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The real question is why do you come to an Apple fan site(basically) just to bash them at every turn? Seems like you need better things to do with your time.

It'd be like me going to an Android or PC forum just to bash the opposition.
 
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The real question is why do you come to an Apple fan site(basically) just to bash them at every turn?

The real question could also be why people on an Apple fan site feel the need to start a thread asking Apple to let it go with Flash? Or why 1 out of 3 people who voted on another thread I started on this site did so in favor of Flash on iPad? If nobody would have started the conversation I would not have received a notification for it (like for any article, blog or conversation about Apple vs. Adobe conflict), I would not be here and nobody around would be standing up for Flash. That's what Apple wants, it helps the lies and I think it's called 'divide and rule' but it's not gonna happen. It was close, but it's not gonna happen no matter how big Apple is, that should tell you something about reality outside of Apple's phantasmagoric bubble.
 
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The real question is why do you come to an Apple fan site(basically) just to bash them at every turn? Seems like you need better things to do with your time.

It'd be like me going to an Android or PC forum just to bash the opposition. Get a hobby, or go touch yourself.

This isn't an Apple fan site, it's an apple users site, I've found flex's POV interesting even if you find it challenging to your unbiased loyalties.
 
First of all you are putting words in my mouth and I would really appreciate if we could avoid that because it's irritating. Secondly, I do not believe it is that easy because what you consider "short term convince" is called innovation and that means it is not short term at all, Flash has always been and will always be more advanced than HTML, it's not like HTML is catching up! For as long as Flash will allow developers to do today what HTML will allow to do in 5 years (if ever at all) this war will be worthless and would not even exist if it was not Apple.

If web developers used open standards for everything that HTML5 and related standards are actually good for, and Flash for the other stuff, the web would be a better place. There is no need for open standards to "catch up" with Flash. They don't need to replace Flash completely (and they won't anytime soon.) They just need to evolve to take over more and more common uses cases to decrease the reliance of proprietary technologies.

Thirdly, Flash/Flex is way, way.... way way way more open and compatible than anything Apple!

We've already been through this. Apple has created and/or supports hundreds of open source projects including Webkit. Stop spreading lies.

However, the problem has been addressed and the feedback for Flash Player 10.2 across computers and mobiles is overwhelming, those are facts.

No, those are opinions. Pretty much by definition.

Going back to my previous answer above, the option would be offered if the real motives were performance but they are not, performance and security issues have been misused as weapons against Adobe over Flash.

Except you know that performance and security are not the only reasons that Apple chose not to support Flash on iOS. But you'll continue the FUD.

except Apple which in the meantime keeps spreading the lies and propaganda through their PR and fans armada

Again with the unsupported accusations. Apple PR hasn't said anything about Flash since the period of time around "Thoughts on Flash."

And I've asked a number of times for anyone to come up with a quote from Apple that taken in context can be proven to be a lie. Hasn't happened yet.

And most of the lies in this thread have come from the pro-Flash side.

just to maintain the status quo.

Umm... Flash is the status quo.
 
If web developers used open standards for everything that HTML5 and related standards are actually good for, and Flash for the other stuff, the web would be a better place.

That is your ideology and that is not what the people were told, they were told Flash is **** on mobile, is outdated and not needed anymore. Those are lies, Flash was not even on mobile how can it sucks? Flash is doing in 2011 stuff other technology might, maybe, make possible in years from now so it's not outdated at all, it is actually always ahead of time. As far as being needed it is really not up to Apple to define that, let developers and project owners make up their mind. Why Apple did not do what everyone's did which is to address the problems (do I need to post the CEOs video and the 10.2 demos?). Why did Apple systematically create obstacle for Adobe regarding improving Flash for Mac? If the people were told what you just said above, most of them would answer "screw you, your war, your *****, my phone!".

We've already been through this. Apple has created and/or supports hundreds of open source projects including Webkit. Stop spreading lies.

Dude, are you gonna stop to call me a liar lover and over! I said Adobe is more open than Apple and it is true, it does not mean Apple is not open here and there, it means Apple is not open as much as Adobe Flash Platform is. When Apple made that point, Adobe immediately answered with the facts and that was the end of it, Apple started to change topic and stopped real quick the 'open' thing. Keep in mid that I have been getting notification for every single article, forums discussion or blog post mentioning Adobe and Apple together since early 1999, have you? If not, how can you say I lie about the PR strategy then? Have you seen the wave of lies spreading in blogs all the same day? It takes PR power to achieve that.

