HomePod's Sound Continues to Receive Top Marks After Listening Demos in New York and London

[vipergts2207]

People reviewing it so far haven't done any meaningful reviews. On the other hand, some people are waiting for music magazines putting a HomePod into a lab and measuring things, and I can only tell you that this will not give any meaningful results. Like they will try to measure the frequency response. At the same time, the HomePod will measure the layout of their lab, and produce the best result it can in that lab room. It will twist its frequency response so that the ears of the listener get the best possible result, and if you look at the measurements, they will look godawful. Because you have a speaker that doesn't try to produce the best sound coming out of the speaker, but the best sound entering the listener's ears.

It seems to me that if the A8 processing is all it’s cracked up to be, the HomePod should actually be able to give a relatively flat frequency response. Otherwise Apple will have done a half-assed job imo. Most wireless speakers like this can’t ‘hear’ themselves, but the HomePod can because it has microphones. This feature is actually relatively common in the home theater arena, with room correction software built into the receiver like Audyssey, YPAO, Dirac, etc. When you first set up the receiver, you plug a microphone into it and it plays test tones and figures out how to compensate for both the speakers you’re using and the room itself. Apple’s processing should, at least in theory, perform the same type of thing.

 

[OllyW]

You need an Apple Music subscription to play the music you want _using Siri on the HomePod_. You can play any music, or any sound at all, from any Mac, any iPhone, any PC with Airplay software, any Android device with Airplay software, just not by using Siri. What the situation is with iTunes Match, nobody knows. Siri on my Mac plays music from iTunes Match. (Just tried: Command space, said "play music by Pink Floyd", and it started playing "Pigs on The Wing"). Works even with music that I recorded from LPs.

I’ve been using it for the last ten years so I’m pretty familiar with AirPlay streaming.

All the reports I’ve seen so far say iTunes Match doesn’t work natively on the HomePod with Siri control, which if true is pretty crappy.

Here’s the latest one https://www.imore.com/how-homepod-w...h-icloud-music-library-airplay-and-flac-files

 

[Keirasplace]

Flat is exactly what a speaker should be. All frequencies played at the same amplitude when playing a swept sine wave.

And in what condition? A treated room? What about if your siting to the side and getting a lot of bounce from a wall in front or behind? What response will you get with those dumb as brick "flat response" speakers, especially as the sound level increases.

That's the fun thing about this, probably pretty terrible, with phase problems too, echo.

 

[gnasher729]

Every single one of these “reviews” are nothing but regurgitated Apple marketing BS by internet bloggers and tech sites looking for clicks. Not one of these “reviewers” has asked or provided answers to any questions even a junior reporter or technical person would ask.

Absolutely true.

So, I’ll say it again. Apple has launched a product with no clear purpose, applications, instructions, specifications, 1/2 baked features and for $350 no clear benefit over competitors.

Absolutely false. It has one fully baked feature: It plays music. Some time soon we will know whether a single HomePod is as good as other $350 systems (and that would be $350 for how many speakers you want, and how many amplifiers you need for them, to get a fair comparison), and whether two HomePods are as good as other $700 systems.

It has one big advantage over conventional systems: There is one cable, which you plug into a power outlet, and then you put the HomePod where you want it, and that's it.

It has another feature: It's a home hub for home automation. Which is useful. Means I can switch the lights at home without my iPhone. And from the other side of the world if I want (well, that's useful...).

It has another feature: It has Siri integrated. No phone needed.

It has another feature: It lets you play 45 million songs if you pay $99 a year, controlled with voice commands.
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I’ve been using it for the last ten years so I’m pretty familiar with AirPlay streaming.

All the reports I’ve seen so far say iTunes Match doesn’t work natively on the HomePod with Siri control, which if true is pretty crappy.

Here’s the latest one https://www.imore.com/how-homepod-w...h-icloud-music-library-airplay-and-flac-files

I've read that one. He is just repeating that he doesn't actually know what happens with iTunes Match. If you feel frustrated that all the information seems to be controlled by marketing idiots, who only think about using a HomePod the way they think you should use it, and not the way you and I want to use it, I fully agree with that.

 

[Keirasplace]

Absolutely true.


