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Hey Apple...Adobe has learned its lesson! We want Flash
- Thread starter TapHappy
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Once again you ignore the point and make crap up. But whatever fits your argument.
Did you just admit to having an iPhone? Or were you just pretending that you did?
And why do you keep comparing a year old iPad to a demo of an unreleased Playbook?
Actually, you need to consider that not everyone shares your priorities. You are coming at this from ease of development. Some of us don't care how easy it is for you to develop across multiple platforms.
I choose to use a Mac, because I prefer the quality and consistency of native Mac apps. The cross platform, non-native UI are a negative for me.
And, of course, you know Macs support Flash. But I suppose that fact would get in the way of your attempt to be clever.
The Register? Seriously? And at least they have the integrity to point out that it's likely a bug and not a conspiracy. This may be the most disingenuous thing that you've posted so far.
Actually, this is March 15, 2011, and the iPad 2 has been released. And yet you're still trying to compare the unreleased Playbook to the previous generation iPad.
And yet, you don't see the irony in that you are the one arguing for taking away choice.
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iPhone 2, 3, 4 and MacBook Pro 17', that's all I use for both work and personal beside some servers in the cloud. I do not hate Apple, I just despite its conduct over the past 2 years, that's all.
I did not in this case, I was referring to the part of the video that shows adidas.com on PlayBook with Flash and on iPad with HTML. I just find insulting that on a $600 I get a nasty 1990s table base dump of the content while everyone get a pretty cool Flash website. You might not like it, but when it gets to e-commerce and entertainment it's kind of hard to beat Flash, whoever believes otherwise might not be aware of what Flash is today.
That is your choice but it does not mean Apple consumers have to share that opinion with you. Once again, it is going to become clear this year, I believe Apple's market share on mobile is dropping too low to be a serious obstacle to 10.2, Flex and AIR.
You're right, I had mobile in mind and I should have said "everything iOS" rather than Apple.
That is where we disagree, you believe Apple's conduct in regard to Flash is innocent and fair, I believe it is a mega scam. I provided enough compelling information for each of us to make its own mind.
I do not take away any choice, I believe Flash should be optional and easy to turn on and off, it would not affect you or any Flash hater and it will give everyone else a choice. What choice do I take away? The one to hate Flash and amputate everyone's browsing experience?
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Just a bit of hypocrisy there. You've been arguing about the importance of Flash to mobile browsing, but you don't think it's an important enough feature to change your actually purchase.
That's exactly the rational that Apple counted on in not including Flash. Sounds like they were right.
Maybe you should complain to the developer of the website, since they choose what content to provide.
Once again, Apple's market share is growing, not dropping.
What about Apple's choice to not include plugins? What about my choice to access content without the Flash Player?
Under the current situation, people that want to access Flash have a choice. Buy a device that supports Flash.
Under your proposal, people that don't want to use Flash have less choice, because less content would be available under open standards.
There was no solid alternative to iPhone, be with Flash or not, until recently. I did not buy iPad and I won't buy an iPhone anymore now that we have a choice. I won't give up my MacBook but will definitely walk away from iOS.
I do not think so, based on my information revenues are up but market share is shrinking.
Let's see how much that is going to cost Apple starting this year.
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I'm glad they don't include flash. Flash is a giant bag of hurt. The only way to get developers to move on is to hold the line. If they give in, then it'll make the next line harder to hold too.
Considering that the Xoom & Galaxy tablets are sitting on the shelf unsold, while the iPad2 is sold out or in limited supply; I think the consumers have spoken on this subject, they don't care about Flash. If it was REALLY that important to the end consumer they would not be buying the iPad.
Don't bother saying that only Apple Fanboys are buying the iPad2, they aren't. And the majority of iPad2's are being sold to first time buyers, not people replacing the iPad1. One Source of the Info, there are many more
Don't bother saying that only Apple Fanboys are buying the iPad2, they aren't. And the majority of iPad2's are being sold to first time buyers, not people replacing the iPad1. One Source of the Info, there are many more
While you're entirely correct, you're falling pray to Flexengineer's rhetoric and fallacious argumentation. It wouldn't matter if the iPad had 99.9% of the marketshare, Flex would just vaguely retort "we'll see when 2012 comes around", or "we'll see what happens when the regulators get involved".
Flexengineer doesn't actually have a single valid argument - the only reason he's managed to drag this thread on for so long is because he counters logical, well considered points with rhetorical questions and innumerable logical fallacies - and unfortunately, the rest of us continue to take the bait.
Does anybody really think someone named 'flexengineer' wouldn't have an irrational attachment to flash? It's like a tobacco exec telling you there's nothing wrong with cigarettes.
Flash will continue to fade, and eventually be removed from the development process of the majority of these large entities that are currently saddled with it now.
Flash will continue to fade, and eventually be removed from the development process of the majority of these large entities that are currently saddled with it now.
There are many alternatives, applications, web apps and just in general HTML5. Just because people don't know how to use it to re-create the same functions doesn't mean the device is failing because of some bogged down buggy piece of software.
Adobe will never bring Flash to the iPhone, let this horse die.
Precisely, and based on a lot of the things said on these forums. The true fanboys want better hardware, more storage and other things before they'll upgrade.
I do not own one, but hope to soon. I'd rather not have Flash on my device constantly crashing my browser. Also Flash requires mouse capture for a lot of things which the iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch do not have.
If not having Flash were that big of a deal, more people would complain about it and eventually Apple MIGHT give in.
So, Apple made the same choice as you, but their choice is a "mega scam" and yours is just rational and realistic. Good consistency there.
That's not true. Maybe you should look at the market share information that you posted yourself.
Here you go:
I thought we were starting last summer?
If Apple shows growth this year, are we going to start next year?
