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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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Maybe in the shorter term they will make money but, in the long term, their sales will dry up after nobody will buy one. Even in the short term, these returns / service visits must be killing profits. It's no wonder why Apple announced that they were going to stop reporting sales numbers in their quarterly reports.
Apple needs to stop having industrial designers drive the projects. Design a good product and then make what you have look better.
I refuse to do a DIY procedure on a new 3000+€ laptop. It's just not right. Plus I do get the satisfaction that Apple will have exorbitant expenses with these topcase replacements, where for a measly key malfunction they need to replace half of the machine. Did that 4 times already and will continoue doing so. In the meanwhile I will get an old pre-2016 MBP as a backup.
I mean just think about it - for a crazy expensive laptop we are buying compressed air to "try" to fix a keyboard design flaw. It has really come to this...
Personally I don't trust iCloud. Not for security reasons, but it feels half-done compared to Google Drive or Dropbox. No robust sharing, impossible to use 3rd party apps (Synology)... I do use it for niche stuff, like syncing Keynote presentations (yet I still keep a backup on Dropbox).
Lately I've gotten extremly careful when selecting new core services (Cloud, email, etc.). First question though is - how is my data exportable. With Apple the answer is usually - not very easily. For this reason alone I refuse to use Apple Photos.
Apple will simply loose ever more of it's professional userbase, baring those absolutely tied to macOS. When ones income is tied to the hardware such poor designs and lack of appropriate action can and does impact significantly. Those willing to pay the price will simply pay more for less with a bias more focused towards the aesthetic.
No doubt the cost of the returns is significant, equally Apple will likely pass it on to the customer by increasing the base cost and or it's already obscenely priced upgrades. Apple doesn't want to illustrate increased profits versus reduced sales for one very obvious reason; the customer is paying more. Easy answer stop delivering such metrics, you can also guarantee Apple wont be disclosing the number of it's professional users either anymore, as it desperately needs to keep the illusion of Mac's being "Pro" to make it's base customers feel better about the exorbitant pricing.
The Mac needs to revert to the best Apple can design and produce, not maximal margins above all else. Ultimately Apple is so deep in this now I doubt we will see a Mac that's not compromised one way or the other as Apple is mostly selling a brand these days...
Q-6
I think this is actually very true. When I did my masters degree at my uni, not a single person who had a 2015 MBP wanted to upgrade to the newer models. Less battery life, worse keyboard, fewer ports and no MagSafe for more $$$? No thank you.
I also see that a lot with popular YouTubers - not talking about professional video editors, of course. I really like personal development channels like Thomas Frank or Brendon Burchard. Both surprisingly still use the 2015 models, even though they have more than enough money for the upgrades. Just shows how much credibility the new MBPs have lost as "pro" machines.
I wholeheartedly agree. There was a time when you purchased Apple products because they "just worked" you rely on them to provide years of service, could be passed down to the kids, etc. They just kept on working until you got tired of them.
These current models, people on their 4th? 5th? 6th? and still having issues. Butterfail keyboards, screen uniformity issues, T2 issues, etc. This isn't what Apple was about and these aren't the types of cost-cutting failures and shortcoming you would expect from an Apple product. It is a bit of a sad time to be an Apple fan. I am really disappointed in the current quality and issues these new machines are having. I would like to think that Apple will right the ship with the next design overhaul, but there is nothing to indicate that they will.
I am even losing faith in the Mac Pro making up for Apples admitted failure with the previous design. You would think with the admission and the time it is taking for them to release a replacement that it would be extraordinary. But I have a bad feeling it will be more compromise in the name of profit and disappoint. We shall see.
After all these years, I can now say that the butterfly keyboard and Touch Bar concept failed miserably.
Or they were not upto the Apple standard.
1. Butterfly keyboard reliability should have been fixed.
2. Touch Bar should have been an addition to physical function keys.
Or they were not upto the Apple standard.
1. Butterfly keyboard reliability should have been fixed.
2. Touch Bar should have been an addition to physical function keys.
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Apple doesn't admit to making mistakes. So they will never go back to the old keyboard. They will give you the tired line of, you are using it wrong, or you don't understand, we are engineers and are right you're wrong.
Same keyboard design until Apple redesigns the case and what are chances they go thicker.
I think Apple will eventually go with a touchscreen keyboard.
