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While I don't own a M1 Mac and with the prices here in Greece so much higher I don't see me getting one any time soon, I am so happy that Apple destroyed(s) all personal low expectations for their chips. It's about time to have some more competition going on.
Good job Apple.
If you have access to the average American over-consumer you might be able to get a good deal on an M1 Air/Pro. The shipping costs might make the savings negligible.

I’m still shocked at how good this 13” M1 MBP is. It will be interesting to see what Apple can pull off on the next Mac Pro in something I’m assuming will be a similar size of the G4 Cube or the Trash Can Pro.
 
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That doesn't make ANY sense !

They've already over-shot their existing market by a wide margin !

The M1 Pro & M1 Max are over-kill for 99.9% of Apple's existing customer base !

I suspect what we're hearing about now is the 911 GT3 version, good for press coverage, but NOT a volume driver !
The iPhone 6s is already overkill for majority of people, but doesn't stop progression of technology. ;)

Did they overshot their previous intel models? Yes. But that just mean there's room for further improvements.

Apple just took care the portable SoCs. They now have a workstation class mobile SoC with the M1 Max. Next stop is the desktop, where the performance gap is still there. This is actually a tougher market to show better performance since the competitors don't have the restriction for performance per watt. So the challenge for Apple is to really flex out the performance in both CPU and GPU.

The iMac Pro and Mac Pro have never been volume drivers. The volume drivers are the Macbook Air and iPhone. But the segment still exist, and this segment are highly valuable segment as they are willing to spend a lot more than the typical consumer. Apple had been losing a bit in this segment thanks to their missteps in their trash can Mac Pro and the limitations of intel.

Also, Imo the focus will no longer be just pure CPU performance (which intel is still clinging on). There's ML/neural engine performance, there's the hardware video encoders, the ISP, etc. Those will open up more application possibilities.
 
It will be interesting to see what Apple can pull off on the next Mac Pro in something I’m assuming will be a similar size of the G4 Cube or the Trash Can Pro.

G4 Cube
9.57 liters
7.7" x 7.7" x 9.8"


The render with the 2019 Mac Pro 3D venting looks a bit chunkier, but I think it could come in at no more than 10 liters...!

And since the airflow is front-to-back & the Cube would be on a desk not on the floor next to or under a desk, I would have feet like the new 2021 Mac Book Pros, not the empty volume of the 2019 Mac Pro feet...

Mac mini-style internal PSU, just taller & more watts...

Vertical mobo with PSU behind it, rest of chassis is filled with the heat sink for the MCM...
 
Nvidia, AMD and Intel will look really bad when Apple delivers a pro desktop with 2-4x the performance of an AMD Ryzen 9 5950X desktop CPU & 2-4x the performance of a NVidia RTX 3080 dGPU at a fraction of the power draw and fraction of operating noise.
Well, that would make Apple look bad, not Nvidia, Intel or AMD. Apple need to compete with the professional workstation market for the MacPro, so single/dual Xeon Platinum, 1TB+ RAM and not toy 3080s, but at least single RTX8000, better more. That has more power draw, sure, but that’s the least to worry in HPC. The latest Nvidia DGX stations are pretty much silent.
 
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Well, that would make Apple look bad, not Nvidia, Intel or AMD. Apple need to compete with the professional workstation market for the MacPro, so single/dual Xeon Platinum, 1TB+ RAM and not toy 3080s, but at least single RTX8000, better more. That has more power draw, sure, but that’s the least to worry in HPC. The latest Nvidia DGX stations are pretty much silent.
I am sure the implementation would match market expectations. :)
 
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There is no assumption here. Apple literally has a diversity score that it uses to rate its hiring process. This is public information. They openly have offensive hiring policies that they deliberately engage in. They are doing everything they can to hire people based on race, gender, and sexual identity. The more marginalized the better, as it ticks more notches on their diversity score. Don't believe me? Google it. This disgusting crap is actually real.

