Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Will the Haswell rMBP be announced in September with a dGPU option?


  • Total voters
    407
  • Poll closed .
yes they can, those workstations gpus are just consumer models with ECC buffered ram in the case of nvidia, amd is still completely the same

last year the K2000 would've fit exactly right in the budget since its a 660m with DDR3 ecc buffered ram

there was also the fire pros that came exactly with the elite book and the precision 15 that would have fit perfectly the tdp that apple uses

55W K2100M + a 47W Quad-Core Iris Pro would not work together well in terms of battery life. That's over 100W TDP in the MBP's small chassis and cooling system. If it were a bigger laptop with more surface area, then it could be plausible.

The problem has never been and should never be getting the heat out of the chassis - it's getting the heat out of the chips.
 
55W K2100M + a 47W Quad-Core Iris Pro would not work together well in terms of battery life. That's over 100W TDP in the MBP's small chassis and cooling system. If it were a bigger laptop with more surface area, then it could be plausible.

The problem has never been and should never be getting the heat out of the chassis - it's getting the heat out of the chips.

They could watercool it. A tiny rad and res would probably fit..
 
anandtech has posted tests with two flavors of Iris Pro.

A 47W and a 55W. The 55W is within ~10% of a 650M.

Since we 'know' Apple is getting 'binned' parts from Intel, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 60W Iris Pro which would put it equal to a 650M in gaming/general use and ~+70% in OpenGL/Compute apps.

A rMBP with a 3840QM + 650M is ~90W TDP.

A binned 4860HQ would be ~65W TDP.

Increased battery life, increased OpenCL benchmarks, status quo gaming.
 
Increased battery life, increased OpenCL benchmarks, status quo gaming.

Pretty sure this has been discussed heavily - Iris Pro doesn't increase battery life in and of itself.

Increased battery life, increased OpenCL benchmarks, status quo gaming.

This would still upset some people - they might be ok without the bleeding edge mobile GPU, but not something that's on par with 1.5 year tech.
 
Pretty sure this has been discussed heavily - Iris Pro doesn't increase battery life in and of itself.

No, but a cut in TDW absolutely increases battery life. Do you need a physics primer?

Not to mention that ditching the MB space a dGPU requires allows you to put in a bigger battery in the same space.

This would still upset some people - they might be ok without the bleeding edge mobile GPU, but not something that's on par with 1.5 year tech.

People who are interested in bleeding edge gaming don't buy MacBook Pro's.

Look at Origin or Alienware.

Help yourself to a 780M in a 9lb 'laptop'.
 
No, but a cut in TDW absolutely increases battery life. Do you need a physics primer?

Not to mention that ditching the MB space a dGPU requires allows you to put in a bigger battery in the same space.



People who are interested in bleeding edge gaming don't buy MacBook Pro's.

Look at Origin or Alienware.

Help yourself to a 780M in a 9lb 'laptop'.

Quick to insult I see. I didn't realize that you're a genius, and that I said anything about bleeding-edge gamers buying Macbook Pros, and that I must be in desperate need of a physics primer. ;)
 
Why cant we have this? (15inch)

Base - 4700MQ (2.4GHz, 3.2GHz) - HD4600 - dGPU
Middle - 4800MQ (2.7GHz, 3.5GHz) - HD4600 - dGPU
High - 4900MQ (2.8GHz, 3.6GHz) - HD4600 - dGPU
 
Quick to insult I see. I didn't realize that you're a genius, and that I said anything about bleeding-edge gamers buying Macbook Pros, and that I must be in desperate need of a physics primer. ;)

Oops...since you said no increase in battery life and bleeding edge in the same post I assumed you were interested in fact, not hyperbole.

Perhaps you are living somewhere where lower TDP with the same battery doesn't equal longer runtime or MBP's have ever offered the fastest mobile GPU's.

For the record, I love gaming. I have a custom built rig at home, but use a i7 13" MBP on the road. I'm not so patiently waiting for the Haswell refresh and I wish it would have a dGPU, but I expect it will be Iris Pro across the line (13"/15").
 
Oops...since you said no increase in battery life and bleeding edge in the same post I assumed you were interested in fact, not hyperbole.

Perhaps you are living somewhere where lower TDP with the same battery doesn't equal longer runtime or MBP's have ever offered the fastest mobile GPU's.

For the record, I love gaming. I have a custom built rig at home, but use a i7 13" MBP on the road. I'm not so patiently waiting for the Haswell refresh and I wish it would have a dGPU, but I expect it will be Iris Pro across the line (13"/15").

::sigh::

Anyway, I'm hoping the same thing, but preparing for just the 5200
 
but I expect it will be Iris Pro across the line (13"/15").

5100 Iris is on the 13", 5200 Iris Pro will not come to the 13" unless Apple finally uses quads in 13", but considering their TDP, highly unlikely and close to impossible.

