Google Announces Google Chrome Operating System

[Anuba]

As for that driver, if the uninstallation utility caused that problem, it's the coder's fault, not Apple's...

True, but it's Apple's fault that some residual file can hang the whole system. It shouldn't be that vulnerable. Hanging for 20 minutes just because some orphaned driver is trying to establish contact with an external device that's no longer there? Crikey. Windows uninstallers will sometimes leave residual garbage behind too, but I've never seen it take down the system.

 

[Wikinerd]

Nope, but I'll give it a shot. Thanks. Like I said, coreservicesd gobbles up all CPU juice for several minutes on bootup. If I remove the SMB share from the Startup Items panel it immediately stops, and if I put it back there it immediately starts again. This does not happen on my Mac Mini (with 10.5.7) which mounts the exact same SMB share on startup.

This thread suggests it started with 10.5.7 but the same problem was reported on other threads with 10.5.6 as well as 10.5.3. OS X really seems to hate network drives, there are so many issues with it. I used to have my iTunes library on a NAS drive, used it for years in iTunes on Windows without issues. But when I tried the same on Mac, it would randomly lose sight of the files (even though the NAS drive was mounted and I was able to browse it in Finder) and exclamation points would show up in front of the tracks. Once those pesky "!" icons would show up you had to show iTunes where every single song was, not merely once but for every track with a "!" in front of it, or rebuild the whole library.

I'm starting to think it's two separate problems you're getting here.

And on a side note, network problems are always -the- pain in the *** regardless of operating system... Esp. when NAS's come into play... NAS's are built usually with Windows in mind, thus that's what you get when you plug the mac in... By the way, did you try activating AFP on the NAS? That might help...


PS. take a look at my prev post again. I've built on the point about uninstallation...

 

[Wikinerd]

True, but it's Apple's fault that some residual file can hang the whole system. It shouldn't be that vulnerable. Hanging for 20 minutes just because some orphaned driver is trying to establish contact with an external device that's no longer there? Crikey. Windows uninstallers will sometimes leave residual garbage behind too, but I've never seen it take down the system.

I guess you're lucky then...

Well, the last time I've had a driver problem like this it didn't actually take down the system— 'cuz it cant boot up in the first place...

This is also likely with Apple computers but since most of the drivers are either preinstalled or available via Apple's install DVD, or that it's plug-and-play, it's just not frequent to the normal user.

(@mods.... sorry about the double post... I thought by the time I posted this in the fast-paced thread someone would've wedged between posts...)

 

[Superdelphinus]

Linux on a netbook failed because they used unconventional UI with inadequate standardization and people bought it with the expectation it will do more than it did. Everyone knows the google programs and everyone knows what google can do. This will not be a repeat.

it failed because microsoft got interested in netbooks

 

[dicklacara]

Its probably okay for some users, my point is, those "some users" is not a big enough number among computer users. I doubt it will be more than a million.

If you consider an OS for the desktop/laptop segment used by professionals, developers, power users, etc.-- you are probably correct.

But there are other OS environments:

-- enterprise users who only (ever) use a few apps on a LAN (analogous to dumb terminals of the past)
-- single-purpose appliance devices like TiVo, TimeCapsule, AppleTV, PSP, XBox, WII, Fedex hand-held Terminals, Portable POS terminals, etc.
-- multi-appliance devices such as smart phone, iPod Touch, PDA, Cameras, etc.

All the above are potential users of a new speciality [subset] OS.

This sector is growing much faster than the desktop/laptop sector.

One needs only look to Phil Shiller's preso on OSX at the WWDC.

It’s simply a matter of users. During Phil Schiller’s keynote, he showed a graph of the “OS X” user base over time, with steady growth over the first part of this decade followed by a sharp jump from 25 to 75 million over the past two years. This figure was widely mis-cited, however, as showing growth in “Mac OS X” users. It did not. The graph said “OS X”, not “Mac OS X”, and what Apple meant to show were the combined number of users of Mac OS X and iPhone OS. It was a very misleading and poorly-designed chart.

http://daringfireball.net/2009/06/wwdc09_wrapup

The point is Apple's OSX (for all devices) tripled from 25 million users to 75 million users in the 2 years after the iPhone and iPod Touch became available.

It is not too unreasonable to predict that mobile OS use will surpass desktop/laptop OS use within the next few years.

Last count, there were more than 40 million mobile OSX users.

