Google Stands Behind HTC in Patent Dispute With Apple

[lex750]

Typical iPhone customer:

June 2007:

http://gizmodo.com/266786/top-8-indicators-that-youll-line-up-for-an-iphone

http://www.srgnet.com/pdf/iPhoneBuyersAnalysisJune07.pdf

http://liesdamnedliesstatistics.com...-better-educated-than-other-mobile-users.html

http://www.forrester.com/rb/Research/working_iphone_owners_tap_mobile_internet/q/id/54522/t/2

The iPhone demographic: Richer, younger, better educated than other mobile users
JUNE 22, 2009



Perhaps not a huge surprise, but a Forrester study (via the Denver Egotist) shows that the average iPhone user is more likely to be from generation Y (DOB 1980 onwards), college / University educated and richer than other smart phone users.

Also, as you’d expect given the user friendliness of the iPhone, they are much more likely to access the Internet via their mobiles.

And - good news for employers. According to Apple Insider, “The research suggests that an employee with an iPhone could be more productive:

“Those who carry Apple’s handheld device are more likely to stay connected to their employer’s network. Workers with an iPhone also usually leave their laptop at work, suggesting the phone essentially replaces the need for a traditional full-form mobile computer.”



Now back to the *actual* discussion . . . .

So iPhone are not popular with poor, uneducated, minority folks.

I bet that makes you feel good about yourself, don't it.

Thanks for the useless post of the day.

 

[darkplanets]

You guys act as if this is something new...

All companies try to steal, no, rather, I'll use the term "borrow" lesser patents without licensing them-- until they get caught. It's just a perpetual cat and mouse game, which goes on until it becomes harmful to continue without settlement and/or licensing.

It's only the major patents that really get licensed from the get-go, as a necessity. In a few cases though, even these get ignored (I'm looking at you, Apple). Although, in Apple's case, it is some what convoluted as failure to offer FRAND... blah blah blah... everyone has talked about that.

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that all big companies that can afford the lawsuits and settlements steal, in the interest of saving money or releasing a product. Apple stole from Nokia, albeit the terms were a bit unusual. Apple probably stole from Kodak, as did RIM. Did Google steal from Apple? More than likely. Is all of this intentional? Probably not. There is significant patent trolling occurring nowadays. What else is new?

 

[kobewankenobi]

If your going to quote someone why don't you actually watch the video and quote what they actually says. He never said, "Ultimately it comes down to taste." You also did not quote correctly the part where he says "We have always been, I've been shameless about stealing great ideas." But he caught himself after he realized he just put his foot in his mouth. Try watching the video again.

Fact is that Apple steals other peoples ideas AND tech, then they don't want to pay for them.

Nokia's GSM case in point. Everyone pays Nokia, why not Apple?

You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

too bad u dont know what u r talking about
apple wants to pay nokia
apple just does not want to pay nokia more than every other company is paying, which for apple seems unfair
so check your facts, ok?

 

[*LTD*]

If your going to quote someone why don't you actually watch the video and quote what they actually says. He never said, "Ultimately it comes down to taste." You also did not quote correctly the part where he says "We have always been, I've been shameless about stealing great ideas." But he caught himself after he realized he just put his foot in his mouth. Try watching the video again.

Fact is that Apple steals other peoples ideas AND tech, then they don't want to pay for them.

Nokia's GSM case in point. Everyone pays Nokia, why not Apple?

You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

More trolling? Here is the quotation, verbatim:

"It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things humans have done, and then try to bring those things in to what you’re doing. I mean, Picasso had a saying . . . He said "good artists copy, great artists steal." And we have always, you know, been shameless about stealing great ideas. Um . . . and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians, and poets, and artists, and zoologists, and historians . . . who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world."

Here's what I wrote, differences in red:

"Ultimately it comes down to taste. It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you’re doing. I mean Picasso had a saying - he said good artists copy great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas, and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians and poets and artists and zoologists and historians who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world."


Apple does the industry's R&D for them. In fact, what Apple is *actually* known for (outside the Apple tech site bubble) is innovation. Simple as that. Everyone else trying to make their products more "mac-like" - that's all you hear. Everyone getting their also-ran devices compared to the iPhone.

