Hands-On With Apple's New 16-Inch MacBook Pro

[HouseofG]

The argument falls flat if you care about longevity of your device. I am still surprised how some people managed to pull off cMBPs until last year, just by adding some more ram, adding a SSD,maybe a secondary harddrive and swapping the battery.

Why Mac used to hold easily for 5+ years was a combination of good build quality, software support and some form of user repairability.

Furthermore, the devices get more and more expensive, mainly due to additions such as touchbar, complex and expensive yet offering little to no marginal utility...

Yep, I'm coming off a mid-2010 17" MBP that lasted this long because it has currently relevant SSD and RAM support. And you might (correctly) guess that I'm not a power user but I don't expect my 16" to last me nearly as long. And no one can convince me that this isn't exactly how Apple wants it via these design decisions. But that doesn't outweigh having to use a Win10 machine

 

[dogslobber]

Thank you for the walkthrough. MR videos are invariably the first I go to nowadays for understanding Mac updates. I think they get the right balance so kudos for that.
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15" MBP brand was toxic which is why the 16" MBP replaces it. My thought is that something similar will happen with 13" to delineate it from the terrible recent 13" generations.

 

[robotfist]

True... but SD card’s are originally a consumer product accidentally used by professional users... some professionals also need XQD, P2, SXS, Cfast... so where are the build in readers for that."

This hits it right on the head. Where do you draw the line? Yes, SD cards are used by most mirrorless cameras, but that's not where the world of memory cards ends. I am a professional cinematographer and my world used to be SD and CF cards but that quickly changed to CFast cards and XQD cards over the past 5 years. Next year it looks like I'll be switching over to CFexpress cards. The bottom line is, I am used to needing external card readers. And everyone needs their laptop to do something specialized that fits their own needs. When you try to satisfy everyone, you end up with one of those 18 pound, PC beasts with 30 minutes of battery life, a different colored neon light glowing out of each of the 15 ports, and as many bugs as a Motel 6 in Oklahoma.

As for dongles, I've moved away from dongles. It used to be annoying, but it's not so much anymore. I buy dedicated cables that do what I need. I use USB-C to Micro USB 3 cables for most of my drives. Even Western Digital's cheapest passport drive ships with that cable now. To be honest, the world of USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 is the closest thing to a single, unified cable system for all my needs that I've ever used in my life. We've never had an all-in-one power/data/monitor cable before. If there's anything I dislike about USB-C, it's not the dongles, it's the shallow, relatively loose port design that allows cables to wiggle their way out and lose the connection. I feel like the next rendition of USB-C really needs to work out a way to secure the connection. I've had too many drives dismount while I've been working over the past 3 years. I hate it. I realize Apple probably kept the port loose so they could retain some of the security of the original Magsafe connector. If you trip on the power cable the cable still pops out. The problem is, if you are working on your couch with an external drive, and you shift your body weight, or get up to get a drink, the cable also pops out. It's time for Apple to release the patent and stick magsafe onto all USB-C ports.

 

[Kilibee]

Funny thing that people actually challenge that these machines are less portable than the pre-USB machines.

Simple question:
How many users with the new MBs do you know who travel without dock ?

For me, that number is zero… everybody has a dock, some even more than one, because these thing can be pretty picky, i.e. in some HDMI configurations. Case closed.

HDMI, USB-A, SD-Card are likely the #1, #2, and #3 reasons for this. HDMI is what you need to present at your customers, USB-A what is is commonly used for USB-Sticks, SD-Cards for a high number of devices beside cameras.

If Apple would have copied the right side of my MBP 15/2015 and would have 3 USB-C on the left, it would have been my dream configuration… however, obviously it would have been clear proof just how much they blew this in the first place.

Anyway, significant more RAM is a huge step forwards, and the general machine seems nice. So yes, mine is ordered, and I'm pretty certain that Apple will sell a tone of those.

 

[sarge]

Then there's three choices - dongles, docks, or windows. Apple's not going to go backwards on ports.

Any port transition is painful. Firewire for example, hit the audio industry hard. The Lightning/USB-C split is painful too (as was the iPod connector). The good news is that once we're to USB-C, we should be good for a long while as the port's forward compatible with future protocols.

Agreed but why not build something for that straddle? If the transition is fully complete in 2.5 years time then based on my average upgrade path of 5 years as a pro user I'm willing to pay to have these ports in place in the meantime. Streamlining a run and gun field operation makes my life sooo much easier. The built in connectivity eliminates mental taxation when you're in a hurry. I'm not saying I'm Marc Marquez but I'd rather not be flying around the circuit with my dongle hanging out at the MotoGP.