You'll only see the 5200 Iris Pro on the 15".
 
55W K2100M + a 47W Quad-Core Iris Pro would not work together well in terms of battery life. That's over 100W TDP in the MBP's small chassis and cooling system. If it were a bigger laptop with more surface area, then it could be plausible.

The problem has never been and should never be getting the heat out of the chassis - it's getting the heat out of the chips.
the problem is both, since the dissipation depends on the air, it needs both

anyway the k2100 is based on the gk106, which is just twice as powerful as the old 650m, thats why so many people want the 760m/765m or me the only guy that wants the 8870m, which is about the same performance

but apparently dell is going to shove that k2100m on the m3800, that is their new thin and light workstation, I don't know the weight of this thing though

the Z series also got thinner and lighter, its still heavier than the rmbp
 
the problem is both, since the dissipation depends on the air, it needs both

anyway the k2100 is based on the gk106, which is just twice as powerful as the old 650m, thats why so many people want the 760m/765m or me the only guy that wants the 8870m, which is about the same performance

but apparently dell is going to shove that k2100m on the m3800, that is their new thin and light workstation, I don't know the weight of this thing though

the Z series also got thinner and lighter, its still heavier than the rmbp
I just don't see Apple wanting to break a set TDP.

the 750M with 2GB is reportedly $100. On top of an expensive 5200 Iris Pro chip. It would drive costs up on the rMBP.
 
anandtech has posted tests with two flavors of Iris Pro.

A 47W and a 55W. The 55W is within ~10% of a 650M.

Since we 'know' Apple is getting 'binned' parts from Intel, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 60W Iris Pro which would put it equal to a 650M in gaming/general use and ~+70% in OpenGL/Compute apps.

A rMBP with a 3840QM + 650M is ~90W TDP.

A binned 4860HQ would be ~65W TDP.

Increased battery life, increased OpenCL benchmarks, status quo gaming.

For maximum power consumption yes, for gaming power consumption, no. (Not like apple cares about stressing the CPU and GPU to the max anyway, stress a rmbp with furmark and prime/IBT and watch the battery be depleted, turbo disappear as the machine tries to pull more power than the 85 watt adapter can provide).

TDP!= Power consumption. Generally iris uses when gaming the maximum TDP it can (for iris generally tdp = power consumption while gaming). This can be seen in the AT Iris Pro review where increasing the cTDP of the CPU resulted in fps gains (because boost was limited).

D3dauer.png

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Schenker-S413-Clevo-W740SU-Notebook.98313.0.html

Package power use is ~47 watts.

A CPU + DGPU does not use TDP(CPU) + TDP(GPU). On my 3630qm + 660m notebook I measure approximately 83 watts under tomb raider for the system, before the power brick. The CPU + 660m are using significantly less than 45w + 45w= 90w.

That ignores the fact that iris generally has lower clocks than non iris. The 37 watt 4702mq runs at 2.2/3.2 ghz while the 4750hq runs at 2.0/3.2 ghz. 10 watts saved right there.

Increased Battery life? Not really, the rmbp rarely uses the dgpu and any reason why it should during basic use is due to drivers. Iris includes edram which will consume a couple watts taking away any battery life gains.


No, but a cut in TDP absolutely increases battery life. Do you need a physics primer?

Not to mention that ditching the MB space a dGPU requires allows you to put in a bigger battery in the same space.

TDP= Cooling requirement and hence (implied) MAX power usage, NOT power usage under low loads. There is a general correlation but in this age of power gating its not for certain. With optimus you can pretty much add a dgpu and not affect battery life at all provided the gpu is inactive.

US air regulations require that the batteries of mobile devices not be larger than 100 watts (two batteries together is okay). The 15" rmbp is already at a 95 watt battery.
 
I just don't see Apple wanting to break a set TDP.

the 750M with 2GB is reportedly $100. On top of an expensive 5200 Iris Pro chip. It would drive costs up on the rMBP.

there is no breaking of a set tdp the only break would be to go for the 5200 only.

the 5200 is more expensive, but its a clear cut design that apple has been wanting for a long time from intel, they will use it.

I still don't see a rmbp with only the igpu, there will probably be a model with only that, but I don't think there won't be a model without a dgpu.

in terms of costs, no one knows the cost of a dgpu, really no one knows except oems. that guess from anandtech and other educated guesses are only that, guesses.

gpu for mobile are more expensive, given that they are higher binned, with lower volume and aren't distributed as widely as desktop ones among several manufacturers.

aside that their applications are custom unless you are talking about mxm, which on the other hand is filled with even higher binned and much more expensive gpus, clear example is the price of the 780m which is around 900 right now.

for example I can sell a lot of 650 on desktop, its the same damn core of the 640m LE/640m/645m/650m/660m/k2000m/730m/740m/745m/750m, however the lets go for how many use the 640m LE, I only know 2 notebooks that use it, thats it.

the 750m I only know of 2 that use it, and in different configurations, one is DDR3 which means the core is higher binned, and the other is GDDR5.

the 760m there is only 1 notebook.