Adobe does not refrain people from doing what they want in the browser, they do not require business to use Apple's proprietary technology or system to conduct business in applications, Adobe does not racket 30% from all revenue made on the phone (which for the most part should be made in the browser with 0% commission). Adobe does not tell us what tool we should to use, anyone can compete with any of the Flash Platform products, most of them are either open source or open enough to allow competitive products such as Wowza or Red5, they only control the player to refrain anyone from messing with it and that is what we developers want. So from you or Apple to say Adobe is not open enough is beyond ignorance, or a lie. Funny you call me a liar.

Again with the unsupported accusations. Apple PR hasn't said anything about Flash since the period of time around "Thoughts on Flash."

No, Apple stopped when the European Union and the FTC started a joint investigation after Apple shown bad faith by trying to ban Adobe's development product from generating native iOS app. That was the starting point for the wake up, developers and businesses ended up seeing through Apple's game and started thinking "wait a minute", it cut short Apple's ability to carry on its mission and Google joining forces with Adobe pretty much cut it short too, Apple does not make the cut anymore.

Umm... Flash is the status quo.

I was making a reference to what happened with the Roman empire for instance, once it could not get any bigger the cost of just maintaining the status quo of the empire (maintaining the lies, the army, the propaganda) without being able to increase power and wealth (everything is already taken over), brought the empire to its knee.
 
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That is your ideology and that is not what the people were told, they were told Flash is **** on mobile, is outdated and not needed anymore. Those are lies, if the people were told what you just said above, most of them would they "screw you, your was, not hours".

Who told the people that?

Dude, are you gonna stop to call me a liar lover and over, you are making a full of yourself! People get it, I am getting enough private messages and there are enough people in this thread who want to know the truth so stop calling me a liar, you're talking to yourself. Adobe does not refrain people from doing what they want in the browser, they do not require business to use Apple's proprietary technology and give to Apple a 30% commission for t. Apple does not tell us what tool we need to use, anyone can compete with any of Adobe's product, they only control the player to refrain anyone from messing with it and that is what we developers want.

The statement you made was a lie. It was false. It was not true. I provided an example to prove it. A second time.

No, Apple stopped when the European Union and the FTC started a joint investigation after Apple shown bad faith by trying to ban Adobe's development product from generating native iOS app. That was the starting point for the wake up, developers and business ended up seeing through Apple's game and started thinking "wait a minute", it cut short Apple's ability to carry on its mission and Google joining forces with Adobe pretty much cut it short too, Apple does not make the cut anymore.

That is your opinion of what happened. It is not a fact.
 
Can't everyone just make a pact to stop posting in this thread? A single person can only bump a thread so much...
 
Who told the people that?

Apple is big, big legal team, big liability, smart people, words are chosen very carefully but truth is nothing can make Steve Jobs keep his mouth shut, so this is one example among many, Steve Jobs on Adobe during a Town Hall meeting:

"They are lazy. They have all this potential to do interesting things, but they just refuse to do it. They don't do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it's because of Flash. No one will be using Flash. The world is moving to HTML5."

Those are lies, they have no evidence that Adobe has ever been lazy, they provided no evidence that they themselves made every effort to improve Flash on Mac hand in hand with Adobe, they provided no evidence that Mac OS is not responsible for the crashes. There are actual evidences of the opposite, like the fact that Apple refused to provide Adobe with the pre release of MacBook AIR for optimization. Turns out, Adobe demoed Flash on the newest MacBook AIR playing full screen, full frame HD with 10% CPU 2 weeks after its public release anyway, take that Apple. Lazy huh? Now, add graphics and vector on top of it... oooohhh CPU does not even move! Usually that use case would drive the CPU freaking red. All that applies to PC, Mac, Linux and any Flash enabled phone or tablets (there will be 50 Flash enabled tablets released this year) and connected home devices, on all browsers with no discrepancy. Lazy huh?