Dick

 

[slb]

Beat me to it. Google blog:http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009...com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html

This is huge. I'm not really a Google fan but all OSs are threatened by this just because it's Google. They are planning to open source the code so it could potentially kill off other Linux distros not to mention throwing down the gauntlet to Microsoft. If I were Apple I'd be a little scared.

You now have Google starting to create an ecosystem with Android, Chrome/OS, Search, Gmail, Gcal, etc. I wonder how long it is before they get hit with antitrust regulations by the gov't.

This is just a Google-branded Linux distro. It does not threaten other OSes. People said the same about the Chrome web browser last year, yet today, Chrome has less market share than Safari. What is there for Apple to be scared of, exactly? Why would being open source kill off other Linux distros, which are also open source?

 

[ilp]

If it's as ugly as Google Apps are then you can count me out. I'm really starting to not like how Google handles certain things (labels, calendar is garbage compared to iCal/Outlook).

I have quite the opposite outlook, I much prefer the online Google calendar to iCal.

 

[Anuba]

And on a side note, network problems are always -the- pain in the *** regardless of operating system... Esp. when NAS's come into play... NAS's are built usually with Windows in mind, thus that's what you get... By the way, did you try activating AFP on the NAS? That might help...

Yeah, I did. The NAS has AFP, SMB and whatever the Windows equivalent is called... but OS X only sees the SMB (if you have the firewall disabled, that is, otherwise it doesn't see the NAS at all).

Some big apps, however, don't follow suit and often have large libraries and background processes that require an installer, etc.

Tell me about it. When I installed various music apps and plugins I wondered where all the sound libraries went (those are usually placed in the application folders on Windows). I knew I should have at least 40 GB worth of samples and patches but I couldn't find them anywhere, Spotlight turned up empty handed, I had to track them down by looking at folder sizes. Turned out they were all buried deep down in some "Application Support" folder 4 or 5 levels down.

PS. take a look at my prev post again. I've built on the point about uninstallation...

Yeah, thanks for the .plist tip, I'll check that out.

 

[droz]

for those of you who may agree that Eric is more of a liability than an asset on Apple's Board of Directors, please write to Apple at the following address:

investor_relations@apple.com

 

[andy721]

corrupt

Sounds like a way to get more n more peoples information in the FBI record log book of corrupt judicial systems.

I don't trust GOOGLE or anything large corp.

 

[Anuba]

Sounds like a way to get more n more peoples information in the FBI record log book of corrupt judicial systems.

I don't trust GOOGLE or anything large corp.

Google = FBI?

 

[Wikinerd]

Yeah, I did. The NAS has AFP, SMB and whatever the Windows equivalent is called... but OS X only sees the SMB (if you have the firewall disabled, that is, otherwise it doesn't see the NAS at all).

If the AFP doesn't show up, then it's situation specific... Either it's your computer's problem or the NAS's problem. If none of your Macs has the AFP on their list, then it's your NAS's problem; it isn't running AFP properly; try turning off SMB and see if it works— if it doesn't it's definitely your NAS's problem...

AFP, you see, is Apple's own file transfer protocol, thus everything related with file-sharing is done that way. (something about FTP licensing not allowing it to go both ways with Macs, I think...)

Tell me about it. When I installed various music apps and plugins I wondered where all the sound libraries went (those are usually placed in the application folders on Windows). I knew I should have at least 40 GB worth of samples and patches but I couldn't find them anywhere, Spotlight turned up empty handed, I had to track them down by looking at folder sizes. Turned out they were all buried deep down in some "Application Support" folder 4 or 5 levels down.

Well, general rule of thumb is that anything that comes with an installer should be uninstalled with an installer/uninstaller/script. If they didn't provide one, it's their fault... (sue them for spyware--no clean uninstallation)

Anyhow yeah, sometimes you just have to do "spring cleaning" like you do in Windows... But I've never had a Library that big—my ~/Library was 4GB at it's height, most of which came from irresponsible caching...
My /Library, however, amounted to around 20GB due to Adobe, Garageband, iMovie, Logic, etc, storing their 'libraries' there...

Yeah, thanks for the .plist tip, I'll check that out.

No problem. Advantages on both sides... But that DLL thing is really frustrating though... I'd prefer if they just had a simple library....

... and had all the libraries in one place and the Apps in the other... Due to the fact that the Program Files folder can be a real mess most of the time...

 

[iGuardian]

A web based OS with Google having all your files?

Over my dead body.

Imagine, if one company had control of every computer and could shut them off or on, turn the internet on your computer on or off, confiscate your files, and limit your usage of the computer?

