Greg Joswiak's Feature Presentation

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by KrazyKidd
im sure there were a lot of nissan fans waiting for a new 350z to come out. Should that go with the 300zx or keep waiting. Both are great cars, but the 350z....the 350z was gonna be so nice and great and better. Who wants to spend $$$$ on a car thats good but outdated when its obivious that a new model thats better and faster etc. is coming out soon.

WHy should i spend hard earned money on something thats good, but outdated. The G4 PowerMac was awesome, dual 1.25 Ghz, it ran the programs great. The G5 had to come out tho, even though the g4 was good. I believe that patience is the key, but a lot of us have been patient for a while.

First off, what's "outdated" about it? There is no faster portable G4 for you to buy instead; that makes it top of the line, not outdated.

Sure, there are faster desktop processors-- but I could buy a PC desktop with a faster processor than any PC laptop too, and that does not make all PC laptops outdated.

On the Nissan side, the Z is a bad example, as the 300ZX was discontinued a few years before the 350Z was available.

 

[spercharged69]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak

Sure, there are faster desktop processors-- but I could buy a PC desktop with a faster processor than any PC laptop too, and that does not make all PC laptops outdated.

Not true, you can get PC laptops that are just as fast processor and memory wise as desktop PC's, and they're usually only a few weeks behind. Look in to Sager or Alienware laptops if you don't believe me

 

[crobben]

Free Advertising

Announcing products "whenever they are ready" is OK for other computer companies, but Apple gets tons of free advertising, from the Wall Street Journal to your local newspaper, when they make product announcements at the big shows (WWDC, MacWorld, etc). Anybody ever place a value on that? Just tell people when the product will really ship. Customers will appreciate the honesty and can plan their budgets.

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by jstef
If the sheer volume of bitching doesn't prove that a 15" AlBook would be a big hit, then I don't know what does. Apple dropped the ball. They should have never updated the 12" and 17" without updating the 15". When your average Joe User looks at the 15" next to the 12" and 17", it looks outdated. Now when that same Joe User hits the Apple rumor sites, which all tell him that the 15" AlBook is coming soon, it's hard not to wait.

The sheer volume of talk here on Macrumors really makes little difference to Apple. Even with Apple's relatively small market share, the percentage of users who follow rumor sites like this enough to even have a _clue_ that a new 15" might have been coming is so small that it probably has little to no affect on how many TiBooks Apple sells.

 

[plinkoman]

Originally posted by io_burn
The problem with that is, to upper management that's footing the bill for most of us to upgrade to new computers... It's nearly impossible to sell them on 'old' hardware. It's a stupid business decision for them, no matter how great you guys think the current 15 incher is.

yea, update them now, have everyone buy one now and have everyone whine and complain a month later when the 7457 is put in them? that would be a stupid business decision

 

[Websnapx2]

Originally posted by plinkoman
yea, update them now, have everyone buy one now and have everyone whine and complain a month later when the 7457 is put in them? that would be a stupid business decision

Smart business should know that something new is always in the horizon. You can't please everyone.

 

[spercharged69]

Originally posted by plinkoman
yea, update them now, have everyone buy one now and have everyone whine and complain a month later when the 7457 is put in them? that would be a stupid business decision

The exact problem is no one has any idea when the 7457 will be released. We have to rely on RUMOR sites to get any kind of product roadmap or speculated release dates for anything Apple makes. This, in my opinion is one of the contributing factors to the small market share. Companies like to budget stuff out LONG in advance. How can you budget for your IT department, running Apple hardware if everything is a suprise? You can't... And that's exactly MY problem.

 

[plinkoman]

Originally posted by Websnapx2
Smart business should know that something new is always in the horizon. You can't please everyone.

yea, but also, if they released an updated pb now, then a month later, another updated pb with the 7457, everyone who has been dying for an aluminum pb will have already bought them, and they'll get no sales on the 7457 pb. and sure, something new is always on the horizon, but a month between updates is just not enough time

 

[QCassidy352]

to those of you who think others are whining:
first of all, most of you seem like Tibook owners who are getting defensive about your computers, which makes you a lot less credible.
second, the fact is, people don't like to pay full price for last year's model. Many years the new year's model of car is really no better than that of the previous year, but once it's "dated," it loses value. Now be honest - how many of you would go to a dealership today and pay full price for a 2003 car?
third, there ARE problems with the Tibooks! Jobs said so in so many words at MWSF. It's stunning that 8 months later, they are still trying to sell a product for full price that they admitted to be flawed!

look, I wouldn't pay full price for last years model, and I don't think many of you would either. So cut the crap. Even if the Tibooks are "good enough," nobody likes to feel like they are being cheated. And in the world of tech, full price for an 8 month old product is being ripped off.

