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Hands-On With the New 'Portrait' Mode Beta Feature in the iPhone 7 Plus

adamneer said:
I don't understand why I keep reading/hearing that DSLRs can't show depth of field live. Of course they can - it's not an effect that requires processing using a DSLR, it's just the natural characteristics of the lens optics and aperture. If this were true, you'd never be able to manually focus an image using live view mode on a DSLR.
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Yes it's quite ridiculous how badly researched these claims are. With mirrorless cameras especially, you have no trouble fully previewing the actual final result. However, it is worth noting that a DSLR makes it impossible to see the actual depth of field for larger aperture lenses due to the fresnel effect of the pentaprism apparatus. Basically what happens is the maximum aperture size is limited, specifically it's about f/2.8 for a 35mm full frame camera and f/4 for APS-C cameras.

So if you had it in your mind that you were shooting with an actual DSLR (not mirrorless, not rangefinders) with a lens at f/1.4 (or equivalent if using a non-135 format camera) then it's actually true that it's not possible to preview the final result through the viewfinder.

Of course, I haven't seen a DSLR that couldn't also shoot in live view mode if you wanted to do that. And the in-between design of the Sony SLT cameras has no such limit on maximum aperture that can be previewed at any time.

Basically, even with the caveat mentioned, this is an incredibly ignorant claim (and not one that Apple is making, afaik.)
 
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vertsix said:
I'm interested to hear what iPhone 7 Plus users think about this feature. Looks like a gimmick to me.
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A gimmick ? Lol
As a photographer being able to get a dof of I believe 2.2 is not a gimmick. It's amazing a camera that small can do that
 
I'm a DSLR shooter, and I'm impressed by the results. I hope they tweak it to allow different bokeh effects in software rather than the plain gaussian blur. (it can be done rather easily)

Here is an example of what software bokeh effects can look like: http://www.lens-blur.com/
accurate-simulator-web.jpg
 
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adamneer said:
I don't understand why I keep reading/hearing that DSLRs can't show depth of field live. Of course they can - it's not an effect that requires processing using a DSLR, it's just the natural characteristics of the lens optics and aperture. If this were true, you'd never be able to manually focus an image using live view mode on a DSLR.
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What you are saying is very true, on DSLR cameras this effect is achieved by aperture settings and we call it natural. However, I think it really doesn't matter what we call it, if the difference of the one made by software and the ones through aperture blades is not that great. And remember, this is the very early stage, it can only get better. It is fantastic for anyone who is not bothered to ever buy DSLR camera. The ones serious about photography know very well that a smartphone camera won't be able to replace DSLR, at least not on the very near future.
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zachkolk said:
Lol, all DSLRs do it. I'm not sure what Apple is actually claiming here.
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Apple is not claiming anything. Forum members are. Read above......
 
Just to clear one thing up - I believe Phil Schiller DID say during the keynote that previewing depth of field is not possible via DSLRs. That is why all the blog posts about this feature have been spreading this misinformation.
 
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Bromeo said:
Leica M user here (film and digital with lenses going back 50 years thanks to my grandpa who had quite a nice setup). I love shallow depth of field shooting, which is partly an artifact of low-light work, but can be used artistically. I hope it can be dialed back to be a bit more subtle.

As the saying goes, the best camera is the one you have with you. I find my iPhone a wonderful tool for that reason.

I'm tempted by the 7 Plus, not to replace my real camera, but to improve the shots I already use my iPhone for.

Ironically, this new iPhone feature needs "lots of light" to work well, where as my f/1.2 35mm lens is a favorite for night photography in the city. It's a mass of glass and metal, though, compared to the svelte glass and metal of the iPhone.
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Respect to you. I was about to write something similar as photographer what you did but no need anymore. I do hate these fake effects which are natural to right lighting and lens combination but hey, what can we do. I am just sort of purist. If Apple some day makes "DSLR", it would have only the "green mode" and bunch of artificial filters and effects...
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smacrumon said:
Bring this to the non plus model please.
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They wont, Apple wants you to buy the bigger model.
 
hspace said:
If he said it, he is dead wrong. Literally every DSLR does this.
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adamneer said:
http://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2016/

He did. Its at around 76:39
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Let me explain something everyone doesn't seem to understand. Technically he is correct for saying what he said.

The way the iPhone live depth of field works is by being continuous and always automatically adjusting as long as you're in portrait mode.

The way dslr cameras live depth of field mode works is by the user adjusting the settings on the camera and then pressing the depth of field button to get the live preview. If the user moves his position it will not automatically change because the camera is locked into that f-stop, it will remain at the same depth of field.

The iPhone 7 plus constantly analyzes the scene and makes adjustments even if the user moves his/her position, proximity to the subject etc. The iPhone is automatically changing depth of field on the fly. Dslr cameras cannot do the same as you must change the settings on the camera manually and then press the preview button.
 
ke-iron said:
Let me explain something everyone doesn't seem to understand. Technically he is correct for saying what he said.
....
The iPhone 7 plus constantly analyzes the scene and makes adjustments even if the user moves his/her position, proximity to the subject etc. The iPhone is automatically changing depth of field on the fly. Dslr cameras cannot do the same as you must change the settings on the camera manually and then press the preview button.
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Let me explain something that *you* don't seem to understand. A DSLR - when viewing through the viewfinder - always uses the widest possible aperture of the attached lens. For example f/1.8. (The aperture that gives you the maximum blur/bokeh) So what you see is what you are going to get.

