Why have you using Apple things not made you think there just a company, can be fallible, and release a poor product?
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Apart from the headline which states "sounds lacking"
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HomePod's Sound Continues to Receive Top Marks After Listening Demos in New York and London
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Sure, of course its subjective. But in the context here, going from the consensus of first impressions, it seems fair to be optimistic that it will have bass that most regular non audiophiles will consider surprisingly good on the HomePod compared to other similar sized, and similarly priced, speakers.
I haven't really suggested anything about circumventing the rules of physics, but the woofer travel does sound like an objective benefit, especially if they have managed to eliminate distortion that might normally be expected at that scale.
My point isn't that its going to compete with hi end stuff - of course not. My point is that is seems reasonable to be optimistic that its going to sound at least as good, if not better, than other single room speakers in that ball park price range. That the price is probably going to be justified on audio quality, rather than sound the same as a $100 speaker that just comes with some unjustified Apple markup.
With the beam forming thing, I guess the main thing is how it sounds - I'm presuming it must make some difference compared to the exact same thing without it?
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I guess at the moment we are left with accepting the general consensus, or honing in on the one negative part of an otherwise fairly positive review.
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If you read my comment you find the answer to most of your questions.
We’ve not heard it yet so one can’t be precise. What we do know is that all the tweeters are mounted on a plastic housing. (The mesh is the outer cover) It might sound on par with say Google Home Max or maybe a Sonos speaker at the same price it might not. What we know for sure due to Apple’s choice of components is that it will not compare to similar priced WiFi speakers from traditional hifi brands. Which due to the complete uselessness of Siri and the fact it only supports Apple Music is pretty much all the HomePod is.
But look, each to their own, most buyers of this want know or care about good audio and will be happy with what they get. And that’s fine, let’s just not pretend that Apple has just rewritten home audio with its little plastic box and some fancy marketing terminology.
Apple says it’s about music quality, and 8 drivers using 8 separate amplifiers, a ton of real-time DSP, beam forming and a very high-excursion woofer back that up. The people who have heard it are, for the part, very impressed. They say it sounds great. No one raves about the sound quality of the Google/Amazon smart microphone products. (I’ll reserve judgment until I hear it for myself, using my music in my listening environment. I know good sound when I hear it, and it either will or won’t meet my needs.)
That Apple favors Apple Music/iTunes seems unsurprising. And as much as people seem to hate Siri, I’m not really sure why they think it’s lack of support for Spotify or whatever is such a deal breaker.
It seems like Apple has created a great sounding, self-powered WiFi speaker system that integrates well with their music service. I don’t think it will sell 25 million units a year like AirPod, but I don’t think Apple expects that either.
If you read the Wired link the actual headline of it is
They spend the rest of the time saying while the Bass and Treble are very good it lacks middle leaving lots of tracks lackluster. So a little bit misleading from MR.
Interesting, thank you. This review sounds quite positive indeed.
That being said, I take audiophile reviews with a grain of salt. Having spent quite a few years in an audiophile forum, I think audiophile opinions of a new product tend to follow a cycle: Initial reviews are exuberant and flaws are downplayed (e.g. "A single HoemPod is not quite as crisp as 2 X300A’s when it comes to the highs"). As time goes by the enthusiasm will calm down while the perception of flaws will become more pronounced. By the time the HomePod 2 is coming up, audiophiles will likely be praying that Apple will have fixed the unbearably muddy highs of the first version.
Actually no, I began with, "Many keep mentioning the lack of Spotify, Alexa, or whatever app, but it’s a bit blind." That opening statement is the actual premise.
It seems you don't have real comprehension, and are using words you don't understand the meaning of. You claim I started with something that I didn't. Then you call this an allegation that I tried to support:
No where in that statement am I claiming Apple has done something illegal or wrong. So ironically, by claiming my statement to be an allegation, you are actually alleging. Ultimately, in finding the information I was referencing, you proved that what I said was truthful. After all, Apple indeed "asked developers to make sure that their SiriKit implementations were compatible with HomePod months ago".