And no one can hide the fact that this effort at Apple has paralleled their decline in quality.

What are you saying exactly? That Apple is intentionally hiring unqualified engineers?
 
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Future Macs will have the screen printed on the inside of your eyeballs, and the M37 Pro Max Pro Extreme Super Pro chip embedded in your chest.
Surely they will connect directly with the optic nerve to avoid anything so crude as the eyeball itself with the chip embedded right by the optic nerve too. This would be a very effective way of saving power use.
 
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I am very excited at the idea that Apple can scale up performance linearly by adding more cores and GPUs. Their chips have the most memory cross-section bandwidth of any CPU on the planet by a wide margin, meaning that they have tons of headroom to scale up CPUs and GPUs to suit different applications/price points. And they really can tile together 2-4 dies into a single package, which means that they can get to 2x and 4x the M1 Max's performance, which will be astounding. Compared to Intel, that should give them something like 2-3x the performance of Intel's fastest chip, in one package, with lower power consumption. Clearly, Apple's market is consumers (laptops, desktops, mobile) but with this performance, they would be beating nearly all the server-class chips, too. And performance per watt is critical for servers, since watts consumed is always the limiting factor in server hosting. If Apple servers have 3x the performance per watt, that means you can pack 3x the performance into the same data center, a huge win.
 
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Thank you! I'd love to make one using Google Sheets in the future. Pls be aware that the data I provided is largely conjencture at best.

I call it the "Mac mini Pro" for three reasons
  • The curent Mac mini has a 150W PSU that was carried over from the Mac mini Core i5 & Core i7 with max power consumption of 85W & 122W respectively. Apple disclosed that its peak power load for the Mac Mini M1 is only 39W
  • The MBP 14" M1 Max & M1 Pro can be powered full tilt by the bundled 96W charger. So when we remove its mini LED display's power overhead it would be possible for that Mac mini's 150W PSU to power a M1 Max, "M1 Max Duo" or even a "M1 Max Quadro". At top spec'd BTO it could cost beyond $6,000.​
  • There's rumor of the return of the Mac Cube
Nvidia, AMD and Intel will look really bad when Apple delivers a pro desktop with 2-4x the performance of an AMD Ryzen 9 5950X desktop CPU & 2-4x the performance of a NVidia RTX 3080 dGPU at a fraction of the power draw and fraction of operating noise.
You make some excellent points. I didn't even think of the power requirements. On the other hand, what is possible, and what Apple thinks is most profitable, are often conflicting, unfortunately. For example, it would be entirely possible for Apple to release a 16" M1 MBA/MBP, but they haven't, and likely won't, as they don't see it raising their profits. Similarly, they might reserve the 2x/4x Max configurations for the full Mac Pro. I'll be waiting with curiosity to see if your conjectures come true though.
 
We've now entered a news cycle where awesome Mac rumors are once again the norm. The future of the Mac is very exciting indeed. Just from a pure technology standpoint, it's fascinating seeing what Apple is doing in the SOC space.

My M1 iMac is by far the best computer I've ever owned, but I have to say it's going to be hard to resist one of the new machines on 3rd or 4th gen Apple Silicon.
Just imagine an AS Mac Pro and how insane that thing is going to be! I can not wait to see it unveiled and I wonder if it will be the 40 core version talked about here or if it will be even more cores?
 
You make some excellent points. I didn't even think of the power requirements. On the other hand, what is possible, and what Apple thinks is most profitable, are often conflicting, unfortunately. For example, it would be entirely possible for Apple to release a 16" M1 MBA/MBP, but they haven't, and likely won't, as they don't see it raising their profits. Similarly, they might reserve the 2x/4x Max configurations for the full Mac Pro. I'll be waiting with curiosity to see if your conjectures come true though.

At WWDC 2005 Steve Jobs popularized to the mass market the metric of performance per Watt.

