Greg Joswiak's Feature Presentation

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
As I've said before, what is "outdated" about it? It is, very simply, the most powerful 15" Mac laptop in existence. It could be improved, but so could every Dell or IBM laptop currently manufactured.

And I certainly don't have 3G to drop. I am saving my pennies for a 12" PB, and when I have the money I will buy whichever one is out there.

what's wrong with it? well, a cheaper notebook has better features, then yeah. something IS wrong.

Airport Extreme
non-painted exterior
DDR RAM
decent AirPort reception
better keyboard

and if you cannot see that, then I dont know what to tell you. there is a 500 dollar price difference between the two and that just is not right.

 

[crees!]

Originally posted by KrazyKidd
... im not about to buy something thats obviously outdated. And I cant get one in September...Looks like dell is gonna see my money ;[

i really wanted to switch too...

KrazyKidd

Get it out of your head... it's NOT OUTDATED. Plus I'm looking to switch too.. and I will... I'm just going to wait.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
First off, what's "outdated" about it? There is no faster portable G4 for you to buy instead; that makes it top of the line, not outdated.

I could care less about the processor speed at this point. All I want is 1Ghz as far as that's concerned.

Why should I spend $2599 on a 1Ghz Ti when the Al updates (at 1.0 and 1.3 Ghz) should sell at $2499 and $2999 worst-case scenario. That $2499 would not only save me $100 (big whup to you fat-cats I guess) and have the same 1Ghz speed (though a more efficient 7457) it would also get me Bluetooth, Airport Exteme, Firewire 800, faster BUS, faster RAM, etc. Oh, and a case that does not block wireless signals or have paint problems. Oh, and a corrected widescreen aspect display. Hopefully they will get USB 2.0 on board as well so I can connect my digital camera at full speed but I've been waiting too long to let that one thing stop me at this point.

So do you understand why some of us are waiting? Do you understand that it is odd to release new 12" and 17" models but leave the 15" model (which lacks all the above features) to rot for six months? I think we have a right to whine about it at this point. We should have had the replacement back in January.

I think Apple didn't want to revise it with the same 1Ghz processor simply because it would have been the same speed, damn the improved features and Steve's astrologist warned him of this. I swear the planets must be aligned for him to announce anything. Releasing two different PowerBook models (with the 17" having the very same processor) must get around this cosmic quandry somehow.

You know, if they had updated all three back in January I don't think anyone would really be expecting any updates at all at this point. Surely there would not be anything that exciting about a boost to 1.3 Ghz alone.

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
what's wrong with it? well, a cheaper notebook has better features, then yeah. something IS wrong.

Airport Extreme
non-painted exterior
DDR RAM
decent AirPort reception
better keyboard

and if you cannot see that, then I dont know what to tell you. there is a 500 dollar price difference between the two and that just is not right.

It also has a larger screen, better processor, higher RAM ceiling, and more cache than the cheaper laptop with "better features" you mention. They are _different_ products. In some ways the 12" is better than the more expensive 15" and in some ways it's not.

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by crees!
Get it out of your head... it's NOT OUTDATED. Plus I'm looking to switch too.. and I will... I'm just going to wait.

We all expect the new Al15 to be like the Al17 with a smaller screen.

Let's see...

No Airport Extreme
No Bluetooth
No Firewire 800
No Backlit Keyboard

Slower BUS Speed
Slower RAM Speed
Problematic Wireless Reception
Problematic Paint

... exactly why is it not outdated again?

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Why should I spend $2599 on a 1Ghz Ti when the Al updates (at 1.0 and 1.3 Ghz) should sell at $2499 and $2999 worst-case scenario. That $2499 would not only save me $100 (big whup to you fat-cats I guess) and have the same 1Ghz speed (though a more efficient 7457) it would also get me Bluetooth, Airport Exteme, Firewire 800, faster BUS, faster RAM, etc. Oh, and a case that does not block wireless signals or have paint problems. Oh, and a corrected widescreen aspect display. Hopefully they will get USB 2.0 on board as well so I can connect my digital camera at full speed but I've been waiting too long to let that one thing stop me at this point.