"Apple Asks Developers to Start Optimizing Apps for HomePod Using SiriKit in iOS 11.2" —macrumors, October 30, 2017
Unfortunately you didn't truly understand what you found, or why it is as it is. You probably listened to those misguided that came before you, following them off a cliff like a lemming. Because the Streaming Control "understanding" was not your insight. I've read the others on that matter who just didn't understand, and it's just the blind leading the blind. You merely assumed / deluded that I had not read what I referenced, instead of understanding that I actually just knew the situation beyond what I referenced. I just couldn't recall everything exactly because it's been awhile.
You mootly pointed out that its list of intents mentions nothing about streaming control. Because you delude that streaming control is necessary to do what you'd like for them to do. In truth, there is no need for a streaming control intent, and that would be insecure. "Streaming Control" literally means the ability to control streams. Which includes things like downloading, interrupting, etc. Something that generic would be very insecure. The probability of Apple ever doing something like that would be slim, not impossible but improbable.
SiriKit is about adding functionality that doesn't already exist in Siri.
If Siri can already do it, there's no need for such a domain or intent. Basic Spotify music playback / control, Siri can already do. Yes, I mistakingly typed "SiriKit" when I originally conveyed this, but the core idea is there. Siri can control Spotify, and it's without "hacks" that you delude. I gave you a list of keywords that work for Siri Spotify control without hacks. Hacks were mentioned in that thread, but your focus on such things was your choice, because basic Siri commands were also mentioned in that thread. You asked for a source, and I gave you one, but you selectively read it to substantiate your delusion.
The point is: since Siri can natively control Spotify playback functionality, there is no need for your misguided "Streaming Control" idea. It's redundant. -- I just happened to also additionally address the reality, that if Spotify wanted to enable true voice control on iOS they could do it without such SiriKit functionality. Amazon and Google do voice control in iOS, another app allows you to control Spotify via voice on iOS, so that means Spotify could do it too. SiriKit was not holding Spotify back in that regard, Spotify simply chose not to.
The best one can say, is that Amazon cannot be searched using Siri (but not, "Amazon or Alexa cannot be used via voice on iOS"), or similarly Spotify cannot be searched using Siri. Which leads to what SiriKit really needs, and it's not "Streaming Control". It needs the ability to search within an app and understand it generically. Let's instead call this a "Search Controls" intent or domain, or perhaps even an "Insight Controls". -- So what insight were you providing with your claim that I had not read the information that I was addressing? What insight were you providing with your "Stream Controls" lemmingness?
The entire point of everything I wrote was in accord with my original premise.
HomePod is actually not a closed system. Outside apps will be able to interface with HomePod, because even Apple notified developers to make sure that their SiriKit implementations work with HomePod. Just because you would like for Spotify to or whatever app to work in a manner and it does not, or got butt hurt because I kept using Spotify as an example in my actually general topic, doesn't mean HomePod is truly a closed system. If the playback controls of Siri are enabled on HomePod as they are on iOS, then all of the thoughts about not being able to control AirPlay streams using Siri will be moot. I imagine Siri will be able to on HomePod, because Siri can already do so on iOS.
If so, only the deeper items would remain, such as "Siri play Beat It as my dedication to Gameboy70 on Spotify."
But for that there needs to be an insight method / discovery, which I imagine will actually be coming via WWDC. People are too blinded by what they specifically want, to see what Apple might actually do and why. App insight is something that's beneficial to App Developers generally and more important than a mootly redundant "Streaming Control". -- Think outside of your weak Google-fu.
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I don't know that Siri is completely useless.....
So basically it seems likely it will compare favourably with the likes of Sonos, with Siri, so I'm not sure what the problem is. People are free to buy it if they think its going to be good for them - unless it sounds crap, I'm, planning on getting one. Not in spite of it only supporting AM, but precisely because I am an AM subscriber.
And I'm going to be pretty much as happy being able to use my phone as a remote to control the music as using Siri, which I'm not sure I can do with traditional speakers.
