Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Has the AppleTV been a failure?
- Thread starter jwolf6589
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Not true. Roku and the others do not interact as well with apple devices. For example none can connect to my AirPods, be setup from the box by holding iPhone next to it, and they all lack the apple photos and music apps.
The ATV's competition have some features that are not on tvOS, so.... What is your point?
My response was to someone stating that the ATV is not a streaming box because it can do other things that the competition can't do.
The things you listed doesn't disqualify it from being a streaming box.
Last edited:
Actually...you can use AirPods (or any other bluetooth headset) with a Roku or Fire TV. (Or plug in wired headphones into the Roku remote.) 😉
Photos can be AirPlayed. It is not screen mirroring. AirPlay will download the originals from iCloud so you can view them in their full glory on the big screen, and can also view them as a slideshow.
Apple has a dedicated Music app for TVs and game consoles. They also just recently released an Apple Music app for Rokus. (https://www.macrumors.com/2022/05/02/apple-music-launching-on-roku)
How so, other than you can't view the thumbnails or albums directly on the TV? I just AirPlayed a slideshow for an album from a recent vacation...it had the background music, multiple photos per slide, video, and the fancy transitions. Is the end result not the same?
Perhaps but sometimes I have my phone on charge and am in front of my ATV and want to watch content such as now. My phone is charging so its not available while I am using my ATV.
I too would rather have a dedicated app than AirPlay from my phone, which is the big reason why I hated the original ChromeCast.
That said, it doesn't really matter.
The competition often has apps, such as photo apps, that tvOS doesn't have.
For example, Amazon Fire TV has an app for Amazon Photos. Apple has theirs.
IMO, this does not disqualify the Apple TV from being a streaming box. Especially since every streaming box has a similar feature.
Yes the AppleTV is a streaming box and yes it may be overpriced. However I still would rather use it over a dumb smart TV or Roku, or whatever. Yes I do have a smart TV and yes I have used Roku.
Not fair to compare a Roku to an Apple TV because they function differently.
Me too, we agree!
I have Fire TVs, a Roku, and Chrome Cast, but I would much rather use my ATVs. As I have said multiple times, I think the ATV is the best streaming box.
That said, the reason why I have non-ATV devices is because the ATVs starting with the 2015 ATV4 is too expensive to replace all my ATV3s with. The kids wanted apps that were not on the ATV3, and instead of spending over $1000 to replace all the ATV3s in my home, I bought one ATV4 for the main TV, later upgraded to an ATV4K, and Fire Sticks for the other TVs in my home.
I spend $70 for a Fire TV and 2 Fire Sticks on Amazon Day. Getting more ATV4Ks overtime which I gave two to my parents for them to cut the cord.
Getting to your original question, "Has the Apple TV been a failure?", I think yes. It lost its hold on the streaming Market with the expensive ATV4, and have only increased their prices while the competition has dramatically lowered theirs.
That doesn't mean that the competition has the best product, that just means that the competition has more successful sales, marketing, and marketshare.
It is fair to compare anything, as long as context is given. That is like saying it isn't fair to compare an EV to a ICE car. Or a closer analogy, saying it isn't fair comparing a MBA to an iPad.
The Apple TV does function different than the competition, but due to Apple's lack of interest in the platform, the ATV has be reduced to an overpriced streaming box. A really powerful one, the best one out there, but still, just a streaming box.
The early iPads often first compared to the iPhones, people saying it was just a "big iPhone". Apple took interest in the iPad, taking advantage of the larger size, changing the OS, making it different than an iPhone, and then advertised the differences, making it a successful product. Apple has yet to do that with the ATV.
You can, and people do, compare the Apple TV to gaming consoles, as the ATV could be a very capable gaming machine. Look at the Nintendo Switch. Only $100 more, and can do a lot of stuff that the ATV can do. It can also do a lot of stuff that the ATV cannot do, one of which is turn itself into a mobile platform.
Maybe but we are typing about an Apple TV and a Roku not cars or another hardware, as you stated context.
The Apple TV does function differently and that makes it eh special compared to the rest. It is a little more than "just" another streaming box, yeah somewhat overpriced lol, that integrates like no other because of the ecosystem. The function of a Roku is just streaming which it does very, very well.
