Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?

[ergle2]

Hello,

I'm going to be buying one as well shortly, and ideally I would love a resolution upgrade, and the optional choice of adding 256mb graphics onto the base MBP. Doubt they'll give us the graphics choice though. Not too fussed on the rest of the stuff though.

Can't see the memory thing happening -- they want people who want that to buy the better model.

I would love a 1680x1050 res. on the 15" model.

 

[dkoralek]

It's not the Student Education store, it's the Educational Institution store.

My bad. You are correct. Our institutional store is up to 3-5 days on the 17"ers.

cheers.

 

[Apple Corps]

congrats applecorp, the 17" mbp is the one i'm gonna buy too.

but i have a question, how is the screen? Any uneven brightness?, i am not sure if the newer ones still have this problem.

I went to fry's on saturday, and the 17" mbp they had on display had a really unevenly lit screen. the center was nice and bright but everything around the edges was dark I also saw this on the 17" mbp at microcenter. Although the 15" mbps at both locations were fine.

can you test your screen for me? replace the desktop color to #FF8000, then see how consistant the color is....

The eveness of the screen illumination is "ok" at best. I can live with it but I have seen better. There is no light leakage at the bottom as was reported early on.

Perhaps Apple is going to really shock us on the Rev B MBP (whenever) with LED LCDs that will improve the illumination issue.

 

[Soundburst]

Yeh i know, it's a good strategic business move - with my edu-discount it's still like £300-400 dearer for the next model up even though i'd just like the graphics.

Also the 17inch MacBook Pro had the biggest iMacs screen resolution. Now that we have an even bigger 24inch iMac perhaps they will make the 17inch MBP the same res. as the biggest iMac, and the 15inch upgraded to the 20inch. . . Basically going one iMac size up. That would be such an amazingly dense notebook display.

We can but Dream.

 

[dkoralek]

My bad. You are correct. Our institutional store is up to 3-5 days on the 17"ers.

cheers.

What's interesting is that on the 17" mbp, thip ship time actually decreases if you bto (doesn't appear to be the case with any other model).

cheers.

 

[shadowx]

Well, this is not exactly something I wanted to see...

Core 2 Duo Shortage

Not to say that Apple can't pull some weight, but I think you can forget the Macbook's getting the C2D's until Q1 07. Hopefully this won't effect the MBP's...

 

[Apple Corps]

congrats applecorp, the 17" mbp is the one i'm gonna buy too.

but i have a question, how is the screen? Any uneven brightness?, i am not sure if the newer ones still have this problem.

I went to fry's on saturday, and the 17" mbp they had on display had a really unevenly lit screen. the center was nice and bright but everything around the edges was dark I also saw this on the 17" mbp at microcenter. Although the 15" mbps at both locations were fine.

can you test your screen for me? replace the desktop color to #FF8000, then see how consistant the color is....

The eveness of the screen illumination is "ok" at best. I can live with it but I have seen better. There is no light leakage at the bottom as was reported early on.

Perhaps Apple is going to really shock us on the Rev B MBP (whenever) with LED LCDs that will improve the illumination issue.

 

[ergle2]

Well, this is not exactly something I wanted to see...

Core 2 Duo Shortage

Not to say that Apple can't pull some weight, but I think you can forget the Macbook's getting the C2D's until Q1 07. Hopefully this won't effect the MBP's...

Yeah... the shortage was discussed in this very thread around Sunday-ish. Several people don't believe it exists, but I've figured this is the very reason we've not seen the updates yet -- Apple's already comitted their current allocations to the iMac...

Gah. Wish the iMac had gone with Conroe...

 

[ThunderLounge]

Well, this is not exactly something I wanted to see...

Core 2 Duo Shortage

Not to say that Apple can't pull some weight, but I think you can forget the Macbook's getting the C2D's until Q1 07. Hopefully this won't effect the MBP's...

Ain't that about a B!


According to the article:

Intel products that are currently in short supply include some in the Core 2 Duo (Merom) series, some in the Celeron M line, and the Yonah T2250 and T2050, the sources revealed.

But, which merom's? If it's the 2.16 and 2.33, it may be a bit of a wait.


Then again, the suppliers that are scrambling could be (and most likely are) the "little guys".

