Has the AppleTV been a failure?

[Barbareren]

Yep, and there’s the special remote (superior to any TV remote by far), the connection to wireless remotes/joysticks for games, and the storage capacity for all your apps etc. Which is something a 2022 smart TV simply cannot compete with, despite having the Apple TV app and AirPlay. Not to mention how much more functional a projector, or an older TV, is when connected to an Apple TV ?

 

[Barbareren]

I don't game so for me I don't notice. But yes Apple Arcade has perhaps been a failure.

Sadly, it doesn’t seem like they’re putting much resources into the Arcade segment. Which is sad, because I’m paying extra for the service. Yet, I do very much enjoy some of the games they have to offer (the catalog is just still way too small…).

Like I mentioned, I’m no gamer either, but I do enjoy the occasional game. And how convenient isn’t it to be able to connect a proper game controller/joystick and be playing a game within seconds? On how many gaming systems can you do that today? I don’t have the time, nor the will, to spend hours to get into a game and watch all the stupid videos within said games…

I’m an old school gamer from the late 80’s and 90’s. I’ve never been able to like the huge, extensive new games and their excessive loading times… I’ve tried, but they just end up annoying me, lol.
I don’t have the patience. Perhaps I’m old, but I don’t care. In that way the Apple TV actually works as a pretty decent, albeit still very basic (limited library), game console for me… ?

 

[jwolf6589]

Sadly, it doesn’t seem like they’re putting much resources into the Arcade segment. Which is sad, because I’m paying extra for the service. Yet, I do very much enjoy some of the games they have to offer (the catalog is just still way too small…).

Like I mentioned, I’m no gamer either, but I do enjoy the occasional game. And how convenient isn’t it to be able to connect a proper game controller/joystick and be playing a game within seconds? On how many gaming systems can you do that today? I don’t have the time, nor the will, to spend hours to get into a game and watch all the stupid videos within said games…

I’m an old school gamer from the late 80’s and 90’s. I’ve never been able to like the huge, extensive new games and their excessive loading times… I’ve tried, but they just end up annoying me, lol.
I don’t have the patience. Perhaps I’m old, but I don’t care. In that way the Apple TV actually works as a pretty decent, albeit still very basic (limited library), game console for me… ?

The last time I played a game a real game was 20 years ago with the PlayStation. I love baseball and in those days everything with disc based. Are they still? I would like to play a updated baseball game and don’t want to play on a puny iPhone screen. I also want a controller. Do I have to buy a updated PlayStation?

 

[-Gonzo-]

The last time I played a game a real game was 20 years ago with the PlayStation. I love baseball and in those days everything with disc based. Are they still? I would like to play a updated baseball game and don’t want to play on a puny iPhone screen. I also want a controller. Do I have to buy a updated PlayStation?

This in on Apple Arcade

 

[Barbareren]

This in on Apple Arcade

The new Apple TV has an A12 chip, right? I have no idea about the RAM (3GB?)… So, technically, it should be comparable to the PS4 I think… Yet, the (more intensive) Arcade games have long loading times even though the versions are not as complete as, for example, their PlayStation counterparts… Like the loading times of Rayman on the Apple TV are comparable to the loading times on a PS3 (I have several Rayman games on that console to compare with), even though the ATV version is more simplistic… I would have expected more from Apple’s Arcade service, but at least it’s not too bad for casual gaming, and it’s only like 3 bucks a month, so I guess I shouldn’t complain, but I had hoped for more by now, as it has had a lot of time to improve already… I guess Apple has already decided that it’s not worth their time and effort to really get into the gaming market amirite…?

 

[jwolf6589]

The new Apple TV has an A12 chip, right? I have no idea about the RAM (3GB?)… So, technically, it should be comparable to the PS4 I think… Yet, the (more intensive) Arcade games have long loading times even though the versions are not as complete as, for example, their PlayStation counterparts… Like the loading times of Rayman on the Apple TV are comparable to the loading times on a PS3 (I have several Rayman games on that console to compare with), even though the ATV version is more simplistic… I would have expected more from Apple’s Arcade service, but at least it’s not too bad for casual gaming, and it’s only like 3 bucks a month, so I guess I shouldn’t complain, but I had hoped for more by now, as it has had a lot of time to improve already… I guess Apple has already decided that it’s not worth their time and effort to really get into the gaming market amirite…?