Your accusation of "theft" - in whatever sense (Lord knows where you came up with that idea), comes down to Apple freely taking ideas (which happen to be everywhere - often with people whom Apple has hired), patenting them, and putting them to use in technology, while leveraging their pool of talent like no one else. That's why they're unique in the industry, and that's why they lead this half-asleep industry in innovation and development.

 

[lex750]

too bad u dont know what u r talking about
apple wants to pay nokia
apple just does not want to pay nokia more than every other company is paying, which for apple seems unfair
so check your facts, ok?

Provide a link to your "facts", if you can't, then it's just your opinion.

 

[bks691]

They dont own a google phone, they own a Iphone... having backlash against google means nothing...

At the end of the day, user would be missing apps that were once their... and give apples controversal app approval and removal processes, users would assume it was another "apple decision" to remove said apps

Meh, maybe you worship google and have everything google on your phone but most people don't! Most people don't use the google map app that ships with the iPhone. Besides, Apple bought their own freaking map company! like I said before " there is some big time privacy concerns when it comes to google. I think back to the day when all of googles voice call records were on an easy google search for everyone in the world to see, no thanks. And then google buzz, yeah right! "

 

[Lazerlike42]

More trolling? Here is the quotation, verbatim:

"It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things humans have done, and then try to bring those things in to what you’re doing. I mean, Picasso had a saying . . . He said "good artists copy, great artists steal." And we have always, you know, been shameless about stealing great ideas. Um . . . and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians, and poets, and artists, and zoologists, and historians . . . who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world."

Here's what I wrote, differences in red:

"Ultimately it comes down to taste. It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you’re doing. I mean Picasso had a saying - he said good artists copy great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas, and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians and poets and artists and zoologists and historians who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world."


Apple does the industry's R&D for them. In fact, what Apple is *actually* known for (outside the Apple tech site bubble) is innovation. Simple as that. Everyone else trying to make their products more "mac-like" - that's all you hear. Everyone getting their also-ran devices compared to the iPhone.

Your accusation of "theft" - in whatever sense (Lord knows where you came up with that idea), comes down to Apple freely taking ideas (which happen to be everywhere - often with people whom Apple has hired), patenting them, and putting them to use in technology, while leveraging their pool of talent like no one else. That's why they're unique in the industry, and that's why they lead this half-asleep industry in innovation and development.

You're correct that Jobs wasn't talking about infringing on patents. He certainly didn't mean that they're shameless about violating legal IP rights.

However, he absolutely DID mean that they have no problem with taking other people's ideas, whether by acquiring them through business deals or just plain taking things that companies and individuals never bothered to patent/copyright.

Apple - and specifically Apple under Steve Jobs has always been hugely about taking good ideas from elsewhere and trying to make them their own.

 

[dgree03]

Meh, maybe you worship google and have everything google on your phone but most people don't! Most people don't use the google map app that ships with the iPhone. Besides, Apple bought their own freaking map company! like I said before " there is some big time privacy concerns when it comes to google. I think back to the day when all of googles voice call records were on an easy google search for everyone in the world to see, no thanks. And then google buzz, yeah right! "

Most people dont use it? Prove it... i love your generalizations tho! Your funny..

Hey if your worried about privacy dont us any form of communication... just sit in a box in a cold dark basement..

 

[Lazerlike42]

Meh, maybe you worship google and have everything google on your phone but most people don't! Most people don't use the google map app that ships with the iPhone. Besides, Apple bought their own freaking map company! like I said before " there is some big time privacy concerns when it comes to google. I think back to the day when all of googles voice call records were on an easy google search for everyone in the world to see, no thanks. And then google buzz, yeah right! "

Everybody I know that owns an iPhone uses the Google Maps

 

[*LTD*]

Provide a link to your "facts", if you can't, then it's just your opinion.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/12/apple-calls-nokia-a-copycat-in-patent-countersuit.ars

Unsurprisingly, Apple's position is quite a bit different from Nokia's. Apple says it hasn't infringed on Nokia's patents in its implementation of the iPhone and that Nokia's intellectual property isn't even essential to GSM and UMTS technology in the first place. Apple also says that Nokia demanded terms for its license agreement that weren't reasonable, leading Apple to supposedly develop its own technologies.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10413848-260.html?tag=mncol;txt