That totally defeats the purpose of a voice activated speaker. Apple are building ever higher fences around it's eco system and their products move further and further away from "it just works" as a consequence.
The competition do the opposite and it's companies like Google that are slowly emerging as the new disrupters.
This is true, they are being vague to the point of being obtuse. It’s not really helping them launch this thing when so many questions are left unanswered.
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Literally everyone has said it’s the best sounding speaker in the test. Many stating it’s by far the best speaker in a sub $1000 category – including audiophile magazines and reviewers. And you are going to latch on to the one url quoting a reviewer out of context saying that it’s “lacking”? Yeah, nah.
Unfortunately people narrow their view to substantiate their biases / ideas. A few people have tried to clarify that it wasn't a direct judgment, but he still only sees what he wants to. *sighs* It's silly. Maybe he's trolling, lol.
Apple users have demanded hypocrisy to their benefit for a couple of decades. For example, Microsoft was foolish to allow Office to have an Mac OS compatible... & for a piddly perpetual single digit Mac OS penetration.
Does Google Alexa support Apple Music?
No, but both Alexa and Google support more than their own music services therefore providing more options, and in the case of the Sonos One you can not only use multiple music services but also multiple assistants (Alexa and Google's).
If you're after a good quality speaker made by Apple then this is it, but for a lot of people who want more choice regarding music services and the AI aspect too, this doesn't fit the bill.
I am still unconvinced to any benefit third party music services or “AI” brings. Please make a case.
This is precisely what you cannot do on the HomePod at this time, which you've always been able to do on the Echo from day one. I'm hopeful that it will happen in future, but the current API doesn't support it.
You keep bringing up the fact that "Apple notified developers to make sure that their SiriKit implementations work with HomePod," but if SiriKit doesn't have endpoints for track controls, then that entire domain of applications can't be done—there's no programmatic access. Apps like Things, Fantastical, or Bear will be able to access HomePod directly (these are the types of developers Apple was addressing in their statement), but not Pandora, TuneIn, Spotify, or Google Music. The fact that someone can "say something like 'hey siri - search web for Spotify Steve Earle'," then copy the link, is a workaround for humans, not code.
With Siri on iOS, you can launch a third party music app, and you can emulate the media keys via voice once you've launched content. What you can't do is launch that content via Siri, so saying that most of the features needed are there is like saying a certain car has everything except for an accelerator—well, then it's not a car.
Your single-minded desire, leaves you not realizing that you are addressing to a person that only cares about the fact that apps can access HomePod, thus proving it's not a closed system. Which was the point of my posts. You care more about how the apps you desire to use can access it, but I don't care about that. However, I tried to address that ... but you also seemingly don't understand that SiriKit does not require track controls, because Siri already has it.
"hey siri, play Steve Earle on Spotify"
That does not require track controls. I have no idea why you aren't understanding this basic thing. What is required to execute that is the ability to search within an App, once Siri can actually find and understand that in another app it can easily play it. Because Siri already has the play functionality built in, it just doesn't have the app internal search functionality. Only the latter needs to be available via SiriKit.
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Well, not everyone wants to just use Apple Music. With regards to the Assistant side of things I'm fairly invested in the IoT and have lights (Philips Hue), Hive (heating), cameras (Nest), plugs (Wemo) and a video Doorbell (Ring), however, Siri (via HomeKit) can only control the lights. Up until late 2017 I was all in on getting the HomePod as I wanted a good sounding speaker for the kitchen that I could also use to control devices, check my calendar etc, but when it was delayed I had the opportunity to take a look at an Echo which, granted, won't sound anywhere close to the HomePod, however, on the home automation side of things (which is pretty important to me) can control everything I currently have. So my current solution was to take an existing Sony system I had (which sounds better than an Echo) and buy an echo Dot that plugs into it. These are all out of sight and allow me to request music (from either Amazon Music or Spotify) hands free as well as controlling my various devices all for the sum of £39 (for the Dot). This has since prompted me to but a couple more Echo's to place around the house for the assistant side of things or if I or my wife want to listen to music and can't be bothered to fire up our main system.