Another piece of the puzzle, perhaps.

 

[hfdave]

While I doubt that it means anything, the Intel Core Duo link found on the middle right hand side of the Mac Book Pro website does not seem to be working. I tried going to apple.com/macbookpro/intelcore2duo ... no luck heh

 

[ergle2]

But, which merom's? If it's the 2.16 and 2.33, it may be a bit of a wait.

Given they'll be the ones with the lowest yield, it seems highly likely.

I think the fastest I've seen in a store is a T7200 (2.0GHz) notebook, but standard disclaimers apply.

 

[jericho878]

Well, this is not exactly something I wanted to see...

Core 2 Duo Shortage

Not to say that Apple can't pull some weight, but I think you can forget the Macbook's getting the C2D's until Q1 07. Hopefully this won't effect the MBP's...

Considering the recent comments from Intel personnel about their just-finished collaboration with Apple on new Core 2 Duo integration into the MBP, I doubt that Apple is so constrained on CPUs that it can't ship some. If anything, I'm now more certain that MacBooks will not be updated at the same time as MacBook Pros. The gamble being that there simply isn't enough supply near-term for both product lines.

 

[ergle2]

Considering the recent comments from Intel personnel about their just-finished collaboration with Apple on new Core 2 Duo integration into the MBP, I doubt that Apple is so constrained on CPUs that it can't ship some. If anything, I'm now more certain that MacBooks will not be updated at the same time as MacBook Pros. The gamble being that there simply isn't enough supply near-term for both product lines.

I think the problem isn't that they can't ship some, it's that Apple doesn't want to launch then have supply problems before Christmas.

Given a lot of Apple customers won't be aware of Merom, it's probably better that they stick with the Yonah machines until they can guarentee stocks of Merom systems...

I'd never expected both MB and MBP to update on the same day for the same reason, tho' I have figured that the longer it takes, the more likely it will be a same-day thing.

 

[macd00d]

While I doubt that it means anything, the Intel Core Duo link found on the middle right hand side of the Mac Book Pro website does not seem to be working. I tried going to apple.com/macbookpro/intelcore2duo ... no luck heh

It's been like that at least a couple days. Here's to hoping it means something though...

 

[generik]

Someone should email the web master and ask "What is Core Duo? I am looking to be a switcher but the page from the Core Duo link leads to a not found error"

 

[meepm00pmeep]

it's because the web designer used THIS html page... it's just intel.html

 

[jericho878]

I think the problem isn't that they can't ship some, it's that Apple doesn't want to launch then have supply problems before Christmas.

Given a lot of Apple customers won't be aware of Merom, it's probably better that they stick with the Yonah machines until they can guarentee stocks of Merom systems...

I'd never expected both MB and MBP to update on the same day for the same reason, tho' I have figured that the longer it takes, the more likely it will be a same-day thing.

If Apple is having supply issues before Xmas, most likely so are other Intel customers, including Dell, HP, et al. The shortage, however pronounced, hasn't prevented them from announcing/releasing C2D systems during the back-to-school shopping season.

On the contrary, I think Apple customers are aware of Merom, especially its "pro" customers. Unlike the pre-Intel days, it's pretty easy now to compare the specs on an Apple system to a competitor machine and realize that unless you're ascribing a lot of value to OSX and Apple design, you're overpaying for an "outdated" system by buying an MBP now.

Personally, it's difficult to justify paying $3000+ for a notebook with an last-gen CPU and GPU, and a without a reasonable bump in hard drive capacity. However, YMMV.

 

[Neuroguy]

Maybe it is a chip shortage

The only reason, *I think* we are waiting for MBPs is not a chip shortage, but a redesign. If Apple has the chips, they could drop them into the recently designed MacBooks. However, that would put a better chip in the "consumer" notebook vs. the pro model. So, they are sitting on their stocks of Meroms, getting the redesign done for the heat, etc. Then, they will drop in the new chip. I would suspect that the Merom MacBooks will be very shortly behind the MBPs, if not a same-day release. We all know that Apple wants to be the 64 bit king...

Just my thoughts.

Neuroguy

PS. Another thought... Apple may just be holding out for the faster Meroms... 2.0 + GHZ. Don't want to take a speed step back on an update, eh?

