Has Apple just abandoned AppleTV?

[Juicy Box]

You kidding right? That’s like saying why does the iPhone need to be released every year.

I think an argument could be made about the unneeded yearly updates of the iPhone, but a huge difference between the iPhone and the ATV is competition.

Yearly updates from Apple and its competitors push higher and better specs, newer features, and new designs.

That just isn't the case for streaming boxes.

Besides, the A10X still outperformance the competition, and in some cases, it isn't remotely close. Features wise, there really isn't too much HW features being offered that can be upgraded compare to phones and other mobile devices.

The one thing (only thing?) that the current generation of ATV is lacking is the newer HDMI standard, a relatively minor HW feature compared to stuff like cameras, antennas, charging features, etc. of a phone.

 

[oneMadRssn]

What software gets more complicated? The iPhone is already a powerhorse that is capable of doing whatever you throw at it. It doesn’t NEED to be updated, it’s updated because Apple know how sheeple salivate over a new feature or hardware. It’s what makes them a trillion dollar company.

It's pretty easy to list hardware features that I want to improve in a phone - longer battery life, better cameras, better screen, more storage.

There are some for AppleTV, but not nearly as many. The hardware as it is today is 98% good enough.

 

[oneMadRssn]

OP what exactly are you looking for that is lacking in the current ATV hardware wise?

I generally think the current AppleTV 4k is fine as it is, other than needing a price-drop. But to play devil's advocate -

1. Better connectivity:
- WiFi6
- 10GbE

2. Better audio support:
- Full Atmos passthrough
- ARC2.0 support

3. OTA support (never gonna happen, but I can dream)
- An Apple in-house version of Amazon Fire TV Recard / HD HomeRun

 

[Juicy Box]

- 10GbE

For what????

 

[Realityck]

'

I generally think the current AppleTV 4k is fine as it is, other than needing a price-drop. But to play devil's advocate -

1. Better connectivity:
- WiFi6
- 10GbE

2. Better audio support:
- Full Atmos passthrough
- ARC2.0 support

3. OTA support (never gonna happen, but I can dream)
- An Apple in-house version of Amazon Fire TV Recard / HD HomeRun

Better connectivity would be allowing split video/audio via 2 HDMI ports for increased compatibility of many systems not fully 4K HDR DV compliant.

Both WiFi6 and 10 Gb Ethernet are overkill against streaming, but you're likely thinking of streaming ripped media from a NAS.

But ATV4K tvOS needs to becomes more akin to a iPadOS rather then this very limited tvOS with its restricted set of apps. Yes I just don't see the same level of streaming app support comparing the two OS environments IMHO.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Both WiFi6 and 10 Gb Ethernet are overkill against streaming, but you're likely thinking of streaming ripped media from a NAS.

Correct, streaming those sweet remuxes...err...linux isos from a NAS.

I agree that 10GbE is overkill. But the cost of 10GbE hardware is coming down, so it would be cool to have for futureproofing.

WiFi6 might be overkill for speed, but ideally you want all devices on a WiFi network to support the same WiFi spec so that MU-MIMO and steering and all that can properly work it's magic. So those folks that upgrade to Wifi6 APs, and get new iPhones and iPads and Macs all with WiFi6, eventually they'll want to replace all their WiFi5 and older devices.

 

[morningsong]

I don't disagree that the current AppleTV is capable to do what it needs to, but I refuse to pay a 3 year old price for it.
So that's why some will wait.

 

[nutmac]

OP what exactly are you looking for that is lacking in the current ATV hardware wise?

Not OP, but for streaming:

• HDMI 2.1 as some of my TVs have HDMI 2.1 and I would like Quick Media Switching among others
• Better up-scaler, similar to NVIDIA SHIELD
• More codecs, such as H.266/VVC and AV1

And for non-streaming:

• Few more buttons on the remote control, redesigned for better ergonomics and less prone to accidental gesture, U1 for Find My, and MagSafe wireless charging
• Faster processor and HDMI 2.1 for lag-free Apple Arcade
• Apple designed gaming controller
• WiFi 6

 

[addictive]

I don't disagree that the current AppleTV is capable to do what it needs to, but I refuse to pay a 3 year old price for it.
So that's why some will wait.

Absolutely. We know that Apple doesn't drop their prices they just replace with newer internals on the next iteration. After three years there are many people wanting to buy an Apple TV that know a newer model is coming (through leaks in iOS code etc..). I'm one of those waiting to buy the next iteration and not because I want the most capable CPU I just never pay full price on multi-year old technology.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I agree that 10GbE is overkill. But the cost of 10GbE hardware is coming down, so it would be cool to have for futureproofing.

Future proofing for what? When are you ever going to saturate even a 1Gbit/s ethernet connection on an Apple TV?

 

[oneMadRssn]

Future proofing for what? When are you ever going to saturate even a 1Gbit/s ethernet connection on an Apple TV?