Absolutely false. It has one fully baked feature: It plays music. Some time soon we will know whether a single HomePod is as good as other $350 systems (and that would be $350 for how many speakers you want, and how many amplifiers you need for them, to get a fair comparison), and whether two HomePods are as good as other $700 systems.

It has one big advantage over conventional systems: There is one cable, which you plug into a power outlet, and then you put the HomePod where you want it, and that's it.

It has another feature: It's a home hub for home automation. Which is useful. Means I can switch the lights at home without my iPhone. And from the other side of the world if I want (well, that's useful...).

It has another feature: It has Siri integrated. No phone needed.

It has another feature: It lets you play 45 million songs if you pay $99 a year, controlled with voice commands.

Some people act when those youtube reviews come up like all these people are in fact paid and lying and somehow when actual "real reviewers" and "real audiophiles" and "real people" somehow it will get a different response.

The interesting thing about this speaker is that it very very hard to compare because it does not offer the same value proposition as other speakers.

Also, the homepod is trying essentially make a standing wave using direct and indirect sound providing the best audio for the room it is in and audio it is playing, so listening in a very big neutral treated room (which many people don't have) is in fact the only way you can meaningfully compare it's sound to a normal stereo pair... the problem is that this is not the way those speakers, the homepod or the other tested pair, are ever used and by doing that you'd be essentially handicaping the homepod.


Computational photography emerged in a big way in the last 5 years, well this is the emergence of computational audio for the masses, and yes it will be disruptive long term cause this tech will make its way with 5-8 years in even $100 speakers (not from Apple probably and everyone, not just audiophiles will have decent audio.

 

[OllyW]

I've read that one. He is just repeating that he doesn't actually know what happens with iTunes Match. If you feel frustrated that all the information seems to be controlled by marketing idiots, who only think about using a HomePod the way they think you should use it, and not the way you and I want to use it, I fully agree with that.

I don’t understand why Apple are being so cagey about how it functions. I realise it’s being pushed as a vehicle for Apple Music but why hold information back that could help non subscribers decide if it’s a suitable product for them.

 

[jujufreeze]

You get what you pay for.

Will it natively integrate with Spotify out of the box for another $100?

 

[DakotaGuy]

TOn the other hand, some people are waiting for music magazines putting a HomePod into a lab and measuring things, and I can only tell you that this will not give any meaningful results. Like they will try to measure the frequency response. At the same time, the HomePod will measure the layout of their lab, and produce the best result it can in that lab room. It will twist its frequency response so that the ears of the listener get the best possible result, and if you look at the measurements, they will look godawful. Because you have a speaker that doesn't try to produce the best sound coming out of the speaker, but the best sound entering the listener's ears.

We also have been told that the sound from a single HomePod produces something that tells the listener's ears where the instruments in a recording are positioned. But it's different from stereo. It sounds different.

I'm going to guess the raw frequency response on this thing is probably going to *look bad* compared to normal mid to high end bookshelf or floor standing speakers. Making small speakers sound good takes some (for lack of a better term) Bose trickery. Now I don't have any issue with coloring the sound to hit those sweet spots for the human ear, but audiophiles generally do not like speakers that trick your ears because they claim it alters the original material too much. Yes by using audio beam forming and plenty of equalization you can make small speakers sound good. Bose has mastered this by using wave guides and equalizing the heck out of the source material. With that said, it'll probably sound good, but will introduce a heck of a lot of coloring through processing. You still have to deal with the laws of physics when you are asking tiny tweeters and a small single bass driver to provide loud room filling sound comparable to much larger speakers.

The bigger issue for me is no native support for anything other then Apple music and only iOS products. It doesn't support Bluetooth nor does it have any sort of physical inputs. Even with Airplay it's pretty limited to what it can do. Want to hook up your cable box? Nope. Turntable? Nope. Have voice control of Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Play? Nope. Own an Android phone along with your iOS devices? Can't use it. How about your iTunes library? Nope. Apple Music only.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Ok. You partly explained the second comment, but the first just seems like gibberish. Using English would be better

So there is a lack of respect from these so called audiophiles for folks who just want a good speaker. It’s great that someone spends thousands of dollars on speakers but I just want to listen to music without the pomp and circumstance.

