Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

[SDColorado]

...but you almost never hear from people who aren't having issues and those of us who aren't having any problems...

You also don't hear from people who don't post on forums or don't subscribe to MacRumors for any number of reasons, which I am sure is a far greater number of MacBook Pro owners than those who do post. While we have no idea what percentage of those who don't post are having issues and don't come here to post about it, I think it can be argued that it is a two-way street.

I think the number of people who have had at least one model with a keyboard failure and those who have had 3, 4, 5, 6 models in a row with keyboard failures, coupled with in-store display models that have exhibited keyboard problems, would suggest the number is higher than 5%.

I heartily agree with you that it isn't over 50%, but I would likewise be shocked if anyone could show evidence that it is at 5% or lower.

 

[Ma2k5]

When I say it's overblown, I don't mean that it's a non-issue. I definitely think it's an issue, but I mean that it's not as big of an issue as you would expect from reading the constant bickering on here.

It's overblown on MacRumors. Some people here think the failure rate is over 50%, but you almost never hear from people who aren't having issues and those of us who aren't having any problems from 2016 onward get really tired of explaining why we don't have any problems. You never hear from us so it sounds like everyone who owns a MBP has a keyboard issue.

A number that was shared around here a while back was that likely around 5% of the keyboards were problematic, which to lots of people sounds like too small of a number, but in the world of statistics and manufacturing, 5% is a massive problem that requires an urgent response. Still, the chances that you simply won't like the keyboard is higher than you getting a bum keyboard.

I have a 2016. I've had some problems too, but they resolved and actually got better once I broke the keyboard in. I had the same issues intermittently for the first year I had my MBP but none in the last year.

Who thinks the failure rate is 50%?

I don’t think it is overblown for people to complain that they suffered it multiple times, which is just unacceptable because these are not old machines. When people are getting these issues within a week or a month, that’s is a design failure.

You remember when Note 7’s exploded and they recalled it? How many incidents of the explosions do you think happened? Less than 0.1% but a design flaw is a design flaw.

I’m just saying, I’ve seen a figure of around 11% somewhere which itself is too big of a number. If we took actual Apple data, who knows how many really are affected (but they won’t let us know). The fact they have a repair program already means it’s a huge issue - and it is disgusting that EVEN after that, they made a 3rd gen which doesn’t resolve it.

Even Acer wouldn’t do that.

The truth is (imo), unlike other manufacturers, a lot of people who have issues go to a store to get it resolved and it doesn’t get mentioned in the public domain. This forum undersells how big the issue is. I remember back in 2016 before the repair program - how people where saying there is no issue and this forum is overblowing it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

When I say it's overblown, I don't mean that it's a non-issue. I definitely think it's an issue, but I mean that it's not as big of an issue as you would expect from reading the constant bickering on here.

It's overblown on MacRumors. Some people here think the failure rate is over 50%, but you almost never hear from people who aren't having issues and those of us who aren't having any problems from 2016 onward get really tired of explaining why we don't have any problems. You never hear from us so it sounds like everyone who owns a MBP has a keyboard issue.

A number that was shared around here a while back was that likely around 5% of the keyboards were problematic, which to lots of people sounds like too small of a number, but in the world of statistics and manufacturing, 5% is a massive problem that requires an urgent response. Still, the chances that you simply won't like the keyboard is higher than you getting a bum keyboard.

I have a 2016. I've had some problems too, but they resolved and actually got better once I broke the keyboard in. I had the same issues intermittently for the first year I had my MBP but none in the last year.

All I know is that, in my circle of friends and co-workers, up until the 2016+ models I knew absolutely nobody who'd had any issue with their Mac's essentially "ever".

Anyone I know with a 2016+ machine has either had a keyboard replaced or had stuck keys at some point. Some have freed up eventually or with cleaning and others (like my spouse's) simply haven't been taken in for a fix yet (for a variety of time/hassle reasons).

They took a formerly "essentially nobody had any issues" part (keyboard) and made it a huge point of concern.
That's disastrous design IMO.

 

[SDColorado]

Even Acer wouldn’t do that.

Samsung might, but that would likely be on one of their sub-$600 Samsung plus machines. A Macbook Pro costing several thousand should be expected to be more durable than a Samsung Plus.

 

[smirking]

Who thinks the failure rate is 50%?

I'm exaggerating, but some people act like that's the case.

This forum undersells how big the issue is. I remember back in 2016 before the repair program - how people where saying there is no issue and this forum is overblowing it.

We talking about the same MacRumors? I don't know the people who hang out here to undersell anything.

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All I know is that, in my circle of friends and co-workers, up until the 2016+ models I knew absolutely nobody who'd had any issue with their Mac's essentially "ever".

I've had plenty of issues with my Macs. Back when PowerMax was around, I used to religiously trade in my Mac around four years because I've had several completely fail between the 4th and 5th year. I didn't have much faith that my Macs would last me much longer than 4 years. Apple didn't just suddenly become falliable. They always have been.