 

[IG88]

Windows itself needs 16GB of RAM, if your host machine has that much it won't be pretty.

No it doesn't. That's nonsense. Microsoft did a great job with the kernel rewrite starting in Win 8. It's much more efficient than the previous kernel. Granted, if I were planning on running Win 10 in a VM everyday or multiple VMs, I'd have gone for 32 GB of RAM, but for occasional VM work, 16GB is fine.

I'm really liking the 16". I was going to wait but I changed my mind. I have the base model and I'm glad I didn't spend any more $$. I've looked up several benchmarks so far and the base is legit.

 

[0134168]

If I mis-read your post, I apologise. However, it did offer possible defenses for Apple's pricing and "It's easy to argue..." could be taken as a fairly dismissive statement about the counter-arguments.



Again, you're being very ambiguous about whether your defending or attacking Apple. Point is, a gold, mechanical wristwatch is jewellery and is fundamentally a luxury product. Macs aren't (or haven't been in the past) luxury products - they have been tools that people paid a premium for because (at least for them) they do the job better. Apple have managed to combine that with distinctive design which probably did sell a few computers on looks alone - but even that was always very functional, minimal design.

The question is, whether a Rolex-esque 'luxury' computer with its own proprietary OS platform is a viable product. Ans: not if there are insufficient super-rich customers to justify industry support for the platform. If you look at other computer brands that might be called 'luxury-priced' - MS Surface, Razer Blade, Dell XPS, Google Pixel Book, they're all based on mass-market 'platforms' (Windows or ChromeOS/Android) - Dell has a huge range of cheaper computers, while Microsoft and Google are primarily concerned with making 'halo' products to promote their software and services.

PS: a quick trip to Wikipedia shows that even Rolex own a subsidiary - Tudor - making more affordable (c.f. Rolex) watches.

Maybe 100 years ago navigators, astronomers etc. bought Rolex because they needed a pro-grade wrist chronometer, but these days your novelty musical golf-ball holder with built in digital clock tells better time and we have 30 caesium clocks orbiting the Earth transmitting atomic time... Maybe in 100 years time, Apple will be selling gold-plated Mac Classics or PowerBook 100s to rich people who want a retro HyperFaceBook terminal... but they'll probably be running Disney Seven Lucky Cat Linux rather than MacOS.

There´s no ambiguous. Just defend good things, complain bad things. Unless you are a fanboy, of course.

 

[Unami]

The only benefit of upgrading your own RAM is saving money buying third-party RAM. But people who can afford a $3k+ computer are unlikely to want to tear open their own computer to save maybe 5% of the purchase cost. On the other hand, those same people place a premium on the slimmest, lightest laptop possible, which is precisely what soldering RAM allows.

nah... if you upgrade to 64GB, it's about 25% of the computer. it'd still be nice to buy your own (read: the same ram from the same manufacturer apple uses) for half the price.

as for people spending 3k+ on a computer... it's usually professionals, who couldn't care less if their machine is 5 millimeters thinner or not. but they do care about saving costs and having their tools modular and expandeable.

 

[skaertus]

I am not sure if somebody has already posted this video, but I liked it:

It compares the 15-inch and the 16-inch models side by side. You can see the differences in size and display, the sound and even the internals. It is the most illustrative review I have found so far.

Apple Insider also made three videos, one comparing them both, one specifically for the keyboard, and one comparing some of their features:

 

[sarge]

No it doesn't. That's nonsense. Microsoft did a great job with the kernel rewrite starting in Win 8. It's much more efficient than the previous kernel. Granted, if I were planning on running Win 10 in a VM everyday or multiple VMs, I'd have gone for 32 GB of RAM, but for occasional VM work, 16GB is fine.

I'm really liking the 16". I was going to wait but I changed my mind. I have the base model and I'm glad I didn't spend any more $$. I've looked up several benchmarks so far and the base is legit.

Yeah I pulled the trigger on a 16" just now too. Was going to trade in my port rich mid-2014 15" but would only have gotten $530 or so for it so just going to hold onto it. What the heck...I guess I can use it in place of a dock and save another $300

 

[skaertus]

15" MBP brand was toxic which is why the 16" MBP replaces it. My thought is that something similar will happen with 13" to delineate it from the terrible recent 13" generations.

Really? Why toxic? Just because of the keyboard?

 

[Ethosik]

I am highly considering getting this MBP instead of the upcoming Mac Pro. I like what Apple did here. I wish we could have a way of upgrading RAM and storage without the stupid soldering component strategy.
Apple could have made us all happy with a simple thing like that.