 

[ThunderLounge]

Given they'll be the ones with the lowest yield, it seems highly likely.

I think the fastest I've seen in a store is a T7200 (2.0GHz) notebook, but standard disclaimers apply.

How true.

The thing in my mind about this is wondering just how much of the "allocation" for the iMac is actually being allocated to the iMac. It might be possible, or at least something to consider, that some of the chips are perhaps being routed to the MBP project.


I'm wondering what's actually up their sleeve. For the MBP, and in general.

Something really cool always comes out of MWSF, and while I'm sure that MBP's, and iTV and the lot will be discussed... they just aren't going to cut the mustard in terms of "shock and awe" as the usual "big" announcement(s) coming from this event. By Januaray, they will be "old" news.

Something, somewhere, that's really cool is coming. The question killing me is "what?"


Maybe they'll say screw Santa Rosa, we've built something better and it's "now shipping".

Ok, that was more of a joke than anything. However, with Apple you never know. Makes me think back to something else someone mentioned not too long ago. Might have been in this thread, or another one:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.500/


Looking back, "I don't care who you are, that's funny right there."

 

[Multimedia]

Shipping Times Are Not Longer From Here

The MacBook Pro is now listed as out of stock with 7-10 day wait times at the online U.S. Apple Store for Education Institutions.

This same time delay happened a week or so before the iMac was updated on September 6th, and is up from yesterday's times of 1-3 days for the 15-inch.

Meanwhile the 17-inch ship times decreased from 5-7 days to 3-5 days, and the MacBooks are all at 5-7 days. Again, this is all at the online Apple store for education institutions. Speculate on that as you will... I personally take that as a good sign for pending updates.

On my computer the MBP and MB ship times are 24 hours and 1-3 biz days respectfully on both regular and education stores.

 

[generik]

I guess the best relief for this agonising wait is to make a decision like "I will get the MBP on Christmas Eve" and stick to that

 

[ergle2]

If Apple is having supply issues before Xmas, most likely so are other Intel customers, including Dell, HP, et al. The shortage, however pronounced, hasn't prevented them from announcing/releasing C2D systems during the back-to-school shopping season.

The big differences being,

- the majority of C2D notebooks shipped by Dell et al. are from the lower speed-bins, whereas the MBP must use at least 2.0/2.13 parts and many expect 2.13/2.33 parts to be used.

and

- Dell et al. aren't shipping Merom in desktop systems. Apple are. The iMac is using Apple's initial allocation already.

If it were not for the iMac, perhaps Apple would be shipping already too.

Of course, we also don't know who ordered what and when.

On the contrary, I think Apple customers are aware of Merom, especially its "pro" customers. Unlike the pre-Intel days, it's pretty easy now to compare the specs on an Apple system to a competitor machine and realize that unless you're ascribing a lot of value to OSX and Apple design, you're overpaying for an "outdated" system by buying an MBP now.

Funnily enough, you've just made the argument I usually make. I am sure it's in this very thread if you check back.

However, IF there's a major supply problem that changes everything.

The situation beomes either:

- have current system in stock but specs aren't quite as good

or

- have better system on paper with no stocks.

I firmly believe the average consumer wouldn't know if their system was powered by Merom, Yonah or a piece of smoked edam, just so long as it worked. The risk is from comparison shopping -- I am sure the average consumer can read if they choose to. The Pro buyers in my experience are no better than anyone else. A significant number buy the better model - MBP in the case of Apple - because it's a status symbol...

However, the comparison shoppers are the "switchers" needed to grow market share -- which you can't do if you have no stocks. So that sort of nullifies itself...

Personally, it's difficult to justify paying $3000+ for a notebook with an last-gen CPU and GPU, and a without a reasonable bump in hard drive capacity. However, YMMV.

I agree, though to be fair, none of them are $3000+ -- they start at just under $2K. I also think you're a shade unfair to the GPU, given if they're sticking with ATI what else can they put in there? The x1800 draws too much power and is too hot.

However, you're looking at it from the consumer's point of view. Product releases are dictated by Apple's point of view.

 

[ergle2]

How true.