“Do you” is an expression for do what you want to do if it makes you happy. For example: I’m going to move away! Okay man do you.

Is there anything else?

 

[johngordon]

Question, I have been following your conversation for a couple of pages now, and I’m curious. From what you are saying or implying, a single B&W zeppelin will sound better that two HomePods? I went to the B&W website and was reading up on that speaker.
And does a single unit give true stereo sound or would a person need to buy two to get the full effect?
I do love the fact that it has a single 6” speaker/subwoofer built in which MUST sound better than any 4” speaker calling itself a subwoofer.
Thx

I’m certainly no expert, but from what I’ve read the travel the woofer has in the HomePod of 20mm is pretty much unheard of in a such a small speaker and a big part of how it is able to kick out more bass than you might think from looking at it.

Stereo sound is almost a misnomer - more and more people jave moved away from the traditional set up of two adjacent speakers in a room.

I think with these sorts of speakers it’s more about how well the fill the sound stage, more in 3D, and how well a couple of them do that compared to two more traditional speakers. These sorts of speakers are pretty smart by all accounts the way they sense the shape and size of the room they are filling with music.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

And in what condition? A treated room? What about if your siting to the side and getting a lot of bounce from a wall in front or behind? What response will you get with those dumb as brick "flat response" speakers, especially as the sound level increases.

That's the fun thing about this, probably pretty terrible, with phase problems too, echo.

In an anechoic chamber with a high quality test mike at a specified distance I think is the usual way.

A speaker that deviates from a perfect flat response is going to cope less with real room conditions.

 

[Abazigal]

Why do products need to solve a problem?

But since you asked, I can drop one of these in the kitchen, and use my phone to cue up and play music, without having to go and fiddle with the iPod currently sat in a dock connected to a little Sony thing.

Sure, its a First World Problem, but its still going to be less hassle and more convenient. And if they sound as good as they reportedly do, then I'm in.

Because that’s what Apple does. Take an emerging product category with a frustrating user experience and deliver a polished product made possible by its control over both the hardware and software.

They are not going to dive into a product category if they didn’t think they could do a better job or offer their own unique twist on it.

 

[drlunanerd]

I don’t understand why Apple are being so cagey about how it functions. I realise it’s being pushed as a vehicle for Apple Music but why hold information back that could help non subscribers decide if it’s a suitable product for them.

Seconded.

News just in: HomePod does work with iCloud Music Library.

 

[ke-iron]

Question, I have been following your conversation for a couple of pages now, and I’m curious. From what you are saying or implying, a single B&W zeppelin will sound better that two HomePods? I went to the B&W website and was reading up on that speaker.
And does a single unit give true stereo sound or would a person need to buy two to get the full effect?
I do love the fact that it has a single 6” speaker/subwoofer built in which MUST sound better than any 4” speaker calling itself a subwoofer.
Thx

I referenced my zeppelin wireless because it’s the cost of 2 HomePods and it is the best sounding wireless system I’ve ever heard. Stereo and instrument separation is great with the zeppelin wireless. People on here were saying if you want stereo or better sound than the HomePod just get a true 2.1 setup for about the same price, which I disagree with.

I am curious myself to know how it stacks up against 2 HomePods since all the previews are basically praising the sound quality.

 

[DakotaGuy]

In an anechoic chamber with a high quality test mike at a specified distance I think is the usual way.

A speaker that deviates from a perfect flat response is going to cope less with real room conditions.

I think this review is a little more telling about the flatness of the frequency response.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/27/homepod-first-impressions-sound-lacking/

It does well with highs and lows, but is lacking in the midrange according to this reviewer. Bose haters have always said "No highs, No lows, must be Bose" but that not really accurate. Small Bose speakers sound good to the ear because they put emphasis on the highs and lows and forget about the midrange for the most part. Now I don't really care how a speaker tests as long as it sounds good to me. Bose never releases any sort of frequency data of their products and I can promise neither will Apple. There will be independent testers, but I don't think the raw data really matters to anyone except true audiophiles.

 

[prasand]

Why not actually read the page before jumping to conclusions? There's no mention whatsoever for third party streaming support, a limitation since SiriKit launched for iOS 10.