 

[jbomber]

glad i overslept and saved myself $35.

not glad about the continued lack of a 15" powerbook.

say what you will about apple knowing best- this DEFINITELY feels like a big mistake on their part.

 

[betoranaldi]

Who's to say they wont announce the updates Next Tuesday just to spite the IDG people?

 

[cubist]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
... On the Nissan side, the Z is a bad example, as the 300ZX was discontinued a few years before the 350Z was available.

Quite true. At least Apple still sells the Ti.

But where's the Mazda RX-8? Anyone seen one yet? If they don't show it this week I'm going to go buy a Suzuki Aerio.

 

[snahabed]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
to those of you who think others are whining:
first of all, most of you seem like Tibook owners who are getting defensive about your computers, which makes you a lot less credible.
second, the fact is, people don't like to pay full price for last year's model. Many years the new year's model of car is really no better than that of the previous year, but once it's "dated," it loses value. Now be honest - how many of you would go to a dealership today and pay full price for a 2003 car?
third, there ARE problems with the Tibooks! Jobs said so in so many words at MWSF. It's stunning that 8 months later, they are still trying to sell a product for full price that they admitted to be flawed!

look, I wouldn't pay full price for last years model, and I don't think many of you would either. So cut the crap. Even if the Tibooks are "good enough," nobody likes to feel like they are being cheated. And in the world of tech, full price for an 8 month old product is being ripped off.

And it is valid to feel that way. In which case, there are two newer models from which to choose. Simple.

If it is further insisted that 12 and 17 are evil numbers, and only a 15 will do, then just wait. If you HAVE to buy a computer NOW NOW NOW, are obsessed with the number 15, and have an alergic reaction to Titanium. in the name of all that is holy, buy a Dell. I just don't get the whining. You people have tons of Mac options; if none are satisfactory, buh bye!

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by cubist
Quite true. At least Apple still sells the Ti.

But where's the Mazda RX-8? Anyone seen one yet? If they don't show it this week I'm going to go buy a Suzuki Aerio.

Exactly-- until a new 15" PowerBook is announced, the current 15" is still the best there is. It's not "outdated." Sure, it could be better, but I guarantee that if 7457 or even G5 PowerBooks came out tomorrow people would still say they could be better.

In the tech industry, the next big thing is ALWAYS coming tomorrow. You can either enjoy what's available now or you can miss out. If I had a 300ZX, even if it had been the last one produced before the 350Z, I would still have driven the heck out of it and loved it up until the day I could get the 350 to replace it.

And I actually have seen one RX-8 on the road... only one.

 

[Lyle]

Originally posted by snahabed
OK Fair enough, the 17" is more expensive... but who knows how an updated 15" would be priced.

True. I was working from the assumption that we were looking at a G4-based 15" PowerBook, with basically the appropriate updates to bring it in line with the current 12" and 17" models. Aluminum case, AirPort Extreme, etc. but obviously not the G5. So for that scenario I'd expect roughly the same price points as the existing 15" models.

I have used the 17", yes, and overall it is an extra pound and a couple inches wider. I find it hard to believe that is make or break. The 15" is pretty big too. If small size is a concern, the 12" is a great deal. And if you really need the size compromise, then the TiG4 is a great machine.

Despite the price difference, I certainly haven't ruled out the 17" model. The 12" model is a little too small for my aging eyes, though.

I just find it hard to fathom that someone would want to switch to Mac, and there are tons upon tons of configurations and options, and yet people will find tiny excuses and nitpick...

I think if there weren't this heightened expectation of an impending PowerBook update the decision would be much easier. And yes, as you've already noted, this heightened expectation is entirely driven by speculation on the rumor mills and not because of anything that Apple's said. But I don't want to be one of the guys who buys the current TiBook model today only to see it updated a week or two from now, just outside of the ten day returns window.