765m there are several, however in different configurations as well

the most widely used model is the 650m that was used in a lot of notebooks last year, I think there are at least 10 models with, then we need to break down on how many one sell of those, which for a model is around 100k-300k units, that means that some that doesn't even have the dgpu, for example the HP dv6t did have one that had the 630m (if Im not mistaken it was that gpu). Then we also have a lot of mix and matches there with DDR3 and GDDR5 models. Aside that those notebooks were always nearing the 1k area, so that means that they may not sell the average expected...

in the end the cost to produce a dgpu is known only to some, the cost for the oem is known only by the oem and some others

that is also valid for each and every component there, apple uses just a handful of cpus for their line up, you will pay a bit more than the average oem because you don't sell the garbage of the i3 and lower, since they are that lower binned cpus that can't be i5 or i7 dual cores, however due to the volume that they buy those things and the contract to move to intel one can't speculate how much they actually pay for each cpu or gpu or HDD or whatever

With all that said one must remember that each and every product that apple makes is bound to have a high margin, they aint in the business to dispute price, they are in the business to sell the desire of the product and to try to satisfy the niche that buys those products

So no I don't believe that a 750m costs only 100, the price for apple is going to be different from hp, or for clevo
 
there is no breaking of a set tdp the only break would be to go for the 5200 only.

the 5200 is more expensive, but its a clear cut design that apple has been wanting for a long time from intel, they will use it.

I still don't see a rmbp with only the igpu, there will probably be a model with only that, but I don't think there won't be a model without a dgpu.

in terms of costs, no one knows the cost of a dgpu, really no one knows except oems. that guess from anandtech and other educated guesses are only that, guesses.

gpu for mobile are more expensive, given that they are higher binned, with lower volume and aren't distributed as widely as desktop ones among several manufacturers.

aside that their applications are custom unless you are talking about mxm, which on the other hand is filled with even higher binned and much more expensive gpus, clear example is the price of the 780m which is around 900 right now.

for example I can sell a lot of 650 on desktop, its the same damn core of the 640m LE/640m/645m/650m/660m/k2000m/730m/740m/745m/750m, however the lets go for how many use the 640m LE, I only know 2 notebooks that use it, thats it.

the 750m I only know of 2 that use it, and in different configurations, one is DDR3 which means the core is higher binned, and the other is GDDR5.

the 760m there is only 1 notebook.

765m there are several, however in different configurations as well

the most widely used model is the 650m that was used in a lot of notebooks last year, I think there are at least 10 models with, then we need to break down on how many one sell of those, which for a model is around 100k-300k units, that means that some that doesn't even have the dgpu, for example the HP dv6t did have one that had the 630m (if Im not mistaken it was that gpu). Then we also have a lot of mix and matches there with DDR3 and GDDR5 models. Aside that those notebooks were always nearing the 1k area, so that means that they may not sell the average expected...

in the end the cost to produce a dgpu is known only to some, the cost for the oem is known only by the oem and some others

that is also valid for each and every component there, apple uses just a handful of cpus for their line up, you will pay a bit more than the average oem because you don't sell the garbage of the i3 and lower, since they are that lower binned cpus that can't be i5 or i7 dual cores, however due to the volume that they buy those things and the contract to move to intel one can't speculate how much they actually pay for each cpu or gpu or HDD or whatever

With all that said one must remember that each and every product that apple makes is bound to have a high margin, they aint in the business to dispute price, they are in the business to sell the desire of the product and to try to satisfy the niche that buys those products

So no I don't believe that a 750m costs only 100, the price for apple is going to be different from hp, or for clevo
A really thought out post. I enjoyed reading this.

No sarcasm.
 
wonder if apple makes another 'smart decision' to piss off the core of their prosumer buyers?

I am waiting for the 13" rMBP to replace an air - hope to god apple makes this a decent upgrade internally, not simply externally!

Wait you're hoping Apple won't piss off prosumers but you're ok with a dual-core machine? :confused: ;)
 
I still don't see a rmbp with only the igpu, there will probably be a model with only that, but I don't think there won't be a model without a dgpu.

Doesn't that mean the dGPU version would have to have a weaker CPU than the Iris pro version?

If so, isn't that unlikely then?
 
Doesn't that mean the dGPU version would have to have a weaker CPU than the Iris pro version?

If so, isn't that unlikely then?

A dGPU model would probably have a higher clock Haswell to make up for it, maybe an MQ, I'd think. It would also look "better" on paper, for those who chase nothing more than numbers.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.