Google Says Assistant Works With Over 5,000 Smart Home Devices, HomeKit/Siri Around 200

[Stryder541]

Oh my God, you're right just because something is theoretically possible it means I've automatically fallen fowl to said hack and now I'm a bad internet citizen because I've unwittingly become part of the problem and I'm spoiling it for everyone else who are absolutely paranoid and can't see why everyone-one else isn't.

Theoretically? Again a very ignorant statement. We see daily DDoS attacks on our 600 state-wide networks ranging from from 10 Mb/s to over 10 Gb/s with 50 to 90,000 devices involved. More and more of these devices are from IoT in homes and businesses. Not sure if your lazy or just stubborn. A simple search on “DDoS IoT hacks” will show this is hardly a theoretical problem. I say again, educate yourself.

 

[i-John]

This is like Cable TV. You may pay for 500 channels, but you only really watch only a handful. Google may have hooked up with 5000 services, but realistically if most people use a handful in the 200 that Apple supports, its covered.

Not really an apples to apples comparison. Cable forces you to pay for the 500 channels if you want the handful. I don't think Google is forcing you to buy all the products to be able to use just the ones you want. It would be like your Cable TV offering 500 channels and giving you the choice of which ones you wanted, which would be awesome.

This gives you actual choice. There are different companies with different choices of similar products, so you have a choice of what you want and what fits you best. There is a wider range of applications and devices. If one doesn't meet your need exactly as you want, you don't have to compromise, you simply choose another product that actually does things the way you want. Sadly, with Apple the choice isn't there. If it doesn't work the way you want, you have to compromise and you have to change.

I'd love it to be better, but it simply isn't. Siri is sub-standard, and consumer choice is limited.

 

[lec0rsaire]

Apple has dropped their lead in the AI voice assistant business just like Microsoft botched their lead in the web browser and search business. Apple had a huge lead with Siri and there’s really no excuse for them to behind both Google and Amazon.

 

[trusso]

Connected homes and appliances are definitely cool, no doubt there. But I, for one, don't subscribe to the love affair we're supposed to have with this futuristic ideal. Big tech wants to sell us stuff (no news there!), but how many of us have stopped to ask if that's really in our best interest? Besides, technology of any kind never achieves our ideals; it merely replaces one set of problems with another.

Trust me, when everything is connected, the most secure things will be those that are off the grid.

 

[T-R-S]

How much home automation do you really need?
Lights, heat,cooling, Vacuum cleaner probably/maybe, a door lock? ( not me )
I certainly don't need my toothbrush, coffee pot, refrigerator, washing machine to be connected to the internet

 

[avanpelt]

HVAC professionals think Nest sucks, so there's that. A 'learning' thermostat is inferior to one that uses geofencing to tell the instant the last person leaves the home to turn on Away mode and the instant someone arrives back home to go to Home or Sleep mode, ie ecobee. Nest is even copying one of ecobees best features.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?2023171-That-s-the-20th-NEST-Thermostat-I-ve-had-to-pull-out

Painting with a broad brush, much? Clearly, not all HVAC professionals think Nest sucks because you can go on the Nest website and find plenty of Nest "Pro" installers who are all in the HVAC business. If they thought the product sucked, I don't think they'd be installing them and also selling them bundled with extended warranties that they (the HVAC company) have to service.

Secondly, the "learning" component of the Nest thermostats can easily be turned off. It's a simple toggle in the app. I did that on day one because my family doesn't follow a set schedule and I don't want a thermostat changing the temperature by itself if my family is in the house. Our Nest thermostats (we have two) are set up exactly as you described with the ecobee. There is a Home and an Away mode and the geofence is based on the location of each family member's phone. If even one person's phone is near the house, the thermostats do not switch to Away mode. If our phones are all out of the house for an extended period of time (at least an hour-ish), the thermostats automatically switch to Away/Eco mode.

 

[dirt_farmer]

IOT is coming whether you or I or Apple wants it to.