 

[tedjac]

Full price is not really "full price"

The 15" G4 Powerbook w/ 1Ghz processor started out at either $3199 or $2999, I can't remember which. It is now priced at $2599... so full price is relative to when you bought one. At the $2599 price, this computer is selling well. Trust me, I know... I sell them everyday. It is a fully-loaded (512Mb ram, 60Gb HD, Airport included, 64Mb graphics, Superdrive) machine and is still very usable and powerful. You can edit movies on it, do graphics on it... it's a great little computer... and it still boots OS9, for anyone that needs to. Most people out there don't know the rumors about the mythical AL 15". They try the TiBook and it works... they buy it. If and when an Al 15" comes out, it likely won't be much faster than the current 15"... so if you need to wait for a new case and maybe a backlit keyboard to get your work done, then do so. Otherwise, take advantage of the relative bargain that the current 15" Powerbook is and go buy one... before they're gone and you have to pay more for essentially the same machine.javascript:smilie('')

 

[Brother Mugga]

You're going to need a bigger boat...

r.e. Lyle and freundt's posts:

It's interesting to see some of the scorn being heaped upon the likes of Lyle and freundt when they make fairly reasonable statements about their frustration with Apple...as potential switchers.

Let's all just think about that for a second.

Apple is desperate for more switchers, yet very few people on this thread actually seem to be listening to two people voicing their reasons for holding back.

Interesting.

I too am going to switch [at Christmas to a dual 2.0 G5...after (a) I've seen them reviewed IN OPERATION and (b) we've therefore seen any 'teething' problems (coughs 'dust...dust' into his hand...). I've been waiting 18 months and, if you asked me for a wish list prior to the WWDC, I would have written down pretty much what was produced....so I'm more than a little excited.... ]. In fact, although still using a PC personally, I've already moved 5 people onto Macs in the last 6 months. But, like so many of my potential switching friends, I'm pretty knacked off with this crappy 6 month (ish) upgrade cycle that Apple seems locked into, which makes finding the 'best' time to buy a computer such a nightmare. For example, I have two people lined up for iMacs right now, but have been holding off till this Macworld to see if they were either going to update the line or (in the name of all that is holy please PLEASE...) *drop the prices on those plonked out in almost 6 months ago*!

Since these iMacs came out (the 800MHz/1Gig models), I've been comparing them with a similarly specced Dell. This has dropped about 20-30% in price over the last 5 months.

If you don't see why this might be a problem, then I'm not sure you're really thinking straight.

If I stick with PCs, I know that I can just get a computer when I need one, because either the prices are continually falling or there are monthly (or even weekly) upgrades. With Apple it's like trying to crack a safe...one false move and you're left with egg on your face (that is to say, uneccesarily out of pocket, which doesn't do a lot for your opinion of the company).

(As a side note, I must say I'm amazed at the number of Mac users that actually *whine* when Apple pull of a good upgrade...because it makes their 'recently' purchased (i.e. 4 month old) model 'look crappy'. Jeeeeeeeeeez - don't ever buy a PC, is all I can say. Such is the rate of improvement and price reduction in the PC world (due to *competition*...hmmmm, now there's a topic) that I stop reading PC mags THE DAY after I buy a new computer, just so I don't get depressed.)

If Apple want's to attract more PC users then they should *definitely* think about moving over to a more attractive retailing model, in which they drop (albeit marginally) prices across the board every month and look to a 3-4 month (rather than 6-7 month) upgrade cylce. This isn't just because computing moves *way* too fast to be updating components (i.e. graphics cards) only every 6 months, but because then everyone would know the score, be able to make informed purchasing decisions, and would *have to stop whingeing* when Apple didn't pull the required rabbit out of the conference hat.

Sorry for the long post, but this is *really* important to switchers. I love the OS, I love the machines...I generally love the people. But I absolutely do not want to get ripped off by Apple's bizarre and secretive upgrade policy.

Okay, rant over.

Cheers

Brother Mugga

PS: And, while we're talking about powerbooks et al, it is not insignificant that the new centrino chip is spanking Apple's laptop line (certainly in terms of performance - pop over to www.barefeats.com for comments on this). Yes, it doesn't run OS X, etc. etc. etc. (blah blah blah). But Sony, Toshiba etc. are now producing cheaper, cooler, faster, DVD burning, and not entirely unattractive laptops (that, significantly for someone thinking of switching, don't require you to re-purchase all your software). I wouldn't buy one, but I've already lost two potential switchers who *couldn't* wait for a faster/cheaper laptop from Apple. Particularly something in a 15", as it were. Just something to think about.

