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Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks
- Thread starter VisualForces
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Well, exactly that is the question. If it is only a matter of how the display is "addressed" by the video card, for example if it's only the wrong refresh rate that causes the problem, it might be fixable through a software (i.e. driver) or firmware upgrade. If it is just a matter of build quality or panel design, we can only hope Apple will issue a recall and replace the panel with a newer model.denial said:
That's a popular theory...everyone I've seen that HAD the lines had W8 (designation for the Shanghai plant) as part of the serial number of their laptop. Then again, I don't think I've heard of any of the new 15"s NOT coming from this plant....
Saw a good one today!
I went to an Apple shop today and there was a PB HD 15". The display was perfect, no signs of stripes etc. So this is definitely a DEFECT, say this to Apple Care when you call them.
I'm glad I could send mine back w/o problems...
I went to an Apple shop today and there was a PB HD 15". The display was perfect, no signs of stripes etc. So this is definitely a DEFECT, say this to Apple Care when you call them.
I'm glad I could send mine back w/o problems...
kingstontown said:
Any chance you could confirm the serial number on the one you saw? (Apple menu/About this Mac/More Info)-curious if it's a "W8" serial or if it came from some other plant besides Shanghai.
Thanks
Stats
Some statistics from yesterday on people accessing the test image at crankycat.com:
There were 15 requests from organization 17.x.x.x, which is apple.com, so some people inside of apple are viewing the image.
Data transferred: 527.45 megabytes
Refering sites:
#req URL
517 http://www.macintouch.com/
181 http://discussions.info.apple.com/
93 https://forums.macrumors.com/
70 http://macintouch.com/
48 http://forums.macnn.com/
29 http://www.fredmiranda.com/
18 http://www.powerbook-fr.com/
5 http://www.mac-forums.com/
2 http://hol.dk/
2 http://www.hol.dk/
2 http://discussions.apple.com/
2 http://mac-forums.com/
1 http://discusssearch.info.apple.com/
1 http://aimexpress.aim.com/
Some statistics from yesterday on people accessing the test image at crankycat.com:
There were 15 requests from organization 17.x.x.x, which is apple.com, so some people inside of apple are viewing the image.
Data transferred: 527.45 megabytes
Refering sites:
#req URL
517 http://www.macintouch.com/
181 http://discussions.info.apple.com/
93 https://forums.macrumors.com/
70 http://macintouch.com/
48 http://forums.macnn.com/
29 http://www.fredmiranda.com/
18 http://www.powerbook-fr.com/
5 http://www.mac-forums.com/
2 http://hol.dk/
2 http://www.hol.dk/
2 http://discussions.apple.com/
2 http://mac-forums.com/
1 http://discusssearch.info.apple.com/
1 http://aimexpress.aim.com/
Steve Lundgren said:
Intensity of the effect definitely seems to vary. A user from a German forum just sent me some pictures of his. They were quite blurry, and you couldn't tell easily that the lines were there. There were lines, but they seemed to be very minor. Then again, this could have been due to lighting conditions or so.
Just got back from the Apple Store in Danbury CT and
Just got back from the Apple Store in Danbury CT and checked out two W8 week 41 15” PowerBooks. Used the test image with the orange squares, the ESPN logo, as well as the standard Apple blue desktop and random gray background screens. Results: zero, nada, nothing wrong. My wife nor myself or the sales person could find anything wrong with the two 15" PBs there. And we had our noses touching the screens at times using every possible angle of the screens. We even compared them to the new 17 inch PowerBooks side by side and found the screens look identical when comparing detail, brightness, contrast and potential artifacts. Actually the 15” screens (and 17s) were quite impressive to say the least. When questioned, the sales person there had not heard of the horizontal lines problem with the 15” PBs. I’ll still be ordering a 15” for my daughter in college as an x-mas present.
[edit]
This is why we went to the store and looked for ourselves" It was this thread here at MacRumors along with the comment below from this 15" PB review: http://daringfireball.net/2005/11/full_metal_jacket:
"The MacInTouch report also contains several reports from readers who perceive distracting horizontal lines between each row of pixels on screen. I notice no such thing. Whatever the issue is here, it seems to be quite subjective. Those who perceive it seem to see it in every 15-inch PowerBook, not just in one particular (i.e. possibly defective) unit. So if you’re thinking about getting one but are concerned about this “I see distracting horizontal lines” issue, I suggest looking at one in person at an Apple Store before ordering. This is also sound advice for anyone concerned about the new machines’ denser screen resolutions."