The only question is who owns the space.

Seems Apple would rather relinquish it than spend the resources needed to dominate it.

This is the expected approach of Tim Cook's Apple: Don't take risks for fear of hurting the stock price and the balance sheet.

Steve's Apple would have KILLED the space using genius and vision, and worried about the stock price later...if at all.

 

[BuffaloTF]

That would defeat HomeKit’s security. But you can do that already with (for example) IFTT. I have several HomeKit and non-HomeKit devices and for all practical purposes, I can make them work together however I wish.

IFTTT sucks... just make it work the right way with Alexa, which nobody is catching up to.
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Painting with a broad brush, much? Clearly, not all HVAC professionals think Nest sucks because you can go on the Nest website and find plenty of Nest "Pro" installers who are all in the HVAC business. If they thought the product sucked, I don't think they'd be installing them and also selling them bundled with extended warranties that they (the HVAC company) have to service.

Secondly, the "learning" component of the Nest thermostats can easily be turned off. It's a simple toggle in the app. I did that on day one because my family doesn't follow a set schedule and I don't want a thermostat changing the temperature by itself if my family is in the house. Our Nest thermostats (we have two) are set up exactly as you described with the ecobee. There is a Home and an Away mode and the geofence is based on the location of each family member's phone. If even one person's phone is near the house, the thermostats do not switch to Away mode. If our phones are all out of the house for an extended period of time (at least an hour-ish), the thermostats automatically switch to Away/Eco mode.

HVAC installers do think Nest sucks, cuz Nest sucks.

Just because they’re willing to accept money for people’s poor choices isn’t them endorsing it. It can’t even keep an accurate temperature.

 

[341328]

Yup. I have Google mini and I say 'ok Google' and 'hey Google!', both works.

And google sends everything you say to their DB and AI systems. Congrats.

 

[76morgan]

I have a few smart plugs that work with both HomeKit and Alexa, and Alexa works absolutely flawlessly. HomeKit is like asking your 12 year old to dump the trash, if it doesn’t happen immediately, you end up doing it yourself after asking Siri several times. I want to like HomeKit because of its app and ease of setup, but Siri is just unreliable and the devices are constantly updating in the HomeKit app so you can’t turn it on or off. For me, Alexa just works.

 

[Michael Goff]

And google sends everything you say to their DB and AI systems. Congrats.

And Siri sends the audio files from your Home pod over the internet to fairy land, right?

 

[selfsilent]

Good going. It’s just like Android phones. It’s all about quantity, not quality and nothing about security.

 

[vipergts2207]

Painting with a broad brush, much? Clearly, not all HVAC professionals think Nest sucks because you can go on the Nest website and find plenty of Nest "Pro" installers who are all in the HVAC business. If they thought the product sucked, I don't think they'd be installing them and also selling them bundled with extended warranties that they (the HVAC company) have to service.

Secondly, the "learning" component of the Nest thermostats can easily be turned off. It's a simple toggle in the app. I did that on day one because my family doesn't follow a set schedule and I don't want a thermostat changing the temperature by itself if my family is in the house. Our Nest thermostats (we have two) are set up exactly as you described with the ecobee. There is a Home and an Away mode and the geofence is based on the location of each family member's phone. If even one person's phone is near the house, the thermostats do not switch to Away mode. If our phones are all out of the house for an extended period of time (at least an hour-ish), the thermostats automatically switch to Away/Eco mode.

If you’re an HVAC installer and your client insists on Nest, do you think the installer going to walk away from the deal because the client insists on a Nest? No, they’ll give their recommendation and then do whatever the client wants because they want to make the money installing the HVAC. Obviously not every HVAC company and technician hates Nest, but I know they’re not looked highly upon by a significant number of them.

Thanks to HomeKit, thermostats like ecobee can switch basically instantaneously to Away/Home upon leaving or arrival, minimizing energy use and maximizing savings.

