Google Phone Rumors Continue to Gain Steam

[inkswamp]

Seconded.

Apple seems to have a knack for success in a whole range of markets, from computers to media players, to phones, software, etc. And it looks like they're about to change the tablet game as well

Those products are always spun-off from their core products however. The iPhone is just a scaled back computer running a scaled back OS X with phone functionality. That's a far cry from, say, a software company trying to start a news network or a search engine trying to produce hardware.

 

[cmaier]

Those products are always spun-off from their core products however. The iPhone is just a scaled back computer running a scaled back OS X with phone functionality. That's a far cry from, say, a software company trying to start a news network or a search engine trying to produce hardware.

It's not like hardware is completely foreign to Google. They have many hardware engineers working there in various capacities (including on software) - I know several who used to design microprocessors. They also design their own servers, networking equipment, etc.

 

[charliehustle]

Actually I know exactly what I am talking about. They can have all the ad revenue they want, but if their platform is fragmented, sucks, and dies like WM then that doesn't quite serve their purpose well now does it?



I was talking about Microsoft's fluke of a success with their business model and how they locked in OEMs to Windows. All they have been doing ever since is trying desperately to stop their lock-in monopoly from falling apart, whether it be by illegally stopping competitors, making other crappy products to invade threatening competition and so on. Nice try though!

Apple's model that you are mocking is actually what the people are CHOOSING and praising, Windows never has been a choice, it is a decision that is made for people because OEMs are locked into it!

Try constructing a sentence that does not use Microsoft.

If all you can do is use the failures of one company to justify why you think another one will fair, then your argument is very weak.

 

[mcmlxix]

It's not like hardware is completely foreign to Apple. They have many hardware engineers working there in various capacities (including on software) - I know several who used to design microprocessors. They also design their own servers, networking equipment, etc.

...um...I think inkswamp was trouncing Microsoft...not saying anything about Apple...hardware or otherwise.

 

[cmaier]

...um...I think inkswamp was trouncing Microsoft...not saying anything about Apple...hardware or otherwise.

Sorry. I meant "Google."

 

[Markov]

www.phonerumors.com... ugh... I can't wait for actual Apple products to be rumored.

 

[xIGmanIx]

ahhh.....based on nothing apple has redefined the market i would be happy with BD and more usb ports on their laptops and stop charging for things that should be included (remote!)

Seconded.

Apple seems to have a knack for success in a whole range of markets, from computers to media players, to phones, software, etc. And it looks like they're about to change the tablet game as well

 

[cmaier]

ahhh.....based on nothing apple has redefined the market i would be happy with BD and more usb ports on their laptops and stop charging for things that should be included (remote!)

I don't want a remote I'll never use to be built into the price of my mac just so you don't have to shell out for one. And I'm happy with my MBP's 3 USB ports.

I'd love BD, though.

 

[inkswamp]

It's not like hardware is completely foreign to Google. They have many hardware engineers working there in various capacities (including on software) - I know several who used to design microprocessors. They also design their own servers, networking equipment, etc.

I have no doubt that Google has a hand in the design of their own servers, but I would guess said design expertise is heavily weighted toward search engine optimization. (If I were setting up a search engine company, I'd want Google's techs to guide me--they surely know the nuances of that better than anyone.)

However, that's hardly the same as having expertise in the design of software and hardware for consumer electronics which is a considerably different beast from server technology.

 

[DARKJ3DI]

www.phonerumors.com... ugh... I can't wait for actual Apple products to be rumored.

Or www.googlerumors.com as it's been lately. C'mon apple, leak some more tablet/iphone4g/xmac rumors!

 

[cmaier]

I have no doubt that Google has a hand in the design of their own servers, but I would guess said design expertise is heavily weighted toward search engine optimization. (If I were setting up a search engine company, I'd want Google's techs to guide me--they surely know the nuances of that better than anyone.)

