Gurman: The virtual keyboard is a wash

[subjonas]

What I am saying's that nobody normal is gonna wear this thing outside. So, it would be limited to your home so then why would anyone pay this price to have the same thing they have on the Mac and iPhone and sweat in it while having to swap batteries every 1-2 hours. This will go the way of 3D TVs and curved TVs - unless they can substantially and I mean substantially shrink it to fit regular sunglasses which will happen in approximately 30 years. And even then the commands will be very weird as today Siri can't even understand simple one word commands. Every product so far made sense: iPad/tablet - watch movies in bed, read books, draw almost better than on paper, browse web in bed, take it on an airplane, vacation, etc. Watch, tells time, looks great, it is very comfortable, tracks exercises, answer calls, leave iPhone at home, etc, etc. Vision Pro - nothing - nada- zip -zilch.

Just want to chime in on what I think are some wrong presumptions. You’re right, I wouldn’t wear it outside, but I would use it in various places around the house (mostly on my couch for work or play), in my office (for work), and in a hotel or guest room (work or play). In these places it would be great to have large resizable floating screens, and in those places an iPhone and my Mac setup at my desk won’t help me. And I don’t foresee sweat will be a problem if the room I’m in is temperature controlled (pretty much always) and assuming I take as many breaks as I do when using all my other devices, which is at least every two hours. As far as battery, since I would use it mostly stationary I would mostly keep it plugged in. I only foresee needing battery when going to the kitchen to grab a drink or wanting to watch a video while doing chores around the house (assuming VP can do that).
I don’t know if the VP will be a “success” however one defines that, but I do know it’s very easy to look back at well-established products and list their qualities.

 

[Jensend]

Forget Samsung, look at what ASUS is already doing TODAY.

Their product is 1,000,000 times more interesting than this stupid VR headset.

I just hope they get the proper publicity, so that this AVP thing can flop indefinitely.

Since you've tried both the Apple Vision Pro and the Asus AirVision M1 (wow, they managed to use 3 Apple trademarks in one product name!), can you tell us why your prefer the AirVision? I'm sure the lighter weight is nice along with lower price, but what else do you prefer?

The top independent AR/VR news/reviews sources—Tested, Road to VR, and UploadVR—have all done reviews of similar AR glasses, yet they all still had a very positive reaction to their demos of the AVP. I wonder why that is, given that the they'd already tried AR glasses that were a million times more interesting?

 

[akidokraja]

Having used Palm Pilots since the original one up to Treos, Grafitti was one of the best text input tools for a handheld, IMHO.

Palm Pilots were awesome. So simple and cool even without all fancy 8k displays. Some of the software written for it was also great.

 

[subjonas]

Forget Samsung, look at what ASUS is already doing TODAY.

Their product is 1,000,000 times more interesting than this stupid VR headset.

I just hope they get the proper publicity, so that this AVP thing can flop indefinitely.

This sounds great, I’ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. Any word on when it will release and what it will cost?

I think this and VP will have different strengths though.

 

[eicca]

I mean, I don’t need this device right now, but I understand that paradigm shifts in UI require the proper primary input source be considered.

For macOS that was a mouse, for the iPod that was a click wheel, for the iPhone that was multitouch, why in the world would the virtual keyboard be the *primary* input experience for the AV family?

Apple went out of their way to describe gaze, voice, and *ergonomic* gestures being the main way to interact. When it comes to short text input that’s voice, long form *they show using a physical keyboard or your Mac’s keyboard for the task.*

Of course a virtual keyboard sucks, and will always suck compared to physical haptic feedback from your fingers.

The very premise of this thread is built on the (willfully) incorrect notion that the virtual keyboard is *core* to the UX of this device, it’s not.

Are they not pitching and pricing it as THE next big thing in computing? I'm open to being proven wrong, but gestures and voice as of now just do not stack up to a keyboard and mouse in a high-profile computing situation. They just don't. There's a reason that such direct inputs to the computing environment have not yet been surpassed or even really altered.

 

[antiprotest]

I regularly type on my iPhone without looking at it and at a pretty fast rate. Seems like human error in your case. 🤷
Get gud at typing I guess?

