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G5 iMac?
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Ubiquity
Being unbiquitous within a certain niche user or social group doesn't make a product mainstream. Ipods are prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of people. Manhattan is a playground for (excuse the 80's jargon) yuppies and high-flyers and I don't think provides an accurate cross section of the general public.
The private school I work at is full of rich kids whose parents all drive Porshes and shiny, top of the line Mercedes. Would you also say they were mainstream cars?
Many people buy ipods because they have now become the "in" thing. I think that this intangible quality is also present in Apple's computer line, but to a much lesser extent. I genuinely think that many people who buy Macs do so because they DO think differently. Creative people who work with music or images are likely to have a more discerning taste for the esthetic and are less likely to jump onto fashion bandwagons. They choose Macs for their own reasons. While browsing around the computer section of a large store, I was stopped in my tracks when I spotted an LCD imac. I had never seen one before or even heard of them.
Ipods are great products and excellent quality but it's my guess that for a lot of people this comes as a bonus because they would have bought one anyway.
mcfudd said:They are not mainstream everywhere.
But go to Manhattan, NY and you will discover they are very "mainstream."
Being unbiquitous within a certain niche user or social group doesn't make a product mainstream. Ipods are prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of people. Manhattan is a playground for (excuse the 80's jargon) yuppies and high-flyers and I don't think provides an accurate cross section of the general public.
The private school I work at is full of rich kids whose parents all drive Porshes and shiny, top of the line Mercedes. Would you also say they were mainstream cars?
Many people buy ipods because they have now become the "in" thing. I think that this intangible quality is also present in Apple's computer line, but to a much lesser extent. I genuinely think that many people who buy Macs do so because they DO think differently. Creative people who work with music or images are likely to have a more discerning taste for the esthetic and are less likely to jump onto fashion bandwagons. They choose Macs for their own reasons. While browsing around the computer section of a large store, I was stopped in my tracks when I spotted an LCD imac. I had never seen one before or even heard of them.
Ipods are great products and excellent quality but it's my guess that for a lot of people this comes as a bonus because they would have bought one anyway.
The eMac is not going anywhere anytime soon. Apple CANNOT produce an LCD Mac for $750. The eMac lets Apple compete at a price point they would not otherwise be able to. And you obviously don't know how Apple operates if you think they're going to drop a product 2 and half months after it was updated (mid-April).mcfudd said:
PRØBE said:
I am not trying to discount the elegant design and "coolness" factor of iPods by saying they have become mainstream. Perhaps the disagreement is over the definition of "mainstream" itself.
But, having spent considerable time in Manhattan (and Boston), I can tell you that you will see just as many people listening to iPods riding the subway in Manhattan as you will see "rich yuppy women" listening to their iPod minis in upscale, chic gyms.
In my opinion, when you see one out of ten people on the subway listening to an iPod --- they have become mainstrean --- and not just a plaything of the social elite. This is more than the mindless masses following the next "in" thing.
Also remember, the SOHO Apple store is one of busiest in the nation. There are also thousands of "poor" students (NYU, Columbia, etc.) and "poor" recent grads purchasing iPods.
Perhaps Apple has done something more with the iPod than create the next trend. Maybe they have produced a really great consumer electronics device --- one that people feel $299,$399,$499 is worth the price.
PRØBE said:
I do not agree with your analogy of an iPod being the same as a Mercedes or Porsche. It is a nice compliment to Jobs however.
And, if the only reason consumers purchase iPods is because they have become the "in" thing (which I only partially agree with), how is that an argument that they are NOT mainstream. I thought that as soon as something becomes the "in" thing it IS mainstream.
crt is dead
Only time will tell if you are correct. Perhaps it is "obvious" I "don't know" how Apple operates.
I am interested to know how you have reached the conclusion that Apple "CANNOT" produce an LCD mac for $999 (the real price of the eMac).
The fact is, LCDs are no longer the cutting edge technology they used to be. Prices are down and supply is good. Apple may not get the huge margin on the new system they are currently getting selling a CRT system, but it is time for a change.