However, that's hardly the same as having expertise in the design of software and hardware for consumer electronics which is a considerably different beast from server technology.

Yes, it's certainly a different kind of hardware, but my point is that they do actually have a lot of people working there who came from places like DEC, HP, Sun, etc. where they were designing PCs, workstations, CPUs, etc. They don't have institutional experience, but they have a lot of people with individual experience.

 

[SandynJosh]

It's not like hardware is completely foreign to Google. They have many hardware engineers working there in various capacities (including on software) - I know several who used to design microprocessors. They also design their own servers, networking equipment, etc.

Engineers that "design servers" are like people adapt at doing an excellent job of tinker toy construction. It's possible to design all kinds of things that are not viable to mass produce. That takes a whole different layer of thinking and experience. With efficent manufacturing there are tons of pitfalls to avoid that a "server designer" has no concept of existing.

Over the years Apple has honed its core skills to include years of experience at efficient manufacturing to produce reliable products. Even though they are now farming that out, their experiences in the past help them manage the process with minimum disruption to flow to market.

Management can buy an experienced team, but if management isn't grounded in the issues of manufacturing, they can not drive that experienced team worth a damn.

 

[thetexan]

Actually I know exactly what I am talking about. They can have all the ad revenue they want, but if their platform is fragmented, sucks, and dies like WM then that doesn't quite serve their purpose well now does it?



I was talking about Microsoft's fluke of a success with their business model and how they locked in OEMs to Windows. All they have been doing ever since is trying desperately to stop their lock-in monopoly from falling apart, whether it be by illegally stopping competitors, making other crappy products to invade threatening competition and so on. Nice try though!

Apple's model that you are mocking is actually what the people are CHOOSING and praising, Windows never has been a choice, it is a decision that is made for people because OEMs are locked into it!

Unlike WM however, Android doesn't suck. WM was successful in the past because it was either that or RIM for smartphones. Now that there are choices, people are choosing others. Since Android is a great, solid platform it's not going to die off like WM did because Android is being used in different hardware platforms.

 

[cmaier]

Engineers that "design servers" are like people adapt at doing an excellent job of tinker toy construction. It's possible to design all kinds of things that are not viable to mass produce. That takes a whole different layer of thinking and experience. With efficent manufacturing there are tons of pitfalls to avoid that a "server designer" has no concept of existing.

Over the years Apple has honed its core skills to include years of experience at efficient manufacturing to produce reliable products. Even though they are now farming that out, their experiences in the past help them manage the process with minimum disruption to flow to market.

Management can buy an experienced team, but if management isn't grounded in the issues of manufacturing, they can not drive that experienced team worth a damn.

A lot of people said the same thing about Apple - that their PC experience wouldn't translate to cellphones.

Don't count google out. They've hired many of the brightest minds in silicon valley, including several people who I personally know who've designed some of the best consumer products out there.

 

[scottness]

Google hardware? I'm interested, though not enough to buy. Still happy with my 3g.

 

[Niko03]

I feel sorry for the people in the US who are stuck on AT&T. But here in vancouver (and Canada in general) the iphone has come to multiple carriers.. Rogers, Telus, Bell, and now Virgin.

I'm guessing it's just a matter of time it's not exclusive to AT&T

Any network has it's problems or weak areas.

I got a 3G in July 2008. Where I live and work north of Chicago , I can count on only one hand the number of dropped calls I've had in the past year and a half. I have no problem with AT&T thier network or service. I will admit that when Ive been in New Jersey I would get several dropped calls per week where I was working.

 

[NAG]

A lot of people said the same thing about Apple - that their PC experience wouldn't translate to cellphones.

Don't count google out. They've hired many of the brightest minds in silicon valley, including several people who I personally know who've designed some of the best consumer products out there.