Yes the new ATV uses the same chip as my iPad Mini 5 which is the A12. I have no idea about RAM as TVOS does not need as much RAM as iPad OS to operate. My Mini 5 has 3GB however.

 

[Sampire51]

The smart TV people will say that one can airplay to a smart TV so you don't need a ATV but they forget about the higher audio quality of the ATV and the more features of the photos app in the ATV that is better than just using airplay on a smart TV.

A lot of people don't care about those things. The average consumer isn't an apple enthusiast on MacRumors. Most people will just care about cost, and the AppleTV is higher than anything else you can get on the market right now. They will go for something cheaper than the AppleTV that does pretty much the same thing. I never used the Photos app when I had an AppleTV. I am not a gamer so Apple Arcade is out. I would not use the airpods feature as well because I live alone and don't care if I disturb anyone Most people just want to stream Netflix, HBOMax, and Hulu. They don't need all the bells and whistles of AppleTV.

You asked if the AppleTV was a failure and then got upset when people said they thought it was lol You don't need us to justify your purchase. You love the AppleTV and I love that for you.

 

[Juicy Box]

Most people just want to stream Netflix, HBOMax, and Hulu.

Exactly.

I wished the Apple TV did better, I wished Apple paid more attention to it, I wished Apple would take advantage of the potential power of the ATV, but the fact is, most people don't care about the extra features that make the ATV a better device, they are happy getting 90% of what the Apple TV does, but at an extremely steep discount.

The OP's questions, is the ATV a failure (without defining failure), I think yes it is a failure in many ways. That doesn't make it a bad device, as something can be the best, and still a failure. Actually, it happens often.

You asked if the AppleTV was a failure and then got upset when people said they thought it was

Yeah, I don't get it either.

The OP had a very similar thread this time last year, and seemed to have gotten upset at the answers:

Do appleTV’s sell well?

Perhaps a new model is all rumor is because Apple TV’s do not sell well. Does anyone know?

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Juicy Box]

but what will it be in 2 or 5 years? To keep up with whatever new standards there are (8k, whatever) Samsung will require you to buy a new TV. With an Apple TV you just replace it with the latest model. No need to throw out that screen. It took LG, what, a year to add the Apple TV app and air play to the C8. They weren't going to do it at all until there was an uproar from their customers.

But, you get get close to the same result with a much cheaper purchase of a Roku or Fire streaming device, and a lot cheaper price.

I am not saying other devices are better than the Apple TV, actually I think the Apple TV is the best streaming device.

Just not good enough for most people to pay the extra amount for it, which is one of the reasons the Apple TV has dropped to a tiny % of marketshare, down from being on top 10 years ago.

 

[priitv8]

Just not good enough for most people to pay the extra amount for it, which is one of the reasons the Apple TV has dropped to a tiny % of marketshare, down from being on top 10 years ago.

Considering that appleTV launched with price tag of $299 in 2006, which equals $423.59 in 2022, I would say it has become more affordable over time.

 

[Juicy Box]

Just not good enough for most people to pay the extra amount for it, which is one of the reasons the Apple TV has dropped to a tiny % of marketshare, down from being on top 10 years ago.

Considering that appleTV launched with price tag of $299 in 2006, which equals $423.59 in 2022, I would say it has become more affordable over time.

A huge difference between then and now is that the ATV1 had no competition at all, but a similarity between then and now is that the ATV1 did not sell well, just like the ATV4K.


It wasn't until the ATV2, which launched at $99, that the Apple TVs started selling well. The big feature for it back then was that it included Netflix as an app.

The ATV3 end up launching with the same price, that was later dropped to $69. This was when Apple dominated the streaming box market, not the ATV1.

The competition has since lowered their prices while offering a similar experience. Around the same time (2015), Apple decided to drastically increase their streaming box prices, without adding extra value to the product to justify the increase.

Now, with the Apple TV 4, 4K1, and 4K2 prices at more than double than ATV3, the competition prices dropping, the Apple TV lost most of its marketshare.