This is important when it comes to battery life of the AirPods, Watch, iPhone, iPad and Macbooks. It is a factor for desktops & servers not for the purpose of usability but on the power bills and operating noise.

Typical PCMasterRace do not care or do not make the connection between that and the monthly utility bill they pay. All they care about is raw processing power to get triple digit fps for games. Never mind if their room sounds like the inside of an aircraft powering to take off. They have headphones to isolate themselves anyways.

But if you are business owner who takes his fiscal discipline from the workplace to the home you will appreciate that the iMac Pro's 500W.

It may be reduced to <300W of the iMac 27" when the iMac with M1 Max that has raw processing power exceeding the top-end Mac Pro.

I'd love to have a MBA 16" M1 to compete with the LG gram 16" but Apple probably knows that the volume required for it isn't sufficient to introduce one at this time. When Apple is able to ship ~55 million units worldwide from the ~22.5 million they do so in 2020 then I would not be surprised they'll introduce a MBA 16" M3 or M6 that may share the same 57 billion transistor as the M1 Max by year 2032.

My speculation that the Mac mini & iMac Pro will get the M1 Pro, M1 Max and their higher-end chiplet SKUs has more to do with increasing the volume of these chips for the purpose of economies of scale.

Look at the row labeled form factor Apple creates an Apple silicon chip and uses that into as many applicable product line as possible.

Who would have ever thought of using a laptop much less desktop chip in a tablet? I was really expecting an A14X chip derived from the iPhone 12's A14 chip instead.

With the M1 Pro & Max it is only used with the MBP 16" & 14" so far. The lowest powered charger for an M1 Max is 96W so that's my origin point for my educated guess.

The Mac mini's enclosure is mostly empty with a 150W PSU when they reused it with the M1 then it has the physical space & power overhead to accommodate more powerful chips. One use case for the Mac mini is as a server.

Apple has yet to replace the $1,099 Mac Mini Core i5 & $1,299 Mac mini Core i7. So there is a current market for a more expensive Mac mini M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Max Duo & M1 Max Quadro.

An estimated M1 Max Quadro die size of 8.502cm² with 40 cores can fit inside a 19.7cm² Mac mini easily but may cost ~$5,000 as 36-core server chips sell for $4,000-5,400 and 32-core desktop chips sell for $2,000-2,600.

This Mac mini will no doubt have a 10GbE port in the base model by default.

m1quadro-jpeg.1903387
 
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I doubt Microsoft will simultaneously support two different enterprise architectures.

Microsoft doesn't seem to have those doubts.

In 2021 ...
"... the company has had several high-profile wins including Cloudflare, Equinix, and Oracle. Today, the company added Microsoft to its list of customers, as the cloud giant plans to use Altra to meet its lofty 2030 carbon-neutrality goals, said Jeff Wittich, chief product officer at Ampere. ..."


but not really new.... 2017

"... Microsoft revealed this week that it is currently running Windows Server on ARM machines in its datacenters using chips from multiple vendors, including Qualcomm and Cavium. Windows 11 compatibility requirements remain worlds apart from breaking x86 functionality. Many Fortune 500 businesses reliant on legacy pipelines would vote against your presumptions with their wallets. Like it or not, Intel's existential problems lie in the desktop & server markets, not mobile computing. ..."

The "microsoft can't get it right until version 3 " meme would mean they are getting close to "break out" at this point. :)


The "toss up" is more so whether Microsoft will continue to buy semi-custom enterprise server CPUs from Ampere going forward or roll one of their own with a future Neoverse baseline design more directly from ARM. ( there were rumors about Microsoft doing one in house but Ampere has slightly shifted their biz model to doing more adaptive solutions for big players over time. )





I don't think you understand Intel's business model, which heavily depends on desktops & servers. Long-term OEM contracts & the relative competitiveness of Intel's mobile chips versus desktop ones mean Intel has bigger fires to fight, i.e., AMD. In this context, Apple's business remains a rounding error to Intel, albeit a prestigious one, which explains the recent campaign to woo Cupertino back.