Again, I don't doubt the HomePod will sound great (my brother has one pre-ordered so I'll take a look when he has it) but for me personally Apple has been too late to the home automation game and I don't want to sink £300+ into a single speaker that it getting very slow support for HomeKit and even has a kneecapped version of Siri on it (can't check the calendar or make or receive calls).
Maybe one day if they bring out a HomePod Mini, improve Siri and the HomeKit market picks up, I might take another look .
Don't you set your EQ in the device sending the audio to the homepod? I thought those options were available in iTunes...
I am still not convinced digital assistants really matter all that much to the average consumer beyond maybe the very basic stuff (where Siri is more than capable of holding its own in this regard). Or to phrase it another way, the things that google assistant or Alexa excel in over Siri are not the things the majority of users are going to bother with anyways.
As the saying goes - you don't miss what you don't need. Apple is being very cunning here by positioning Siri as a means of improving your music playback experience, which will in turn prime consumers to use Siri more for requesting music and less so for other purposes. Maximise Siri's strengths, while minimising exposure to its weaknesses.
The way I see it, the value of the homepod lies in its A8 chip controlling a series of speakers and microphones. This would in theory allow the homepod to gather information about your home relative to its resting position and tailor specific listening experiences to the end user, in a way that dumb speakers (like those from Sonos) or less capable smart speakers (like those from Alexa and Google) never can.
It's basically AR for the ears. We will have more information as to how well it performs once the homepod is released but in a nutshell, don't underestimate that A8 chip. It was specifically placed there for a reason.
As for why only Apple Music is supported, who knows. Maybe it's because Apple owns and controls Apple Music and so they are able to do some tweaking on the backend to optimise the homepod for the delivery of Apple Music music and vice versa. Maybe they want more people to subscribe to Apple Music and keep users entrenched in the Apple ecosystem. It's probably a little bit of everything.
And I do think the AirPods is a very relevant analogy. On paper, its specs don't seem impressive over what the competition is offering, and in all fairness, I ordered the AirPods on launch day based on a leap of faith. In reality, what I found was that all the various design decisions that went into it, big and small, helped shape its unique user experience. They all came together to solve many of the pain points I had with conventional Bluetooth headphones, from battery life to portability to bluetooth stability. And you would never have guessed all this if we just compared the paper specs of the AirPods alongside other bluetooth headphones.
Same with the homepod. So far, criticism largely revolves around the price tag and Siri. I think these arguments are going to age very poorly once the homepod is released and we have a better understanding of what the homepod can (and cannot) do.
Glad I have been appointed by others
But have not heard this thing and would love to see multiple speakers to improve audio staging. Not bashing it at all ... yet and given the reviews I am looking forward to it. No offense meant to you CK but I do see your point.
Not right now. I’m sure eventually either Apple or some 3rd party company will come up with an interface. I know that the Sonos system has one so I imagine eventually Apple will get something. If Apple doesn’t allow integration using Siri it will end up kind of orphaned.
I see exactly what bridge your on and I am not going to entertain it. Good day sir or maam!
I've never referred to "apps" in general, some of which can access HomePod. I've been talking specifically about music apps, which can't.
I'll have a HomePod on the 9th, so I'll try invoking Siri on the HomePod to "play Steve Earle on Spotify". I'm 100% sure it won't work, but trust me, as a HomePod owner I'd be thrilled to be wrong.
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You are right Siri isn't completely useless but compared to the competition it's far behind and very often get it wrong when I ask for a song, artist, or film soundtrack. Google on the other hand gets that right.
Of course as you already use apple music, not supporting Spotify is not a problem for you and by all means buy one and I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
I would suggest you look at some of the options out there though if what you want is just a WiFi speaker you can control with your phone.
Something like the AudioPro C5
https://www.audiopro.com/product/addon-c5/
will give you a far better sound for less money. You will not get voice control so that is the trade off.
To be honest I don't think the HP will compare well with a Sonos of the same price (Play3 - Play5) but maybe on par with a Sonos One which is only £199. Only time will tell though.