 

[Juicy Box]

I would say it has become more affordable over time.

This is true for most electronics. But, as I mentioned above, the ATV4K2 is currently more than double the cost of the $69 ATV3, even with the adjustment of inflation.

Apple is doubling their streaming box prices, while the competition cut theirs in half.

Again, I think the Apple TV is the best streaming box, and wished Apple would give it more attention, unlocking its potential.... But, to the OP's question, the Apple TV could be considered a huge failure as it lost a lot of marketshare % to cheaper devices that do 80%-90% what the ATV can do.

 

[jwolf6589]

A huge difference between then and now is that the ATV1 had no competition at all, but a similarity between then and now is that the ATV1 did not sell well, just like the ATV4K.


It wasn't until the ATV2, which launched at $99, that the Apple TVs started selling well. The big feature for it back then was that it included Netflix as an app.

The ATV3 end up launching with the same price, that was later dropped to $69. This was when Apple dominated the streaming box market, not the ATV1.

The competition has since lowered their prices while offering a similar experience. Around the same time (2015), Apple decided to drastically increase their streaming box prices, without adding extra value to the product to justify the increase.

Now, with the Apple TV 4, 4K1, and 4K2 prices at more than double than ATV3, the competition prices dropping, the Apple TV lost most of its marketshare.

Not true, not true.. I used to own a ATV 3 and I tell you the new ATV4K is much much better. The OS has improved allot since then, and the unit is much nicer with more features.

 

[priitv8]

Again, I think the Apple TV is the best streaming box, and wished Apple would give it more attention, unlocking its potential.... But, to the OP's question, the Apple TV could be considered a huge failure as it lost a lot of marketshare % to cheaper devices that do 80%-90% what the ATV can do.

I think the same can be said about every Apple product, except the iPhone.
iPhone seems to be getting all of the attention.

 

[Juicy Box]

Not true, not true..

What part?

I used to own a ATV 3 and I tell you the new ATV4K is much much better. The OS has improved allot since then, and the unit is much nicer with more features.

I didn’t say that the devices did not evolve from one Gen to another. Just like the competition evolve. But, they are still just a streaming box.

Apple just doubled the price for theirs, while the competition cut theirs in half.

As the world started to embrace streaming, the much cheaper (and known) competition sold like crazy, while the ATV stalled.

 

[Juicy Box]

I think the same can be said about every Apple product, except the iPhone.
iPhone seems to be getting all of the attention.

Not really.

Answer this truthfully, when was the last time you saw an ATV+ advertisement on TV, YouTube, etc.? Now, think real hard, when was the last time you saw one for the Apple TV?

Now, instead of ATV+, think MBP, iMac, AW, or iPad.

Outside of the tech world (and sometimes even within) most people don’t know what the ATV is, and would probably think of ATV+ if asked about it, in my experience.

 

[Barbareren]

But, they are still just a streaming box.

Apple just doubled the price for theirs, while the competition cut theirs in half.

Stop making such statements, as they are simply not true.
1) The ATV is not merely a streaming box, end of discussion.
2) There really is no competition.

 

[Jack_SB]

Stop making such statements, as they are simply not true.
1) The ATV is not merely a streaming box, end of discussion.
2) There really is no competition.

What would you consider it to be then?
I’m just asking because I really can’t think of anything that other TV boxes can’t do (in general terms of course).
I’ve seen that you compared it with the PS3 in gaming (loading times?), but even if the PS3 is almost a 20 year old console, can you actually compare it with something like Apple Arcade?
Again, I just saw that post of yours. I would really like your hear your opinion.

 

[priitv8]

Now, instead of ATV+, think MBP, iMac, AW, or iPad.

I am thinking of slow, but steady discontinuance of both hardware and software products.
Especially sad to see the demise of Aperture. Now the macOS Server has seen slow castration over the years, until last month the discontinuance of it was also announced.

Essentially, the focus is on iPhone and iOS.

 

[Juicy Box]

The ATV is not merely a streaming box, end of discussion.

That is what the huge majority of people use the ATV for, imo.