Just got back from the Apple Store in Danbury CT and checked out two W8 week 41 15” PowerBooks. Used the test image with the orange squares, the ESPN logo, as well as the standard Apple blue desktop and random gray background screens. Results: zero, nada, nothing wrong. My wife nor myself or the sales person could find anything wrong with the two 15" PBs there. And we had our noses touching the screens at times using every possible angle of the screens. We even compared them to the new 17 inch PowerBooks side by side and found the screens look identical when comparing detail, brightness, contrast and potential artifacts. Actually the 15” screens (and 17s) were quite impressive to say the least. When questioned, the sales person there had not heard of the horizontal lines problem with the 15” PBs. I’ll still be ordering a 15” for my daughter in college as an x-mas present.
[edit]
This is why we went to the store and looked for ourselves" It was this thread here at MacRumors along with the comment below from this 15" PB review: http://daringfireball.net/2005/11/full_metal_jacket:
"The MacInTouch report also contains several reports from readers who perceive distracting horizontal lines between each row of pixels on screen. I notice no such thing. Whatever the issue is here, it seems to be quite subjective. Those who perceive it seem to see it in every 15-inch PowerBook, not just in one particular (i.e. possibly defective) unit. So if you’re thinking about getting one but are concerned about this “I see distracting horizontal lines” issue, I suggest looking at one in person at an Apple Store before ordering. This is also sound advice for anyone concerned about the new machines’ denser screen resolutions."
I went into the Apple Store in Birmingham UK, and it was apparant on the 2 display models.
One of the sales guys was aware of the "scan lines" as he called them, and said that it would only be an issue to a select few (pro-sumers)
I went to the genius bar with mine (purchased from the store 3 weeks ago)
Showed them the issue and they acknowledged it was not right, and if I was using it for design, they could understand my concerns. I had five of the "Genius's" inquisitively look at it and all of them could see it.
BTW. Mine was part of the same batch as the ones on display.
He went out the back and checked the serial numbers on the stock and they were all from the same week/manufacturing plant.
He opened a new box and powered up to check and it and yes it emitted the same problem.
He immediately DOA'd them both (even the stock one opened to check) and gave me a refund.
He advised that Powerbooks were not a big shifter and new ones may not be in for a while. So I may just wait until the new year, its a shame as I am going to miss it.
Hopefully, latest shipments or ones in manufacturing have been sorted out.
Just thought I should let you guys know!!
One of the sales guys was aware of the "scan lines" as he called them, and said that it would only be an issue to a select few (pro-sumers)
I went to the genius bar with mine (purchased from the store 3 weeks ago)
Showed them the issue and they acknowledged it was not right, and if I was using it for design, they could understand my concerns. I had five of the "Genius's" inquisitively look at it and all of them could see it.
BTW. Mine was part of the same batch as the ones on display.
He went out the back and checked the serial numbers on the stock and they were all from the same week/manufacturing plant.
He opened a new box and powered up to check and it and yes it emitted the same problem.
He immediately DOA'd them both (even the stock one opened to check) and gave me a refund.
He advised that Powerbooks were not a big shifter and new ones may not be in for a while. So I may just wait until the new year, its a shame as I am going to miss it.
Hopefully, latest shipments or ones in manufacturing have been sorted out.
Just thought I should let you guys know!!
DSL Steve said:
This MacInTouch article and one on Spymac are the closest things to Nano-like media exposure for this issue that I've seen outside the Mac enthusiast sites. I would agree that the lines do seem like those Magic Eye pictures in the sense that some people can pick them out immediately and others just can't.
Either my eyes are going bad over starting at my screen at 2" away, or I actually have genuine improvement after resetting the NVRAM via Open Firmware and resetting the PMU (since the PMU controls refresh rate settings in memory). The lines *SEEM* much less prominent to me after doing this, even at Apple's default 1.8 gamma/native monitor white point display settings at full screen brightness.
MimUK said:
At least the Genius there admitted there was a problem! At the store in Oak Brook, Illinois the Genius would not admit there was a problem. I made him look at both display models and he didn't see it on them either (and it was there for sure). Then I made him look at a 17" display and go back to the 15" and he claimed "they looked exactly the same". Then he started to tell me that it was normal for there to be lines in monitors and that they all have them!!! I started to raise my voice and make a scene so he let me exchange it for an iMac but had I not been a jerk I would not have gotten my money back
This is horrible business practice and the more I read this thread the more I think I may be doing the wrong thing by using Apple products I hope they admit the problem company wide soon and take care of their customers.my example image
I'm just about to send in my Powerbook into Applecare to be "repaired". I have placed an image that makes the lines obvious as the background to the admin login so that they won't miss it.
