iGary said:
That looks quite good
. Added as well.It looks very sad, I love sad movies
._Emerson
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GayWay - the gay and lesbian discussion (aka. Any Gays here?)
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That looks quite good
. Added as well.It looks very sad, I love sad movies
._Emerson
Zaid said:
I was gone all weekend and this thread moves so fast that I am probably responding to something that is so old, no one remembers it.
)Anyhow my take is that there are some people that don't come out because their choices in life or their career is not compatible. Imagine a person that would be in my position. The US Military does not allow a person to come out. They allow gays to serve, but they can't mention their sexuality or they are done. What if they really like their job and don't want to loose it to make a point? How about a teacher in a small town that also likes their job? I can promise if they don't have tenure they will be done. They just won't re-new their contract for the following year. They don't have to even give a reason. If the teacher has tenure it can be more difficult, but in that case if they get ready to RIF, which many schools are, you know who is going. Why is it like this? I don't know many people out there think that a gay person is going to mess with their kids or something like that even though it is not true.
I think a lot of people in the large cities think nothing of coming out because it won't cost them their life. I mean think of it, if a person was gay and had a great career would they give it all up and flip burgers at a McDonald's just to tell everyone what their sexuality is? I know many would say they could just move away to another place, but what if they don't want to do that. I would not blame someone for being in the closet if this were their case. As long as they are not lying to themselves about who they are, (for example get married, etc.) I think they can be happy in life.
I would agree that I look at this issue differently then you guys do, but still I think you need to give people in these situations more credit then just saying they are weak. It should not matter to anyone. I don't care who is gay because as I always judge them on the person they are not who they choose to love. The old saying is true, you never know someone's life until you walk a mile in their shoes.
Sounds like the perfect alternative to 'mainstream' religious beliefs. I've read about Wicca on Wikipedia and it definitely is a very liberal religion. The fact that it accepts and welcomes GLBTs is also a good thing.slooksterPSV said:
I was wondering, how do you get involved? I mean, do you participate at any rituals or follow Wiccan rules in real life? Sorry to be too pushy (and hope I'm not asking about anything too personal), but this sounds interesting
.
Abercrombieboy said:
While I agree that it's not a black and white issue, I'd hate to work at a place that would fire me for being gay, so I wouldn't want to work there in the first place. I think coming out is very beneficial to the closeted man in almost any situation, even if he gets disowned, fired, etc. It feels so damned good to be out of the closet when you've been in it for so long. It's a fulfillment that cannot be described, and it transcends a yearning for money or success.
So, while I don't think closeted people are weak, I do think some of them underestimate the fulfillment of being out to the world. It's a thousand pounds off your shoulders and it's a hundred times more fulfilling than any job is, I would think.
_Emerson
scem0 said:
I guess it depends, life can sure take a turn for the worse if you get fired and disowned. As far as being more fulfilling then any job? I guess that depends on how the person views their job. Do they truly love what they do? Do they get excited everyday they go to work and feel like they are really making a difference in the world? All I can say is all people are different. Some people would be happier to come out and loose everything else, where another person would ruin everything that was important to them. I am not saying you are wrong, I just think all people are in different situations that's all.
for sure. There are lots of situations in which staying in the closet is a good idea. The first that comes to mind is if it means that college funding will be taken away.
_Emerson
_Emerson
I surely have the best of all. Apart from the pain factor and often being stuck at home due to illness. I have come out to this list and made many friends in doing so. I can give others access to my experiences, both the good and the bad. Offer advice and not worry too much if it is accepted or not. I can call on the list, when I'm a bit down and out.scem0 said:
I came upon this thread at post 763, and it took me until post 1175 and a hell of a lot of courage to hit the send, and my first opus was on it's way. We are now in the 3,600's and the thread is showing no sign of slowing. This illustrates how y'all can really pull together (and no, not mutual masturbation) support each other, and know there is an available shoulder to cry on should you need it. Moreover, know that nearly every posted comment is well received and welcomed by the nucleus of posters here.