In its countersuit, Apple denies Nokia's claims of copyright violation, saying that the licenses Nokia insists Apple and other smartphone makers pay are "unfair, unreasonable, and discriminatory" and "non-essential" to the iPhone. Apple is also asking the court to dismiss Nokia's suit, and goes so far as to accuse Nokia of borrowing some of Apple's intellectual property because it was losing market share.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/12/11/apple_files_countersuit_against_nokia.html

In its defense, Apple has argued that Nokia's patents are all related to standards, which means they have been committed to be licensed freely and without discrimination by Nokia. Nokia's own complaint seeks special licensing terms from Apple, and access to the company's own patents.

Apple has alleged that Nokia is attempting to obtain more money from it than other companies, plus rights to Apple's intellectual property -- all after the Finnish company has committed itself to nondiscriminatory licensing.

"In dealing with Apple, Nokia has sought to gain an unjust competitive advantage over Apple by charging unwarranted fees to use patents that allegedly cover industry compatibility standards and by seeking to obtain access to Apple's intellectual property," the suit reads. "Nokia needs access to Apple's intellectual property because Nokia has copied and is now using that patented technology."



Owned.

Anything else we can help you with?

 

[kobewankenobi]

Provide a link to your "facts", if you can't, then it's just your opinion.

i couldnt find the original link i read it from

ltd did though

 

[bstag]

Everybody I know that owns an iPhone uses the Google Maps

Everybody I know doesn't use the google maps. There are far better choices in the app store.

 

[dgree03]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/12/apple-calls-nokia-a-copycat-in-patent-countersuit.ars

Unsurprisingly, Apple's position is quite a bit different from Nokia's. Apple says it hasn't infringed on Nokia's patents in its implementation of the iPhone and that Nokia's intellectual property isn't even essential to GSM and UMTS technology in the first place. Apple also says that Nokia demanded terms for its license agreement that weren't reasonable, leading Apple to supposedly develop its own technologies.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10413848-260.html?tag=mncol;txt

In its countersuit, Apple denies Nokia's claims of copyright violation, saying that the licenses Nokia insists Apple and other smartphone makers pay are "unfair, unreasonable, and discriminatory" and "non-essential" to the iPhone. Apple is also asking the court to dismiss Nokia's suit, and goes so far as to accuse Nokia of borrowing some of Apple's intellectual property because it was losing market share.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/12/11/apple_files_countersuit_against_nokia.html

In its defense, Apple has argued that Nokia's patents are all related to standards, which means they have been committed to be licensed freely and without discrimination by Nokia. Nokia's own complaint seeks special licensing terms from Apple, and access to the company's own patents.

Apple has alleged that Nokia is attempting to obtain more money from it than other companies, plus rights to Apple's intellectual property -- all after the Finnish company has committed itself to nondiscriminatory licensing.

"In dealing with Apple, Nokia has sought to gain an unjust competitive advantage over Apple by charging unwarranted fees to use patents that allegedly cover industry compatibility standards and by seeking to obtain access to Apple's intellectual property," the suit reads. "Nokia needs access to Apple's intellectual property because Nokia has copied and is now using that patented technology."



Owned.

Anything else we can help you with?

Apple developed its own GSM technologies... wow I didnt know that.

Has this suit been put to rest yet?

 

[lex750]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/12/apple-calls-nokia-a-copycat-in-patent-countersuit.ars

Unsurprisingly, Apple's position is quite a bit different from Nokia's. Apple says it hasn't infringed on Nokia's patents in its implementation of the iPhone and that Nokia's intellectual property isn't even essential to GSM and UMTS technology in the first place. Apple also says that Nokia demanded terms for its license agreement that weren't reasonable, leading Apple to supposedly develop its own technologies.


Owned.

Anything else we can help you with?

I was not responding to you first of all. Secondly the person who I was responding to claims the Nokia, wants to charge Apple MORE than they are charging anyone else. NONE of your links back up that poster's claim.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

They dont own a google phone, they own a Iphone... having backlash against google means nothing...