So do you understand why some of us are waiting? Do you understand that it is odd to release new 12" and 17" models but leave the 15" model (which lacks all the above features) to rot for six months? I think we have a right to whine about it at this point. We should have had the replacement back in January.

Why buy an updated G4 15" now when the G5 might be around in a year? No, we don't know when the G5 will go in the PowerBook; we also don't know when (or if!) the Ti will get replaced with an Al G4.

The next big thing will always be right around the corner.

 

[TomA]

Apple ripping people off with the Ti's at this point.

Check out the LOADED 2.6G P4 Medion 15" laptops at Aldi. $1500 WITH a superdrive!

 

[betoranaldi]

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
We all expect the new Al15 to be like the Al17 with a smaller screen.

Let's see...

No Airport Extreme
No Bluetooth
No Firewire 800
No Backlit Keyboard

Slower BUS Speed
Slower RAM Speed
Problematic Wireless Reception
Problematic Paint

... exactly why is it not outdated again?

The Key is WE ARE EXPECTING that does not mean that it will be a smaller version of the 17". there for everything is speculation until apple annouces it so currently the 15" Powerbook is not Outdated

 

[Ikash]

i was wanting a 15" al pb before september but i guess i thought i would never say this but apples diapointed me. whats teh hold up with them ther not going to have fuel cells, and the g5 processor is prob a ways away so not sure whats taking them so long, it didn't need like major updates so i wonder whats taking them so long

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Why buy an updated G4 15" now when the G5 might be around in a year? No, we don't know when the G5 will go in the PowerBook; we also don't know when (or if!) the Ti will get replaced with an Al G4.

The next big thing will always be right around the corner.

Give me a break! I don't give a flying fig if they release a PowerBook G5 in January.

If you had bothered to read my post...

All I want is a 1 Ghz G4 with the features of the Al17 in a Al15 package. That is all I am waiting for. That is all I have been waiting for. I am not waiting for the next big thing. I am waiting for what we should have had months ago.

 

[Websnapx2]

I currently own a PowerMac G4 400, infact the very first one to enter the city I live in. I know I am due for an update, and I want that update to be a new 15" Powerbook. I do alot of Graphic/Web/Flash/Motion Design both at home and by proffesion.

If I was shopping for a work computer, as in I'm not flipping the bill, I would go with the best available because though my input is valued, it is certainly not a pre-requisite. But since I am shopping for a machine to work at home with I know I can afford to wait. My tower runs fine and though it will have it's 4th birthday in October, i can run anything available including Panther and i find it anything but obosolete. In fact the reason I am looking to upgrade is more for the portability and a factory Apple burner (i currently installed a fast 32X noname burner that kicks ass and works great with toast but isn't compatable for iTunes and OSX's built in burning function), a larger hard drive (currently only 20 Gigs that i bought after market) and more ram.

Basicaly, what I'm saying is if you have a machine that is working for you right now you can afford to wait (like me), if you don't, all avillable machines at the Apple store will be better than what you have now. And If you are truely pondering a dell, I feel sorry for you, and the trouble you will have in the future untill the eventual day you _will_switch back.


And you know you will....

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by Ikash
i was wanting a 15" al pb before september but i guess i thought i would never say this but apples diapointed me. whats teh hold up with them ther not going to have fuel cells, and the g5 processor is prob a ways away so not sure whats taking them so long, it didn't need like major updates so i wonder whats taking them so long

So something cannot be better until it is officially announced then? Oh, I see.

 

[jstef]

Re: You're going to need a bigger boat...

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
r.e. Lyle and freundt's posts:

It's interesting to see some of the scorn being heaped upon the likes of Lyle and freundt when they make fairly reasonable statements about their frustration with Apple...as potential switchers.