What other thread can boast this. We should all be proud of our diversity and our oneness.
Kevin
aka Grey Beard
Myself, personally, I don't. Others do, they go to covens and that. Sometimes I'll cast a protection spell when I need it but other than that I just read up on it and that.noaccess said:Sounds like the perfect alternative to 'mainstream' religious beliefs. I've read about Wicca on Wikipedia and it definitely is a very liberal religion. The fact that it accepts and welcomes GLBTs is also a good thing.
I was wondering, how do you get involved? I mean, do you participate at any rituals or follow Wiccan rules in real life? Sorry to be too pushy (and hope I'm not asking about anything too personal), but this sounds interesting
Grey Beard said:
The whole gay mafia thing was a joke, but I really do regard y'all as a second family. I started posting in this thread heavily right when I came to New York and left my biological family, so it was fitting for me to create this cyber family. I know that this thread has changed me, it has made me more honest about myself. I don't really believe in redefinition, but I do believe in change. Although this thread hasn't redefined who I am, it has been a catalyst for change in my life. I'm glad I have a group of fine people who will listen to whatever I have to say and will reply with my interests in heart. I feel that what we have is a pure, untarnished interest for the wellbeing of one another. I'd call that love, whatever that means. So, I love our gay little family and I love each and every one of you in your own ways.
With hugs all around,
_Emerson
I also see it as essential to the promotion of gay rights that as many gays as possible are proud and out. I think most of my views have been expressed here. Be yourself if you can, but not at all cost.
I would like to give my take on the romance at the workplace issue. If I really saw the potential for finding "true love" at the workplace, I wouldn't hesitate to go for it. No job, well at least not any that I can imagine, is that important. One-night stands and flings are not worth the risk, though. None of these were an issue in my case, but the discussion brought it up, so there you have it.
Zaid, how are things now between you and this guy at work you got so well along with?
I would like to give my take on the romance at the workplace issue. If I really saw the potential for finding "true love" at the workplace, I wouldn't hesitate to go for it. No job, well at least not any that I can imagine, is that important. One-night stands and flings are not worth the risk, though. None of these were an issue in my case, but the discussion brought it up, so there you have it.
Zaid, how are things now between you and this guy at work you got so well along with?
gekko513 said:
Which one? The one whose bed i ended up in after a night of particularly excessive drunkeness and awoke to find him spooning me?
Great, he's one of my best friends. He's straight (possibly bi) but that incident never affected our relationship. We don't 'never talk about it'. Its sort of a little private joke between us
Abercrombieboy I realise it's not easy. And it certainly isn't always as clear cut as i made it out to be. The (US) military is a special situation because it allows legalised discrimination. (other armed forces of course don't, The British, french, german, sweedish, spanish, etc all alow gay men and women to serve and even give full partner benefits. )
It is not really a good idea for a serving member of the US armed forces to be out. However, once gay soldiers leave the armed forces, they should come out. They should show that gay men can serve and have served and have protected the sorry arses of conservative bigots who refuse to recognise their right to exist.
Teachers on the other hand i think should be out. If people stay closted, attitudes will never change. However i do agree with you, it's not always clear cut. Yes it's an ideal that we should stive for, And personally i wouldn't be able to work somewhere i had to remain closeted. But if someone is going to lose their jobs and careers or be forced to move, maybe that is too high a price. However the situation just isn't going to change until someone makes a stand.
I recognise that for us in large urban centres it is easier to be out. Much easier. And yes in small rural areas it can be very difficult. And sometimes it may come at too high a cost.
I know not everyone would be willing to make the sacrifice that may be required to come out. And i can respect that. You have to choose your battles. The way i see it though, the generation before us went through hell to allow us to have the freedom that we have. I firmly believe that it is our duty to do the same for the next generation. Destroying discrimination one attitude at a time.
For instance I'm not out to most of my family, especially the older ones. They belong to really conservative comunities where religion play's a very big part of their lives. For most of them there would be no point. Some like my grandparents would simply not understand. And i'm not being condescending toward them, they would not understand. So i see no point in telling them.