It wasn't Apple's PC experience that let them make the iPhone. It was their interface design experience. Google doesn't have that same level of experience. Here is a url showing their servers off. Google's servers are great as they have pretty good uptime and I'm not aware of any huge data loss disasters. MobileMe launch is a great example of the difference between the two companies. Google can pull off servers, Apple can pull off gadgets. The whole "Apple is a PC company therefore cannot make phones" was wrong because they conveniently ignored why Apple made money selling computers. Doing the reverse and saying Google will make a great phone is just as foolish. And no, just buying people won't make you a good product.

FYI: I am not antigoogle or antiandroid or antiwhateverishotrightnow so anyone who is thinking about responding with that please just write out the responce but don't hit the submit button, thanks.

 

[cmaier]

It wasn't Apple's PC experience that let them make the iPhone. It was their interface design experience. Google doesn't have that same level of experience. Here is a url showing their servers off. Google's servers are great as they have pretty good uptime and I'm not aware of any huge data loss disasters. MobileMe launch is a great example of the difference between the two companies. Google can pull off servers, Apple can pull off gadgets. The whole "Apple is a PC company therefore cannot make phones" was wrong because they conveniently ignored why Apple made money selling computers. Doing the reverse and saying Google will make a great phone is just as foolish. And no, just buying people won't make you a good product.

FYI: I am not antigoogle or antiandroid or antiwhateverishotrightnow so anyone who is thinking about responding with that please just write out the responce but don't hit the submit button, thanks.

We already know what the google interface design will be - Android (in some form). It may not be as nice iPhone, but it's pretty nice. So if they can do the interface design, and they can do the hardware, then they can do the phone. That's my point.

If by interface design you mean the hardware interface, then, yes, google hasn't made a lot of user-friendly hardware interfaces. But they have people working there who have, including people in management.

I predict that if they do a phone (and I doubt they are), it will be very very nice.

 

[inkswamp]

Yes, it's certainly a different kind of hardware, but my point is that they do actually have a lot of people working there who came from places like DEC, HP, Sun, etc. where they were designing PCs, workstations, CPUs, etc. They don't have institutional experience, but they have a lot of people with individual experience.

I bet a lot of people at Apple have flipped burgers at one point or another too but that wouldn't give Apple any kind of competitive edge against McDonalds if Apple opened a burger joint.

A few individuals with a smattering of know-how in various fields doesn't add up to expertise on a company level, and consumer tech is as different from server and enterprise technology as it is from fast food.

 

[cmaier]

I bet a lot of people at Apple have flipped burgers at one point or another too but that wouldn't give Apple any kind of competitive edge against McDonalds if Apple opened a burger joint.

A few individuals with a smattering of know-how in various fields doesn't add up to expertise on a company level.

It's not "a few individuals with a smattering of know-how." They literally have been hiring the best and the brightest from throughout silicon valley. Again, your argument is akin to the bogus "Apple can't just hire a smattering of phone people and think they can do a phone" argument. Google has the right people, in the right positions, to do a phone if they want to. I don't think they want to. But if they do it, it will be in the same class as Pre, Droid, iPhone, etc.

 

[Resolution]

Umm... how much evidence do you require exactly?

BTW, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I don't take any joy in those news stories. I have no interest in seeing any product fail, but it would seem you're cherry-picking your Android-related news. Even a casual glance at the headlines shows it's not doing as well as hoped.

I posted one relevant and factual link to the Droid's current sales numbers in response to an obvious forum troll (not you) and you call that "cherry picking"? Please. Those links you listed are just random Android opinions from random journalists. I'm afraid you are reaching. My post was a response to a baseless "the Droid was a complete failure" statement and nothing more. Selling around 800,000 devices in less than a month may not be iPhone impressive, but it's still impressive nonetheless and hardly what I would consider a "failure". I should also add, as a comparison, that the Pre sold roughly 300,000 devices in its first month.