Are the laptops fine rendering video all the time being hot all the time? That is my only worry getting one of these laptops if I export FCPX projects all the time if it will cause an issue.

 

[Unami]

Net-net: I cannot find any defensible justification for Touch Bar hatred. And unless you’re a professional photographer, I just don’t understand why the lack of a built-in SD-Card reader is an issue — when all media, documents and files are available to multiple Mac and non-Mac devices via iCloud.

I wouldn't care about the touchbar, if it didn't drive cost up. I think it's a good idea to find a better use for the function keys and it's good for casual users who don't use shortcuts or can't type without looking at the keyboard. I have nothing against it, but I don't want to pay for it, if possible.

As for SD-Cards... it's a medium used widely by professionals - as in: people who buy a "pro" notebook - it's used in countless photo and videocameras, audio-recorders, e.g.: canon's 5D, a zoom f6, sony pdw-x500, dji's drones,... wifi is not the way to go, if you quickly want to unload a bunch of 256gb-cards.

 

[Howard2k]

Might we expect Apple to offer an upgrade to Wifi6 in the future? Would this be an easy/cheap upgrade?

No, won’t come until the next generation processor.

 

[powerslave12r]

It would be interesting to see how many would buy a non-touchbar 16" for $200-400 less. (Or even the same price for that matter.)

 

[cmaier]

Funny thing that people actually challenge that these machines are less portable than the pre-USB machines.

Simple question:
How many users with the new MBs do you know who travel without dock ?

For me, that number is zero… everybody has a dock, some even more than one, because these thing can be pretty picky, i.e. in some HDMI configurations. Case closed.

I don’t know anyone who travels with a dock. I certainly don’t, and nobody i know at work does. We do carry a usb-c to -a adapter and sometimes with a usb-c to vga/hdmi adapter if we expect we will have to present.

 

[heretiq]

I'm baffled by the way some people think that because they don't need a feature (like SD slots or physical function keys) then nobody needs that feature and thus it should be expunged for everybody, let they suffer the appalling ignominy of having a computer with a slot or key that they don't use.

Where in the comment was it stated that nobody needs SD slots or physical function keys?

I’m baffled by the way some people contort other people’s comments to score cheap points through contrived outrage.

 

[Detnator]

I am highly considering getting this MBP instead of the upcoming Mac Pro. I like what Apple did here. I wish we could have a way of upgrading RAM and storage without the stupid soldering component strategy.
Apple could have made us all happy with a simple thing like that.

Speak for yourself. Not all of us. Some of us prefer the soldered RAM and SSD for reasons that have been flogged ad nauseum here for years already.

 

[1198271]

Apple has forgotten to shrink out the top and bottom bezel. Try to fix it in the next update.

 

[LV426]

If I mis-read your post, I apologise. However, it did offer possible defenses for Apple's pricing and "It's easy to argue..." could be taken as a fairly dismissive statement about the counter-arguments.

Apology accepted. And I agree I could have been more forthright/clear in condemning Apple.

Back to the issue at hand, Apple will have teams of people working out what they can charge for their products. There won't be fingers in the air. The departments concerned will be very well funded and charged with maximising revenue for Apple. Large numbers of users will get by using a MBP in a base configuration. I'm sure that Apple's reasoning will be: users who want large amounts of memory / processing capability are likely power users who use machines for business reasons. They will want it; they can afford it; they will pay for it. It's a good way of maximising revenue if your assumptions are correct.

It's a similar story in the professional DSLR camera market. The manufacturers make super-high quality sensors and charge a real premium by putting them in high end cameras. Guess what they also do with those sensors? They deliberately nobble exactly the same sensor so that it has downgraded capability and they put them in consumer grade cameras, where they charge the end user much much less.

Capitalism at work.

 

[Detnator]

The only benefit of upgrading your own RAM is saving money buying third-party RAM. But people who can afford a $3k+ computer are unlikely to want to tear open their own computer to save maybe 5% of the purchase cost. On the other hand, those same people place a premium on the slimmest, lightest laptop possible, which is precisely what soldering RAM allows.

Exactly. Very well explained. And they also place a premium on their time.

Soldered RAM and storage also has other benefits beyond size and weight, including increased reliability - enough increased reliability that repairs are so much rarer now to offsets the increased individual repair cost (to Apple for three years with AppleCare). Even enough that AppleCare now offers more for less $ than ever before.
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Read my post again.

Yes, dongles do indeed negate portability. The point of having something that's portable is to have something that doesn't need to be tied down to a bunch of dangly crap that makes it annoying to use on a lap or on an airplane.