Typing with thumbs, slide to type, dictation, all very fast for me.

 

[aevan]

It's obvious: The whole thing is a write off....

It’s obvious? Wow. See, I thought it was an important early step of something really good - didn’t know it was obvious.

You must be really clever to see it.

 

[aevan]

Forget Samsung, look at what ASUS is already doing TODAY.

Their product is 1,000,000 times more interesting than this stupid VR headset.

I don’t know, to me it’s 0.01 times more interesting than Apple’s VR headset. Meaning - it’s not. The first image on the page you’ve linked is downright false advertising. Also, I love how they mention minimizing blue light, which isn’t really proven to do anything. I just don’t trust ASUS to make a compelling product in this category, so no, I don’t find it interesting.

Also, I guess “stupid” = “too expensive for me”.

 

[BigDO]

I don’t know, to me it’s 0.01 times more interesting than Apple’s VR headset. Meaning - it’s not.

Also, I guess “stupid” = “too expensive for me”.

Lol I also noticed that people who are making the most noise are the ones least likely to afford a product like this.

 

[macfacts]

Forget Samsung, look at what ASUS is already doing TODAY.

Their product is 1,000,000 times more interesting than this stupid VR headset.

I just hope they get the proper publicity, so that this AVP thing can flop indefinitely.

The technology is already here, but apple apparently believes people want a helmet, not glasses.

 

[aevan]

Are they not pitching and pricing it as THE next big thing in computing? I'm open to being proven wrong, but gestures and voice as of now just do not stack up to a keyboard and mouse in a high-profile computing situation. They just don't. There's a reason that such direct inputs to the computing environment have not yet been surpassed or even really altered.

Well, depends what you mean by high-profile computing, doesn’t it. With the adventcof AI, I can imagine voice being superior to a mouse and keyboard. Of course, nothing will replace a desktop in things that desktop is best suited for. But this isn’t competing with the desktop, and computing can mean a lot of things.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Lol I also noticed that people who are making the most noise are the ones least likely to afford a product like this.

The excessive negativity has been kind of exhausting, deterring me from expressing my positive thoughts on it often. Every single article is flooded with complaints. I do wonder if it's just a vocal minority or if most people just don't see the utility yet.

 

[aevan]

The technology is already here, but apple apparently believes people want a helmet, not glasses.

Apple went from the experience (the quality of what you see) and then made the best device they could around that experience. You don’t honestly think they could’ve put all that tech in glasses and decided not to?

You can make a crappy AR and put it in glasses or make amazing AR and place it in a helmet. Today at least.

People don’t want a helmet but they do want a great experience.

 

[subjonas]

Are they not pitching and pricing it as THE next big thing in computing? I'm open to being proven wrong, but gestures and voice as of now just do not stack up to a keyboard and mouse in a high-profile computing situation. They just don't. There's a reason that such direct inputs to the computing environment have not yet been surpassed or even really altered.

I agree you (generally) can’t beat a real keyboard for productivity. Same problem people had with the iPad. But I think Apple agrees too. They gave the iPad a keyboard. And for the VP they did show people using the VP without a keyboard at home for consumption, but at the workplace they showed it being used with a keyboard. It just offers some things that other devices don’t.

 

[subjonas]

It’s obvious? Wow. See, I thought it was an important early step of something really good - didn’t know it was obvious.

You must be really clever to see it.

When someone attributes the word “obvious” or “clear” to their own opinion, it means they either have blinders on or they trying to insult the intelligence of anyone who doesn’t agree with them, or both.

 

[Eso]

This virtual keyboard sounds like a total write-off!

 

[subjonas]

The excessive negativity has been kind of exhausting, deterring me from expressing my positive thoughts on it often. Every single article is flooded with complaints. I do wonder if it's just a vocal minority or if most people just don't see the utility yet.

I see a lot of the same people visiting every VP discussion to repeat the same negative things, usually misconstrued false assumptions. Not sure why anyone would use their limited time on earth to do that, but I’ve learned it’s best to ignore them mostly (I’ll challenge some of the assumptions occasionally since it’s a public forum with lots of readers). Don’t let them keep you from saying what you want to say. That’s their goal, I imagine.

