HomePod's Sound Continues to Receive Top Marks After Listening Demos in New York and London

[johngordon]

I believe people need to stop comparing these to HiFi speakers. The HomePod is a wireless voice control system that also happens to play audio, much like Google Home and Alexa. It might sound better then that very limited competition or it might not we don't know yet.

What the HomePod will never do in it's current design is sound better than proper wireless (Airplay) or wired speaker at the same price made by a dedicated speaker company. For starters the casing is made of plastic and there has never ever been a good speaker with a plastic box. Plastic is simply not a good material for audio speakers.

Sadly Apple has to try and dazzle people with techno nonsense as they know Siri is not up to the job and to make matters worse don't support Spotify etc.

I'm sure it will sell because most people are not bothered by audio quality. But please people, stop trying to say that this will revolutionise the audio industry at this price point. It's a cheap plastic speaker with cheap audio components in sheep's clothing. Don't let Apple pull the wool over your eyes with techno babel.

If you want a voice control home device that also plays music. Buy Google or Alexa and you'll save lots of money and have a much better voice assistant. If you want a good airplay speaker, do some proper research and you'll find many dedicated brands out there that will provide a much better music experience.

So if it’s a cheap plastic speaker with cheap audio components, are you saying it’s no different from something that costs, say, $50-100?

It’s definitely not on a par with, say, other speakers in the $300+ price range?

And which bit is plastic? I thought it had a mesh casing.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

I think this review is a little more telling about the flatness of the frequency response.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/27/homepod-first-impressions-sound-lacking/

It does well with highs and lows, but is lacking in the midrange according to this reviewer. Bose haters have always said "No highs, No lows, must be Bose" but that not really accurate. Small Bose speakers sound good to the ear because they put emphasis on the highs and lows and forget about the midrange for the most part. Now I don't really care how a speaker tests as long as it sounds good to me. Bose never releases any sort of frequency data of their products and I can promise neither will Apple. There will be independent testers, but I don't think the raw data really matters to anyone except true audiophiles.

The original comment of "flat sounding" wasn't directed at the Homepod but the Sonos speaker used by Apple for the demo of Homepod. I remarked that "flat" is what is desired of a sound system. However it has been suggested that the reviewer was meaning "lifeless".
On reading the original review, the description of the Sonos speaker was "uncharacteristically flat". Tom's hardware reviewer commented that the Google Home Max sounded "unusually muffled". Have these two devices been made to perform in a poor manner for the Homepod demo?

 

[johngordon]

20mm of Xmax on a small driver is pretty much unheard of because it’s generally a bad idea. Non-linearity will exist in any mechanical speaker suspension, and only gets worse as you ask that suspension to move further and further. It also requires the voice coil to move further outside of the most dense part of the magnetic field as you approach peak excursion, at which point you have less and less control over the cone. For a midbass woofer, this is bad and you’ll get floppy undefiened bass with very little dynamic ability. For a midrange, this is terrible as you'll introduce a ton of distortion as volume levels increase.

There are advanced FIR techniques that can be used in some instances to "pre-ring" the system to try and create destructive interference that will attempt and cancel the distortion, but this input will cause other issues at other frequencies.

Physics is a bitch, and there is no free lunch with speaker design. You can fix one thing in DSP, but you will always pay a penalty elsewhere in the system.

Is that like Facial recognition is a bad idea though, in that the existing tech isn’t quite there to do it justice?

Isn’t it even remotely possible that the whole point is that Apple have spent time working on this and gotten around those problems?

Early reviews are after all reporting that the bass on them is really good, and without distortion even at loud volumes.

 

[richsw]

Look I’m sure it sounds good if not exactly amazing and better than it’s competitors. The question I’d like answered which I’m skeptical about is simply: overall, does the HomePod justify it’s price

Do $20000 Martin Logans justify their price? Does a Rolex justify it's price?

 

[Stella]

Let’s hear the speakers in an average person’s home. That will be the acid test of how good these speakers are.

A demo room has been designed for best performance.

The article says they were invited to listen in Apple’s demo room.

 

[Burger Thing]

Because that’s what Apple does. Take an emerging product category with a frustrating user experience and deliver a polished product made possible by its control over both the hardware and software.

They are not going to dive into a product category if they didn’t think they could do a better job or offer their own unique twist on it.

Something is not adding up here. What is the frustrating user experience exactly and what is Apple polishing here? In the “emerging category” of Smart Speakers, you talk in this specific case of frustration of using Google Home or Alexa? And Apple provides a polish with Siri?

Or the frustration in integrating various music sources and Streaming services?