I've also had ones that lasted forever too though. I have a 2009 and 2012 MBP, but both have required repairs to get to this point. Incidentally, I hate the keyboard on those even though they're reliable. I know I'm in the minority, but give me a butterfly keyboard anyday.

 

[537635]

Based on my issues and numerous topcase (keep in mind that this is not a repair, it's a brand new keyboard) replacements, experiences from my colleagues and failing demo machines I've seen, not only do I think that failure rate is 50% - I believe that during the lifespan of a device (let's say 5 years) the failure rate is 100%.

Some say that they needed to break the keyboard in. Seriously, it has come to this? We have a 3+k laptop and it is so fancy and advanced that the keyboard needs to be broken in?


Keep in mind that repeating keys and occasional key drops do not mean that laptop is useless for most of the users. You can still comfortably use it for contect consumption, You can still use it with an external keyboard. Some people don't even notice this stuff and just think it's an user error while typing.
I am sure Apple will also implement some kind of "Unshaky" software and even further mitigate this.

But yes, I believe that if you used this Macbook. ANY Macbook with a butterfly keyboard - in 5 years upon inspection you will find a keyboard failure on each and every one.

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

Based on my issues and numerous topcase (keep in mind that this is not a repair, it's a brand new keyboard) replacements, experiences from my colleagues and failing demo machines I've seen, not only do I think that failure rate is 50% - I believe that during the lifespan of a device (let's say 5 years) the failure rate is 100%.

Some say that they needed to break the keyboard in. Seriously, it has come to this? We have a 3+k laptop and it is so fancy and advanced that the keyboard needs to be broken in?


Keep in mind that repeating keys and occasional key drops do not mean that laptop is useless for most of the users. You can still comfortably use it for contect consumption, You can still use it with an external keyboard. Some people don't even notice this stuff and just think it's an user error while typing.
I am sure Apple will also implement some kind of "Unshaky" software and even further mitigate this.

But yes, I believe that if you used this Macbook. ANY Macbook with a butterfly keyboard - in 5 years upon inspection you will find a keyboard failure on each and every one.

Curious what they do with those top cases. Perhaps repair and install on the next refurbished device?

 

[537635]

Curious what they do with those top cases. Perhaps repair and install on the next refurbished device?

No way. Stuff is riveted together. Watch the disassembly (or more correctly destruction) videos. No repairs here.

 

[SDColorado]

Curious what they do with those top cases. Perhaps repair and install on the next refurbished device?

Maybe recycle the Aluminum to make the New MacBook Airs? Beer Cans? Nespresso Pods? Dunno

Every time a MacBook Pro dies a MacBook Air is born? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[fokmik]

i can't wait for the arm based macbook 12" its coming probably in 2019 or 2020 with A13X or whatever will call it for the macs since the normal A series are for iphone.. the AX are for ipad...probably AZ(ippy) for macs

 

[salvator]

hey guys i am planning to buy the 2018 13inch MBP but having read so many horror stories of the keyboard i am now scared!
do all the 2018 keyboards have issues and is there someone there who hasn't faced any problem as such

please give me your sincere opnion as this is a lot of money for me

 

[Ploki]

hey guys i am planning to buy the 2018 13inch MBP but having read so many horror stories of the keyboard i am now scared!
do all the 2018 keyboards have issues and is there someone there who hasn't faced any problem as such

please give me your sincere opnion as this is a lot of money for me

yes, plenty of people don't have issues even on 2016-2017 keyboards.

if you receive one that has issues, replace it.

If it develops issues within the first 2 years and you're in the EU, they're gonna replace it for free.

My i9 2018 had developed faulty "i" key after one month, when i got a refund i ordered a 13" 2018 and am waiting for it. No need to worry that much.

 

[537635]

yes, plenty of people don't have issues even on 2016-2017 keyboards.

if you receive one that has issues, replace it.

If it develops issues within the first 2 years and you're in the EU, they're gonna replace it for free.

My i9 2018 had developed faulty "i" key after one month, when i got a refund i ordered a 13" 2018 and am waiting for it. No need to worry that much.

Well if you need a computer for a living, it's a bummer to be without it for weeks at a time. This definitely needs to be taken into account, when purchasing Apple's laptops nowadays. Do expect to be without it for 1-4 weeks (depends on where you live in regards to Apple's service network) every few months.

 

[salvator]

yes, plenty of people don't have issues even on 2016-2017 keyboards.

if you receive one that has issues, replace it.

If it develops issues within the first 2 years and you're in the EU, they're gonna replace it for free.

My i9 2018 had developed faulty "i" key after one month, when i got a refund i ordered a 13" 2018 and am waiting for it. No need to worry that much.

the thing is i will be getting it from another country so won't have the liberty of the return or replacement.

Well if you need a computer for a living, it's a bummer to be without it for weeks at a time. This definitely needs to be taken into account, when purchasing Apple's laptops nowadays. Do expect to be without it for 1-4 weeks (depends on where you live in regards to Apple's service network) every few months.

are the keys that bad on them and do all 2018 models have issues?