Well, let's have some fun, shall we? A UHD BR rip maxes out at 128Mbps. So if I was playing 2 such rips simultaneously (one of them PIP), plus some overhead, I would need ... 300Mbps at most. Ok, that doesn't do it. Let's look at something truly absurd instead.

It was recently revealed that the theater-version of Avengers Endgame, the DCP download, for the 2D+3D package is 505GB for a 183 minute movie. If that leaked online and someone downloaded it to their NAS, and Infuse was updated to support that file format, and the ATV needed to read that package in real-time from the NAS, doing all the decoding and separating locally, some rough math here, that would require 368Mbps. So if we played 2 of those simultaneously (PIP!), plus some overhead, I might come close to saturating a 1Gbps ethernet connection. But it wouldn't buffer very quickly, I would need 10GbE to have that buffer reasonably.

Yes, it's absurd. I said the ATV is fine as it is, just needs a price drop. I was just playing devil's advocate, trying to identify hardware that could be improved, but doesn't necessarily need to be improved. It doesn't actually need 10GbE.

 

[orbital~debris]

Not OP, but for streaming:

• HDMI 2.1 as some of my TVs have HDMI 2.1 and I would like Quick Media Switching among others
• Better up-scaler, similar to NVIDIA SHIELD
• More codecs, such as H.266/VVC and AV1

And for non-streaming:

• Few more buttons on the remote control, redesigned for better ergonomics and less prone to accidental gesture, U1 for Find My, and MagSafe wireless charging
• Faster processor and HDMI 2.1 for lag-free Apple Arcade
• Apple designed gaming controller
• WiFi 6

• MagSafe charging is a great idea.
  • But also would enable innovative remote safekeeping options (thinking fabric-based sofa/couch items that the remote might attach to, to help a future Siri remote doing a run for it down the back of the cushions!).
• Also, add an Apple Taptic Engine and give the interface haptic feedback – I suspect that could alleviate interface navigation issues some people have with the touchpad. Would also be good to integrate that with Apple Arcade as that could roughly tie-in with Sony's new PS5 ballpark.
• Also, now that Dashboard is no more on the Mac, give tvOS a widget overlay (there's been a start in this direction if you look at the lovely custom Weather interface invoked via Siri).

 

[UKgaryb]

I gave up on the Apple TV now, I bought a Google Chromecast with Google TV it's better than the Apple TV at a 1/3rd of the price.

 

[Audit13]

No automatic frame rate switching and lack of iTunes support has me keeping my 2017 Shield and Apple TV 4k to cover all streaming services and local file playback via usb drive.

 

[honglong1976]

I gave up on the Apple TV now, I bought a Google Chromecast with Google TV it's better than the Apple TV at a 1/3rd of the price.

I did the same, sold my Apple TV HD and bought an Amazon Fire TV 4k for 29.99.

Incredibly overpriced for what it is and compared to the competition, which is a shame because I would rather have an Apple TV.

I had some films (SMB) that would not play on the Apple TV, but play flawlessly on the Fire TV and it also supports Dolby Atmos (which I use with my AirPod Pros and FE Explorer).

 

[Wolfpup]

I gave up on the Apple TV now, I bought a Google Chromecast with Google TV it's better than the Apple TV at a 1/3rd of the price.

what do you like better about it? Between the higher price, Apple not updating it, and my apple account getting locked all the time mow, I’m heavily thinking of a FireTV cube or Chromecast with GoogleTV now.

No automatic frame rate switching and lack of iTunes support has me keeping my 2017 Shield and Apple TV 4k to cover all streaming services and local file playback via usb drive.

You mean the Chromecast with GoogleTV doesn’t? What does thst mean in practical terms for streaming for like Disney+ or Tubi or whatever?

I did the same, sold my Apple TV HD and bought an Amazon Fire TV 4k for 29.99.

Incredibly overpriced for what it is and compared to the competition, which is a shame because I would rather have an Apple TV.

I had some films (SMB) that would not play on the Apple TV, but play flawlessly on the Fire TV and it also supports Dolby Atmos (which I use with my AirPod Pros and FE Explorer).

how do you get content on your FireTV? It seems like it’s less well equipped to do that versus chromecast, AppleTV, and Roku, BUT last night I sort of worked out that I think I can turn on built in media server in windows 10, and then use VLC on FireTV to watch stuff. (I’m leery about third party programs, but I love vlc on Windows and I assume this is by the same people and non-sketchy).

I tested the idea out by turning it on on Windows 10 then streaming it on vlc on my iPad, and while for some reason it took forever to show up, it did then see, to work flawlessly save that it doesn’t remember my playback position.

I do like that chromecast I can just do through a chrome tab (though don’t know how well it works...streaming that way to my google home is choppy so maybe this method is actually better). AppleTV I can do it through iTunes, which works well when it works (I have to reboot stuff a lot for my apple software to see each other) and Roku supports local storage, and airplay, and I guess upnp also with a built in program, while FireTV requires a third party app...though if it’s the same people who make the Windows program, that’s maybe just fine. (I’ve donated to them before!)