 

[homeshire]

Originally posted by snahabed
I'd love the Dual G5 to be shipping TODAY. I'd love Panther to be shipping TODAY, but it's not, so I'll use the next best thing until then (G4 and Jag). The next best thing to THAT is G3 and Jag. The next best thing to THAT is G3 and OS9. The next best thing to THAT is Linux on anything.

And after that, I would become Amish and shun computing altogether.

amen. that's where i'm at. i live in an area heavily populated by the amish. i envy them in many ways.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
THANK YOU!!!!!
If you want a PowerBook, buy a PowerBook. If you want a Dell, buy a Dell. If you _really_ want a PowerBook, it doesn't matter if it's a Titanium or Aluminum or what-- you'll buy the PowerBook; there is nothing wrong with the current ones.

Uh, if I am going to shell out that kind of money for something that has to last me at least a few years... why the hell would I buy something as outdated as the Ti PowerBook? You people must be loaded with disposable income. Must be nice to drop 3G at the drop of a hat.

 

[MattG]

I want to take all of you whining babies and throw you off a cliff. Or a building. Or a really tall chair.

There will ALWAYS be newer models. What is wrong with the TiG4 15"?

It is slow, VERY fragile, old and obsolete.

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Uh, if I am going to shell out that kind of money for something that has to last me at least a few years... why the hell would I buy something as outdated as the Ti PowerBook? You people must be loaded with disposable income. Must be nice to drop 3G at the drop of a hat.

As I've said before, what is "outdated" about it? It is, very simply, the most powerful 15" Mac laptop in existence. It could be improved, but so could every Dell or IBM laptop currently manufactured.

And I certainly don't have 3G to drop. I am saving my pennies for a 12" PB, and when I have the money I will buy whichever one is out there.

 

[illumin8]

Originally posted by io_burn
We will be purchasing either 15 inch Powerbooks, or the new Sager 8890. Whichever comes first. ...And sadly, with not a peep from Apple, I think it might be the Sager.

Hey, I checked out the specs on the forthcoming Sager 8890... That is going to be one serious machine! If anyone is interested in the specs, here are the complete details: Sager 8890

Highlights:

• 
  * PIV up to 3.2 w/ HyperThreading
  * 800 Mhz. FSB supporting dual-bank
  * PC3200 memory (up to 2GB)
  * ATI Radeon 9600 Pro graphics w/ DVI out
  * 16" SXGA screen
  * SP/DIF 5.1 audio out, plus 6.1 analog out
  * Supports 7200 RPM hard drives
  * Supports IDE RAID with two internal drives!

This thing blows away most desktops and will be out at the end of July/first of August. Apple has some serious competition on the notebook front and better get their act together quick.

 

[freundt]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
As I've said before, what is "outdated" about it? It is, very simply, the most powerful 15" Mac laptop in existence. It could be improved, but so could every Dell or IBM laptop currently manufactured.

And I certainly don't have 3G to drop. I am saving my pennies for a 12" PB, and when I have the money I will buy whichever one is out there.

By your argument, the Ford Model T is not an outdated car technology wise because it is the best Model T out there.

Sorry, I don't buy that argument.

 

[Trimix]

Originally posted by moosecat
Wonder why it was sparsely attended. Wouldn't a lot of people attend simply because there was the chance of a new product announcement?

Or did the attendees know something we didn't?

The truth is out there. So is an 867mHz 12" PowerBook that is rapidly looking like my next computer.

I ordered mine last week and received it today -
A wonderful piece of kit - I can only recommend it
What is there to lose ? I figured I can always wait for the next bigger screen, the next speed improvement - bah - then I will spend my life waiting -
no thanks, but I love my new PB

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by freundt
By your argument, the Ford Model T is not an outdated car technology wise because it is the best Model T out there.

Sorry, I don't buy that argument.

The Model T was a Ford two-door coupe. There are better Ford two-door coupes now.

There are also other Fords now. SUVs, sedans, minivans. Compare those to the 12" PB, the 17" PB, and even desktops.

There are also Chevys, Chryslers, etc. Compare those to the Dells and IBMs.

If you want the best Ford coupe, you're not going to buy a Model T, you're going to buy a Mustang or a Thunderbird (i.e., a 15" PowerBook).

If you want the best overall Ford, you might decide on a sedan instead (i.e., 17" PowerBook).

But just because Chevy doesn't have something Ford does, it doesn't mean all the Fords are outdated. And if a Taurus has a feature a Mustang doesn't, it doesn't make the Mustang outdated.