 

[technole]

Apple got a late start and it's their fault. To get even get HomeKit support on some products you may have to buy more hardware than out of the box like an additional hub

Whereas Google and Alexa can support these out-of-the-box.

I use Nest, but it's not a deal breaker as I use the app more often than Alexa for that. Still, HomeKit is part of Apple's downside.

 

[Flight Plan]

Siri sucks.

Please please, Apple, fix Siri! I use Google now for a lot of things that Siri just cannot do for me. Now I'm getting, "I'm sorry Flight Plan, I cannot do that". All I want to do is set my alarm to wake me upin the morning.

 

[avanpelt]

IFTTT sucks... just make it work the right way with Alexa, which nobody is catching up to.
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HVAC installers do think Nest sucks, cuz Nest sucks.

Just because they’re willing to accept money for people’s poor choices isn’t them endorsing it. It can’t even keep an accurate temperature.

Gee, IFTTT sucks, Nest sucks...what DOESN’T suck in your book?

 

[Michael Goff]

Good going. It’s just like Android phones. It’s all about quantity, not quality and nothing about security.

When it comes to these things, having almost no choices comparatively does hurt you.

 

[1rottenapple]

I love my Nest home. The ecosystem works very well IME.

Ya I agree. I’m getting the temp sensor which was the one thing I didn’t like about it but I knew it was coming out when I bought it.

Also getting the smoke detector and eventually the security. And maybe cameras.

 

[Quu]

They're not wrong and I think most of this is due to Apples original requirement that Homekit devices use a hardware encryption chip and be certified by Apple. Since they relaxed those restrictions to only requiring software based encryption and no certification it has expanded the range quite a bit.

I recently purchased a Dyson Purifier/Fan which has Alexa support officially from Dyson but it lacks Siri and Google Home support. However due to Apples lowered requirements I was able to get the fan working with Siri by using Homebridge which is an open source piece of software that presents itself to Homekit as a hub and from there you can write plugins that interface with various smart devices for which there is no official Homekit support.

By using this I can view the status of the fan, the temperature and humidity of the room it's in as-well as control its speed, oscillation and purification-only modes. And of course it all works with Siri too.

So while there is a large gap between Siri and Google Home / Alexa when it comes to compatible devices there are ways that you can get around it, there's already over 700 plugins for Homebridge available for everything from AC Units and Fans to door locks, cameras and so on.

 

[wozmatic]

I’m into home automating devices, I’ve got a bunch (around 10) of them and HomeKit only works with one.

Same, only HUE works for me and even the commands are pretty limited.

Sad

 

[DeepIn2U]

True. But 5000 gives me an option to choose different vendor with different pricing to my liking. But with 200, I may not have that option. But then with Apple homekit integration, I don't expect cheaper price.

I think Google is winning not just with device support but mostly with the mindset with such an ad!

Just look at the post above, one of many in this thread. Automatically thinking that choice offers price variance to equate to a good thing.

One has to really think about this:

There is about what .... 3 major thermostats available that are under the $200 price range that are VERY good if not darn perfected! OF these 1 major brand has evolved their leading product thrice ... splitting 1 sub model into a lower price range.

Just like the options for LED lights ... at first I thought why do I need Philips Hue ... the idea is cool but why? Now I'm seeing it as a nice security deterent (like car alarm based on gyroscope sensors or lock sensors, or garage/walkway to house motion light sensors) as long as some thief thinks your home the thought of stealing drops. Yet there are habitual benefits like waking up nicely (like that in the summer ... winters are VERY gloomy here in Ontario Canada - for me as an insomniac) so sleep is critical, health benefit. But I'm not lighting up my condo like a video game wall. I'm about to replace old school bulbs to benefit the power drain so financial investment.

Yet there are a LOT more options for smart lights vs door locks or security camera's in the home.