Or maybe you referring to the frustrations due to a lack of sound quality? While i don’t want to comment too much about that before hearing them in person or at least reading some real reviews, right now Apple’s polish will be in Mono only due to the fact that HomePod will not pair up with another unit to play in Stereo. That’s rather disappointing, considering it’s marketed towards its audio qualities and when held against the high standards of Apple “delivering polish”.

 

[ayale99]

The haters can hate. The audiophiles can proclaim that this $350 speaker does not compare with their $10,000 speakers. (Duh!) The Alexa lovers can complain that the HomePad only supports Siri. (Uh, duh.) But all I know is I'm fully enveloped in the Apple ecosystem, I'm happy, and I can't wait for my HomePod to arrive! Good times are here!

DILLY, DILLY!

 

[FX120]

Is that like Facial recognition is a bad idea though, in that the existing tech isn’t quite there to do it justice?

Isn’t it even remotely possible that the whole point is that Apple have spent time working on this and gotten around those problems?

Early reviews are after all reporting that the bass on them is really good, and without distortion even at loud volumes.

Thats an entirely subjective point. "Really good bass" can mean that there is a big boost at 150-300hz, and have no idea what distortion a sounds like. As long as there is a lot of "something" in that frequency range people may be satisfied. That's the classic Bose approach, and it works, but it doesn't make a speaker good.

If Apple has suddenly pioneered some technology that has allowed them to circumvent the rules of physics in audio, they would be making a much bigger deal about it than they are. This speaker is just using very traditional speaker technology and mixing it with some clever marketing. Beam forming sounds cool and high tech to your average consumer because they're going to picture this device creating a beam of audio in the same way a flashlight creates a beam of light, never mind the fact that doesn't work like that. Yet the tech bloggers can't get enough of this cool "beam forming" technology, when all it will do at best is create a -6db lobe at the upper frequencies and won't have a drastically narrower pattern than a small horn tweeter.

 

[richsw]

Guarantee you people will think it sounds great.

There just aren’t mass marketed speakers out there besides Bose, and people think those are outstanding. They are crap in reality.

Hardly anyone knows about audio. The masses listen to music through a $10 pair of headphones and think Bose/Beats are high quality audio. They think surround sound is a $200 sound bar.

I say this sitting in a room with $15,000 worth of audio equipment.

At least the masses are listening to music. Hopefully paying for it somehow or listening to ad supported.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Guarantee you people will think it sounds great.

There just aren’t mass marketed speakers out there besides Bose, and people think those are outstanding. They are crap in reality.

Hardly anyone knows about audio. The masses listen to music through a $10 pair of headphones and think Bose/Beats are high quality audio. They think surround sound is a $200 sound bar.

I say this sitting in a room with $15,000 worth of audio equipment.

I won't get into a Bose argument, but I will say I have always been satisfied with my Bose products. They have worked well, sounded good and lasted for years. Customer support has always been top notch as well. They are the masters at making something small sound good, but in doing so they have to eq the crap out of it and engineer all sorts of small wave guides and tuned ports. Audiophiles hate this because it colors the music, but without coloring the music and forcing the frequency response into certain high and low areas you are up against the laws of physics with small speakers.

I think the HomePod will sound good for a small speaker, but don't think for a second that Apple isn't doing a lot of "Bose trickery" to make a little speaker sound big and fill a room. Big, room filling sound from a small speaker is a line right out of the Bose playbook. Whether you use physical engineering or electronically alter the sound waves something has to be done to the sound to make a small speaker perform bigger then it is. If you applied the same engineering to these small speakers that you would to a large bookshelf or floor standing speaker it would sound lifeless and flat.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Thats an entirely subjective point. "Really good bass" can mean that there is a big boost at 150-300hz, and have no idea what distortion a sounds like. As long as there is a lot of "something" in that frequency range people may be satisfied. That's the classic Bose approach, and it works, but it doesn't make a speaker good.

Also, two oft used descriptions of bass are "muddy" and "tight". I know what I look out for in a product

 

[FX120]

Also, two oft used descriptions of bass are "muddy" and "tight". I know what I look out for in a product

I've always liked "sloppy", "tubby", and "floppy".

It's hard because there are actual, real metrics that can be used to define settling time, response time and distortion with bass drivers but they're hardly ever used in the press.

 

[mariusignorello]

Will it natively integrate with Spotify out of the box for another $100?

No.

 

[Cobalt50]

20mm of Xmax on a small driver is pretty much unheard of because it’s generally a bad idea. Non-linearity will exist in any mechanical speaker suspension, and only gets worse as you ask that suspension to move further and further. It also requires the voice coil to move further outside of the most dense part of the magnetic field as you approach peak excursion, at which point you have less and less control over the cone. For a midbass woofer, this is bad and you’ll get floppy undefiened bass with very little dynamic ability. For a midrange, this is terrible as you'll introduce a ton of distortion as volume levels increase.