Beside streaming, can you explain what else it does that the competition doesn't do?

It does games, but doesn't have anywhere close to the library that consoles have. The few gaming developers that took a chance on tvOS, have been leaving the platform as well.

There really is no competition.

Yeah, others have been leaving the Apple TV in the dust in terms of sales.

I will say this again, I think that the Apple TV is the best streaming box, but just because something is the best, doesn't make it successful.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple discontinued the ATV.

Stop making such statements, as they are simply not true.

What statements did I say that wasn't true?

That the Apple TV doubled in price while the competition cut theirs in half?

Look up the prices of Roku, which was the ATV2's biggest competitor in 2010's:
Roku has three tiers, ranging from $70 to $100.
The Google TV devices were multiple brands, but started at $300.
The Fire TV didn't launch yet, but when it did a few years later in 2014, it was $99. Competing against the ATV3, then.

Check out the prices of Roku, Amazon, and Google's devices now:
Roku is priced in the $30-$40 range.
Amazon's and Google's are priced in the $20-$30 range.

So, cutting their prices in half or more.


Apple had the ATV3 priced at $69 when the competition dropped their prices. Instead of keeping with a (relatively) low priced streaming box, Apple more than doubled the price of the ATV4 at $150, and then increased it again with the ATV4K1 and ATV4K2.

So, where did I get this wrong?

 

[jwolf6589]

That is what the huge majority of people use the ATV for, imo.

Beside streaming, can you explain what else it does that the competition doesn't do?

It does games, but doesn't have anywhere close to the library that consoles have. The few gaming developers that took a chance on tvOS, have been leaving the platform as well.



Yeah, others have been leaving the Apple TV in the dust in terms of sales.

I will say this again, I think that the Apple TV is the best streaming box, but just because something is the best, doesn't make it successful.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple discontinued the ATV.


What statements did I say that wasn't true?

That the Apple TV doubled in price while the competition cut theirs in half?

Look up the prices of Roku, which was the ATV2's biggest competitor in 2010's:
Roku has three tiers, ranging from $70 to $100.
The Google TV devices were multiple brands, but started at $300.
The Fire TV didn't launch yet, but when it did a few years later in 2014, it was $99. Competing against the ATV3, then.

Check out the prices of Roku, Amazon, and Google's devices now:
Roku is priced in the $30-$40 range.
Amazon's and Google's are priced in the $20-$30 range.

So, cutting their prices in half or more.


Apple had the ATV3 priced at $69 when the competition dropped their prices. Instead of keeping with a (relatively) low priced streaming box, Apple more than doubled the price of the ATV4 at $150, and then increased it again with the ATV4K1 and ATV4K2.

So, where did I get this wrong?

Yeah and PC's have been leaving Macs in the dust in terms of sales for a long long time. Does this make PC's better than Mac's?

 

[Juicy Box]

Essentially, the focus is on iPhone and iOS.

I agree that most of the focus has been on iPhone and iOS, with maybe ATV+ closing in on the iPhone, but Apple still has plenty of focus on other HW products, especially the AW and AS laptops.

The ATV on the other hand, barely gets a mention at events.

 

[Juicy Box]

Yeah and PC's have been leaving Macs in the dust in terms of sales for a long long time. Does this make PC's better than Mac's?

No, not at all. And I never even came close to stating this.

Did you totally miss this part of the post you quoted:

I will say this again, I think that the Apple TV is the best streaming box, but just because something is the best, doesn't make it successful.

 

[Barbareren]

What would you consider it to be then?
I’m just asking because I really can’t think of anything that other TV boxes can’t do (in general terms of course).
I’ve seen that you compared it with the PS3 in gaming (loading times?), but even if the PS3 is almost a 20 year old console, can you actually compare it with something like Apple Arcade?
Again, I just saw that post of yours. I would really like your hear your opinion.

A communications hub which replaces my TV's software and my TV's remote, which also seamlessly interacts with all my Apple devices, plus it has internal storage and third party game controller support. Which other 'streaming device' would you say could do all that?

 

[Barbareren]

Beside streaming, can you explain what else it does that the competition doesn't do?

I've already explained that multiple times.