Let's all just think about that for a second.

Apple is desperate for more switchers, yet very few people on this thread actually seem to be listening to two people voicing their reasons for holding back.

Interesting.

I too am going to switch [at Christmas to a dual 2.0 G5...after (a) I've seen them reviewed IN OPERATION and (b) we've therefore seen any 'teething' problems (coughs 'dust...dust' into his hand...). I've been waiting 18 months and, if you asked me for a wish list prior to the WWDC, I would have written down pretty much what was produced....so I'm more than a little excited.... ]. In fact, although still using a PC personally, I've already moved 5 people onto Macs in the last 6 months. But, like so many of my potential switching friends, I'm pretty knacked off with this crappy 6 month (ish) upgrade cycle that Apple seems locked into, which makes finding the 'best' time to buy a computer such a nightmare. For example, I have two people lined up for iMacs right now, but have been holding off till this Macworld to see if they were either going to update the line or (in the name of all that is holy please PLEASE...) *drop the prices on those plonked out in almost 6 months ago*!

Since these iMacs came out (the 800MHz/1Gig models), I've been comparing them with a similarly specced Dell. This has dropped about 20-30% in price over the last 5 months.

If you don't see why this might be a problem, then I'm not sure you're really thinking straight.

If I stick with PCs, I know that I can just get a computer when I need one, because either the prices are continually falling or there are monthly (or even weekly) upgrades. With Apple it's like trying to crack a safe...one false move and you're left with egg on your face (that is to say, uneccesarily out of pocket, which doesn't do a lot for your opinion of the company).

(As a side note, I must say I'm amazed at the number of Mac users that actually *whine* when Apple pull of a good upgrade...because it makes their 'recently' purchased (i.e. 4 month old) model 'look crappy'. Jeeeeeeeeeez - don't ever buy a PC, is all I can say. Such is the rate of improvement and price reduction in the PC world (due to *competition*...hmmmm, now there's a topic) that I stop reading PC mags THE DAY after I buy a new computer, just so I don't get depressed.)

If Apple want's to attract more PC users then they should *definitely* think about moving over to a more attractive retailing model, in which they drop (albeit marginally) prices across the board every month and look to a 3-4 month (rather than 6-7 month) upgrade cylce. This isn't just because computing moves *way* too fast to be updating components (i.e. graphics cards) only every 6 months, but because then everyone would know the score, be able to make informed purchasing decisions, and would *have to stop whingeing* when Apple didn't pull the required rabbit out of the conference hat.

Sorry for the long post, but this is *really* important to switchers. I love the OS, I love the machines...I generally love the people. But I absolutely do not want to get ripped off by Apple's bizarre and secretive upgrade policy.

Okay, rant over.

Cheers

Brother Mugga

PS: And, while we're talking about powerbooks et al, it is not insignificant that the new centrino chip is spanking Apple's laptop line (certainly in terms of performance - pop over to www.barefeats.com for comments on this). Yes, it doesn't run OS X, etc. etc. etc. (blah blah blah). But Sony, Toshiba etc. are now producing cheaper, cooler, faster, DVD burning, and not entirely unattractive laptops (that, significantly for someone thinking of switching, don't require you to re-purchase all your software). I wouldn't buy one, but I've already lost two potential switchers who *couldn't* wait for a faster/cheaper laptop from Apple. Particularly something in a 15", as it were. Just something to think about.

Wow. Can you say it any better? That's exactly what I was trying to get at in my last post.

A lot of people are complaining about Apple's upgrade cycle-- the fact that a lot of these people are potential switchers makes it even worse. Apple is losing customers because if you decide to cross over and buy a PC, you can get one that was released just last week. You don't need to worry about buying a year-old Apple with a new one coming out just around the bend.

I'm bitching and I'll admit it. I'm just a little angry at the way that I'm being dicked around, by both the rumor sites and by Apple. Since Apple doesn't like to release products 'out of the blue', I've come to expect them to be released at trade shows and the like.