Apple may not kill the eMac this summer, but my money is betting a replacement is already being arranged. Perhaps for a fall '04 release. For back-to-school. I could be wrong, however, and frequently am.
dongmin said:
Only time will tell if you are correct. Perhaps it is "obvious" I "don't know" how Apple operates.
I am interested to know how you have reached the conclusion that Apple "CANNOT" produce an LCD mac for $999 (the real price of the eMac).
The fact is, LCDs are no longer the cutting edge technology they used to be. Prices are down and supply is good. Apple may not get the huge margin on the new system they are currently getting selling a CRT system, but it is time for a change.
Apple may not kill the eMac this summer, but my money is betting a replacement is already being arranged. Perhaps for a fall '04 release. For back-to-school. I could be wrong, however, and frequently am.
I dont think Emac is going anywhere soon and thats why i think that Imac will be kept in the higher price brackets but performance will have to be improved in both the cpu dept and the videochip aspects. Apple wants to make money not sell cheap computers. If we dont get a all new philosophy from Apple then we will see a Imac that actually warrants a $2000 plus price. a G4 fx5200 is not a $2000 machine and this is Apples problem.
The "in" thing
I think you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make in my previous post. What I was trying to put across was that something can be the "in thing" in a certain social group and owned by a majority of them but it does not follow that the product can then be considered mainstream. It is just popular within that cartain group. I didn't compare ipods to Mercedes, rather I attempted to illustrate the above point that because something is considered normal/common in one cross section of society, doesn't make it so for the majority.
I know many people of all ages and backgrounds. I work at a school and a university and also work with variety of designers, illustrators and other creative people. So, of all my friends, family and colleagues I know exactly ONE person with an ipod. If they were mainstream then your experience of seeing ipods wherever you look would be repeated everywhere. That's the nature of something being mainstream. MP3 players as a whole however are, in my opinion just starting to become mainstream and Apple's market share will hopefully continue to grow as this progresses.
mcfudd said:I am not trying to discount the elegant design and "coolness" factor of iPods by saying they have become mainstream. Perhaps the disagreement is over the definition of "mainstream" itself.
But, having spent considerable time in Manhattan (and Boston), I can tell you that you will see just as many people listening to iPods riding the subway in Manhattan as you will see "rich yuppy women" listening to their iPod minis in upscale, chic gyms.
In my opinion, when you see one out of ten people on the subway listening to an iPod --- they have become mainstrean --- and not just a plaything of the social elite. This is more than the mindless masses following the next "in" thing.
Also remember, the SOHO Apple store is one of busiest in the nation. There are also thousands of "poor" students (NYU, Columbia, etc.) and "poor" recent grads purchasing iPods.
Perhaps Apple has done something more with the iPod than create the next trend. Maybe they have produced a really great consumer electronics device --- one that people feel $299,$399,$499 is worth the price.
I do not agree with your analogy of an iPod being the same as a Mercedes or Porsche. It is a nice compliment to Jobs however.
And, if the only reason consumers purchase iPods is because they have become the "in" thing (which I only partially agree with), how is that an argument that they are NOT mainstream. I thought that as soon as something becomes the "in" thing it IS mainstream.
I think you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make in my previous post. What I was trying to put across was that something can be the "in thing" in a certain social group and owned by a majority of them but it does not follow that the product can then be considered mainstream. It is just popular within that cartain group. I didn't compare ipods to Mercedes, rather I attempted to illustrate the above point that because something is considered normal/common in one cross section of society, doesn't make it so for the majority.
I know many people of all ages and backgrounds. I work at a school and a university and also work with variety of designers, illustrators and other creative people. So, of all my friends, family and colleagues I know exactly ONE person with an ipod. If they were mainstream then your experience of seeing ipods wherever you look would be repeated everywhere. That's the nature of something being mainstream. MP3 players as a whole however are, in my opinion just starting to become mainstream and Apple's market share will hopefully continue to grow as this progresses.
"Headless iMac" idea?
Not that it matters to me right now, but I wonder if anyone in the Mac moding community has toyed around cannibalizing older iMacs for the LCD's. Then, if a way IS found, the current 17" and 20" iMacs, when they become too "slow" can have their perfectly working LCD's put onto a base of some sort, and allow them to be connected to a G5, etc.