Of course, you can always AirPlay Spotify to the HomePod, but that's like Steve Jobs saying in 2007 that the iPhone supports apps through the web.

I personally fine with AirPlay for my own use case, but Siri is clearly the mainstream UI for this device. At some point SiriKit will have to add a streaming domain.

There’s actually no need for a streaming intent. Spotify already has limited playback fuctionality that works with SiriKit. If I recall correctly it’s like 2 or 4 play position keywords. And while SiriKit indeed does need greater support, it can be done. So let’s say, Spotify is already playing through AirPlay, and you say “Hey Siri, last track” ... since the “last track” command works in Spotify on iOS it is possible it will work with HomePod.

But that is speculation.

The fact remains, Spotify can be controlled using Siri, without a streaming intent. So intents only give a limited view of what is possible. Granted, I do believe Apple should and will supply more intents, by the next WWDC. But I guess that depends on the sales of HomePod, if it sells well, then it’ll go from a hobby product to a serious one. Currently I see them as testing the market.

 

[ke-iron]

Every single one of these “reviews” are nothing but regurgitated Apple marketing BS by internet bloggers and tech sites looking for clicks. Not one of these “reviewers” has asked or provided answers to any questions even a junior reporter or technical person would ask. So, I’ll say it again. Apple has launched a product with no clear purpose, applications, instructions, specifications, 1/2 baked features and for $350 no clear benefit over competitors.

If I can’t play my 137GB+ iTunes music library to this thing WTF would I buy it? If I can’t use its Bluetooth features why would I pay for it? If I can’t steam to it except from Apple Music then where is my subsidized subscription? Sorry, this like every launch in last few years from Apple is a mess.
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And seemingly asked Apple engineers absolutely no questions?

Dude what are you ranting about? Have you actually read any or the reviews/ previews?

“Apple has launched a product with no clear purpose, applications, instructions, specifications, 1/2 baked features and for $350 no clear benefit over competitors.” “If I can’t steam to it except from Apple Music then where is my subsidized subscription?”

You’re not serious.

 

[johngordon]

Every single one of these “reviews” are nothing but regurgitated Apple marketing BS by internet bloggers and tech sites looking for clicks. Not one of these “reviewers” has asked or provided answers to any questions even a junior reporter or technical person would ask. So, I’ll say it again. Apple has launched a product with no clear purpose, applications, instructions, specifications, 1/2 baked features and for $350 no clear benefit over competitors.

If I can’t play my 137GB+ iTunes music library to this thing WTF would I buy it? If I can’t use its Bluetooth features why would I pay for it? If I can’t steam to it except from Apple Music then where is my subsidized subscription? Sorry, this like every launch in last few years from Apple is a mess.
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And seemingly asked Apple engineers absolutely no questions?

Yes, because no-one ever got no clicks for writing negative crap about Apple.

And what are you even talking about - of course you can play your iTunes library on it.

 

[gnipgnop]

We know today: A HomePod has six tweeters, six microphones, one subwoofer that isn't very big but has quite large displacement, and one rather powerful processor that controls everything.

Seven tweeters.

 

[PLondon]

I would wait for the software update on the HomePod that enables stereo playback to make a final judgement. But yes I do think the 2 HomePod setup would be able to compete with any 2.1 system in the same price range. I’m talking sound quality, not how loud or how low in bass the system can go.
While frequency response and sound quality are related you put some unrealistic number that’s is completely irrelevant to any product we are discussing, whether it be the zeppelin wireless or HomePod. The processor also plays a huge part in good the music sounds.

You seem to think a $700 wireless music system can’t sound better than a 2.1 system for the same price or less says it all about what you think about wireless music systems. I’m sure the setup you mentioned is solid, but I honestly don’t think it would sound better. I do think it sounds louder and has more bass, but not better clarity or truer sound.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I believe people need to stop comparing these to HiFi speakers. The HomePod is a wireless voice control system that also happens to play audio, much like Google Home and Alexa. It might sound better then that very limited competition or it might not we don't know yet.

What the HomePod will never do in it's current design is sound better than proper wireless (Airplay) or wired speaker at the same price made by a dedicated speaker company. For starters the casing is made of plastic and there has never ever been a good speaker with a plastic box. Plastic is simply not a good material for audio speakers.

