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Ironically, in UK is only iPhones/Apple watches that do offer NFC payments.

And seriously, you call large screens innovation?
Anywhere Apple Pay works, so does Android Pay. Now if it's not available in your country that's different. The original Samsung Note was innovative since it allowed people to use a Wacom stylus and be more productive.
 
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Not correct. Android Pay currently only available in US. Apple Pay at least on 7 countries.
Read the rest of my post... I said unless it is unavailable in your country. Android Pay uses the same technology and can be used, if allowed, anywhere Apple Pay is
 
NFC payments, large screen smartphones, 2k resolution, virtual reality with smartphones, fast wireless charging, USB quick charging, notification pulldown, multitasking, I can go on. I'm not saying Android invented all these features, but no other smartphone company has implemented them yet

That's combined innovation for a couple of years.

iPhones have innovated much more.
 
Yeah, that's all true. Wall Street values companies based on what they expect them to do in the future, not what they're doing today so what you're saying makes sense for the most part. What you're leaving out, however, are the oddball situations where Wall Street values companies inordinately high compared to their profit. The best example to cite is Amazon, but there are others.

And just because Apple missed their projections and their sales fell for one quarter does not make the responses on Wall Street suddenly look logical. There has always been a bit of a disconnect there. For example, Apple's stock value often tumbles even after Apple reports good sales. I wouldn't defend the thinking there too vigorously. It often doesn't make much sense.

You can be as Pollyanna as you need to be to get a good nights rest. I say the following with a large stake of AAPL relative to my total portfolio, as it's perilous to be emotional about one's investments The facts are:

• Apple's hard number revenue was down big compared to same quarter previous year. Again, whether that is a blip or a trend too soon to say. It certainly is a concern and bears watching. (Perhaps I am a bit more emotional/hopeful by sticking around than Icahn who basically pronounced AAPL dead money for awhile when he sold his position.)

• Apple didn't meet its own conservative estimate, the same conservative estimates that allowed it to smash though on the upside the past 13 years. Not talking at all about any 3rd party estimates, only Apple's own guidance. Everyone was in shock and awe when Apple blew by its estimates. Suddenly Apple didn't meet them and it's move away, nothing to see here. Huh?

• Sales of iPhones are down compared to same quarter previous year. Again, real numbers, not some 3rd party crank analyst. Could be the product, could be the smartphone market, but it's a decline. If it's the product the iPhone 7 doesn't seem like much of a game changer. If its the market Apple is left flat footed w/o a product to replace that revenue. Yes, as an investor (and a fan) that is a concern.

• Apple, as a tech company, despite consistent blowout quarters, buyback, dividends, has one of the lowest price multiples in the sector because it lacks profit diversity. When one product dominates profit it presents an investment risk, and that factors into the multiple WS gives it. It's not random. You cannot say the Market doesn't fairly price Apple. Amazon is maybe out of whack, but Apple is fairly priced.

• Apple stock has been relatively flat the past few years compared to Google, Amazon, even Microsoft. So you can't say WS is erratic when it comes to Apple but it's actually been fairly consistent and disciplined in the average.
 
I blame this man . . . which while being alive is hurting Apple.

th
 
I've seen a lot of my money simply evaporate over the last three weeks.

The iPad, iPhone and Mac are all in limbo, limited by available tech and slowing world economy. The Apple Watch is still not a mature enough product and likely won't be until the 3rd version. Apple has yet to strike a deal on TV content and competitors are quickly catching up to it's software superiority.

Granted, a lot of these things are not the fault of the company, but it may be a year or so until we can get 10nm chipsets to really boost iPad and Mac sales. The Apple Watch has a lot of potential, if Apple can figure it out. Apple TV seems to be lagging, but there is a lot of room for growth with both Apple TV and Apple Music.

The iPhone is a mystery to me. Releasing an iPhone 7 that's really just an iPhone 6ss is not good. Shrinking the bezels, wireless charging, thinner and lighter design with internal improvements with a reworked iOS could really help, but it seems increasingly unlikely.

I'd also like to see something done with it's Beats by Dre. headphones.
 
I don't doubt this, Google has all our personal data, hobbies and internet habits. That has value.

They don't have mine. I cut Google out of my life ages ago when Eric Schmidt admitted publicly that they were mainly in business to gather personal info. Don't need that.
 
They don't have mine. I cut Google out of my life ages ago when Eric Schmidt admitted publicly that they were mainly in business to gather personal info. Don't need that.
By the way, everything you do on the net is being collected as well. Even Macrumors server collects data such as your location, time of day, computer or phone used and how long you visit and many other things, what sites you came from before here and where you went after visiting here. You can't escape it.
 