Security cameras: TO me if a thief is breaking in your home ... 1) they don't care you know what they look like, or 2) they've prepared to steal from door/window/garage entrance - many dawn the mask right outside. So where is my peek hole camera (maybe one with 2-way camera and a side screen for when I'm home looking outside?!!! May theives stealing in a condominium look inconspicous in the hallway, cover the face and hands, then just before opening the main door drop the mask again - perfect opportunity to catch them on both sides of the door!

^ in that scenario how many options do you really have in the 5000 vs 200 on both sides? How many are under $500?!!

Let's not assume that "many" options automatically gives us economies of scale to benefit features and price towards the end consumer. These are still niche markets there a millions or billion of people yet to see the need for smart home equipment and many still live in the western 1st world countries.

There are other devices like a connected Fridge Coffee table available at BestBuy. Seriously? Do you or anyone else that stores Pop, Snacks, dips, and beer into a cooler or mini bar fridge REALLY need it to be connected? You're still going to physcially open it (and if you're too lazy to open a door less than bending forward and reaching arm and arm's length away ... then you DESERVE to weigh 300lbs+ in a fat body and eat McDonald's every day ... supersize me!
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Same, only HUE works for me and even the commands are pretty limited.

Sad

What other commands would you like Hue to really do? I'm thinking of buying a kit so I'm honest in asking this question. Like "Siri dance party" is going to do something unique and appeasing to you and guests vs "Siri, Sunday night reading" ?

 

[jazzhustler]

What no one has mentioned thus far, is that unlike Alexa and Google Assistant, only Siri can speak and understand Mandarin. So, my Taiwanese wife can easily control our Homekit devices in her own language - assuming I name these devices in Mandarin. You can't currently do this with Alexa or Google Assistant and you can't even buy an Alexa device in Asia right now, although the Google Home Mini has been seen in a few online stores in Asia. Apple has a headstart here, but I wonder if they'll take advantage. Funnily enough, despite tons of smart stuff being made in China & Taiwan, the take up is incredibly low at the moment, at least in Taiwan, where I live.

 

[BlargKing]

So how friendly is HomeKit to the DIYer though? Its easy to make DIY smarthome gadgets that work with Google Home and Amazon Echo, not to mention dirt cheap thanks to Arduino and things like the ESP8266. Not to mention the plethora of easy home automation sites like IFTTT.

I get the feeling I cant just smash together something with an Arduino and a WiFi module and get it to work with HomeKit. If thats the case, then Apples smarthome stuff is missing out on the DIYer demographic, and that demographic are often the first to dip their toes into a new ecosystem and come up with innovative ideas.

 

[Dysnomia]

While I appreciate Apple’s commitment to higher security, at some point they are keeping themselves out of the market and need to work with their partners and hopeful partners to open things up a little bit.

A lack of devices and supported types of devices makes better security a non issue where there are no devices.

 

[ersan191]

So how friendly is HomeKit to the DIYer though? Its easy to make DIY smarthome gadgets that work with Google Home and Amazon Echo, not to mention dirt cheap thanks to Arduino and things like the ESP8266. Not to mention the plethora of easy home automation sites like IFTTT.

I get the feeling I cant just smash together something with an Arduino and a WiFi module and get it to work with HomeKit. If thats the case, then Apples smarthome stuff is missing out on the DIYer demographic, and that demographic are often the first to dip their toes into a new ecosystem and come up with innovative ideas.

HomeKit + homebridge is very powerful, and as far as I'm concerned HomeKit's occupancy detection (which is always hard to get perfect in most DIY setups) is second to none if your family has Apple products.

With homebridge, HomeKit's supported device list handily trumps Alexa and Google's, making this article completely incorrect if you are even remotely good at DIY (which is what home automation used to be about before it went mainstream).

IMO HomeKit is superior to both other platforms (and I use that term loosely, Alexa and Google are basically very dumb clients) in every single conceivable way, it's a shame the lack of built-in device support gives it such a bad rap and spawns uninformed articles like this. Locking out HomeKit via hardware was probably the dumbest thing Apple could have done.