Precisely. Finally someone who gets it! I've been going on about the same thing, but certain people can't even be bothered to read the posts one page back... I don't care whether the ATV has been a failure or not. Most likely it has, but I belive that's also due to the fact that most people simply don't know, or care, about the extra features the ATV offers. It all boils down to Apple's lack of proper marketing again, I suppose ?♂️ Anywho, whatever, it's always pointless arguing with haters. Learned as much from all the irrational hate the iPhone Mini has received on these boards, lol.
The thing is, as I have stated several times in this thread, Apple has always considered the ATV a "hobby" item; heck they even said it in one of their keynotes and in several interviews/articles. Which means, R&D, marketing and any other thing comes second or third to the ATV versus other products.
Could you explain how the ATV functions different than a Roku?
I think that the ATV functions more closely to a Roku or Fire TV than many other devices that are often compared, such as a laptop and tablet.
But, maybe I am missing something.
I agree, and have said so on this thread and others.
Not sure if that is in response to my posts, but I think maybe you should review earlier posts.
I have said many times that I think the Apple TV is the best streaming box. I am a long time Apple TV user, and own every model with the exception of the newest one. I am a long time Apple TV fan. I think that the Apple TV has so much potential, and could sell much better: If it utilized it power, making the price of it worth it; Or, if Apple would release a cheaper model to replace the ATV3; Or both....
Also, Apple needs to pay more attention to it, to include demoing it at events, advertising, and showing potential users the benefits of the ATV.
But... I don't think Apple is going to do any of that. I wouldn't be surprised if they discontinued it.
I have an iPhone 13 Mini. I like smaller phones.
That's nice, but the OP asked the question.
Just read back a couple pages and you people have been at it, lol. Makes you go, mmmm, (to borrow from Arsenal Hall) about how users of the Apple TV use it.
Half of you think you are discussing whether the ATV is a GOOD product, the other half are discussing whether it has been a SUCESSFUL product (or a failure).
These are (obviously?) different measures - but I don't think anyone is actually arguing that the ATV isn't GOOD. I think the consensus is that it hasn't been successful (commercially, by apple standards), because of cheaper competition and the improved offerings form smart TVs.
Some people are trying to counter the "not successful" claim by arguing that it's "better" than a firestick or whatever - but these are different discussions.
The real question is: despite the (potential and actual) advantages that the apple TV has, why hasn't it been more of a commercial success?
The answer for me is twofold:
Gaming. Apple has been unsuccessful in the gaming space so far, on all it's platforms. In my opinion, having the Apple TV also spec'd to perform as a gaming box is what is driving the high price (it's main barrier to market penetration).
Hobby. As I said earlier, the thing that frustrates me the most about the apple TV is it's unused potential. There is an awful lot of low-hanging-fruit (facetime?) which the apple TV could have used (along with a lower priced unit) to build a more successful product. At the point that you can't really point to why this powerful box is significantly better that a couple of apps on a smart TV, or a firestick or whatever...... you have failed.
These are (obviously?) different measures - but I don't think anyone is actually arguing that the ATV isn't GOOD. I think the consensus is that it hasn't been successful (commercially, by apple standards), because of cheaper competition and the improved offerings form smart TVs.
Some people are trying to counter the "not successful" claim by arguing that it's "better" than a firestick or whatever - but these are different discussions.
The real question is: despite the (potential and actual) advantages that the apple TV has, why hasn't it been more of a commercial success?
The answer for me is twofold:
Gaming. Apple has been unsuccessful in the gaming space so far, on all it's platforms. In my opinion, having the Apple TV also spec'd to perform as a gaming box is what is driving the high price (it's main barrier to market penetration).
Hobby. As I said earlier, the thing that frustrates me the most about the apple TV is it's unused potential. There is an awful lot of low-hanging-fruit (facetime?) which the apple TV could have used (along with a lower priced unit) to build a more successful product. At the point that you can't really point to why this powerful box is significantly better that a couple of apps on a smart TV, or a firestick or whatever...... you have failed.
Apple USED to consider the ATV a hobby, and you are correct, they officially referred to it as a "hobby" until the success of the Apple TV 2.
I forget which year it was, but after some milestone in revenue for the ATV2 and ATV3, Tim Cook said something like it wasn't a hobby for Apple anymore, and that a lot of R&D was being invested in the future of the ATV.