Anyone have any leads to any websites on this topic?
Not that it matters to me right now, but I wonder if anyone in the Mac moding community has toyed around cannibalizing older iMacs for the LCD's. Then, if a way IS found, the current 17" and 20" iMacs, when they become too "slow" can have their perfectly working LCD's put onto a base of some sort, and allow them to be connected to a G5, etc.
Anyone have any leads to any websites on this topic?
i was thinking of getting a RevB PowerMac dual G5 for Audio Production after WWDC , but now all this iMac G5 talk has me considering the iMac.
a 1.8 or 2ghz 20" iMac for $2199 would be awesome, and i wouldn't need a second monitor for viewing VST FX. That 20" widescreen is perfect for what i do. Right now my 867mhz PB almost cuts the mustard, but i could use more processor power for 1 more multiband VST in realtime... i think a 1.8 would do the job. Plus, i'll be moving the studio into a nice newly remodeled loft space downtown, and a stylish iMac (even with a design revamp) would certainly fit in alot more than a G5 tower and my clunky 17" flat CRT..
please apple... G5 1.8ghz 20" iMac for $2199. pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.
oh , and an option to downgrade to combo drive for -$200..
a 1.8 or 2ghz 20" iMac for $2199 would be awesome, and i wouldn't need a second monitor for viewing VST FX. That 20" widescreen is perfect for what i do. Right now my 867mhz PB almost cuts the mustard, but i could use more processor power for 1 more multiband VST in realtime... i think a 1.8 would do the job. Plus, i'll be moving the studio into a nice newly remodeled loft space downtown, and a stylish iMac (even with a design revamp) would certainly fit in alot more than a G5 tower and my clunky 17" flat CRT..
please apple... G5 1.8ghz 20" iMac for $2199. pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.
oh , and an option to downgrade to combo drive for -$200..
This pizza box always confuses me, it sounds like we are going to the old school days with the monitor on the case. Is it suppose to resemble an Xserve or something? And why would someone want to hang a computer on the wall?murphtall said:It may happen, if you think different. Headless was described to me to be a g5 in a 'pizza box' with a flat screen laying on top of it, IE 'headless'. I was actually told it could be hung from a wall, like a photo. . .
~KM
Dr. Dastardly said:
That's kinda what I was thinking, headless, and clusterable! Stack em up to the roof. Is that what piles were really all about?
Borg3of5 said:
I agree tha 75hz is quite low, however at 1024X768 100hz it is rock solid and stable, that's the rez that most schools use, the Emac is razor sharp and stable, and is actually better than the 15" Imac screen in all areas, except brightness which is mute cause you have to turn it down, and contrast by a just little bit, and of course ergonomics.
Color is better, response times is better, dot pitch is better, viewing angles are better, non native rez's are better, text is better, blacks and greys are better, not to mention it is 25% faster and comes with a superdrive, unlike the $1299 Combo equipped Imac and the screen has no dead or stuck pixels and is more durable, and the Emac does not take up much more space the the Imac, unfortunately it lacks style or color, I would love one and blue or graphite with 64MB video ram and a PCcard slot.. One could by a 17" LCD and use a hack to span the monitors and still comeout less than the 15" Imac.
I am thinking the next Imac may get the 15.2" powerbook display, like the powerbook got the 17" Imac display.
Imac IPipe Dream!
you get what you pay for, but now you will have a choice of what you pay for. $1099 1.8 G5 Imac 64MB video combo, $1299 Superdrive model
128MB video $100 option
15.2" Pivoting Wide screen and ergonomic display arm $349
17" Pivoting Wide screen and ergonomic display arm $499
these displays will bring Imac G4 screen ergonomics to all pc and mac users for a fair price and make Apple a serious contender in the LCD race.
Extras, bluetooth, airport, gigabyte ethernet, firewire 800 pc or pci card, fibre channel for clustering, etc.
Pipe dream I know, now back to reality, flame On!!