As is people getting worked into a frenzy over the value of 2 corporations.

Yeah, it's like bragging that your local gas station brand makes more billions than anyone else.

I'm more interested in how many they employ, and how good those jobs are. And how they contribute / give back to their communities and customers.
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They don't have mine. I cut Google out of my life ages ago when Eric Schmidt admitted publicly that they were mainly in business to gather personal info. Don't need that.

Google is one of the least important data collectors to worry about. After all, they have great incentive to keep our info private. It's more valuable that way.

OTOH, hundreds of other entities gather and actually SELL PERSONAL information on the web. They're infinitely more of a security risk than major players like a Google or an Apple.

Also, what our banks collect can have a far greater effect on our lives. Their computers constantly watch what and where we buy things. Partly to determine possible fraud. But partly also to determine our financial health prospects. Spend money at a marriage counselor? That's just a targeted ad from Google. But to the bank, it's a red flag that you might soon be paying alimony instead of your bills.

Such info is valuable. It's partly why the banks were willing to pay Apple to let it continue to flow via Apple Pay, and in return Apple was willing to sell them access.

Seriously, people are so upside down about who and what they worry about.
 
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Wow, people really don't get it. The only reason Google is more valuable than Apple right now is that people believe Google will grow three times faster than Apple.

Apple's P/E Ratio is currently around 10, while Google's P/E is around 29. If Google was selling at the same P/E as Apple, it would be selling for around $245/share (instead of $713.31) and it's "value" (market capitalization) would be around $168.2 billion - about the amount of cash and marketable securities Apple has on hand right now (after subtracting debt). If Apple was selling at Google's P/E, it'd be trading at around $261/share (instead of $90.34).

It's all investor sentiment - optimism/pessimism about a future that has yet to happen. It has nothing to do with the current financial position of either company.

Google's 2015 Net Profit Margin 21.8% Apple's 22.85% (both quite healthy)
Google's 2015 Net Profit $16.348 billion Apple's $53,394 billion (no contest - Apple's a much bigger company)

So, the market assumes Apple's falling off a cliff tomorrow, and Google's on a rocket to Mars. Big deal. Call me when either scenario comes true.

No, the market feels that Apple has peaked, as the iPhone has peaked. That steady upward gradient of sales has peaked. From here, lets say Apples sales are steady every year,not up, not down, but steady. Apples profits are steady and reliable. The stock price will settle as well. The issue is the premium placed on a growing future is being removed, as the iPhone which has now baulked as a must get every year or two years is their egg in one basket. They cannot turn round and change that, as part of it is the market, phones are mature, ubiquitous. They cannot turn to the Mac, iPad, Watch to rejuvenate sales. So you have a large company making large profits that are 1000% reliable to occur. Its like a bank deposit, the interest is known, its predictable.

I cannot really see this changing, but OTOH, as a supplier and profit maker they are 1000% stable and rock solid, its just that the promise of growth is very minimal.
 
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Personally, I'm definitely no "Apple is always right" fanboy. I can certainly be down on them when I judge them through my own "think different" consumer lens and they are doing things that seem very un-Apple-like to me. But they are great and I think we ALL know they can do better than what we've seen from them for a while. We expect dazzling wow from Apple. When we don't get it, we grumble. When we don't get it for a long time, we grumble louder. But we're still here... and still expecting dazzling wow to come. Who else is going to deliver it?

Yeah, I'm of the same mindset, and haven't shied away on calling out Apple when they screw up. From what I've heard, the biggest complainers about Apple stuff are the people who work at Apple. That's why they release great stuff.

But I'm referring more to the people I see in the last couple years who comment on every article with negative views of Apple and Tim Cook, who spin everything and mock everything. They've really brought down the level of discourse in this community, but I guess Macrumors prefers the page views to having a better community with less users.
 
OK, but then there's the other extreme (crowd) too... the one that might be labeled the "Apple is always right in all things" crowd. From the perspective of the crowd you just defined and then those somewhere in between the 2 extremes, they can look just as ridiculous? ultra biased? <pick your own tag> That crowd would spin the positives in a new iPhone Apple decided to make out of razor blades: "turning over your blood over and over is better for your marrow" and "regular transfusions helps one invigorate their cells", etc, etc. (you know they would make up a whole pile of such support to rationalize even a razor blade iPhone).

