paxtonandrew said:
The reason that Apple is still running as a company, is the fact of the all-in-one style of the iMac. The sheer invebtivness of the iMac saved Apple from closure, and the look is a classic one. A headless iMac will never be a REAL iMac, but some PMG(4,5) for consumer use, Apple will never stand for this, but a new computer, with the consumer marketability of a PC (Computer in one box, monitor seperate, and a PC competing price (consumer level) will do well)
I agree. Apple could call it G5 LC to hark back to the original Mac LC, which was a low cost desktop in a slimline enclosure. All some of us really need is a Combo drive or a Superdrive in today's age, and if we want a Zip we can get that via USB/USB2/Firewire. Give me a video card capable of supporting Tiger's Core Image/Video technologies at a reasonable level, and Firewire 800, 400, and USB2. I could care less about anything else, as most of the upgrading I'd need is in those arenas anymore. After all by the time a processor upgrade would come out, the bus and video and other areas would render upgrades moot because that's the arena most computer companies are tackling hardcore now.
I wouldn't say "Apple will never stand for this" because they did in the past. If they didn't, the all-in-one nature of the original Macintosh line would've never spawned the LC to begin with. After all, Apple has released better technologies, i.e. ADC, and renigged in favor of what the people refer to as "the standard", such as DVI. Not to mention being better can be perceived in multiple ways. Either being better and not having better sales, or being as good as one can be with good technologies and innovative one's in various areas, and having better sales. Apple moving the displays to DVI is a smart move, now PC users can buy them at their current Apple premium costs without shelling out even more for an ADC -> DVI adapter over the already premium cost one will spend in obtaining one of those sexy monitors. It might cost more than a comparable PC monitor at those sizes, if there is a comparable PC monitor, but no PC monitor looks as sexy. At least right now.
Apple, give us a LC headless system... and I'll upgrade to a brand new machine with APP. Otherwise... Small Dog will get my $ on a used machine, or I'll have to wait for a refurb 1st gen. G5 from the Apple Deals portion of the Apple store. I don't really think I need PCI or PCI-X with the advance of technologies built-in to the G5's mainboard. Give me a decent video card capable of driving a 17-23" LCD or CRT that works with Core Image/Core Video. If I have that... I'll have no room/need to complain. 1.6-1.8-2 Ghz. with a Single Processor is fine (note, those are yesterday's processor #'s because I figure the costs on production could be less, but who knows), after all we don't need more than that in this area or we'd all buy desktop G5's. I figure the above is good enough for a $999/1,299/1,499 computer with BTO options for stuff such as video (possibly give an option for the 30" LCD's video card) and Combo or Super drives.
Those who'll pine for a PCI/PCI-X slot (or 2, or 3, or 4) are just wanting a full-on G5 machine for less $. I'd like a G5 machine for less $, but I'd settle for last generation's speed in a new machine with certain features the average user doesn't need being gutted. That's pretty much how PC mfg.'s work... in that what once was bleeding edge Athlon XP is now filling the gap of what once was the Duron's core market, the low-cost computer segment whereas the Athlon 64 line has replaced the XP. Apple's done this with the G4 as it transitions everything over to the G5. I presume lesser G5 processors will eventually replace the G4, and probably as quickly as Apple can get IBM to do it.
I won't argue that the machines are expensive... but for what you get and how it's constructed, I don't think $1,799 is ludicrous; I just don't have the $ to drop on that. I just wished that for those of us "less hardcore" there was a new option that wasn't through the roof, and something that could shove the resale values on older hardware down. In some cases a used G4 a generation or more old is MORE EXPENSIVE than the brand new G4's Apple has been selling or is trying to sell stock out of on the Apple site. Why buy used when you can get a newer machine with factory warranty and be eligible for 3-years of APP? Who wants to drop a ton of $ on a used machine only to have it die after 90 days of warranty expire?
The resale values make this platform seem great, but it keeps a lot of computers' out of people's hands who would likely ante up or buy one to fiddle with (i.e. PC users; I've got PC using friends that'd love to buy one as a second computer but can't fathom the costs to jump in) if the cost of entry wasn't so ridiculous that machines 4 generations old are costing more than some junky new PC's 2x's as fast, and honestly... aren't up to par competitively even if they're still usable to some extent. Then again, so is a TRS-80 if you want to take the time to input BASIC code all day and create something usable out of it. No matter how you shake a stick at it, the facts don't lie, and it doesn't help the Mac build marketshare by having a wealth of used cheap costing entry hardware for people to dive into and toy with while debating over buying a new or newer machine.
I don't think we need to radically cut costs (the LC idea, as noted above, would do it's job)... but we just need to generate some semblance of obsolescence, as even the eMac is a better deal than some of the used G4's (i.e. a 450 Mhz. G4 for $999? Are you on crack?!? I can get a 1 Ghz.+ machine for $1,299! The cost of an aftermarket upgrade would push it past $1,299 to have a comparable machine with a slower system bus, lesser video, and more bottlenecks and age; the RAM upgrades aren't worth it, and hard drives are reasonably cheap) floating around on the 'net. If it didn't have a monitor tethered to it, I'd likely had an eMac based machine a year ago.
I've owned Macs since 1994, have had a 7100, 7200PC, multiple 8500's, 9600 (currently on with a 700 Mhz. G4 from Sonnet which is very usable, and I
lucked into the purchase at a time when they sold for $600 I bought it from a computer place that had no clue as to the value of it and cut me a price I couldn't believe; that's farrrrrrrrr more the exception than the rule), 7500, et. al and I can honestly say that the moving away from a consumer desktop has hurt their sales to me. The iMac doesn't allow me to buy a reasonably cheaper desktop with a bigger monitor from somewhere else, whether a used or refurb model, or from another vendor altogether. Granted, Apple looks at it as losing a monitor sale if you do that... but would they rather lose the whole sale? Who knows, if I save enough $ I might replace my CRT monitor with an LCD from them. The current CRT I use is an Apple-branded monitor.
I'm not saying kill the iMac... but give it a chance Apple. I figure if you push out a G5 iMac, the motherboard from that would likely fit in a slimline enclosure capable of supporting our needs. If only even in 1 configuration... although the traditional good, better, best model is more preferred... I'm sure you'd see a reward for the attempt if the costs can be cut enough to make it viable. A 1.6 Ghz. G5 would suit me handily, I assure you.