That would be a great selling point, if the Iapps and pro apps used clustering for distributed computing. Need more power to your emac or G5 or ibook or powerbook, just buy a screen-less Imac, need a screen, just plug in your existing dvi or VGA screen, want an all in one Imac, then buy it with Apple's custom pivoting screen and arm witch attach on top of the Imac ala Imac G4 for a custom modular all in one look, and can be used with other computers with dvi/vga when sold or traded later apart from the computer, very modular, customizable, and expandable, AGP graphics and 1PCI and one PC card slot.Dessert Whip said:
you get what you pay for, but now you will have a choice of what you pay for. $1099 1.8 G5 Imac 64MB video combo, $1299 Superdrive model
128MB video $100 option
15.2" Pivoting Wide screen and ergonomic display arm $349
17" Pivoting Wide screen and ergonomic display arm $499
these displays will bring Imac G4 screen ergonomics to all pc and mac users for a fair price and make Apple a serious contender in the LCD race.
Extras, bluetooth, airport, gigabyte ethernet, firewire 800 pc or pci card, fibre channel for clustering, etc.
Pipe dream I know, now back to reality, flame On!!
daveg5 said:
That's actually a neat idea. When I bought my first stereo, that was one of the selling points: if you need more power later, just link it with a power amp; need more power still, add another. It was a Nad receiver and it had a connection on the back called Mono Link. (This was back in '94. Maybe this feature is common these days.)
Squire
Squire said:
Funny how it's a neat idea now, but when I was pushing the use of networked consumer computing, people were calling me a dreamer. For quite some time, I've been a proponent of the idea that Apple could push the field beyond the traditional paradigm of home users having a single box in front of them. My old posts are rife with speculation about xGrid, xSan, Apple Remote Desktop, network storage, and nodes in a home cluster.
I think this could really work for people who have more than one user in the home, especially since you could buy enough to get by, then expand it later when your needs grow and the market advances. Apple introduced the idea of computing for the rest of us.
Why not supercomputing for the rest of us?
thatwendigo said:
supercomputing for the rest of us,,, you might want to copyright that one... sounds very apple, i acctually have always thought that you have a very good point when talking about linking the home up...
say if you have a powermac for the family computer a younger son and daughter with imacs and a collage student son with a powerbook...link them together and you have a lot of power..
just remember, the ammount of other people that have been called dreamers and have changed the world around... credit for sticking with your guns..
AL-FAMOUS said:
Thing is, I've done it for the relatively useless task of calculating the Mandelbrot set. When the xGrid tech demo emerged from Apple, I went over to my dad's and brought along my two computers to drop onto the network. I had a "cluster" consisting of a 1.4ghz G4 tower, an 800mhz G4 iMac, a 700mhz G4 eMac, a 600mhz G3 iBook, and a 500mhz G3 iBook. Sure, it wouldn't do a whole lot for something like gaming, especially since two of them machines were on 802.11b and the rest were on 10/100 Ethernet, but it could probably speed up things like DVD rips, MP3 encoding, DVD encoding, and other long-term tasks where it could be parceled out.
Apple already does this in the professional sector, and Tiger has Xgrid built-in. Am I the only one to notice it was there, bold as day, but not talked about at all?
I love the Think Different ad, and I've been known to throw it at people who claim I'm thinking too far ahead. Apple hasn't lead the industry this long by being passive, nor have they inspired so many other designers by not pushing for changes.
I may not be proven right now, or even at another time, but the fact of the matter remains... Apple has the pieces, right now, to start a push towards client computing in the home.
Bring back the Cube I say. Take the iBook's guts, replace the 2.5" HD with a 5.25" drive, add a DVI port instead of the mini-VGA, and fold it into the Cube case. You SHOULD be able to save some money by taking out the LCD and using cheaper HD, optical drive, etc. It would be a minimal investment on Apple's part. All the pieces are there. I just don't understand why Apple is sitting on all that great R&D and not doing anything with it.mojohanna said:
G4 Cube 1.25 ghz Combo = 799
G4 Cube 1.50 ghz Super = 1099
These things would fly off the shelves. Start the specs really modest, but allow people BTO the graphics card, bluetooth, wireless keyboard, speakers, etc. like Dell lets you do. Lure them in with a low entry, but make your money off the add-ons.