Apple's business isn't quite a rounding error. Apple's buys of Intel CPUs was more highly skewed to the more profitable end of their CPU product line up. Intel is very far from dying but their margins are sliding. If they had Apple that would help backstop that more. Not totally erase the slide but they could tap dance around it more. Apple could help save the stock price more than save the company .

Intel does have more problems than just Apple. In part, because they try to be everything for everybody that means they have tons of "fronts" with competitors. GPU space it is Nvidia and AMD. Networking. etc.


The better shot for Intel would be getting back some of Apple's foundry biz over time. The modem? MPIC? An ARM neoverse for Apple's cloud services?
 
Microsoft doesn't seem to have those doubts.
As I mentioned earlier, Linux dominates cloud computing, which remains entirely separate from end-user enterprise IT & legacy dependencies.
Apple could help save the stock price more than save the company.
In isolation, very unlikely, aside from a temporary pop for the share price, which has roughly stabilized since Pat Gelsinger took over. Apple's business remains significant to Intel mostly as a signaling mechanism to the rest of the industry, i.e., if Intel can win Apple back on merit, Intel likely can win back much bigger chunks of business in the desktop & server markets from AMD.

Otherwise, in the big scheme of things, Apple simply does not contribute a huge dollar amount to Intel's bottom line. Intel's existential conundrum lies in losing market share to Nvidia & AMD across sectors, which has prompted heavy R&D from Intel in Raptor Lake, Meteor Lake & beyond, likely pressuring gross margins. Ironically, however, Intel's net margin has increased in recent years to more than 25%.
 
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That doesn't make ANY sense !

They've already over-shot their existing market by a wide margin !

The M1 Pro & M1 Max are over-kill for 99.9% of Apple's existing customer base !

I suspect what we're hearing about now is the 911 GT3 version, good for press coverage, but NOT a volume driver !
Why do so many people say this??? Overkill for Pro's?? For Power users?

It is like saying I don't want the faster engine in my car that is also more efficient. No please give me the slower less efficient car because it is overkill for me?

No most people want the power even if they don't always need it. Also some people like to future proof as much as possible and right now these are the fastest and most powerful laptops on the market.
 
They are hiring less qualified management by prioritizing other things besides qualification. Per their own public information.
How do you know they're "less qualified" exactly?

Your words, not mine... Curious what information you have access to that helped you jump to that conclusion.

While you're at it, what does a qualified candidate look like?
 
i hate that 5nm and 3nm aren't actually sizes but just marketing gimmicks cause it doesn't really obviously tell us anything besides they're just better
 
My prediction is M2 chip will perform in between M1 Pro and Max, which is superb for a base model SoC. It may hurt people who already paid $2K for M1 Pro MBPs, though.
 
i hate that 5nm and 3nm aren't actually sizes but just marketing gimmicks cause it doesn't really obviously tell us anything besides they're just better
The reality of lithographic technique and performance was always more complex than the um/nm/Å metric. The size of a standard SRAM cell would be a better, but still woefully inadequate, measure.
Lithography performance simply doesn’t let itself be boiled down to a Single Figure of Merit, much as people love them.
 
My prediction is M2 chip will perform in between M1 Pro and Max, which is superb for a base model SoC. It may hurt people who already paid $2K for M1 Pro MBPs, though.
It will be like the An and AnX chips on the iPhone and iPad. Newer gen An chip will usually get faster single core performance due to newer core design, while the older AnX will still be better at multi core and GPU performance.

The M2 will be better at single core, but will be a bit behind in the multi core and GPU performance compared to the M1 Pro and M1 Max, where they have more performance and GPU cores.

Plus, if Apple keep the same pattern as the M1, then the M2 won't get the video encoding engine that's in the M1 Pro/Max.
 
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