I agree with your Touch Bar comments. However, what are you actually doing on a plane or lap that so desperately needs SD?

That said, there are non-dangly options:

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If Apple included the ports that are in these inside the Mac, then the Mac would be as big as it is plus this anyway. And with these you have more choices as to which ports to include or exclude.

 

[forrie]

I can't believe they are still shipping these with the bloated trackpad, and no way to reduce the sensitivity grid (to avoid the common mishaps).

 

[Detnator]

I'm typing this on a MBP 16 at an Apple store. The keyboard is definitely much improved. Even though the 1mm of travel is still on the low side it provides enough cushion so that typing doesn't feel like banging on concrete.

I was close to pulling the trigger on a near maxed out config but decided to wait. For close to $6K I plan on using this laptop for 6+ years. I can't imagine using a laptop without wifi 6 in 2026. I consider it a given that Apple will do a refresh with Intel's 10th gen Comet Lake CPU the summer which includes wifi 6 and LPDDR4. A config with 64GB, or even 32GB, of RAM will definitely have improved battery life using LPDDR4 compared to the current DDR4. Given the high cost of my config and the length of time I plan to keep it it's definitely worth waiting another 6 to 7 months. Also, this will give Apple enough time to iron out the inevitable bugs from the near first gen product.

I don’t get it. Why not halve that time? Buy now - for less - what you’ll need for three years. Then in three years, sell it. What you get for that, then, plus what you’ll save now, will give you more than enough to buy something better than that for another three years.

With how quickly tech changes how can anyone who needs this kind of equipment keep it for so long?
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I feel USB-C is like Thunderbolt 1 and 2: Apple is really pushing it but it's just not catching on. It's been 4 years since the release of the first USB-C MacBook and I've yet to come across anything that plugs into this damned port.

Very strange that you can’t find anything that uses usb-c.

There are countless external storage options, docks, displays, and any number of other accessories and devices that use USB-C.

What rock are you hiding under?

 

[heretiq]

I wouldn't care about the touchbar, if it didn't drive cost up. I think it's a good idea to find a better use for the function keys and it's good for casual users who don't use shortcuts or can't type without looking at the keyboard. I have nothing against it, but I don't want to pay for it, if possible.

As for SD-Cards... it's a medium used widely by professionals - as in: people who buy a "pro" notebook - it's used in countless photo and videocameras, audio-recorders, e.g.: canon's 5D, a zoom f6, sony pdw-x500, dji's drones,... wifi is not the way to go, if you quickly want to unload a bunch of 256gb-cards.

I appreciate and agree with your perspective based on your use cases and explanation. The challenge is that there is not a unitary profile of a “Pro” user. There are “Media“ Pro users and “Developer“ Pro users just to name two. Hopefully we can agree that these Pro users can have different perspectives on the utility of different MacBook Pro features. And users in both categories operate in environments where ports are more or less important. For example, some companies prohibit the use of any external media (including SD/Flash drives) with company network connected devices — while other companies are more permissive.

It is this varied user continuum and increasingly cloud-centered business and consumer environment that Apple makes product decisions for. The resulting changes will impact different “Pro”users in different ways. I initially bemoaned the switch to only USB-C ports; but eventually embraced iCloud Documents and found ways to adapt my workflows to the point where I no longer think about it. The switch to the TouchBar was similar, but I eventually found the dynamic function keys to be a net neutral-to-positive change after accepting this change.

None of this dismisses the fact that there are others with use cases that make these changes more difficult or perhaps impossible to adapt to. As a result I suspect we will continue to have similar debates as technology and our beloved Mac platforms evolve. So thank you, I appreciate your informed and reasonable perspective and demeanor. 🙏🏼

 

[Detnator]

"Since then I’ve embraced the Apple ecosystem (including iCloud storage) and have only picked up my digital camera a handful of times and only for nostalgic purposes — as my iPhone is convenient and all the camera I need. "

What the what???

So adopting the Apple ecosystem means you have to give up better photographs? Is there a tattoo you need to get as well?

NO smartphone can come close to what even your $1000 DSLR's can achieve in auto mode no less. Sure if you just want quick pictures it is fine for most. If you want good to great photos then put down the smartphone and pickup a camera. Yes you see some great shots from a iPhone from pro photographers that have the iPhone in some rig that you will never have and then heavily edited in software.

So you’re carrying around thousands of dollars worth of camera equipment and accessories, and a laptop, and one more adapter is a big deal?

Right. Ok.

Apple, please don’t put SD back into the MBP just for him when most of the rest of us don’t want it taking space that can be better used for cooling, more battery, or countless other things.