Agreed... new release, new round of "worst ever" laments... as I said above, I am not seeing it...
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High Sierra is the worst OS ever
- Thread starter EnderBeta
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Agreed... new release, new round of "worst ever" laments... as I said above, I am not seeing it...
I have yet to have a conversation with anyone who has used a Macintosh for longer than the nine years that have passed since Snow Leopard who has said anything negative about Snow Leopard period. The same cannot be said about ANY of the releases since. And mind you I have spoken with literally thousands of Mac users on the topic of the Mac operating system.
Geez, nitpick much?
Yes, obviously your mileage may vary. Go poll thousands of Mac users and ask their opinions of the versions of the Mac operating system from the last decade. I'm sure you'll find that 10.7 through 10.12 have REALLY subjective results whereas a VAST MAJORITY (there, happy?) of Mac users who have been Mac users since before 10.7 would say that 10.6 was great. That's the point I'm trying to make.
good thing we have you and your worldwide, scientific polls to keep us on on the 'facts' (and am impressed that you've spoken to "literally thousands of Mac users"...)
Worst "ever" is a big statement. "Ever" is a long time. I actually thought DOS 4 and Windows 2.0 were pretty bad... not to mention the crash test dummies of Windows 95, ME and Vista.
Then there was the Metro laden Windows 8 with a non-existent start menu button... which when it was first released required a ten minute training video just to learn how to properly shut down the machine.
...Windows 8 was the last straw for me and the MS OS that moved me to using Macs with OSX as a base OS for the first time. Looking back in hind sight I have no major regrets and yes I am using HS. I just wish Apple updated the Mac Mini hardware more frequently.
Then there was the Metro laden Windows 8 with a non-existent start menu button... which when it was first released required a ten minute training video just to learn how to properly shut down the machine.
...Windows 8 was the last straw for me and the MS OS that moved me to using Macs with OSX as a base OS for the first time. Looking back in hind sight I have no major regrets and yes I am using HS. I just wish Apple updated the Mac Mini hardware more frequently.
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upset? i thanked you for your fact-based reporting, and was impressed that you know so many mac users....
Which clearly upset you. So, again, I'm sorry I upset you.
Sorry to hear about the incompatibility thing, especially if it's so bad that it makes you leave the Mac. (Which other machine you're considering offers similar inter-device streaming?)
I have to say, it doesn't seem certain you've narrowed the issue to High Sierra and not just iTunes. Occasionally software updates have hindered me temporarily as well – I'm currently experiencing a rather impactful one I couldn't reasonably have foreseen. But on the whole, it certainly seems that High Sierra is the best release ever.
I have to say, it doesn't seem certain you've narrowed the issue to High Sierra and not just iTunes. Occasionally software updates have hindered me temporarily as well – I'm currently experiencing a rather impactful one I couldn't reasonably have foreseen. But on the whole, it certainly seems that High Sierra is the best release ever.
Snow Leopard was a grand release but I sure as heck would not wanna use it knowing the speed of Sierra and High Sierra. I believe that loads of people have been experiencing issues due to upgrading their systems instead of cleanly installing them.
Most I know complained about Sierra which they had upgraded to from El Capitan to which they had upgraded from Yosemite to which they had upgraded from Mavericks and so forth... I never upgrade and I since Yosemite I don't install any developer betas nor do I install the OS until it reaches .3 where I can begin working with it. My 10.12.6 is the most rock solid system I have ever had and fastest too. I use FCPx, PPRO, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, Photoshop, Xcode, Math Software.
As a developer I am "forced" to keep a partition which I don't use to do any serious work of the latest macOS Beta. While Xcode runs nicely there all the other software I use don't. And generally there are lots of artifacts which will in general become ironed out by the .3 release. 10.10, 10.11, 10.12 got their bad reputations in the first two releases which granted were BAD releases. But it appears that Apple has an agenda of reaching a new world standard before 100 years and the only way to do that is to push forward fast and get installs on as many machines as possible. To get the feedback. I hate and love this aspect and I can go with it or fight it. Latter I shall loose. I do also believe that we're in a transition which will get slightly worse before stabilizing but I believe that around 10.17'ish macOS will have reached a new and more stable level. This speed of Apple also ensures that we get to enjoy the most of our hardware. I.e iMac Pro -this Mac is a monster. At full resolution in Premiere Pro I can hit play on CinemaDNG 4.6k RAW footage enter fullscreen and watch without a stutter and the fans wont even kick in. This is serious performance and I get that only on High Sierra. The iMac wont install Sierra (I tried
)Anyway......