What i am trying to do is come out to the younger members of my family. My cousins and younger uncles and aunts. This is i think where me coming out can make the biggest difference. If they accept me, then if they have gay kids they are far more likely to be supportive toward them.
When i was struggling with coming out, I read a short story that profoundly influenced my attitudes toward coming out. I can't remember who the author was, or the tiltle of the story, but the gist of it was that if every gay man and woman developed a blue dot on their foreheads, all discrimination against gays would disappear because people would realise that gay men and women, were their brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, mothers, fathers, friends, etc... It's something i firmly believe. Attitudes will not change until people are confronted with the truth. That gay men and women are out there in every facet of daily life.
Zaid said:
Whilst gay and lesbian Defence force members have been allowed here in Australia since the early nineties... they have not been given any benefits for their partners... NOW! Was announced recently that from 1 Dec 05 they can apply for recognitioin of the "inter-dependent" relationship.
With our government openly anti same sex marriage and even changed legislation to prevent it - this latest move is HUGE!
Having said that though - there is still a range of homophobia in the Defence Force as well as our wider communities...
I am a firm believer in each to their own... and in their own time.
No one should feel forced, pressured, or influenced to "come out", be political, be overt, or change who they believe they want to be.
DJY said:
Contradictory as this may sound, i largely agree with that. I don't believe in 'outing' people against their will. In our society being gay still can and does cause problems and it has to be a choice made by the person themselves.
I do howver believe that it is a choice we all have a duty to make. And that we should try and convince (though not coerce) closeted gay people we know to come out.
But yes, it is a private descision.
Abercrombieboy said:
I'm sorry, but I think anybody who puts their career before their personal life is missing out on a lot. I came out during the Reagan years. Not fun. I've posted my coming out story before and I'm not going to do it again, but suffice to say it REALLY sucked. What I will say is at my lowest point, I was homeless, sleeping on the couches of any friends who would have me. Was it worth it in order to live an honest life? Hell yes. Do I think people who don't come out are weak? I'm sorry but after what I went through, I can't help feeling that they are. I realize eveyone's different. Fine. Your life is what you make of it.
Zaid said:
Agreed.
scem0 said:Just added it
I just went to Macy's with a friend and boy did I feel out of place. There are some things in life that I'll never understand and spending $300+ on a bag is one of those things. I lean to the trashy side, if I had all the money in the world I'd still go to Young Chow and get their two dollar hot and sour soup
_Emerson
I agree. About the only thing I'll pay $100 for is a good pair of Aldos, and that's only once every 2 1/2 years.
Anything else, I have to find on sale.scem0 said:Lee! Where the hell have you been? I was starting to get worried
_Emerson
Oh- I met some friends out yesterday. I wasn't home at all! I can't always be on MR.
scem0 said:completely unacceptable. I disapprove.
_Emerson
Then you'll just have to disapprove then.
BTW- looks like early to mid-December for my visit, maybe the 8th to the 11th.
If you want to reply to multiple posts, please, do it in one reply. Not a separate post for every reply one minute apart from each other. Its getting tiresome for all of us having to come in here and keep tidying up, if it continues to be time consuming in this way, thatll have be the end of it.
edesignuk said:
Oops- I assume you mean me. Sorry, but I didn't even know it was a problem edesignuk.
I will, I will.
Tell Noah to keep up the good work. The Patrick and Noah show, aka. PNSExplosion (I like their old name better), has gotten a lot better since you first got me listening. I absolutely love Starquisha (sp.)
._Emerson
scem0 said:I will, I will.
Tell Noah to keep up the good work. The Patrick and Noah show, aka. PNSExplosion (I like their old name better), has gotten a lot better since you first got me listening. I absolutely love Starquisha (sp.)
_Emerson
Oh- they liked your audio comment, BTW. I'll tell Noah right now, he's my co-worker. Also, if you look on the Bangor Films website, you'll notice that Noah was also in Anonymous with me.
I think he's really found his niche with the podcasting thing though.- Status