There are advanced FIR techniques that can be used in some instances to "pre-ring" the system to try and create destructive interference that will attempt and cancel the distortion, but this input will cause other issues at other frequencies.

Physics is a bitch, and there is no free lunch with speaker design. You can fix one thing in DSP, but you will always pay a penalty elsewhere in the system.

You sound like you know what you are talking about You may not but you have me convinced. I don't know anything about sound physics. I just want to know if the HomePod sounds appreciably better than the Sonos-1. If it doesn't, I'm buying the Sonos. I guess I'll know that when I can listen to a Homepod.

 

[FX120]

You sound like you know what you are talking about You may not but you have me convinced. I don't know anything about sound physics. I just want to know if the HomePod sounds appreciably better than the Sonos-1. If it doesn't, I'm buying the Sonos. I guess I'll know that when I can listen to a Homepod.

It will probably sound "better" than a Sonos 1, because the Sonos will suffer from the same problems as the HomePod.

My post is really intended as a rebuff of the over excited fanboyism flying around this form claiming that this stupid smart speaker is going to suddenly make real bookshelf speakers or monitors redundant.

If you really care about audio quality and have $700 to drop on speakers there are going to be better options with traditional HiFi equipment + a $39 Echo spot. If you care more about the wireless convenience and sound quality is of secondary importance, buy the Sonos. If you just want a smart speaker, buy an Alexa device or Google Home.

 

[Cobalt50]

It will probably sound "better" than a Sonos 1, because the Sonos will suffer from the same problems as the HomePod.

My post is really intended as a rebuff of the over excited fanboyism flying around this form claiming that this stupid smart speaker is going to suddenly make real bookshelf speakers or monitors redundant.

If you really care about audio quality and have $700 to drop on speakers there are going to be better options with traditional HiFi equipment + a $39 Echo spot. If you care more about the wireless convenience and sound quality is of secondary importance, buy the Sonos. If you just want a smart speaker, buy an Alexa device or Google Home.

I'm just some schmuck who mostly listens to my music from my MacBook speakers (and, occasionally with some better Sony headphones). Once in a while I think it might be a good idea to get some room speakers because that would, um, sort of be like a regular stereo.

After I posted I remembered the Homepod is most functional with Apple Music. I don't have Apple Music and I'm not getting Apple Music. Looks likee Sonos is it for me. If I buy anything at all.

 

[Gameboy70]

Why does Windows not have iTunes installed on their OS by default and therefore force u to go through additional steps just to use iTunes? Because microsoft have no reason to advertise it.

Same thing with Apple and Spotify.
You want spotify? AirPlay it.

A more exact comparison would be the Echo, doesn't have or allow Spotify as it's default music source—but still supports voice control if you name the non-default source: e.g., "Alexa, play Houses of the Holy on Spotify". It's a little more friction on the user than just saying, "Alexa, play Houses of the Holy," which launches the album on Prime Music, but it's vastly better than no voice control. HomeKit doesn't allow HomePod to natively control third party streaming apps, default or otherwise. This doesn't affect me personally because I'm buying a couple primarily as kickass AirPlay speakers, but for normal people, "AirPlay it" is like saying, "Let them eat cake".

Having said that, I can still defend Apple's business logic here as a short-term strategy. The first wave of HomePod sales will undoubtedly drive AM adoption, just like the iPod created a few first-time Mac buyers before it was available on Windows. Eventually, though, the HomePod's reputation as an Apple Music accessory will be its Achilles' heel. I'm not worried that SiriKit will remain crippled forever, but I still wouldn't recommend the HomePod right now for anyone hoping for future third party streaming support through the device's voice UI.

 

[Baymowe335]

I won't get into a Bose argument, but I will say I have always been satisfied with my Bose products. They have worked well, sounded good and lasted for years. Customer support has always been top notch as well. They are the masters at making something small sound good, but in doing so they have to eq the crap out of it and engineer all sorts of small wave guides and tuned ports. Audiophiles hate this because it colors the music, but without coloring the music and forcing the frequency response into certain high and low areas you are up against the laws of physics with small speakers.

I think the HomePod will sound good for a small speaker, but don't think for a second that Apple isn't doing a lot of "Bose trickery" to make a little speaker sound big and fill a room. Big, room filling sound from a small speaker is a line right out of the Bose playbook. Whether you use physical engineering or electronically alter the sound waves something has to be done to the sound to make a small speaker perform bigger then it is. If you applied the same engineering to these small speakers that you would to a large bookshelf or floor standing speaker it would sound lifeless and flat.