At the end of the day, user would be missing apps that were once their... and give apples controversal app approval and removal processes, users would assume it was another "apple decision" to remove said apps

Meh, maybe you worship google and have everything google on your phone but most people don't! Most people don't use the google map app that ships with the iPhone. Besides, Apple bought their own freaking map company! like I said before " there is some big time privacy concerns when it comes to google. I think back to the day when all of googles voice call records were on an easy google search for everyone in the world to see, no thanks. And then google buzz, yeah right! "

Got any proof that "most" people don't use Google maps? Or are we basing that on Google hatred opinion?

 

[dgree03]

Everybody I know doesn't use the google maps. There are far better choices in the app store.

Better than free? I didnt know there were free map apps in the app store?

For NAVIGATION, then obviously you must download tom tom or navigon to get a navi at about 50-90 dollars... you must know alot of wasteful people to pay that much for a phone navi app.

 

[Erwin-Br]

You're correct that Jobs wasn't talking about infringing on patents. He certainly didn't mean that they're shameless about violating legal IP rights.

However, he absolutely DID mean that they have no problem with taking other people's ideas, whether by acquiring them through business deals or just plain taking things that companies and individuals never bothered to patent/copyright.

Apple - and specifically Apple under Steve Jobs has always been hugely about taking good ideas from elsewhere and trying to make them their own.

Exactly. It's way off-topic, and therefore perhaps confusing, but what I meant to say is that I find it very ironic that this company is always making fun of Microsoft taking other people's ideas, while apparently they do the same thing. - I'm not talking about patent infringement here, mind you.

 

[*LTD*]

Apple developed its own GSM technologies... wow I didnt know that.

Has this suit been put to rest yet?

No. It might take a while. I think it might just end up with Apple and Nokia coming to an agreement on the licensing fees under discussion, with all other allegations dropped. However, that guess is as good as anyone else's.

 

[megadon]

This sounds like the AT&T case against Verizon. Apple is getting scared and the only way is to sue, pretty sad.

 

[kobewankenobi]

I was not responding to you first of all. Secondly the person who I was responding to claims the Nokia, wants to charge Apple MORE than they are charging anyone else. NONE of your links back up that poster's claim.

read again

In dealing with Apple, Nokia has sought to gain an unjust competitive advantage over Apple by charging unwarranted fees to use patents that allegedly cover industry compatibility standards and by seeking to obtain access to Apple's intellectual property," the suit reads. "Nokia needs access to Apple's intellectual property because Nokia has copied and is now using that patented technology."

 

[*LTD*]

Exactly. It's way off-topic, and therefore perhaps confusing, but what I meant to say is that I find it very ironic that this company is always making fun of Microsoft taking other people's ideas, while apparently they do the same thing. - I'm not talking about patent infringement here, mind you.

The answer would be is that MS does it poorly, is too obvious about it, and usually ends up looking stupid. That's assuming you think there's any real substance behind the allegation that Apple is a "thief" of some kind (for comparison's sake.)

 

[lex750]

He's asking about your age because you're getting owned (again) left and right in this thread, and are coming back for more.

I don't take any of this personally. So I really don't care what you think. You on the other hand you with your "troll" and "owned" comments seem to get a rise out of this. Hate to be you.

 

[ChazUK]

I don't take any of this personally. So I really don't care what you think. You on the other hand you with your "troll" and "owned" comments seem to get a rise out of this. Hate to be you.

I love those that question your age, yet are fine with others using childish terms like 'OWNED'

LTD PWNZ0R J00 N00B!

 

[aegisdesign]

Does Nokia have the right to tell Apple and only Apple, "Give me access to the cool parts iPhone and OS plus 3-5 times regular license fee and a box of chocolates for me mum every week and then I'll license my patents to you." Apple doesn't think so.

No Nokia doesn't, but they didn't anyway so what exactly is your point?

 

[ChazUK]

Everybody I know doesn't use the google maps. There are far better choices in the app store.

Everybody I know who own iPhones have been so impressed with my Nexus One that they want one.
There are far better choices in the smartphone arena.

(In fact, a few who have seen them are going to import one like I did)

It's what he'd likely understand. Sometimes you have to speak their language. After all, he doesn't seem to understand that which has already been explained to him several times.

All said in jest LTD.

(Consider me PWNT!) I love these boards.