Also, it is a lie to say "no one will be using Flash", there are between 10 and 30x more Flash developers than iOS developers, that is propaganda in an attempt to drive developers away from the Flash Platform as a whole by breaking its ability to develop for all platform. Apple tried to force developers on their proprietary system (even forcing them to buy a Mac) to develop for iOS and iOS only! Open huh? That was shown by the TOS they had to reverse under pressure of regulators.

Keep talking, people are not stupid and even if they were, developers and businesses aren't.
 
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Apple is big, big legal team, big liability, smart people, words are chosen very carefully but truth is nothing can make Steve Jobs keep his mouth shut, so this is one example among many, Steve Jobs on Adobe during a Town Hall meeting:

"They are lazy. They have all this potential to do interesting things, but they just refuse to do it. They don't do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it's because of Flash. No one will be using Flash. The world is moving to HTML5."

Those are lies, they have no evidence that Adobe has ever been lazy, they provided no evidence that they themselves made every effort to improve Flash on Mac hand in hand with Adobe, they provided no evidence that Mac OS is not responsible for the crashes. There are actual evidences of the opposite, like the fact that Apple refused to provide Adobe with the pre release of MacBook AIR for optimization. Turns out, Adobe demoed Flash on MacBook AIR playing full screen, full frame HD with 10% CPU 2 weeks after its public release anyway, take that Apple. Lazy huh? Now, add graphics and vector on top of it... oooohhh CPU does not even move! Usually that use case would drive the CPU freaking red. Lazy huh?

Also, it is a lie to say "no one will be using Flash", that is propaganda in an attempt to drive developers away from the Flash Platform as a whole by breaking its ability to develop for all platform. Apple tried to force developers on their proprietary system (even forcing them to buy a Mac) as shown by the TOS they had to reverse under pressure of regulators.

Keep talking, people are not stupid and even if they were, developers and businesses aren't.

You seem to not be able to tell the difference between a lie and an opinion that you disagree with. This quote was from a private motivational speech to Apple employees. It was not meant to be public. It's ridiculous that you would site it as evidence of Apple propaganda. And disingenuous that you would expect them to site their sources in such a forum.

Adobe took 4+ years to produce a version of Flash for mobile that you, yourself, consider worth using. I would call that a pretty poor effort myself.

And why in the world would Adobe be entitled to a pre-release version of the MacBook Air? Why would they even need one? Do they optimize for every laptop that comes on the market?
 
And why in the world would Adobe be entitled to a pre-release version of the MacBook Air? Why would they even need one? Do they optimize for every laptop that comes on the market?

Adobe started the "certified devices" for Flash on mobile and took the problem in their own hands, that's probably why XOOM was released without it for 2 weeks, Adobe will not certify if it does not rock on both end (device and the player).

http://www.adobe.com/flashplatform/certified_devices/

I am not sure whether they will extend that to laptops though but we will know soon, the player is ready now, and the devices are about to flow, they are taking this very seriously and we are all determined to make Apple swallow its dust, hopefully the certified devices will be a success and extended to computers, that way no one will be able to cry anymore, it will be work with Adobe and get certified or play on your own. Now all Apple has left to fight with is the fact that Adobe was late, that is not going to make a different in the marketplace this year. Adobe is making sure Flash becomes the best thing on mobile and that is what Apple is afraid of (and it should, especially when standing alone on the other side of the fence).
 
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Those SJ's comments predate the improvements that Adobe made in OSX Flash player.
 
For me to love Flash
Adobe must make a program that
uses less memory
runs smoother
Doesn't have a program looking for an update every 5 seconds
smaller install

and the drum roll..........

Doesn't hang half the time.:eek:

I do not use Adobe anything except for flash on the web site who must use it.
 
i think the title of this thread needs to be changed from WE want flash, to A TINY TINY MINORITY OF US want flash.

i was on a website on my ipad earlier, and it required flash, my first thought was "Damn you pizza hut, using flash", not "damn you ipad, not having flash"

the rest of the web needs to keep up...
Yes like dropping Flash! Adobe couldn't program themselves out of a Virtual wet paper bag! :eek::D
 
What????????????? I can't decide if you are serious or not....:confused:

I've had way more problems with iTunes than Flash. Flash runs exceptionally fast (although years ago it didn't). I would warrant he is serious.