 

[honglong1976]

what do you like better about it? Between the higher price, Apple not updating it, and my apple account getting locked all the time mow, I’m heavily thinking of a FireTV cube or Chromecast with GoogleTV now.



You mean the Chromecast with GoogleTV doesn’t? What does thst mean in practical terms for streaming for like Disney+ or Tubi or whatever?



how do you get content on your FireTV? It seems like it’s less well equipped to do that versus chromecast, AppleTV, and Roku, BUT last night I sort of worked out that I think I can turn on built in media server in windows 10, and then use VLC on FireTV to watch stuff. (I’m leery about third party programs, but I love vlc on Windows and I assume this is by the same people and non-sketchy).

I tested the idea out by turning it on on Windows 10 then streaming it on vlc on my iPad, and while for some reason it took forever to show up, it did then see, to work flawlessly save that it doesn’t remember my playback position.

I do like that chromecast I can just do through a chrome tab (though don’t know how well it works...streaming that way to my google home is choppy so maybe this method is actually better). AppleTV I can do it through iTunes, which works well when it works (I have to reboot stuff a lot for my apple software to see each other) and Roku supports local storage, and airplay, and I guess upnp also with a built in program, while FireTV requires a third party app...though if it’s the same people who make the Windows program, that’s maybe just fine. (I’ve donated to them before!)

I use this on the Fire TV

Nova Video Player:Amazon.co.uk:Appstore for Android

VLC is ok, but there is a lag with audio. Nova works perfect and plays any soundtrack.

Nova connects to my Time Capsule HDD via SMB.

 

[Audit13]

You mean the Chromecast with GoogleTV doesn’t? What does thst mean in practical terms for streaming for like Disney+ or Tubi or whatever?

If you have the Chromecast output resolution set to 4k 60 and the video's frame rate is 4k 23.976, the Chromecast will internally change the framerate to 60. This came cause judder and dropped frames. Not everyone can detect it but some can and it bothers them because the video isn't smooth.

 

[gnasher729]

This year has seen more 8K TV's, AVR's with 8K passthrough, HDMI 2.1/HDCP 2.3 ports more commonplace. So it not too hard to predict a ATV 8K coming available with double the memory, and a A14 likely.
YouTube is now working with 4K with ATV4K, so all the major apps are now up to par.
Must be closer to when it gets replaced compared to last year.

Would you like to know how much I care about 8K TV? The number is zero. Not at all. Leave me out of it.
Would you like to know how much I care about 4K TV? Same number. Zero.
Do you know how much I care about the memory in my AppleTV? It works, so I don't care about the memory.

 

[Eric Idle]

What’s changed so much that there needed to be a new one before now?

The competition is walking all over Apple. New releases left and right. Apple has abandoned TV.

 

[Eric Idle]

The Apple TV is still one of the best streaming devices available, at least on the hardware side, since it supports Dolby Atmos, which not many streaming players do, and has plenty of horsepower, as the A10X is potent. There is no need to update it for the sake of updating it.

When has Apple EVER gone 3 years without updating products that they care about? Answer: Never.

 

[Eric Idle]

In the words of the late Steve Jobs - the Apple TV is a hobby.
I agree with a lot of comments above, what is there to change, other than a processor bump, it's the software that drives the user experience. App developers have been lazy on this platform, other than a few gaming developers, no one seems to be bothered. At this stage, with the Apple TV 4K and it's A10X it's plenty fast enough. Sure you could add faster wifi, I prefer using ethernet for this device, as the bandwidth on a wireless router impacts on it's use elsewhere.
There will of course be an upgrade, but apple don't upgrade these products that often, who knows why, but I'd guess it's a lot of hard work, for what result? Mac mini, Mac Pro and the iMac are examples of products that are often longer in the tooth that users on here would like. Right now, I'm guessing the pandemic is having a major say on many things, the news today of there being something in the works is encouraging, but people need to chill a little.
We don't decide what Apple will make, they will do that themselves, based on their research into user experience, and the drive that has been the culture since day one, to make the best. If they can't, they won't.

Apple's neglect of Apple TV came home to bite them REAL bad during the pandemic. Gaming consoles sold by the bazillions as people were stuck at home. My kids think Apple TV games are THE worst there are. I had to buy them a second console to help get them through constant home confinement. Apple could have been a leader here, but they utterly dropped the ball. Big time.

 

[Eric Idle]

The current gen Apple TV is more than capable for anything you can throw at it currently. The only reason to upgrade would be more oomph for games.

It's pitiful for games. Apple Arcade is a joke on Apple TV.

 

[JBaby]

The competition is walking all over Apple. New releases left and right. Apple has abandoned TV.

Sure Eric. Just to be perfectly clear this is sarcasm.

 

[Eric Idle]

You'd think with Apple TV+ launched last year and the pandemic this year, Apple would have made a major push to get a new set out since more folks are home.

You would think that, but since Apple has no commitment to Apple TV, it never happened.