Sorry, but even as much as I am an advocate for GM, even I agree that the LaCrosse sucks. Though the new one is promising.
The interior looks very nice. http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/new2010buicklacrossespy/1003676616?viewSize=thumb800x800
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GM has 120 days to live, Ford 7 months.
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The interior looks very nice. http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/new2010buicklacrossespy/1003676616?viewSize=thumb800x800
One reason I think American automakers are behind is that they rely on their pickups/SUVs/fleet vehicles to keep them profitable. If the best seller is a pickup truck, how can you expect them to focus the kind of energy required to build world-beating cars?
The problem is that the American automakers artificially inflated a market sector. By abusing loopholes in manufacturing and mileage standards, they were able to flood the market with poorly made "light trucks" that they could sell cheaply at large profits. The SUV craze was always living on credit, and the collectors have come for their dues. If the government had stepped up and actually regulated these products and especially mileage standards properly, these companies would have been forced to innovate before they fell as far behind as they did.
If Ford and GM go under, not only are those employees out of work, but the American workers at plants owned by Asian and European companies are in trouble as well. I've work in an auto plant for over ten years now. When I started, my company, as well as others, were paying just enough to keep us just happy enough to keep the UAW out. As the American companies have struggled, our raises, bonuses, and benefits have gotten worse, until this year when the drop in the bonus actually wiped out our pitiful raise plus some. When the big 3 go, they can pay us whatever they see fit. Where are we going to go?
I'm not big on government bailouts, but I'm not rooting for the competition to go under, either.
I'm not big on government bailouts, but I'm not rooting for the competition to go under, either.
Health Care
I'm surprised that in 5 pages of discussion, no one's mentioned health care (unless I missed it =P).
The big 3 have huge legacy programs providing health care to all of their workers, as well as retirees. These are not costs that the Japanese, Korean, and German manufacturers have to deal with. The common phrase is that the big 3 spend more on health care than they do on steel for each car.
This more than likely had a costs impact on decisions on quality and name-rebranding (as well as dealers whining about wanting the same car another brand has).
Not to say that there weren't mistakes made in terms of styling, quality and R&D in the past, but I really do think that GM and Ford are turning over new leaves in terms of both. Especially compared to Toyota and Honda.
Also, if my understanding is correct, this federal loan is strictly tied to R&D investment, right where it should go.
So, they're suffering now, but if this country can fix it's healthcare and social security systems (big ifs, I know), the Big 3 will be doing much much better in the long run.
I'm surprised that in 5 pages of discussion, no one's mentioned health care (unless I missed it =P).
The big 3 have huge legacy programs providing health care to all of their workers, as well as retirees. These are not costs that the Japanese, Korean, and German manufacturers have to deal with. The common phrase is that the big 3 spend more on health care than they do on steel for each car.
This more than likely had a costs impact on decisions on quality and name-rebranding (as well as dealers whining about wanting the same car another brand has).
Not to say that there weren't mistakes made in terms of styling, quality and R&D in the past, but I really do think that GM and Ford are turning over new leaves in terms of both. Especially compared to Toyota and Honda.
Also, if my understanding is correct, this federal loan is strictly tied to R&D investment, right where it should go.
So, they're suffering now, but if this country can fix it's healthcare and social security systems (big ifs, I know), the Big 3 will be doing much much better in the long run.
This is where Ford has a huge advantage over GM. Ford not only has more money available (so they may not need as big a loan), but Ford has new products from their European division that could be huge sellers here, starting with the new Fiesta and the third-generation Focus coming in 2010.
GM also has their Opel's to bring over. They brought the Astra over and there is the new Insignia which is a pretty awesome car( I was in London and went to the British autoshow when it debuted).
heh, not often you hear the words Vauxhall (aka. Opel) and awesome in the same sentence
I was thinking the same thing. Of course, the last Opel that I drove was perhaps 15 years ago (in Germany). I was not impressed.heh, not often you hear the words Vauxhall (aka. Opel) and awesome in the same sentence
GM better not go under, I want my vette or camaro for when I get out of school.....I will be buying used, but still want to get service from a GM dealer, etc.
That would be nice other than the fact that the US needs an auto industry. Having the industrial base in place is mighty handy in times of need - such as war. If we just let the market do it's thing, there's a good chance GM and Ford will disappear and that would be horrible for the country.
P-Worm
Speaking as a Brit, where we have already experienced what you are experiencing now (i.e. former largest car maker Rover Group going into receivership in 2005), I say it doesn't matter who is making the cars, as long as somebody is. If GM collapses and Toyota thrives, so be it. As long as they are employing American workers, why should it matter?
At the end of the day any profits (or losses) go into the pockets of shareholders, who could be from anywhere on the planet. The origin of the company is irrelevant.