If I can take this away from the “worst ever” chitchat and back to the issue (iTunes streaming problems), I should point out that since the last iTunes update my Mac Mini also stops sharing its iTunes library until I restart iTunes.
I am still running Sierra on all my Macs, so I’d say the problem is with iTunes.
EDIT
I need to correct myself here as after some experimentation I have concluded that the problem is not with iTunes. It would seem that when my Mac Mini goes to sleep I lose connectivity to it and I am unable to wake it from my other Mac.
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I think I've had a major issue with an MacOS upgrade once. I think it was Lion. All other times, I barely noticed anything critical changing on me.
I do have two persistent problems though and I keep upgrading in hopes that they go away and usually they get worse on the intial release or two of the next version and get better from there on out, but never go away. I have issues with getting my Mac to sleep and the external monitor often has wake issues too. I've had these two number one issues for over 12 years so I can't blame Tim Cook for it.
Software is complicated. The Apple universe was much smaller and much easier to manage 10 years ago when Steve Jobs was alive. Modern OSes are so impossibly complex now that I doubt there's a single person on the planet that fully understands everything under the hood in either MacOS or Windows. It's amazing how many things plug together to produce the OS that looks simple under the best of conditions... well USED to look simple. Nothing is so simple anymore.
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While I wouldn't rule out that a clean install could fix some issues, I'm not so sure I'd be recommending to everyone that they started the life of every new Mac this way. I don't get why people are so ready to recommend something as painstaking as a clean install all the time.
I almost never do a clean install because of the time involved and rarely have any issues directly related to the upgrade. I'm a developer too so I've got all sorts of funky stuff running in the background and I do have to reinstall some of my libraries, but those aren't OS related. The few issues that I have had were either due to underlying changes that a clean install wouldn't have resolved or were fixed within the first three months of the new OS.
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All of the past few OS upgrades have been exceedingly smooth for me... smooth enough that I need to remind myself not to develop a sense of complacency that leads me to casually hit the upgrade button when the next major release rolls around before considering possible implications.
There will be rough upgrades in the future and isn't that just a fact of life? Maybe next time, I'll be the one venting online about the OS going to pot. I just hope I'll have the presence of mind to remember that just because I'm having problems, it doesn't mean that everyone else is having them too.
Tim isn't solely responsible for the decisions made with macOS or hardware.
This is a problem on your end, not with the OS. Maybe you need to try contacting Apple or reinstall macOS.
And I'm sure Steve is rolling in his grave because of your newfound hatred for Apple. lol
This is a problem on your end, not with the OS. Maybe you need to try contacting Apple or reinstall macOS.
And I'm sure Steve is rolling in his grave because of your newfound hatred for Apple. lol
Snow Leopard? You mean the last OS that was released under Steve Jobs which is literally the only reason why people praise it? The OS that like other before it took about 7 point releases to become stable after issues like Data wipes after logging on to guest accounts, Disk Utility that corrupted some Disk Images (still does), Graphics issues on MacBooks, MobileMe, and if I remember correctly a certain SMB issue? None of which issues that MacRumors the other big news sites talked about because they were so busy drinking the kool-aid?
10.13.4.
They shouldn't release another major update until High Sierra reaches absolutely end road maturity.
It would be better if they approach macOS like Windows 10 and just have an OS that updates continually for the foreseeable future. The new OS yearly thing hasn't worked for years. Just results in incomplete features, crippled drivers, forced upgrades, very obvious bugs that should have been found earlier, angry users.
I don't think he's upset - you have been called out for speaking rubbish. People that disagree with wild statements are often not upset, just wish to add a bit of rigour to a debate.
am sure that apple will read your comment, realize that you're right, and they've been wrong... and they'll amend their OS path to accomodate your idea. after all, this is apple, a company that's always made all it's decisions based on ideas posted on internet forums like this...
Is it true that the 10.3.4 update is mainly about eGPU? The whole Thunderbolt 3 external GPU thing is something I'd love to take advantage of. I've been in love with and enjoyed Thunderbolt speeds since day one!
I'd really like to get back on High Sierra, but damned, why can't it be made stable enough to use iMovie with an external monitor??? Seriously Apple, I don't mind the USB-C-only MacBook Pros and using dongles, but at least make them compatible...
I'd really like to get back on High Sierra, but damned, why can't it be made stable enough to use iMovie with an external monitor??? Seriously Apple, I don't mind the USB-C-only MacBook Pros and using dongles, but at least make them compatible...