 

[Ploki]

Well if you need a computer for a living, it's a bummer to be without it for weeks at a time. This definitely needs to be taken into account, when purchasing Apple's laptops nowadays. Do expect to be without it for 1-4 weeks (depends on where you live in regards to Apple's service network) every few months.

that's why i ordered a mini + 13" instead of a beefy 15"

 

[537635]

are the keys that bad on them and do all 2018 models have issues?

In my experience - yes.

I've had 3 (or 4, cannot really remember anymore) topcase replacements on a 2016 model, being without a working computer more than 2 months altogether. Afterwards I got a new 2018 model this September (replacement). Since then I've had sporadic double key activations from time to time, but nothing constant. The worst thing was during a big presentation, where in a critical moment the right arrow moved me two slides forward, instead of one. Seems like a small thing, but it made me realise that I cannot count on this laptop anymore. It is far, far away from deserving the title "Pro".

So when these double key activations get more frequent, I'll simply get a new topcase. And then again. And again.

I really like using the keyboard (when it works), but damn I hate this design. It is by far the worst thing Apple has ever made.

 

[gbederson]

I was surprised that after thirteen days of use my new Macbook Air keyboard began to fail. The right arrow key was sticking. I would have returned it for repair, except that my previous experience with the 12 inch Macbook keyboard makes me convinced that their new computers are useless for me. I had bought the other computer about three years ago and after multiple keyboard failures Apple offered to give me a full refund. I had a $1,300 credit for all those years until I finally decided to try again.

Luckily the problem arose within the return window. But now I have a $1,400 Apple credit and may not be able to use it again for another few years. In the meantime, I plan to buy a used 11 inch Macbook Air, with the decent keyboard.

All this makes me wonder what is the real reason Apple is continuing to use a defective critical part, and have come to believe that there is a hidden and possibly sinister explanation. They don't want to satisfy their customers and they don't even want to make a profit on the MacBooks. Why? I'm sure it has to do with their long-term strategy and the fact that they have a monopoly, but as to the exact reason, I don't really care.

 

[Alameda]

If you get a replacement, it will most likely also fail.

If Apple says you need a replacement, they have to replace the entire top cover which would mean that they would send it out. Your best bet is to clean it yourself following the Apple approved method. Many people posting here indicated that the method worked for them.

If cleaning it yourself does not work, take it in the Apple service.
[doublepost=1544825957][/doublepost]

I believe that Apple will eventually end up with a touch screen keyboard in the laptops.

Thanks! I bought some compressed air and it worked. My Tab key is back to normal.

 

[Plutonius]

Thanks! I bought some compressed air and it worked. My Tab key is back to normal.

I'm glad it worked..

I just bought a 2017 MacBook Pro and I plan on buying a supply of canned air.

Unfortunately, I think it will happen multiple times over the laptop's lifetime requiring cleaning each time .

 

[iAVERY]

I was basically told by apple support that I am typing wrong. I had a 2016 that got serviced for the keyboard and was eventually given a 2018. They told me that this issue on the 2018 is due to dust and that the previous models have a manufacturing defect. I saved the transcript because I find it very interesting that they are calling them separate issues.
[doublepost=1545006211][/doublepost]

the thing is i will be getting it from another country so won't have the liberty of the return or replacement.



are the keys that bad on them and do all 2018 models have issues?

my 2018 is beginning to show issues, I got it in September.

 

[Fpb1980]

Does anyone use a silicone keyboard cover on the MacBook pro? Did you still have the issue?

 

[537635]

Does anyone use a silicone keyboard cover on the MacBook pro? Did you still have the issue?

I did. I don't anymore, after two keyboards failed WITH a keyboard cover on.

Apparently if it's not airtight, it doesn't work. Silicone cover protects from small spills and large crumbs. These keyboards seem to get killed by small dust particles.

 

[Roadstar]

I did. I don't anymore, after two keyboards failed WITH a keyboard cover on.

Apparently if it's not airtight, it doesn't work. Silicone cover protects from small spills and large crumbs. These keyboards seem to get killed by small dust particles.

In addition, it seems like heat is contributing at least to the keys getting stuck since tolerances are ultra-tight and heat expansion seems to trigger at least some issues, so adding a keyboard cover could actually make it worse by obstructing whatever amount of cooling still occurs via the keyboard.

 

[salvator]

reading all the comments here and the fact that everyone is complaining about the 2018 keyboards it makes me feel like the failure rate is 70-80%.
is there anyone here who doesn't have the problem?

im stuck now, do you suggest buying the 2018 13inch MBP or not?
it is a big investment for me.

coming here and everyone reporting problems with the pros airs and the macbook since all have the same keyboard.
how is apple still possibly functioning!

 

[jsamuels]

reading all the comments here and the fact that everyone is complaining about the 2018 keyboards it makes me feel like the failure rate is 70-80%.
is there anyone here who doesn't have the problem?

im stuck now, do you suggest buying the 2018 13inch MBP or not?
it is a big investment for me.

coming here and everyone reporting problems with the pros airs and the macbook since all have the same keyboard.
how is apple still possibly functioning!

No problems with my 2018 MBP 13" wTB. Maybe I'm just lucky. But, others have had a very different experience.