Google Pulls Fortnite From Play Store, But Game Remains Available Through Other Android Sources [Update: Epic Games Sues Google]

[bobbie424242]

Would love to see Google and Apple not back down on this, I guess Epic can come out with their own smartphones, iPads and Game Consoles...

Would love to see the top 20 apps developers removing all their apps simultaneously from both stores transforming devices into semi-bricks. Not that this will ever happen, but that'd be amusing.
And interestingly, in China, if WeChat is not installed, device is a brick. Speaking of which, I've never understood why WeChat is allowed as it surely break a lot of app store rules.

 

[brkage]

Epic is not the Epic, after China Tencent joined them.

 

[JM]

Sorry, but LOL. 😂

What is Epic doing? Next thing they'll sue Blackberry for going out of business and not have an app store they can sell on.

 

[Graphikos]

Would love to see Google and Apple not back down on this, I guess Epic can come out with their own smartphones, iPads and Game Consoles...

Brilliant! Buy an Epic Console and play any unreal engine game for free! Only those though... can't be supporting the competition. That works, right?

 

[TheSkywalker77]

This'll be fun to tell my friends who were criticizing Apple about this move and saying Google would never do the same thing .

 

[LFC2020]

Everybody is suing everybody, that mean I can sue apple, because the iPhone 12 is begging released late. 🤔

 

[JM]

If it's as easy as you say, all Epic needs to do is release their games that way. They could make an Epic Games Sideloader app to automate the process.

Or buy/build their own gaming system and sell that.

 

[SegNerd]

I don‘t understand this... if you KNOW the rules and agree to follow them... WHY would it be ok to just up and decide to break the rule you agreed to? Maybe I’m an overly simple person... but an agreement is like giving your word. What am I missing?

Um... the law? Well, maybe.

Suppose there is a restaurant that says “By entering this restaurant, you consent to being killed by an axe murderer.” You think it’s a joke so you head in, and you get slashed. It’s OK because you knew the rules, right?

Obviously not. It is possible to enter into a contract and then try to make an argument that the contract is illegal and thus unenforceable. I don’t know if Apple’s contract is illegal, but Epic obviously wants to find out.

 

[Ethosik]

I just saw this:

Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

Epic made the claim in a lawsuit filed Thursday.

www.theverge.com

[automerge]1597370523[/automerge]

Everybody is suing everybody, that mean I can sue apple, because the iPhone 12 is begging released late. 🤔

I mean you can technically sue anyone for anything. I still find it ridiculous that someone walking in my yard, and trips, they can sue me. You can even be sued for doing good things, unless your state has the Good Samaritan law.

 

[russell_314]

You can also sideload apps on iOS. This whole argument that apple's system is somehow more restrictive is absurd and untrue. Epic games is panicking because Tencent will soon be banned.

Well it is possible that they could be banned just like their buddies at Bytedance. I hope not because bans don’t really help anyone

 

[Altivec88]

Steam also takes 30% of the sale, but Steam also regularly discount games heavily. By comparison, Epic games store takes 12%. As an end user Steam has way more deals. I don't care how much money Epic, or Apple, or Google makes, I only care how much I have to pay, and if a beloved game developer is profitable.

Epic has to accept it cannot setup a platform on another platform and expect to be able steal the lunch of the platform it's on.

and what makes 12% the magic number. Their developers should do the same thing, sign a contract at 12%, try to circumvent payment, then launch a lawsuit saying 4% is all they want to pay.

 

[GregJohn]

People bashed Apple for doing this and then Google followed (as always)
Apple is far too large and powerful that Fortnite knows they will have to change because that’s one company they can’t push .

I’m sure they will just lower the prices overall

 

[minik]

Would love to see the top 20 apps developers removing all their apps simultaneously from both stores transforming devices into semi-bricks. Not that this will ever happen, but that'd be amusing.
And interestingly, in China, if WeChat is not installed, device is a brick. Speaking of which, I've never understood why WeChat is allowed as it surely break a lot of app store rules.

I hope not. TBH, I have WeChat on my phone to communicate with friends here and in Hong Kong. Apple has a channel on WeChat which I follows.

 

[JM]

I think Epic must have known this was going to happen. They flouted both App Store rules on purpose because they wanted to get this issue in front of a court.

They are hoping to get the public on their side by putting a very popular game in the middle of it.

I mean, Apple IS worth $460 a share, so why not? 😂

 

[thund3rcat]

30% cut is so steep, but it's that or nothing. I get upset about eBay 10% commission.

 

[the8thark]

and what makes 12% the magic number. Their developers should do the same thing, sign a contract at 12%, try to circumvent payment, then launch a lawsuit saying 4% is all they want to pay.

"Epic takes 12%. And if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%."

From epic's website.

 

[JM]

haha you need to remember a lot of google service is free but in mean time be warry either will be charge in next 2 year period or going down...

I wish Google WOULD charge for services... I'd feel better about using them.

 

[coolfactor]

Don't mistake 30% as benevolence either. It is even more pure greed.

Using an industry-standard markup is not greedy, per-se. I do agree that 30% is a tad high, and I welcome the pressure on Apple to continue evaluating their margins, but don't think that it's just "free money" for Apple.

Apple invests billions into developing and maintaining industry-leading development tools, data centres and customer support, and this is the value that developers get when they distribute apps through the App Store. Apple also has to pay for bandwidth to ship apps out to users.

Customers of app developers benefit greatly because of Apple's high standards. That is worth something. I belive the cost of lowering that quality of service is far greater than 30%.

It's a balancing act.

 

[Corsig]

Oh man this is getting good

 

[Graphikos]

"Epic takes 12%. And if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%."