This whole keyboard thing is such a bummer. I have a 2014 MBA that is great, and I would love to update it someday to a newer MBA. But, I just don't want to deal with these keyboard issues. I have a couple of more years of life in my current MBA, so hope Apple gets this resolved in the meantime.
I really like MacOS and the whole ecosystem/integration with my iPhone, so maybe I will resort to getting a desktop Mac as a replacement for my MBA, which spends a fair amount of time in clamshell mode anyway. I already have the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
I really like MacOS and the whole ecosystem/integration with my iPhone, so maybe I will resort to getting a desktop Mac as a replacement for my MBA, which spends a fair amount of time in clamshell mode anyway. I already have the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
since the iphone got thicker over the past 3 years...there are chances
The keyboard issues are overblown. Everything on MacRumors is doom and gloom.
The biggest issue is if you like the super flat typing experience. That's a lot more likely to determine how happy you are with your MBA than reliability problems. You can't tell if you like the new keyboard's feel in one sitting though. You really need to own it and get used to it. It grows on a lot of people who didn't like it at first. If you're ready for a new MBA, just get one and try it out for 10 days and return it if you can't get used to the keyboard.
I’m about to buy a 2018 machine and the way Apple is headed with their laptop line this might be the last Apple computer I buy. I can’t see myself spending 4K in 6 years for a stripped down pro machine. If they are still making them at that point.
The keyboard issues are not overblown. 4/4 of my collegues that own 2016-2017 MBP had already the keyboard replaced at least once. Never seen this kind of an issue on Apple devices in terms how often it happens.
I've never seen anything like this with any notebook from any brand. Apple needs to dial down it's arrogance, admit that the issue is prevalent and start designing hardware properly. Problem being we all know from experience that isn't going to happen, as Apple is all too happy to take the $$$$ and leave it's customers to get on with once again...
Q-6
In 6 years?
There is a good chance that by that time you will not need a Laptop at all!
“In 6 years” fewer people will be shopping for MacBook Pro’s because there will be fewer jobs that require those MacBooks. Automation, robotization, recession, AI, etc.
Apple focusing on iPhones and iPad reminds me about IBM selling their laptop division to the Chinese. People thought it was crazy, but it was not.
How can you even say it’s overblown at this stage? I understood back in 2016 post release there were a lot of die hard Apple fans denying it back then, but now?
I would argue the people that are in those jobs don't need MacBook Pros now. For the rest of the creatives there will still be a need, but will Apple still be filling that need.In 6 years?
There is a good chance that by that time you will not need a Laptop at all!
“In 6 years” fewer people will be shopping for MacBook Pro’s because there will be fewer jobs that require those MacBooks. Automation, robotization, recession, AI, etc.
Apple focusing on iPhones and iPad reminds me about IBM selling their laptop division to the Chinese. People thought it was crazy, but it was not.
I agree it's not gonna happen and I also think this arrogance will turn into Apple's second decline. I don't care if Apple is going to admit they made a mistake, I want them to solve those issues. They can make up some story why the new MBP is thicker, I don’t care.
But it seems they made a very bad move with the butterfly keyboard. For example the bendgate was "easy to solve". They just used different material and a little different internal structure. But with the butterfly keyboard it looks like it's unsolvable without major redesign and that's the reason why the issue it's still there. I can imagine how the hardware guys in Apple are pushing the management to allow a redesign, but the management is against it.
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They make more profit from out of warranty repair and Apple Care + (+co-pays) than they do on the machines I am guessing.
When I say it's overblown, I don't mean that it's a non-issue. I definitely think it's an issue, but I mean that it's not as big of an issue as you would expect from reading the constant bickering on here.
It's overblown on MacRumors. Some people here think the failure rate is over 50%, but you almost never hear from people who aren't having issues and those of us who aren't having any problems from 2016 onward get really tired of explaining why we don't have any problems. You never hear from us so it sounds like everyone who owns a MBP has a keyboard issue.
A number that was shared around here a while back was that likely around 5% of the keyboards were problematic, which to lots of people sounds like too small of a number, but in the world of statistics and manufacturing, 5% is a massive problem that requires an urgent response. Still, the chances that you simply won't like the keyboard is higher than you getting a bum keyboard.
I have a 2016. I've had some problems too, but they resolved and actually got better once I broke the keyboard in. I had the same issues intermittently for the first year I had my MBP but none in the last year.