Sure this is MacRumors not AntiMacRumors, but it's also not PosiMacRumors. Personally, I come here for the crowd in the middle. I judge those at both extremes as weak contributors because one can't really trust anything offered by those commenting from either perspective. Those who can actually "think different"... that seem to be in the middle, they- IMO- have the best opinions, make the best contributions, etc. When Apple is making a right decision, they can praise it. When it's a wrong decision, they can pooh, pooh it. But at least they are not universally one way or the other in all things.

IMO- those hungry for only positive or only negative posts should start a new site like MacRumors. Make it the rule that one can only gush positives or bash negatives... as seems to so often be longed for right here. Then, see what happens.

500 posts in every thread of "rah, rah Apple" or 500 posts in every thread of "pooh, pooh Apple" would get old so very fast. How many novel ways can a corporation be praised or criticized before it's all been done? And then why does one keep coming back and clicking into threads when they know there's nothing there but gushing praise or all negative bash?

Again IMO- it's the differences of opinions that make it interesting around here. It's the differing points of view that actually allows us to learn something from each other. While the extremists at both ends can't really be trusted, once one figures out who "they" are, the rest can contribute a good amount of value, unique insights and alternative ways of seeing the news or building upon or correcting what someone else has posted. Objective posts can help us save time, save money, wait on a buggy upgrade, jump on an excellent upgrade and so on.

Imagine thread and thread of nothing but praise or bashes and nothing else. What's to be learned in those threads? What is THAT community going to offer you that you don't already know? Some of us- usually the extremists- so crave an evolution of a site like this so that it's only those who share their individual views posting in threads with them. How boring it would be to read even a page of posts where everyone perfectly agrees? I suppose there would be a little burst of glee in homogeny of opinion in the very first thread or three, but how much of that could one stand before one knows the sentiment BEFORE reading any other versions of only the same opinions? Why bother opening the comments when you know they're ALL praising or ALL bashing, aligned with whether you want to praise or bash? IMO- a whole site of that seems like it would die a quick death out of sheer boredom, in already knowing the entire group sentiment associated with every story. Or, more simply, a perfect homogeny of opinion in a site like that seems to be about the opposite of what is generally perceived to be meant by "think different" or "here's to the crazy ones" or...

 
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No, the market feels that Apple has peaked, as the iPhone has peaked. That steady upward gradient of sales has peaked. From here, lets say Apples sales are steady every year,not up, not down, but steady. Apples profits are steady and reliable. The stock price will settle as well. The issue is the premium placed on a growing future is being removed, as the iPhone which has now baulked as a must get every year or two years is their egg in one basket. They cannot turn round and change that, as part of it is the market, phones are mature, ubiquitous. They cannot turn to the Mac, iPad, Watch to rejuvenate sales. So you have a large company making large profits that are 1000% reliable to occur. Its like a bank deposit, the interest is known, its predictable.

I cannot really see this changing, but OTOH, as a supplier and profit maker they are 1000% stable and rock solid, its just that the promise of growth is very minimal.

The market has been pricing Apple shares as if the company has peaked... throughout its period of astronomic growth. When was the last time Apple sold at Google's current P/E (29), or Amazon's (292)? Answer? Long before iPhone. If that's how Apple has been valued as a growing company, will the markets price a "stable" Apple like a reliable, cash cow, or will it start selling at a P/E of 6 or 8, on the assumption that "reliable and steady" can't last?
 
Nope, and nor can Google. They come up with clever names like "material design" and "project butter" (like what the...?!) and blow their own trumpet about how they have floating cards and drop shadows, and all that UTTER BOLLOCKS - and Apple have hierarchical, layered design too, but aren't so pretentious to have sat and made up a NAME for it, accompanying it with some long winded nonsense video showing them cutting out bits of card and casting lights upon them, and noting how light behaves... WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT THAT UTTER BOLLOCKS? It's all a distraction technique to avoid talking about their BOLLOCKS software and unscrupulous lack of ethics.

If you are bored out of your tiny mind enough to want to read and watch some more Google "material design" bollocks, please click below, where a pretentious twerp team has been put together to collate this BOLLOCKS for your amusement:

https://www.google.com/design/spec/motion/material-motion.html

I
nstead of studying bits of card, and making VR goggles OUT of card, how about addressing your use of Java as a phone OS, and taking control of handset fragmentation?

BAW-LOCKS! :D

PS: Talking of pretentious piffle, "Don't be evil"? How about "Don't be full of complete bollocks"?
You realize if you replace your complaints about Material design with "Aluminium unibody", you get Apple right ?
 
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