within a month or two of my buying a new MBP...
 
My latest thinking is that Santa Rosa will be released early because Intel is under so much pressure to perform better as a corporation - market share lost to AMD is not a good thing for the Intel Board and investors. Think around February as the date.

Now, if Santa Rosa requires a new mlb design, what are the chances that Apple is going to release a revised MBP case with an October - February shelf life?

Merom may be a chip swap for Yonah on the Napa platform - but will Penyrn be a chip swap for Merom on the Santa Rosa platform?

We may see Merom used in the MBP Napa platform but I am begining to wonder if - due to timing - the Santa Rosa platform / Penyrn design requirements are at play here.
 
bryanc said:
It would be even more ridiculous for Apple to ship a merom-based MBP which overheats as soon as the customers start upgrading to Leopard, Vista, or any other OS that puts the CPU into 64-bit mode.

I suspect the delay is due to a major case re-design to accommodate the heat of the new CPU....

bryanc - that makes sense - but why such a delay - its not like Apple just figured out there is a heat problem - this has been known since at least early March?? Apple surely knew about the "runs hot" nature of the MBP before they even shipped in early February.

The cooling system has only so many variables to work on: heatsinks, paste, heatpipes, fans, airflow, vents, power management / limits. None of this is new to laptop manufacturers nor is it groundbreaking technology. The 1" thin case is perhaps too "bleeding edge".

A good release fixes the issues but does so in a market timely fashion - the current MBP is simply overdue for a Rev B release - its been shipping for almost 8 months now and still does not even have some of the features of the $1000 MB. (And no - I do not consider the mlb fixes as being a Rev B.)
 
I have a feeling that they may arrive sometime after 7th of october, as that is when the final date for cut price iPods with laptops ends (in the uk)

It would be a good time to release the new line then, for that reason, and the fact i REALLY want need a new laptop soon
 
Wilz said:
I have a feeling that they may arrive sometime after 7th of october, as that is when the final date for cut price iPods with laptops ends (in the uk)

It would be a good time to release the new line then, for that reason, and the fact i REALLY want need a new laptop soon

Maybe Apple really is just waiting to end the UK iPod promotion. What day does the 7th come on? I hope they come out soon.
 
Apple Corps said:
My latest thinking is that Santa Rosa will be released early because Intel is under so much pressure to perform better as a corporation - market share lost to AMD is not a good thing for the Intel Board and investors. Think around February as the date.

Now, if Santa Rosa requires a new mlb design, what are the chances that Apple is going to release a revised MBP case with an October - February shelf life?

Merom may be a chip swap for Yonah on the Napa platform - but will Penyrn be a chip swap for Merom on the Santa Rosa platform?

We may see Merom used in the MBP Napa platform but I am begining to wonder if - due to timing - the Santa Rosa platform / Penyrn design requirements are at play here.

It's highly unlikely Santa Rosa will be released early given the revised roadmap released late July delayed the expected release. That's probably because the first test samples -- coincidentally sampled in July -- showed SR was sucking about double the power that Napa was.

Penryn will be a chip swap. Santa Rosa moves to a new socket (Socket P) to allow for future chips. Plus, Penryn's just about a year off, give or take.

Santa Rosa will require a redesign of the MBP, so I doubt that's related to the current delay in announcing the Merom MBP.

Bear in mind that market share hasn't been evaluted for the post-Core-2 launch period yet.
 
Andrew F said:
Maybe Apple really is just waiting to end the UK iPod promotion. What day does the 7th come on? I hope they come out soon.

My theory's still two-pronged -- there's not been enough Merom chips to satisfy demand for both iMac and MBP (and the iMac needed the "kick" in sales more badly), and now they're running down stocks 'til around Thanksgiving.

Day after Thanksgiving - Black Friday, one of, if not THE biggest sales day of the year for US retail - is the likely target of a launch shortly before Thanksgiving. Bear in mind the US is the biggest market for Apple currently.
 
bryanc said:
I suspect the delay is due to a major case re-design to accommodate the heat of the new CPU. Merom is supposed to run cooler than yonah *IN 32 BIT MODE* but I don't think that is true for 64 bit mode.

Do you know anything about computer architecture? I'll answer for you, apparently no. A processor isn't a transformer that magically changes when a 64 bit OS is installed on it. There is no major change in the operation or configuration of the processor. There are registers on a processor that hold 64 bits and those that hold 32.

For IA-32, for example, EAX, EBX, ECX, EDX, were all 32 bit registers. OSes that were made for 16-bit use could only access the lower 16-bits of each of those registers, which were named AX, BX, CX, DX. And any assembly instructions could arbitrary switch whether it was accessing all 32-bits or just the least significant 16.

It is true there are "modes" in which you can execute certain instructions, for example real mode vs protected allows you to address different amounts of RAM, but it doesn't change the physical properties of the processor. The power consumption has never shown to be different between protected and real modes in previous Intel processors. Where are you getting this?

Try your propaganda somewhere else. It looks to me like you just made that up. You had no metrics, no source, and definitely a conceptually wrong argument.
 
bryanc said:
It would be even more ridiculous for Apple to ship a merom-based MBP which overheats as soon as the customers start upgrading to Leopard, Vista, or any other OS that puts the CPU into 64-bit mode.

I suspect the delay is due to a major case re-design to accommodate the heat of the new CPU. Merom is supposed to run cooler than yonah *IN 32 BIT MODE* but I don't think that is true for 64 bit mode.

Hopefully, we'll see a merom-based MBP with a new enclosure that addresses some of the shortcomings of the existing MBP (overheating, no easily swappable hard drive, etc.), but this is likely causing some delay.

Cheers

I've suggested this here in the past, tho it didn't seem to gain any traction.

I've yet to see any benchmarks of Merom running XP 64bit ed. -- everyone's testing ye olde XP SP2 (tho' that's probably just because that's what the majority will run on it, at least 'til Vista...)
 
Mr.Gadget said:
Did someone say you could just pop a Core 2 Duo in your Macbook Pro if you wanted to? (not that it would be financially reasonable though...)

Well, in theory, if you were a master of the soldering iron...unlike desktop sockets, most mobile processors are soldered onto the mobo.
 
rtharper said:
Well, in theory, if you were a master of the soldering iron...unlike desktop sockets, most mobile processors are soldered onto the mobo.

At least in the PC world, most I've seen are socketted. Apple solders due to the thinness of their designs -- sockets add a few mm, so less room for cooling.
 
ergle2 said:
At least in the PC world, most I've seen are socketted. Apple solders due to the thinness of their designs -- sockets add a few mm, so less room for cooling.

I stand corrected. I don't have the iron constitution to think about opening up any of my laptops to expose the processor =p
 
rtharper said:
I stand corrected. I don't have the iron constitution to think about opening up any of my laptops to expose the processor =p

Had to, in the past, for various reasons.

I always hate opening laptops... 6 zillion screws and a right PITA to get to go back together again... and incredibly easy to break the case in the case of some (I'm looking at you, Compaq/HP...).
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.