 

[inkswamp]

It's not "a few individuals with a smattering of know-how." They literally have been hiring the best and the brightest from throughout silicon valley. Again, your argument is akin to the bogus "Apple can't just hire a smattering of phone people and think they can do a phone" argument. Google has the right people, in the right positions, to do a phone if they want to. I don't think they want to. But if they do it, it will be in the same class as Pre, Droid, iPhone, etc.

There has to be a concentrated push to grow in that direction. Usually you see this outside of a company by job listings or when they buy up smaller companies with the expertise they need. Thus far, I've heard of none of that happening with Google as far as consumer electronics goes. (I could be wrong. Have they been doing that? If so, I haven't heard about it.) However, I stand by my statement that just having people in your ranks with that knowledge does not add up to company expertise.

BTW, Apple didn't make a phone. They made a smart phone which is closer to a computer and iPod than a phone. Do you really feel that's a parallel situation, that Google 2009 is every bit as ready to build consumer electronics as Apple was in 2007?

 

[cmaier]

There has to be a concentrated push to grow in that direction. Usually you see this outside of a company by job listings or when they buy up smaller companies with the expertise they need. Thus far, I've heard of none of that happening with Google as far as consumer electronics goes. (I could be wrong. Have they been doing that? If so, I haven't heard about it.) However, I stand by my statement that just having people in your ranks with that knowledge does not add up to company expertise.

BTW, Apple didn't make a phone. They made a smart phone which is closer to a computer and iPod than a phone. Do you really feel that's a parallel situation, that Google 2009 is every bit as ready to build consumer electronics as Apple was in 2007?

Google doesn't tend to hire by job listings for specific things. As I've said, repeatedly, they've hired many of the right people. If you are in Silicon Valley working for electronics companies, you undoubtedly know one or more people who've gone to google.

Your "smart phone" argument applies to the gPhone (which I still think doesn't exist) as much as the iPhone - google knows computers. In many ways, google is better equipped to do a phone than was apple - the whole point of a phone is to communicate. Without a network, it's nothing. And arguably no company knows networks better than google. I'm not saying google is better equipped than apple was - I'm just saying it's dumb to assume google can't do a good job of it; they have enough of the right people in the right positions to do it if they decide it's what they want to do (I just don't see why they would want to do it).

And, frankly, now that the way is clear (we've all seen the iphone, the pre, the droid, etc.) and the mistakes are well known, it's not going to be that hard to do decent hardware - the hard part for iPhone competitors so far has been (battery doors notwithstanding) the software.

Frankly, the institutional knowledge you keep harping on must not be that important - there have been some companies with many years of smartphone experience that have been blown out of the water by Apple. It just takes good people, and the right visionary with the right understanding of what consumers want, to get it done. Google has the right people. They may or may not have the right visionary, but at this point they can just copy iPhone and adapt Android, and the result would be pretty damned good. (Not an iPhone killer, of course).

 

[muskratboy]

"I went to a Thanksgiving dinner in the city"

"the city" ... haha! you east coasters are so silly. There ARE other cities, you know.

And in MY city, 3G works like a CHARM.

 

[inkswamp]

Your "smart phone" argument applies to the gPhone (which I still think doesn't exist) as much as the iPhone - google knows computers. In many ways, google is better equipped to do a phone than was apple - the whole point of a phone is to communicate. Without a network, it's nothing. And arguably no company knows networks better than google. I'm not saying google is better equipped than apple was - I'm just saying it's dumb to assume google can't do a good job of it

I'm not assuming anything. I'm speaking mainly to people who say Google is positioned to enter consumer electronics. I don't see anything to support that claim. You're citing something akin to insider knowledge of Silicon Valley but I don't put much stock in that. (Nothing personal. It's just not very convincing.)

Frankly, the institutional knowledge you keep harping on must not be that important - there have been some companies with many years of smartphone experience that have been blown out of the water by Apple.

I would argue that most of the hardware companies producing smart phones prior to the iPhone were hobbled by the telecoms and their own lack of vision, and did not actually have much of the expertise and vision many credit them with.