Then we got the ATV4, being the first ATV were Apple stopped referring it to as a hobby.
It didn't sell like the ATV2 and ATV3 did, which I blame Apple for. I think poor sales, Apple started to ignore the ATV, to moved investments to ATV+, leading to adding features that were once exclusive to the ATV (HomeKit, TV app, Apple Music, AirPlay, etc.) to competitor platforms.
I am not sure what you mean.
Exactly.
I have said it many times, and not just about the ATV, a product could be good, the best even, but still be considered a failure.
Since the OP never defined what he means by failure, it is up to the reader to interpret what "failure" actually is.
Yes, he said it, but the actions so far have demonstrated that they still believe it's a hobby. Also, the R&D invested has only come from the iPhone's R&D with the new A-series chips.
the ability to color balance your TV with your iPhone
Apple TV 4K as a home hub of HomeKit
Apple Music, TV+, Arcade, Fitness+ and Photos using an Apple ID are synced to all your other Apple devices.
Some points from an article
We talked to Apple to help break down the new Apple TV 4K | CNN Underscored
There's a new Apple TV 4K and Siri Remote in town. Besides testing it out for a week, CNN Underscored was one of the first outlets to chat with Apple about the refreshed Apple TV 4K.
For this
my bad, I forgot to get the link for the 9to5 article about the watch and tv.How to authorize Apple TV purchases on Apple Watch
I really like the Computers app because I can play movies from my hard drive using the Apple TV.
heck, trying to get a handle on this quote thing, lol, same reply to Juicy Box to ya.
Yeah, you seem to be right about that lol. And I agree with most of your other points as well. When you already have many Apple devices, I think the ATV makes sense, but if you don't, I suppose the cheaper alternatives might be a good enough solution. Where I live it has been impossible for a while now to get hold of a 13 Pro, they only have the 13 Pro Max in stock here, but I bet they have hundreds of ATVs in the back lol... Clearly most of the focus is on the iPhone... I'll keep enjoying my ATV regardless, though! I recon they will keep supporting it for many years to come, regardless of their focus being elsewhere and whether or not it's considered a 'failure'
No sh..t, from a phone it can be impossible sometimes, for whatever reason... ?♂️ MacRumors can be so temperamental lol
While these are really nice features to have, the primary function of what the ATV is mostly used for is typically streaming, imo.
Besides, a lot of things you mentioned are available in similar apps for other platforms. Apple Music and ATV+, for example, are available on other platforms.
As for HomeKit, and hubs, there are other Apple devices that can be used for hubs, so it isn't exclusive to the ATV. As most of the world is using other platforms for home automation (not me), a HomeKit hub is hardly a deal maker for most, imo.
I am very familiar with the Computer app, and used to use the it for my DVD collection until I found out (the hard way) that it couldn't be used offline when my internet cut out for a few days at my home. I have since went with PLEX, and it is a much better option. The UI is a lot better than the Computer app.
It is cross-platform, so it works on most non-Apple devices as well. It might be worth checking out if you haven't.
Getting to the original point of failure, I don't think that anything you mention makes the ATV so special that it cannot be directly compared with streaming boxes in terms of sales, marketshare, name/brand recognition, etc.
If anything, I think it is another failure on Apple, by not advertising the features of the Apple TV, differentiating it from the other streaming competition.
I have a lot of issues with MR on my iPhone, and it seemed to have gotten worse with iOS15 or maybe with my new iPhone 13 Mini.
Especially with quoting posts.
It is frustrating, and I much rather jump on one of my Macs for a reply than mess with it on the iPhone.
Yeah, me too!
Just because I think the ATV has been a failure in some ways doesn't mean I hate it or think it is not a good product. I love my ATV, and it is one of my most used electronic devices.
I am a long time ATV user, and probably will be for a long time unless Apple discontinues it.
This is probably why I am so critical of it, because I am disappointed in the direction Apple is taking one of my favorite devices, and disappointed that because of Apple, the ATV is not being utilized to its full potential.
I often get accused of hating Apple or Apple devices when I give what I think is constructive criticism (it has happened multiple times by the OP in this thread and other threads of his), but I sometimes get accuse of being an Apple apologist or Apple fanboy as well. Both happen at least once in the same thread before, actually I think it was an ATV thread a few years back.