Sadly Apple has to try and dazzle people with techno nonsense as they know Siri is not up to the job and to make matters worse don't support Spotify etc.

I'm sure it will sell because most people are not bothered by audio quality. But please people, stop trying to say that this will revolutionise the audio industry at this price point. It's a cheap plastic speaker with cheap audio components in sheep's clothing. Don't let Apple pull the wool over your eyes with techno babel.

If you want a voice control home device that also plays music. Buy Google or Alexa and you'll save lots of money and have a much better voice assistant. If you want a good airplay speaker, do some proper research and you'll find many dedicated brands out there that will provide a much better music experience.

 

[RickInHouston]

I'm an audiophile. I have a really nice rig in my living room. Really nice.

I have a playlist of songs that sound fantastic on my system.

I could play you songs that make the system sound like crap.

Why do you think this demo provided by apple was in a room configured by apple playing music of apple's choosing?

Thank you.

 

[chfilm]

According to the reviews I read, the answer is “yes”, but you’d need to use AirPlay. A little bit less convenient that playing Spotify on the Alexa devices.
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Your problem is just that Siri doesn’t understand redneck.

Just switch to Apple Music already!

 

[richsw]

The speaker is only 7 inches tall and people are talking about its bass response...that's pretty good.

I think they are comparing the bass response to other 7 inch tall speakers.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I believe people need to stop comparing these to HiFi speakers. The HomePod is a wireless voice control system that also happens to play audio, much like Google Home and Alexa. It might sound better then that very limited competition or it might not we don't know yet.

What the HomePod will never do in it's current design is sound better than proper wireless (Airplay) or wired speaker at the same price made by a dedicated speaker company. For starters the casing is made of plastic and there has never ever been a good speaker with a plastic box. Plastic is simply not a good material for audio speakers.

Sadly Apple has to try and dazzle people with techno nonsense as they know Siri is not up to the job and to make matters worse don't support Spotify etc.

I'm sure it will sell because most people are not bothered by audio quality. But please people, stop trying to say that this will revolutionise the audio industry at this price point. It's a cheap plastic speaker with cheap audio components in sheep's clothing. Don't let Apple pull the wool over your eyes with techno babel.

If you want a voice control home device that also plays music. Buy Google or Alexa and you'll save lots of money and have a much better voice assistant. If you want a good airplay speaker, do some proper research and you'll find many dedicated brands out there that will provide a much better music experience.

People need to stop comparing HomePod to the smart microphone (with a speaker) products available from Google and Amazon. HomePod is an AirPlay-enabled, self-powered speaker that apparently sounds very good for the price. You can use it with Spotify or your other music source of choice using what you call “proper wireless”.

Beyond that, it has some voice assistant capabilities that are also available.

Why not listen to it before complaining about the sound quality?

 

[FX120]

I’m certainly no expert, but from what I’ve read the travel the woofer has in the HomePod of 20mm is pretty much unheard of in a such a small speaker and a big part of how it is able to kick out more bass than you might think from looking at it.

Stereo sound is almost a misnomer - more and more people jave moved away from the traditional set up of two adjacent speakers in a room.

I think with these sorts of speakers it’s more about how well the fill the sound stage, more in 3D, and how well a couple of them do that compared to two more traditional speakers. These sorts of speakers are pretty smart by all accounts the way they sense the shape and size of the room they are filling with music.

20mm of Xmax on a small driver is pretty much unheard of because it’s generally a bad idea. Non-linearity will exist in any mechanical speaker suspension, and only gets worse as you ask that suspension to move further and further. It also requires the voice coil to move further outside of the most dense part of the magnetic field as you approach peak excursion, at which point you have less and less control over the cone. For a midbass woofer, this is bad and you’ll get floppy undefiened bass with very little dynamic ability. For a midrange, this is terrible as you'll introduce a ton of distortion as volume levels increase.

There are advanced FIR techniques that can be used in some instances to "pre-ring" the system to try and create destructive interference that will attempt and cancel the distortion, but this input will cause other issues at other frequencies.

Physics is a bitch, and there is no free lunch with speaker design. You can fix one thing in DSP, but you will always pay a penalty elsewhere in the system.