Here is the link:
http://www.ianumeda.com/101/KIF_3383-screen-lines(color+bw_split).jpg
I put together an example image to illustrate the difference in lumiocity between the horizontal rows of pixels. I took a photograph with my digital camera off of the screen of my 15" powerbook while it was in the "boot options" screen, apparently outside the mac OS (it's one of the tests that the applecare reps have you do). I split the image between the normal color state and an enhanced monochrome view that accentuates the difference in luminocity between the alternating pixel rows. Please spread this link far and wide.
-ian
I'm just about to send in my Powerbook into Applecare to be "repaired". I have placed an image that makes the lines obvious as the background to the admin login so that they won't miss it.
Here is the link:
http://www.ianumeda.com/101/KIF_3383-screen-lines(color+bw_split).jpg
I put together an example image to illustrate the difference in lumiocity between the horizontal rows of pixels. I took a photograph with my digital camera off of the screen of my 15" powerbook while it was in the "boot options" screen, apparently outside the mac OS (it's one of the tests that the applecare reps have you do). I split the image between the normal color state and an enhanced monochrome view that accentuates the difference in luminocity between the alternating pixel rows. Please spread this link far and wide.
-ian
I made a point of mentioning to the product specialist that I spoke to that the lines were present on the Apple Hardware Test screens, which are also outside the OS. They're also present on the grey Apple logo on the white boot splash screen.
Here's a copy of the letter I am including with my Powerbook when I return it, both as a text file on the desktop and in paper form...
APPLE TECHNICIANS/ENGINEERS-PLEASE READ re: case 55055154!
The admin password for this Powerbook is apple123.
Please view the Photoshop file "pb15_problems.png" included on the desktop of this laptop, both with an external CRT not attached to this notebook, and on the laptop itself. You should be able to note the following:
1)CRT viewing: The image of the child on the right and the Apple background on the right are what a sizable portion of the owners of the new 15" DL Powerbooks are seeing on their screens when viewing any photographic image. This "line" effect is visible in Safari or IPhoto without any additional enhancement. These lines also create a strobing effect when scrolling
through text, causing eye strain. We would expect the image to correspond to the appearance of the child on the left (i.e. no lines)
2)Viewing the image on the laptop itself: The lines will be apparent on both children. If the position of the image on the screen is shifted vertically up or down a single pixel, the lines on the child on the right with disappear completely.
If Photoshop is not available for you to install for diagnostic reasons, below is a link to a website hosting the image for viewing in a web browser:
http://crankycat.com/pb15_problems.png
These lines, on my Powerbook, are also evident in the following places:
1) on the grey Apple icon on the white bootup splash screen
2) on the Apple Hardware test screen, as noted in my case number
3) on any blue and/or grey tinged desktop screens
4) any photographs viewed in Safari, IPhoto, Preview, or Quicktime
The lines are still evident on changing to any of the possible resolutions in System Preferences/Display, on using different color calibrations in System Preferences/Display, after applying all available updates to the 10.4.2 image installed on shipment of the Powerbook, after resetting NVRAM and the PMU of the Powerbook, and after trying all available brightness settings.
The lines are *NOT* evident on any LCD or CRT connected to the Powerbook's DVI port.
My Powerbook has been viewed by multiple people not aware of any outstanding line issues with this model, and TO A PERSON, they have all noticed the lines evident on my screen.
Multiple Powerbooks, all originating from the Shanghai plant (W8 serial numbers) within weeks 40-46, have been affected by this issue. I am aware of two cases where affected Powerbooks were sent back to Apple and then returned to their owners with the lines still in evidence on their screens.
Due to the above research, and after correspondence with other Powerbook users affected by this problem, I believe the issue lies in the LCD screen used in the affected laptops. As all the affected Powerbooks I am personally aware of were shipped from the Shanghai plant, it is unclear whether these screens are part of a defective batch shipped to that plant for assembly, or if this issue extends to other new 15" DL Powerbooks assembled in other plants as well.
Reference material and other items I have cited in this document, including some serial numbers affected by this issue, can be found at http://15inpbscreen.appleplace.com/.
Please contact me regarding the results of any diagnostic work performed on this Powerbook prior to sending it back. I am available from Mon-Fri 8:30-5 PM Eastern time at xxx-xxx-xxxx, and at other times at yyy-yyy-yyyy. My contact information should also be listed in my case history.
If the technicians assigned to this case determine that they are not able to view the lines, that these lines are normal or within specifications for this model, or that they found no issues with the Powerbook, please refer this case to Client Care before returning the laptop as I will wish to pursue returning the unit for a refund.