You’ve been satisfied with Bose because you don’t know better, which will be the same with HomePod. I think HomePod will be better than Bose, but it still won’t be better sound than a $350 standalone speaker. The smart aspect and software integration will differentiate it from just being a good speaker, at least better than the competition.

I’m confident based on early reviews that Apple has the best hardware in he smart speaker market. They can improve the software. This is most likely going to be a successful product because they made it better than the competition for music. It’s going to blow people away because they are either used to TV speakers, sound bars, or inferior sounding smart speakers.

I would bet most people have never heard a high quality home audio setup.

Bose doesn’t make good headphones or speakers.

 

[Gameboy70]

There’s actually no need for a streaming intent. Spotify already has limited playback fuctionality that works with SiriKit. If I recall correctly it’s like 2 or 4 play position keywords. And while SiriKit indeed does need greater support, it can be done.

Ah, if you recall correctly. Source?

 

[haddy]

Which, because that isn’t part of Apple Music, you can’t play through HomePod.

Can you hookup a receiver/DAC to these speakers?

 

[Keirasplace]

In an anechoic chamber with a high quality test mike at a specified distance I think is the usual way.

A speaker that deviates from a perfect flat response is going to cope less with real room conditions.

Not if the purpose is to get the proper frequency at the listener, what importance is it to have a proper sound getting out of the speaker if the listener doesn't receive it. Sheetrock, wood, stucko, people, etc (bounces differently according to the frequency and level sound is played, doesn't matter how "pure" your originally original sound was in ideal situations, the typical room will not respond like that).

That's why people buying stereos are always disappointed when they take it home. Unless they're anal about treating the room according to were they sit and the kind of music they listen, it won't sound as good.

That's where people don't seem to get what on earth this thing is trying to do. There are seven sources that can independently send sound? Which one should have that "flat" response.

You're gut doesn't really make sense in a normal small living room setting playing at a decent volume. At a low volume were room acoustic has less play, yeah they'll sound better for sure but if you do that why even buy a big speaker and amp.

If anything, any test in a place without difficult acoustics is giving a freebee to those simple dumb speakers. The proper room to test would be using both in a small living room or kitchen.

 

[jicon]

I'm just some schmuck who mostly listens to my music from my MacBook speakers (and, occasionally with some better Sony headphones). Once in a while I think it might be a good idea to get some room speakers because that would, um, sort of be like a regular stereo.

After I posted I remembered the Homepod is most functional with Apple Music. I don't have Apple Music and I'm not getting Apple Music. Looks likee Sonos is it for me. If I buy anything at all.

Articles I have read today have me irked.

iOS only.
Recognizes only one voice
No way to connect to a DAC or receiver.
This sounds to be tied in to an Apple iOS ecosystem pretty darn hard.

I’ve been using two old airports with a nice set of speakers for each. If I was to do it all again, I might look at the Echo dot, or Sonoslay1

 

[Keirasplace]

Articles I have read today have me irked.

iOS only.
Recognizes only one voice
No way to connect to a DAC or receiver.
This sounds to be tied in to an Apple iOS ecosystem pretty darn hard.

I’ve been using two old airports with a nice set of speakers for each. If I was to do it all again, I might look at the Echo dot, or Sonoslay1

Iphone doesn't do cut and paste, etc, etc, blah blah blah... same old comments on a new product... Good for you... buy away.

 

[prasand]

Ah, if you recall correctly. Source?

https://community.spotify.com/t5/fo...ge/board-id/spotifyiOS/thread-id/38480/page/3

I think that link covers two commands, but if I recall correctly there are two more maximum. A little bit of research and you should be able to find the others. Greater support is probably coming, as alluded to by Tim Cook during an interview. Someone linked the interview earlier in this thread.

--- edit ---

Next track, pause, resume, previous track, skip, last song = so 6 (instead of 4) Siri voice commands work with Spotify, are covered in that thread. Also, in that thread is mentioned how the Melody iOS app allows full voice control of Spotify. So that means if the Spotify team wanted to, they could also do full voice control on iOS, and they wouldn't be limited by domains / intents. However, that doesn't mean such "full" control would be available via HomePod (but the basic Spotify playback controls should be available via HomePod). Just reflecting that there are ways to do it, beyond the perceived limits.

 

[Rogifan]

Because that’s what Apple does. Take an emerging product category with a frustrating user experience and deliver a polished product made possible by its control over both the hardware and software.

They are not going to dive into a product category if they didn’t think they could do a better job or offer their own unique twist on it.

What is the frustrating user experience and what is Apple polishing? There is no evidence that Siri on this device is better than Alexa or Google Assistant. And if this device is about music quality why doesn’t HomePod natively support as many music services as Sonos? Your paragraph might apply to AirPods but not HomePod.