From epic's website.

The perfect model for their new Phones, Tablets, and Consoles. #Fairness

 

[mdriftmeyer]

An Apple App Dev posted views on 30%

DOOManiac Ars Tribunus Militum
REPLYAUG 13, 2020 11:09 AM

• POPULAR

I don't know about Android, but this is absolutely 1000% against Apple's rules for doing in-app purchases on their platform. I'm curious to see how fast the ban hammer comes, and how this plays out.

[edit]
Well that didn't take long. Seems this whole thing was scripted from the start...
[/edit]

Given the work-to-cut ratio, 30% may have been fair a decade ago when there wasn't a new app every 10 seconds and you actually got something out of being on their store, but these days, with the economies of scale being what they are, its just way too much. Especially on in-app purchases.

But I do want to dispel the myth that Apple/Google/Steam are doing "nothing". Here's what me and my fellow developers are getting for our 30%:

- Credit Card transaction processing
- No liability from credit card processing. This is a big deal so I list it twice.
- Handles all refunds, stolen credit card chargebacks, fraud
- Placement (even if buried) on an easy to use store used by millions of customers
- Fast, reliable hosting & distribution on global CDNs
- Scheduled release times, possibly staggered by region
- Regional pricing (sometimes automatic)
- Platform services (user logins, leaderboards, in app purchases, authentication, anti-piracy measures)
- Maybe 5 minutes of marketing as your app/game shows up in the "new" section for the blink of an eye on launch day. Maybe.

Every time I get upset about the 30% cut I remember all this - especially credit card legal liabilities - and I am fine with it again. Would prefer if it was only 15% or 20%, but I would much rather have the status quo as it is now than have to deal with that mess myself.
Last edited by DOOManiac on Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:23 pm
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[JM]

Um... the law? Well, maybe.

Suppose there is a restaurant that says “By entering this restaurant, you consent to being killed by an axe murderer.” You think it’s a joke so you head in, and you get slashed. It’s OK because you knew the rules, right?

Obviously not. It is possible to enter into a contract and then try to make an argument that the contract is illegal and thus unenforceable. I don’t know if Apple’s contract is illegal, but Epic obviously wants to find out.

I hope I never sell in that axe murderer app store. That doesn't sound fun. 😂

 

[Seend1983]

Epic Games is a multi-billion dollar game company and they're trying to play the innocent little victim? And sheeps are buying into it like sheeps always do. They have a problem with Apple getting their 30% cut for bringing the App Store to existence but its fine and dandy for them to charge kids $7.99 for imaginary "currency" so they can roll the dice with in-game lootboxes - essentially teaching kids to gamble.

I am willing to guarantee that if Apple ever drops their 30% cut, in-app purchases across the App Store aren't going to suddenly discount by 30%. Rather, these developers would keep the price as it is and pocket the change as extra profit.

This fight is about who's pocket the money should go into, pure and simple.

If anything needs to be regulated, it's the gaming industry. They're getting more outrageous and predatory by the day.

 

[rweston002]

So Apple creates a successful marketplace and, because of their success, they should be punished? How do you think all those free iOS updates are paid for? By hardware sales alone? By agreeing to Apple's Appstore terms, the developer is agreeing to release 30% of their sale to Apple in exchange for a stable platform that improves over time. Someone had to build the API that makes putting Fortnite on iOS even possible. Or would you, the customer, rather pay for iOS updates and security patches? We've seen how low-margin Android phones fare--they get no updates after a year or two. In the end, the customers always pay, so disrupting the market just means you will pay in new and unknown ways in the future. There is no free lunch here, and the blockbuster apps do more of the paying that the little guy developer does.

after a year or two... Plenty of low-margin Android phones ship with outdated (and not easy to update version of android) now (Thanks to manufacturers, and carriers - not google).

i was reading recently about an exploit (DSP, qualcom, etc) not the point, but one persons response was great. To paraphrase: “where right now we’re talking about how this could be fixed, if at all, and an update reach all affected devices, if this were Apple/iOS we’d be talking about did you grab the fix Apple released yesterday for it...” Apple can release an iOS update with bug fixes, features, etc, for several years of devices and it and be on 50%+ of all devices within weeks... thats a lot of data... that’s a lot development, testing (Yes not always perfect - who is), that costs money.

people are (epic is) getting greedy. I dont post much but was just posting the same over at Apple insider (this is greed):

The annual $99, which even I (gladly) pay, doesn’t mean that if I have a massively popular free app which Apple hosts and distributes for me, securely, securing an OS which people trust (for x number of years across x number of devices, with regular updates), and so many other unconsidered features/services, that that costs them nothing?

how can people say that costs them nothing? An argument about how much it costs them would make more sense, but even there, when you look at what people used to pay to distribute on mobile before for a fraction (orders of magnitude smaller!!!) of the reach, 30% is not horrible.

And this is not an Apple bubble / blind defense thing. This is greed. A thriving marketplace was established and now people/companies want to dismantle it. Apple built iOS, so now they should let everyone and their mother launch their own app stores, payment systems, oh and now Apple can’t update their!! OS (we own the phone, not the OS) because they have to worry about who’s going to sue them when their app breaks saying Apple broke their app on purpose (actually because they dont want to or aren’t forced to keep up with technology or bug fix their App Store).

people, perspective. I do not miss loading games on a TI calculator or playing snake on my Nokia!! As much fun as those were at the time...

 

[Appleman3546]

At least Fortnite can still distribute their app on Android devices. It's pathetic that Apple will allow browser downloads on the Mac, but not on the iOS app store...Apple is that scared of competition.