We had demonstrations in the 80s to try and stop Land Rover being taken over by a foreign company. Now it's owned by TATA, an Indian Company. That's business.
At the end of the day any profits (or losses) go into the pockets of shareholders, who could be from anywhere on the planet. The origin of the company is irrelevant.
We had demonstrations in the 80s to try and stop Land Rover being taken over by a foreign company. Now it's owned by TATA, an Indian Company. That's business.
heh, not often you hear the words Vauxhall (aka. Opel) and awesome in the same sentence
Well it is much better then what we Americans get. Looks and interior beats out our Camry's and Accords.
And exterior wise, Top Gear liked it.
I love how you blame the company for the choices that American people make. The F-150 was the number one selling vehicle in America, not because Ford chose it to be, but because so many Americans were convinced that that's what they needed. The American companies happened to be in the best position to capitalize on this materialistic fad, while the Japanese companies tried as hard as they could to jump on the band wagon (Tundra, Titan, Ridgeline, Sequoia, Armada, Pilot...). Fortunately for Toyota, Nissan and Honda, the SUV/PickUp bubble burst before they made any significant inroads, and before they had dedicated their manufacturing inertia to these vehicles as the Americans already had.
On top of that, we have a largely uninformed buying public, with perception of the big 3's offerings lagging far behind their actual products. Its too bad so many people who buy cars blindly shut out Ford and GM without bothering to read any "automotive journalism" or quality surveys. Have a look at Consumer Reports or JD Powers surveys these days and you'll regularly see Ford nipping at the heals of Toyota and Honda, and way ahead of other brands typically perceived as being high quality.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2008063.pdf
Notice Ford is basically tied with Honda, just ahead of Audi, and well above Acura, Nissan, BMW, Volkswagen and Subaru.
As for making fuel efficient cars, I agree it's too bad they weren't quicker to move, but fortunately we have some really good product on the way from both GM and Ford. The Volt is the brightest spot on the horizon in terms of actually getting people to accept battery electric vehicles. It's far more ambitious than Toyota's PHEV plans. Ford is also playing it smart and working on their PHEV plans together with Electrical Utility companies, which is an essential cooperation for this to work on a large scale. Lets just hope the two companies can survive long enough to put these things on the road.
Closer term projects like the Fusion hybrid unveiled in a week or two, and the impressive little Fiesta are really promising.
I don't know if I believe in an all out bail out, but the government definitely doesn't want these companies to go bust. How bout just boosting the R&D cash for promising new products?
good god i just read that GM HQ demands that their GM europe daughter to save 750 million dollar next year .. how that is supposed to work without laying of workers i have no idea
and i suspect that they are going to hit less hard since the european branch isn't doing half as bad as the US one
and i suspect that they are going to hit less hard since the european branch isn't doing half as bad as the US one
You can blame them for not being prepared for the time when the SUV/truck sales were going to go down and people regained their senses and went back to sedans.
-Corporate taxes
-Power
-Nat. security
-Autonomy
-Pride
-White-collar jobs and white-collar spending power (aka "salaried workforce")
Because I don't like any of Toyota's products. I think they're bland and overrated. As an American, Ford and GM are symbols of pride for this country. They're important both historically and for the future. It's not just a matter of products being made in this country...but it's also about products being made by actual American companies...regardless of which country the shareholders reside.
And, yeah, Landrover and Jaguar used to be owned by Ford. It's strange that TATA owns them now. Are the "Britishness" of these two brands now completely gone?
From what I've read the money, or the lion's share of it at least, is supposed to go towards retooling existing plants to make greener vehicles. So basically these clowns got rich riding their one trick pony into the ground and are now looking for handouts to buy a new horse.
I can see arguments for the bail out being a necessary evil, but there should be serious repercussions to come along w/that money. IMO if you've run your company so far into the ground that it takes a act of Congress to potentially save it you don't deserve to keep your job, you don't deserve the millions you made destroying the company, and you sure as heck don't deserve the golden parachute you will inevitably get. The fact that some of these execs can be so utterly horrible at their jobs yet still get millions, if not 10's of millions, of dollars is mind boggling.
So the America people are at fault because these companies put all their money into a fad and had no forward looking business plans?
So the America people are also at fault because these companies have done less than stellar jobs marketing themselves?
Seriously?
Lethal
Nah, as long as the R&D is and production is done in the UK, its still British. Its probably more British now* then when Ford owned Jaguar and BMW owned Land Rover.
* I say this as Tata has said that they dont want to tarnish the 'Britishness' of the brands. And India was a British colony once.
The SUV craze could definitely be called a fad, but the F100/F150 has been (until recently of course) the best selling truck in the US since the 1960s and the best selling vehicle since the 1980's. You can hardly call 40 years of dominance a "fad".