Imagine if instead of normal computers in Iran right now, there were Google computers, and the government pushed google to simply limit usage of the computers, and take people's files away. The protests would be gone, and there would be no hope for democracy there.

I for one will never, ever, ever, join in on this. It's a possible threat to privacy, freedom of speech, and democracy.

 

[50548]

A new operating system based on a browser? Isn't that a little like building a new car based on a bucket seat?

Nope, it's like the stupid Windows Plus and other similar initiatives aimed at having the web as the OS...an utter fail in my opinion, but whatever...BRING IT ON, GOOGLE! Apple is gonna mop the floor with this new stillborn venture...

Good side of the story is: MS will have another problem to consider when trying to revamp its foundering business model.

In 10 years, we'll have the following:

OS X - 35% of personal systems;
Windows - 50%
Linux - 5%
Google - 5%
Rest - 5%

In a nutshell, MS IS DEAD.

 

[sbarton]

Nope, it's like the stupid Windows Plus and other similar initiatives aimed at having the web as the OS...an utter fail in my opinion, but whatever...BRING IT ON, GOOGLE! Apple is gonna mop the floor with this new stillborn venture...

Good side of the story is: MS will have another problem to consider when trying to revamp its foundering business model.

In a nutshell, MS IS DEAD.

Oh come on. Windows 7 is going to severely curtail the number of switchers for next year or so. Apple had the PERFECT STORM with OSX vs MS (Vista) for over 2 years and the BEST they could do was squeak out another 2/3% market share. SL cards are on the table, so no surprises there.

I expect to see Apple market share actually decrease a bit because of it. MS still has 90% of the consumer market and most of the Enterprise.

Linux isn't going anywhere and unless Apple gets serious about the bottom 90% of the market they aren't going anywhere either. So who does that leave again??

To say MS id dead is bit Nostrodomus don't you think? I mean really, if any of us care in 10 - 20 years you might be proven right who knows.

 

[Berlepsch]

This is just a Google-branded Linux distro. It does not threaten other OSes. People said the same about the Chrome web browser last year, yet today, Chrome has less market share than Safari. What is there for Apple to be scared of, exactly? Why would being open source kill off other Linux distros, which are also open source?

You know, OS X is just an Apple-branded FreeBSD distro.

The question is whether Google redesigns the graphical interface (replacing X Window with their own system) like Apple did, or if they simply use X Window to display the Chrome browser. The latter solution would be easier in terms of 3rd party support for audio/video, since companies can reuse their linux code. Of course such a solution could be upgraded to a full Linux desktop with little extra work.

But as I understand Google's claim, they want to produce something more radical than that. If they build a new architecture on top of the linux kernel, a lot of web-based software needs to be written to rewritten before the Chrome-OS becomes usable. This might turn into the classical chicken-and-egg problem that companies don't want to develop for a non-existing market because the users don't find the apps they need. We will have to see how it turns out.

 

[Wikinerd]

Call me narrow-minded, but I'm not switching until there's another OS that can run iWork, Quıcĸsıɩⅴεʀ, BBCode, and Pixelmator

 

[50548]

Call me narrow-minded, but I'm not switching until there's another OS that can run iWork, Quıcĸsıɩⅴεʀ, BBCode, and Pixelmator

Worry not, you're not alone.

MS IS DEAD.

 

[BongoBanger]

But from the beginning they only did search, yet you're saying they're also good at photo management, maps and mail, so how can you tell if this will be one of their hits or one of their misses? Every company has a bit of both. The Newton and Apple TV aren't exactly smash hits either, but it didn't deter Apple from trying other things.

Because Chrome OS is merely a Linux variant and Linux has already failed in the netbook market.

 

[Liamf555]

Microsoft is hardly dead. No matter what, they will still own the enterprise market, and with all the hype around Windows 7, won't be going too far on the consumer front. This will also not affect Apple much. Other Linux distros will be the ones hit by this.

 

[Wikinerd]

Because Chrome OS is merely a Linux variant and Linux has already failed in the netbook market.

1. Noone has seen the extent of the modification of the Linux kernel to fit the Chrome OS...

2. Linux didn't fail because of the operating systems themselves... As mentioned previously in the thread, Linux failed in the netbook market simply because manufacturers just created/modified a crap version of some distro and slapped it on. Some manufacturers who sold netbooks with distros with drivers did sell them in large quantities...

Maybe you should actually read through the thread before saying something like that.