It is only if you want to preview a smaller aperture (for example f/11, which would have much less bokeh and more of the scene in focus) that you would use the depth of field preview button.

The DOP preview button works the opposite way you think it does.
 
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Scottsoapbox said:
The effect doesn't look real to me. It looks like (good) photoshopping.

The issue is lack of transition between the in focus object and everything else. Bokeh from a DSLR (or your eyes) will have areas that are almost in focus transitioning to completely out of focus. Apple's does not.
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Well of course, because it isn't real bokeh.
This is just a nice blur filter applied to the picture. I love bokeh, I have a 50mm lens on my DSLR for portraits and they look amazing while pictures taken with 7+ are cool, but look artificial. There is no other way they can achieve the same effect with the lens on the iPhone so I think they made a great job, but of course the quality you can get from a DSLR is far superior. Even Schiller said that during the keynote
 
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ke-iron said:
Let me explain something everyone doesn't seem to understand. Technically he is correct for saying what he said.

The way the iPhone live depth of field works is by being continuous and always automatically adjusting as long as you're in portrait mode.

The way dslr cameras live depth of field mode works is by the user adjusting the settings on the camera and then pressing the depth of field button to get the live preview. If the user moves his position it will not automatically change because the camera is locked into that f-stop, it will remain at the same depth of field.

The iPhone 7 plus constantly analyzes the scene and makes adjustments even if the user moves his/her position, proximity to the subject etc. The iPhone is automatically changing depth of field on the fly. Dslr cameras cannot do the same as you must change the settings on the camera manually and then press the preview button.
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semantics and obfuscation.

the iphone needs to do this real-time to emulate the depth-of-view view of larger-sensor dslrs.

dslrs dont need to do this 'live' because what one sees through the viewfinder, or via lcd, is already an image that the iphone is trying to emulate.
[doublepost=1474528507][/doublepost]although what phil says is true. it is advanced for a cell phone, and probably the best (in all measures - ease of use, speed, color, etc) cell phone camera ever. and for many people, probably the best camera theyve had access to.

thats all about correct.
 
I hate that the Plus model gets all the "goodies". I realy don't need to walk around with a ping pong paddle in my pocket (i would need a cargo pants to fit it anyways, or always wear a jacket or something). This is freakin STUPID :(.
 
kstotlani said:
I think HTC did this better with a different tech. The software technique has already been used by Sony, Smaug and GoPro. All this a few years back. Not saying that iPhone 7 is not good, just saying this magic happened a few years ago for other phones and every brand has improved their tech. Here is the link from 2014 but I am sure I have seen this tech way before. That being said I am glad Apple finally did it.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-One-M8-Duo-Camera-explained-always-on-refocus_id54244
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Wow those pictures shown in the link produced by the HTC are shockingly poor - they look almost laughably bad!

So far every Apple portrait effect shot I've seen (including the MR demo) look very passable as shallow DOF images to all but the most discerning viewer & I can see me using it a lot!
 
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"Portrait" mode? Judging from that video it should be called "Landscape" mode. (Haha--sorry, the geeky graphic designer in me couldn't resist.) :cool:
 
ke-iron said:
Let me explain something everyone doesn't seem to understand. Technically he is correct for saying what he said.

The way the iPhone live depth of field works is by being continuous and always automatically adjusting as long as you're in portrait mode.

The way dslr cameras live depth of field mode works is by the user adjusting the settings on the camera and then pressing the depth of field button to get the live preview. If the user moves his position it will not automatically change because the camera is locked into that f-stop, it will remain at the same depth of field.

The iPhone 7 plus constantly analyzes the scene and makes adjustments even if the user moves his/her position, proximity to the subject etc. The iPhone is automatically changing depth of field on the fly. Dslr cameras cannot do the same as you must change the settings on the camera manually and then press the preview button.
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DSLRs most certainly CAN do this- it's called auto focus. Why is this so hard to understand? A DSLR doesn't need to apply a blur effect because the blur is inherent to the large lens and wide open aperture. If you want to be technical, then yes, technically DSLRs aren't capable of displaying a photo at infinite focus with an artificial blur effect applied concurrently, through the use of an offset dual lens design which captures a depth map. But I didn't see any asterisks under Phil when he said what he said. He said it because he has limited knowledge of DSLRs and figured the majority of consumers share this limited knowledge.
 
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It should also probably be noted that most of us that are pointing this fact out (and it is a fact) are simply pointing out a false marketing statement, and are not demeaning the capability of the dual lens iPhone Plus. In fact I welcome the feature and plan to make use of it. Most of us know that an iPhone camera will NEVER come close to DSLR quality. So "portrait mode" is a neat feature for such a tiny camera. But to be honest, a feature I'd prefer they try and improve is the lens sharpness and noise, which are the dead giveaways (without paying any attention to the bokeh effects) that photos were take from a phone.
 
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