I could buy a PC today that would blow away that TiBook. It wouldn't have OSX and it wouldn't be as sexy, but it would run Photoshop just as fast (actually, a lot faster), it would get the same battery life (thanks, Centrino), and it would do everything I need. However, I'm committed to switch to Apple, and I will. If I have to wait, then I have to wait.

But while I am waiting, I'll bitch and moan all I want. If you like your TiBook, that's all well and good. I just don't want to pay the same amount you did and be 8 months behind on the upgrade cycle.

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Give me a break! I don't give a flying fig if they release a PowerBook G5 in January.

If you had bothered to read my post...

All I want is a 1 Ghz G4 with the features of the Al17 in a Al15 package. That is all I am waiting for. That is all I have been waiting for. I am not waiting for the next big thing. I am waiting for what we should have had months ago.

You are waiting for something that has not been announced and may never be released, and then blaming Apple for making you wait for it!

 

[betoranaldi]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
You are waiting for something that has not been announced and may never be released, and then blaming Apple for making you wait for it!

Thats what i was trying to get at with my last post

 

[synthetickittie]

if you seriously believe the 15 powerbook is NOT outdated right now your in a your own world where everything apple says/makes in the word of god. Granted I LOVE basically everything apple makes but Im no blind to things. The 15 isnt outdated in that it can still run programs BUT if it were an ibook then that would be acceptable, but its SUPPOST to be a professional line! Come on look at what you can get for hardware in the PC world for notebooks at this price, its WAY over what the 15 offers right now, this thing doesnt even have DDR ram. Come on how can you not say a PROFESSIONAL piece of hardware is not outdated when it doesnt even have the ability to use the thing the SAME company has made: airport extreme, Bluetooth (built-in), and fire wire 800. Im going to start college in September and want a powerbook to use and this thing may be able to work everything (major: computer science) for the next year but Im not no rich kid who can buy a new powerbook every year.

 

[Fender2112]

From a marketing perspective, I don't quite understand Apple. There seems to be a big demand for "Back to School" products and they should be taking notice of this. Folks want to make these purchases BEFORE they go back to school, not after.

Unless Apple does one of those "queit" updates in the next week or two, they will lose quite a few swithers.

Perhaps Apple wanted to prove a point to the folks at IDG and the updates will come soon enough.

Personally I'm waiting for iMac updates

 

[Rustus Maximus]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
You are waiting for something that has not been announced and may never be released, and then blaming Apple for making you wait for it!

Acckkk!!....the blinding light of truth...

(the trolls recoil in horror...only to be replaced by new, more freshly registered ones...)

 

[Brother Mugga]

Er...

Look, I'm wary of sticking my oar into this, but...

Sorry, but Apple is in danger of getting spanked with its laptops...despite this apparently being their 'year.'


The new Centrino has bought high power, low heat (wi-fi integrated) solutions to the PC world, and companies like Sony, Toshiba etc (and myriad highly competitive others) are now (as I said in my previous post) cranking out cheap, fast, cool, and well designed (aesthetically also) machines.

I get the feeling that some of the Mac posters on this thread are only comparing the Mac laptops to each other. That's not really very sensible. You should be comparing them also to what else is out there. That's the genuine competition (something that many living in Apple's comfortable little 'hardware/software' monopoly microverse would do well to take a gander at from time to time).

If you last used a Wintel laptop in November, when the Ti 15" was last updated, then you really need to have another look: things really ain't not the same no more.

I feel it is perhaps to this discrepancy that some posters are pointing when they suggest that the 15" Ti is in danger of becoming 'outdated.'

The new G5s will secure (and, indeed, win) marketshare because they appear highly competitive. Apple needs to roll-out this kind of pricing/features ratio across its entire range a.s.a.p.

Believe me, I'd be able to get them about another 10 switchers in about five minutes...