PS. here. found it:

The thing with Linux on the netbooks is quite interesting. It's a textbook example of OEM-incompetence, MS-bullying and FUD. To be exact:

OEM incompetence: OEM's had the option of using existing Linux-distributions (Ubuntu, Fedora etc.) with existing infrastructure (application-repositories, automatic updates etc.) and UI's that had had a lot of man-years poured in to them. But instead of using those, they created their own systems that barely worked at all. They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Microsoft bullying: When Netbooks took off, they all basically ran Linux. MS panicked and dumbed XP on the market (after spending a lot of time and energy trying to replace it with Vista), and bullied OEM in to using it, instead of using Linux. OEMs made a 180 degree turn so fast that it's incredible. You can be pretty damn sure that it was a combination of dumbing and threats. Hell, I actually wanted to buy a Linux-netbook, but supply of those was very limited. Is it really surprising that people don't buy Linux-netbooks, if they are not available?

FUD: Some netbook-manufacturer (was it Asus?) made a press-release where they whined that no-one wanted Linux, and users who bought the Linux-version were returning it in droves. And people drew the conclusion that it's basically Linux'es fault. But when they asked Dell about it, they said that their Linux-netbooks had similar return-rates as their Windows-models had. The thing is that Dell used a standard Linux-distro, whereas the OEM who made the original complaint used their own half-baked system. People returned their Linux-netbooks because they sucked, but people who bought Dell-netbooks did no return them, since they did not suck. Basically OEM screwed up, but instead of blaming themselves, they blamed Linux.

 

[BongoBanger]

1. Noone has seen the extent of the modification of the Linux kernel to fit the Chrome OS...

And no-one is really going to care.

2. Linux didn't fail because of the operating systems themselves... As mentioned previously in the thread, Linux failed in the netbook market simply because manufacturers just created/modified a crap version of some distro and slapped it on. Some manufacturers who sold netbooks with distros with drivers did sell them in large quantities...

Actually it did. MS flooded the market with XP and the Linux market died almost instantly. People prefer familiarity.

Maybe you should actually read through the thread before saying something like that.

Maybe you should look up the word 'entrenchment'. You can also stop linking to the, frankly, ridiculous theories of other commenters. MS won the netbook war because people wanted a familiar OS. There was no incompetence or bullying and it wouldn't have mattered what flavour of Linux was used.

Or are you going to tell me the Ubuntu equipped Dell laptops outsell their Windows equipped brethren now?

 

[Anuba]

Oh come on. Windows 7 is going to severely curtail the number of switchers for next year or so. Apple had the PERFECT STORM with OSX vs MS (Vista) for over 2 years and the BEST they could do was squeak out another 2/3% market share. SL cards are on the table, so no surprises there.

I expect to see Apple market share actually decrease a bit because of it. MS still has 90% of the consumer market and most of the Enterprise.

Win7 will stop the bleeding, but I don't think it will win back switchers. What will hurt Apple's marketshare, though, is jacking up international prices in the middle of the worst recession in ages, which is precisely what they have done. When the numbers are in for international sales during Q2-Q4 2009 it's going to show that their 3% marketshare outside the US is shrinking.

To say MS id dead is bit Nostrodomus don't you think? I mean really, if any of us care in 10 - 20 years you might be proven right who knows.

Mhm. I lost count of the times that people proclaimed Apple dead in the past, it never happened but at least that claim had some merit, especially in the mid 90's. MS can't die. They'll be here along with the roaches and the rats when the rest of us are gone. If they can release something as crappy and shunned as Vista and still retain a 90% market share, what do you think will happen when they release a system that doesn't suck (Win7)?

 

[dicklacara]

until they get the requisite market share (if it's anything like EU competition law), i.e. never, unless something totally ridiculous happens

Not necessarily true in the US.

In the 1960s Von's Supermarket acquired Shopping Bag food stores.

They were ordered by the Supreme Court to divest because they (paraphrased) "tended towards a monoply".

As I recall, the acquisition gave Von's 2-3 % of the market.

Size doesn't (always) matter... often it's what you (are attempting to) do that counts!

 

[Wikinerd]

And no-one is really going to care.

The fact that you posted indicates otherwise

Actually it did. MS flooded the market with XP and the Linux market died almost instantly. People prefer familiarity

Please read my post again. I've added the quote of the original post of that argument.

Maybe you should look up the word 'entrenchment'.

Entrenchment:an entrenched fortification; a position protected by trenches

My acute mind fails to see how that's relevant.