Yeah...we know your history man. For the last years every time we found bugs during the beta you cover your eyes and accuse of being wrong. In your sunshine world everything is rosey. Glad you aren't working there on the OS otherwise we would have a real big **** now.
not sure what you're talking about. have posted about the issues i've had (a horrible one on the early 10.13.4 betas, with messages on my mac, now fixed). if you look more carefully, you will see that: i like moving forward, i get annoyed when people decide that what they experience speaks for everyone; i offer help when i can, and ask for help when i need it. that is my history. nothing more, nothing less. peace!
In my case Windows 10 is better than macOS in terms for performance and stability. TC said one time that they were in the right direction and MS was confused. Now Apple wil ltry to follow MS steps for OS development and mobile integration.
Technically, Lion was the last OS that was released under Steve Jobs. Lion came out in July, he stepped down in August, and then died in October.
I love how people usually say that if it works for me, it works for everyone. I usually assume that these people mostly browse Facebook and write three essays a month on their Mac. Just skim through each macOS edition forum and compare number of threads with issues. For me it is easily noticable that High Sierra causes most.
I only use Mac since 2013. During that time I've been:
In general, in my experience from Mavericks to Sierra, only Yosemite had some bugs but those were mostly cosmetics. Nothing too critical. It's easy to check - just go to my profile and see if I had complained about them back then. I did not.
The more I use High Sierra the more I admire Microsoft. Windows 10 is also rolling release and it also has some bugs but compared to High Sierra, it's smooth as butter. I can't remember Windows 10 having any critical issues - the worst I had was inability to run Visual Studio as different user than the one I was logged on (yes, it's possible on Windows). All of that considering Microsoft is supporting 99% of hardware under the Sun, while Apple only a fraction of that and still fails at that (eg. nVidia cards with 10.13).
You don't hear people say on Windows forums - Adobe software really hates AMD cards, or - run this game under _some-other-os_ for better performance. Such stuff is really non-issue.
PS.: I really like some Apple stuff, that's why I'm here, but saying that everything is fine and dandy just irritates me because it's clearly not. Oh, and iMovie regularly crashes on every macOS edition (it's part of experience).
I only use Mac since 2013. During that time I've been:
- programming in Xcode, Clion and Netbeans,
- creating movies both in FCPX and iMovie,
- extensively using iPhoto, Photos, DxO OpticsPro, DxO PhotoLab, Lightroom, Affinity Photo, Pixelmator,
- using tons of external media - pendrives, SD-cards, external HDDs. Usualy with DMGs, both encrypted and not,
- browsing web, using Office, playing some games, just general stuff
In general, in my experience from Mavericks to Sierra, only Yosemite had some bugs but those were mostly cosmetics. Nothing too critical. It's easy to check - just go to my profile and see if I had complained about them back then. I did not.
The more I use High Sierra the more I admire Microsoft. Windows 10 is also rolling release and it also has some bugs but compared to High Sierra, it's smooth as butter. I can't remember Windows 10 having any critical issues - the worst I had was inability to run Visual Studio as different user than the one I was logged on (yes, it's possible on Windows). All of that considering Microsoft is supporting 99% of hardware under the Sun, while Apple only a fraction of that and still fails at that (eg. nVidia cards with 10.13).
You don't hear people say on Windows forums - Adobe software really hates AMD cards, or - run this game under _some-other-os_ for better performance. Such stuff is really non-issue.
PS.: I really like some Apple stuff, that's why I'm here, but saying that everything is fine and dandy just irritates me because it's clearly not. Oh, and iMovie regularly crashes on every macOS edition (it's part of experience).
The same could be said of people who assume that if they have problems then everyone has problems.
I myself have two MacBooks on HS - one's a 2013 Air that I use as a portable work computer and the other my personal 2015 Pro.
The pro especially is loaded up with Royal TS, RDP, Sql Operations Studio (beta), dbVisualizer, Visual Studio and xCode on the Dev side, Astro & Office 365 on the productivity side, 2 heavily used browsers (my Vivaldi enables my major tab addiction), multi file syncs (Crashplan, TimeMachine and Tresorit), Plex Server and Steam with about 40 various games. And that's just the stuff I can think off from the top of my head. This is my daily driver and is used pretty heavily.
The Air has all the same bar Plex and Steam.
In all this time the ONLY issue that has been negative is having to restart my Pro twice due to an older version of Vivaldi going postal on my CPU.
Listen, I'm not going to defend High Sierra here - there's obviously a larger number of people that there perhaps should be with issues with it to say otherwise; but let's also understand that there's also a large number of people who have had no major concerns with it at all and to just assume that the only reason for that is that they're not 'pushing it' it is totally untrue.