Brother Mugga

PS: Cheers, Jstef

 

[TomA]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
You are waiting for something that has not been announced and may never be released, and then blaming Apple for making you wait for it!

Oh Horsesh*t. We are blaming Apple for not producing a decent 15" laptop. Who wants to pay top dollar for NEARLY YEAR OLD technology?

I don't think many people care if it looks like the 17" or not. But they don't want the paint peeling piece of crap Ti's with last year's (literally) technology.

On another topic: You people that are thinking of switching to Dell should really look at the Medion laptops at Aldi. (German engineering means they might not have the same defect issues as the Dells...)

 

[job]

Re: Er...

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
The new G5s will secure (and, indeed, win) marketshare because they appear highly competitive. Apple needs to roll-out this kind of pricing/features ratio across its entire range a.s.a.p.

I don't think Apple will release G5 Powerbooks before 2004.

And I'll eat my shoe if they do.

 

[TomA]

Originally posted by Rustus Maximus
Acckkk!!....the blinding light of truth...

(the trolls recoil in horror...only to be replaced by new, more freshly registered ones...)

To me, stupid, blind apple loyalty like this is much more troll-like than people who are pointing out a real defect in Apple's product line.

 

[spercharged69]

Originally posted by illumin8
Hey, I checked out the specs on the forthcoming Sager 8890... That is going to be one serious machine! If anyone is interested in the specs, here are the complete details: Sager 8890

Highlights:

• 
  * PIV up to 3.2 w/ HyperThreading
  * 800 Mhz. FSB supporting dual-bank
  * PC3200 memory (up to 2GB)
  * ATI Radeon 9600 Pro graphics w/ DVI out
  * 16" SXGA screen
  * SP/DIF 5.1 audio out, plus 6.1 analog out
  * Supports 7200 RPM hard drives
  * Supports IDE RAID with two internal drives!

This thing blows away most desktops and will be out at the end of July/first of August. Apple has some serious competition on the notebook front and better get their act together quick.

The only catch is that the laptop is bigger than the XBOX it's so huge! (Well, not THAT big, but it's hefty.) I suppose such sacrifices need to be made to have a laptop that out-performs most desktops

 

[job]

Originally posted by TomA
Oh Horsesh*t. We are blaming Apple for not producing a decent 15" laptop. Who wants to pay top dollar for NEARLY YEAR OLD technology?

Go do a search for how old DDR SDRAM is.

I don't think many people care if it looks like the 17" or not. But they don't want the paint peeling piece of crap Ti's with last year's (literally) technology.

Check the benchmark numbers. You'll see that in terms of performance the supposed 'DDR' SDRAM and slightly faster FSB does little in terms of realworld performance. Do those extra 2.9 frames per second in Quake3 really matter all that much?

http://www.macworld.com/2003/06/reviews/17inchpowerbook/

(German engineering means they might not have the same defect issues as the Dells...)

Nice stereotype.

[edit: Forgot the benchmark link]

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by synthetickittie
if you seriously believe the 15 powerbook is NOT outdated right now your in a your own world where everything apple says/makes in the word of god. Granted I LOVE basically everything apple makes but Im no blind to things. The 15 isnt outdated in that it can still run programs BUT if it were an ibook then that would be acceptable, but its SUPPOST to be a professional line! Come on look at what you can get for hardware in the PC world for notebooks at this price, its WAY over what the 15 offers right now, this thing doesnt even have DDR ram. Come on how can you not say a PROFESSIONAL piece of hardware is not outdated when it doesnt even have the ability to use the thing the SAME company has made: airport extreme, Bluetooth (built-in), and fire wire 800. Im going to start college in September and want a powerbook to use and this thing may be able to work everything (major: computer science) for the next year but Im not no rich kid who can buy a new powerbook every year.

When it comes to Apple hardware, what Apple says IS the word of God. What the PC manufacturers have is completely irrelevant in a discussion of what the current 15" PowerBook can do.