 

[macfacts]

Since you've tried both the Apple Vision Pro and the Asus AirVision M1 (wow, they managed to use 3 Apple trademarks in one product name!), can you tell us why your prefer the AirVision? I'm sure the lighter weight is nice along with lower price, but what else do you prefer?

The top independent AR/VR news/reviews sources—Tested, Road to VR, and UploadVR—have all done reviews of similar AR glasses, yet they all still had a very positive reaction to their demos of the AVP. I wonder why that is, given that the they'd already tried AR glasses that were a million times more interesting?

I'm guessing the form factor is nicer, helmet vs glasses. Apple has had AR tech in the iPhone for a while and the software has been lackluster, they only did some Ikea furniture layout thing. People dreaming of some augmented reality thing for surgery or mechanical engineering, the iPhone hardware is capable of all the hardware features of the vision pro, the only thing lacking has been the software.

 

[BigDO]

The excessive negativity has been kind of exhausting, deterring me from expressing my positive thoughts on it often. Every single article is flooded with complaints. I do wonder if it's just a vocal minority or if most people just don't see the utility yet.

I'm old enough to remember the same around iPhone, iPad, even iPod. All of these people will eventually be the most fervent supporters once it's within their affordability range via interest free subsidies etc.

 

[matsan]

What’s new? Just another Apple Keyboard Failure in a long streak. I hope they haven’t ported the “stuck keys” over to this virtual keyboard.

 

[zakarhino]

They need to bring the AirPods style device switching to Vision Pro and Magic Keyboard.

 

[zakarhino]

Something about Mark's statement doesn't sit right with me. Apple have been perfecting the predictive typing accuracy of the iPhone keyboard for 15 years such that you don't really need to be 100% accurate with your key presses. So how come that same logic can't be applied to the virtual keyboard? Surely the finger tracking and prediction model must be advanced enough to figure out what I'm typing in a scenario where I'm using all 10 fingers to tap on the virtual keyboard. This is how I imagined it to work when watching the keynote. The "you have to tap each key individually" thing sounds like a major oversight. It's typing for God's sake, one of the most fundamental modes of input for any device, did they really do next to no work on creating a fast casual typing experience besides dictation? I call BS, there's no way Apple were this stupid.

Alternatively what about a swiping keyboard setup? Something where I tap and swirl my pinched fingers in the air to control the swipe cursor on the keyboard (to an external observer it would look similar to someone writing with a virtual pen)

 

[jlc1978]

I agree you (generally) can’t beat a real keyboard for productivity. Same problem people had with the iPad. But I think Apple agrees too. They gave the iPad a keyboard. And for the VP they did show people using the VP without a keyboard at home for consumption, but at the workplace they showed it being used with a keyboard. It just offers some things that other devices don’t.

Given it's ability to track key movement, why not adapt accessibility features so that when you have a virtual keyboard and you look at a key it lights up or other feedback that it is active and a blink types the character. Sort of like swipe typing but with the eye; and even word suggestions could be retained. There is no reason to always mimic the physical keyboard's operational mode with a virtual keyboard. Just as swipe typing takes advantage of a virtual keyboards characteristics to make it more useful so could a rethink of how to use a keyboard in a virtual environment.

 

[jlc1978]

Alternatively what about a swiping keyboard setup? Something where I tap and swirl my pinched fingers in the air to control the swipe cursor on the keyboard (to an external observer it would look similar to someone writing with a virtual pen)

Or use the finger movements to create a virtual Graffiti input space. No need for a keyboard and once you learn the Graffiti strokes it's likely be as fast or faster than a virtual keyboard. I still remember them to this day many years after I stopped using it.

 

[8KYUP]

Quest users will tell you that they don't rely on the virtual keyboard. Voice works great or you simply use a Bluetooth keyboard, like on any computer, for long emails, Word docs, writing code, etc. Apple has been clear that this is a new device with new input. People who actually want to buy one of these want this. People who want to disparage the device cast that as a negative. c'est la vie.