The thing in my mind about this is wondering just how much of the "allocation" for the iMac is actually being allocated to the iMac. It might be possible, or at least something to consider, that some of the chips are perhaps being routed to the MBP project.


I'm wondering what's actually up their sleeve. For the MBP, and in general.

Something really cool always comes out of MWSF, and while I'm sure that MBP's, and iTV and the lot will be discussed... they just aren't going to cut the mustard in terms of "shock and awe" as the usual "big" announcement(s) coming from this event. By Januaray, they will be "old" news.

Something, somewhere, that's really cool is coming. The question killing me is "what?"


Maybe they'll say screw Santa Rosa, we've built something better and it's "now shipping".

Ok, that was more of a joke than anything. However, with Apple you never know. Makes me think back to something else someone mentioned not too long ago. Might have been in this thread, or another one:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.500/


Looking back, "I don't care who you are, that's funny right there."

I don't see Apple going with anything custom for a variety of reasons, including one reason they moved to Intel was so that they didn't have to design their own ASICs.

I figure that the iMac will be first in line for the current Meroms purely because it's shipping. From a commercial point of view, it makes sense to hold off launching the updated MBP rather than having two lines starved.

My guess is Apple wanted them out already for all the good reasons stated out there (including by yours truely) but can't right now because they're just not getting enough processors...

 

[barnaby]

These kinds of arguments are always lame.
...

3. Meroms support 64 bit code. 64 bit code like Leopard (although we don't know for sure), or code like Vista x64 (that is 100% for sure). Sure, you might not mind running things in half arsed modes like some Frankinstein hybrid 32/64 bit system like Tiger is, but some people might actually *gasp* appreciate the ability to judge 64 bit code. Get off your high horse already, if you disagree just keep it to yourself. Not like your arrogant rants contributed anything either.

Except both Win64 and Vista run 64-bit apps considerably slower than the 32-bit counterparts. The 64bit code in Win64 is an ugly hack to enable IA32e's comptability mode. Many of of the features of the the compatibility mode are just so this sort of thing is possible. The optimizations for the eight extra registers need to make it to the compilers though.

Tiger runs 64 bit at the kernel layer, but not at the GUI layer. i.e. they too are using the compatibility mode, albeit cleaner since (1) the OS is more processor neutral (shown by the near-effortless switch to Intel) and (2) 32/64 neutral since they've had to deal with G5's for some time.

The hardware isn't what makes Mac a Mac. It's the OS and the integration. You can run the same hardware with a PC. You can even run a hacked version of OS X on that hardware. But it still won't be a Mac.

btw. Most people don't need (in a laptop)
(1) 64 bit's for addressing memory
(2) 64 bit registers
(vector operations on Yonah [core duo] already support 128 bits covering photoshop, video editing, sound, etc.)

The place where IA32e (EM64) [aka 64 bit mode] comes into play is when you get double the number of registers to do compiler optimization with.

 

[ergle2]

Except both Win64 and Vista run 64-bit apps considerably slower than the 32-bit counterparts. The 64bit code in Win64 is an ugly hack to enable IA32e's comptability mode. Many of of the features of the the compatibility mode are just so this sort of thing is possible. The optimizations for the eight extra registers need to make it to the compilers though.

Tiger runs 64 bit at the kernel layer, but not at the GUI layer. i.e. they too are using the compatibility mode, albeit cleaner since (1) the OS is more processor neutral (shown by the near-effortless switch to Intel) and (2) 32/64 neutral since they've had to deal with G5's for some time.

The hardware isn't what makes Mac a Mac. It's the OS and the integration. You can run the same hardware with a PC. You can even run a hacked version of OS X on that hardware. But it still won't be a Mac.

btw. Most people don't need (in a laptop)
(1) 64 bit's for addressing memory
(2) 64 bit registers
(vector operations on Yonah [core duo] already support 128 bits covering photoshop, video editing, sound, etc.)

The place where IA32e (EM64) [aka 64 bit mode] comes into play is when you get double the number of registers to do compiler optimization with.

Indeed, WoW is a crufty hack, tho it's not "considerably" slower... usually a few points.

Don't forget that with Merom you also get single-cycle SSE -- a huge improvement if what you do takes advantage of 128bit SSE instructions.