Oh, and by the way, thank you soooo much for posting your mac pro specs! They are so cool and l33t I have a new found respect for you. OMFG soooo cooooool.
 
For me to love Flash Adobe must make a program that uses less memory, runs smoother, doesn't have a program looking for an update every 5 seconds, smaller install.

Your two first wishes come in the form of Flash Player 10.2 now officially released everywhere (all platform, all operating systems including mobile, with the exception of iOS). I do not understand your third wish, I think you are getting confused with other Adobe products, Flash does not require an update every 5 minutes, it's more like a couple of update a year. I do not understand your wish #4 neither because Flash Player is 230 KB, you can't do much smaller so here again I think you are getting confused with other products that have nothing to do with the Flash Player.

and the drum roll.......... Doesn't hang half the time.:eek:

It never was the case except maybe on Mac (even tho I have not had any issue for the past year or two on my Macbook Pro but I've got 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo with 4 gig RAM so I can't tell for other models), it is also unsure who's fault was that and it does not apply to the large majority of Flash Player installs. And in any case those problems have been addressed and Adobe already shown last October the version 10.2 work beautifully even on the new MacBook AIR, the same performance improvements have now been deployed on all platform, being desktops, laptops, smart phones, tablets or IP connected home devices.

I've had way more problems with iTunes than Flash. Flash runs exceptionally fast (although years ago it didn't). I would warrant he is serious.

It's the case for probably 90% of the web population. Apparently Apple worries about Flash being a problem on 10% of computers (Mac) but does not worry about forcing its customers to use iTunes on 90% of computers (PCs) knowing the software run very poorly on PC and is a major annoyance. Question is why? Well, Flash competes with Apple's iTunes and AppStore while iTunes and AppStore bring cash to Apple, it's a no brainer. How they get away with it? PR and CEO charisma, even though truth is they did not get away with it.
 
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It's the case for probably 90% of the web population. Apparently Apple worries about Flash being a problem on 10% of computers (Mac) but does not worry about forcing its customers to use iTunes on 90% of computers (PCs) knowing the software run very poorly on PC and is a major annoyance. Question is why? Well, Flash competes with Apple's iTunes and AppStore while iTunes and AppStore bring cash to Apple, it's a no brainer. How they get away with it? PR and CEO charisma, even though truth is they did not get away with it.

How does flash compete with itunes or the app store?? :confused: If I want to play a flash game or watch youtube on my pc fine, if I want to buy music or apps for my iphone flash can't help me.
 
There are times when the ignore function is a wonderful thing. It remains to be seen if apple decides to add flash, and I, personally, would prefer they don't. Anything that can help kill flash ads is good with me.
 
Flash, really? I dont get where you people are going that you use flash so much. I use a windows PC and I rarely ever need flash...unless I really wanna check out the Pizza Hut website so much.

Flash is a novelty that is rarely needed on normal daily websites. Movie websites and food websites seem to be the most flash based.

Apple will likely not allow Flash because they will not want to have to deal with. "Why does this website suck on my iphone, waaahhh it doesnt run good waaah"

I don't blame them, people are idiots and giving them flash is just asking for more trouble. Apple is all about controling their devices content to the extent that it prevents user error as much as possible. They avoid letting you use or do anything that will ruin your experience. Flash will ruin the average users experience the second a stupid banner add crashes their iphone.

Flash also leaves an iphone more vulnerable to potential attacks.
 
Flash, really? I dont get where you people are going that you use flash so much. I use a windows PC and I rarely ever need flash...unless I really wanna check out the Pizza Hut website so much.
Despite defaulting to use Flash, Pizza Hut properly reverts to HTML when required (unless you're in Canada).
 
No thanks
On my MBP the fans start kicking in, the CPU temps go up, and the battery time remaining goes down by a hour or more - so NO@@@ I do NOT want Flash on any of my family's iOS devices.... Besides Flash sucks... crummy, slow, and wierd.....
As a matter of fact I installed this addon for safari on the MBP for one reason - to block Flash (clicktoflash- i dont want flash loading unless i specificaly want it to).. The only place Flash is OK (simply because there is no other option) is Youtube.... and if there was a way to switch to something other the Flash it would be awesome..
Btw this is my first mac - 2 month ago i was windows only - Flash sucked then too.....
 
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