I gave up on him around page 10 or so of this thread, when backed into a corner and proven wrong, he'll just change his story and try to change the subject. No one here should take him seriously anymore.
The truth is, if flash was really important to people, they wouldn't be buying the iPad(1 or 2). Obviously, most people don't care about it, and with more people buying devices like the iPads, the more developers will have to cater to them to keep people coming to their sites.
I thought we were starting last summer?
Come on, just make it easy, we'll start whenever Apple finally levels out, THEN he'll prove it to you. (whenever that may be)
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Considering Stanza (an iOS browser) handles pretty much everything flash that most *smaller than laptop* devices do, I would guess that the demands aren't as strong. As long as most of their sites can do flash video through it.
Flash games are a different matter as the vast majority of them are inoperable without being a laptop or a computer. That is, if they aren't already made into Appstore Apps already.
Flash games are a different matter as the vast majority of them are inoperable without being a laptop or a computer. That is, if they aren't already made into Appstore Apps already.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
That's 2009 / 2010, when Apple had 90% applications market share and ws virtually the only smartphone and tablet on the shelves of rthe whole time. You know very well that Flash made its first steps on mobile with 10.1 released last summer, explain to me how you can define the impact and disruption created by Flash Platform by looking at data from 2009/2010?
I thought we were starting last summer?
I have been consistent:
2009 Adobe secures close alliance with 9 of world's top 10 mobile device manufacturer.
2010 Adobe releases the first Flash Player for mobile (10.1).
2010 Adobe released major performance optimization and full implementation of hardware acceleration (10.2) for video but also graphics, games and 3D.
2011 Showdown.
That is way outdated, but you can keep spreading Steve's gospel if you want.
iPad popular on Twitter, biggest complaint is no Flash:
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/02/02/lack-of-flash-biggest-ipad-complaint-at-least-on-twitter
The most disliked thing about the iPad: a lack of Flash support:
http://www.macnews.com/content/most-disliked-thing-about-ipad-lack-flash-support
iPad owners like screen, dislike lack of Flash:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20005517-1.html
Apple's iPad and the Flash Clash:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/188185/apples_ipad_and_the_flash_clash.html
Could you develop and explain to us what are those efficient technology and why you consider them more efficient than Flex and AIR?
You're right, we are (software developers) all stupid idiots who do not see how fantastic HTML and Javascript is, nor do we know how to use it. Let me help you (if you challenge me please come with something to back it up): it is impossible to do with Javascript most of what is being done with Flash Platform today. When it is possible, it will coat 5x more time and money to develop that if you built it with Flash. Not just more expensive, you also end up with a nasty code base. Building apps with Javascript is the same as building houses with plastic bags and newspaper, you can but should you? Let's not even talk about cross browser compatibility nightmare.
Do you really think someone named Steve Jobs wouldn't have an irrational attachment to Apple? Yet, fanboys will say "amen" to everything coming out of his mouth.
The exact opposite is happening.
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That just doesn't make any sense...
and this is wrong as well.
But I think I just realized why this thread is so long.
Not that hard. Apple decided to make a smartphone without Flash. You decided to buy a smartphone without Flash. Why is their choice a "mega scam" and your choice rational and realistic?
What other numbers are there!? You said "market share is shrinking." Not will be shrinking in the future. All numbers released to data have shown market share growth. You are making things up. Again.
You also said the war is over. I'm sure that's consistent somehow.
How is it outdated when you consider legacy Flash apps? Has Adobe magically found a way to differentiate between hovering and scrolling?
Twitter trends. The new scientific polling! Wait. No.
You really like reposting the old articles. Like last time, as many people dislike the lack of Flash as dislike smudges on the screen. I don't think these numbers show what you think they show.
Oh, Flexengineer. I really hope your employers and/or clients don't find this thread. You've painted yourself quite insane.
To be quite honest, I don't understand why he was ever taken out of "timeout". He has never posted anything other than in this thread and another thread where he made a poll about iPad users and Flash. This is the definition of trolling behaviour.
I really hope your employers and/or clients don't find this thread. You've painted yourself quite insane.To be quite honest, I don't understand why he was ever taken out of "timeout". He has never posted anything other than in this thread and another thread where he made a poll about iPad users and Flash. This is the definition of trolling behaviour.
Interesting how you decide I make things up before I can even answer. The trend started last year but is really going to reach its critical mass this year.
Android marketshare growing, iPhone shrinking, says Quantcast:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/15692/android_marketshare_growing_iphone_shrinking_says_quantcast
Apples Movie Business Faces Shrinking-Pie Problem:
http://www.investorplace.com/30453/apples-movie-business-faces-shrinking-pie-problem
Android pips BlackBerry OS for the lead in US subscriber charts:
http://www.gsmarena.com/android_pip...e_lead_in_us_subscriber_charts_-news-2399.php
Android Market Share Grows as iPhone Shrinks:
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/android_market_share_grows_iphone_shrinks
As Android Tablets Arrives, iPads Marketshare Shrinks From 95% To 77%:
http://www.cultofmac.com/as-android-tablets-arrives-ipads-marketshare-shrinks-from-95-to-77/79755
What about the billion of HTML and CSS legacy websites, are you going to block them from Safari too?
HTML and CSS provides for graceful degradation. There is no such thing as a "legacy" website when it is coded with web standards, because its degradation does not inhibit its functionality. But you already knew that.
HTML and CSS provides for graceful degradation. There is no such thing as a "legacy" website when it is coded with web standards, because its degradation does not inhibit its functionality. But you already knew that.
Interesting point, can you develop? What makes dealing with poorly developed Flash legacy websites any different than dealing with old, inconsistent, failing HTML websites? What about the limitation and constraint caused by backward compatibility and depreciation? Sounds legacy to me, but I want to hear your full thought.