This will be the seventh Apple laptop I have owned, and the first with any serious hardware issues. I am confident that, despite information provided by the examples that Apple is not aware of any customer concerns regarding these display defects, Apple support will be able to use the information provided here to accurately diagnose this problem and provide a
satisfactory solution for all the affected customers.
APPLE TECHNICIANS/ENGINEERS-PLEASE READ re: case 55055154!
The admin password for this Powerbook is apple123.
Please view the Photoshop file "pb15_problems.png" included on the desktop of this laptop, both with an external CRT not attached to this notebook, and on the laptop itself. You should be able to note the following:
1)CRT viewing: The image of the child on the right and the Apple background on the right are what a sizable portion of the owners of the new 15" DL Powerbooks are seeing on their screens when viewing any photographic image. This "line" effect is visible in Safari or IPhoto without any additional enhancement. These lines also create a strobing effect when scrolling
through text, causing eye strain. We would expect the image to correspond to the appearance of the child on the left (i.e. no lines)
2)Viewing the image on the laptop itself: The lines will be apparent on both children. If the position of the image on the screen is shifted vertically up or down a single pixel, the lines on the child on the right with disappear completely.
If Photoshop is not available for you to install for diagnostic reasons, below is a link to a website hosting the image for viewing in a web browser:
http://crankycat.com/pb15_problems.png
These lines, on my Powerbook, are also evident in the following places:
1) on the grey Apple icon on the white bootup splash screen
2) on the Apple Hardware test screen, as noted in my case number
3) on any blue and/or grey tinged desktop screens
4) any photographs viewed in Safari, IPhoto, Preview, or Quicktime
The lines are still evident on changing to any of the possible resolutions in System Preferences/Display, on using different color calibrations in System Preferences/Display, after applying all available updates to the 10.4.2 image installed on shipment of the Powerbook, after resetting NVRAM and the PMU of the Powerbook, and after trying all available brightness settings.
The lines are *NOT* evident on any LCD or CRT connected to the Powerbook's DVI port.
My Powerbook has been viewed by multiple people not aware of any outstanding line issues with this model, and TO A PERSON, they have all noticed the lines evident on my screen.
Multiple Powerbooks, all originating from the Shanghai plant (W8 serial numbers) within weeks 40-46, have been affected by this issue. I am aware of two cases where affected Powerbooks were sent back to Apple and then returned to their owners with the lines still in evidence on their screens.
Due to the above research, and after correspondence with other Powerbook users affected by this problem, I believe the issue lies in the LCD screen used in the affected laptops. As all the affected Powerbooks I am personally aware of were shipped from the Shanghai plant, it is unclear whether these screens are part of a defective batch shipped to that plant for assembly, or if this issue extends to other new 15" DL Powerbooks assembled in other plants as well.
Reference material and other items I have cited in this document, including some serial numbers affected by this issue, can be found at http://15inpbscreen.appleplace.com/.
Please contact me regarding the results of any diagnostic work performed on this Powerbook prior to sending it back. I am available from Mon-Fri 8:30-5 PM Eastern time at xxx-xxx-xxxx, and at other times at yyy-yyy-yyyy. My contact information should also be listed in my case history.
If the technicians assigned to this case determine that they are not able to view the lines, that these lines are normal or within specifications for this model, or that they found no issues with the Powerbook, please refer this case to Client Care before returning the laptop as I will wish to pursue returning the unit for a refund.
This will be the seventh Apple laptop I have owned, and the first with any serious hardware issues. I am confident that, despite information provided by the examples that Apple is not aware of any customer concerns regarding these display defects, Apple support will be able to use the information provided here to accurately diagnose this problem and provide a
satisfactory solution for all the affected customers.
Apple store in Tysons Corner, VA
I just returned my 15" Powerbook at the Apple Store in Tysons Corner, VA. As soon as I showed the Genius the "crankycat" picture he immediately agreed there was a problem and I got a full refund.
I'm hoping this issue is resolved quickly so that I can get another one!
I just returned my 15" Powerbook at the Apple Store in Tysons Corner, VA. As soon as I showed the Genius the "crankycat" picture he immediately agreed there was a problem and I got a full refund.
I'm hoping this issue is resolved quickly so that I can get another one!
I went to the Apple Store in Alpharetta, GA today and was told that the lines are a "battery saving feature" by one of the guys there. That every other line was dimmed to conserve the battery. I asked if there was a way to turn this feature off and he didn't seem to think so.
This is the first time I've heard that explanation, anyone else heard that?
The lines on the display models were very very faint and I could only see them when a few inches away from the screen. I assume other screens have more pronounced lines b/c I think I could live with the one I saw.
This is the first time I've heard that explanation, anyone else heard that?
The lines on the display models were very very faint and I could only see them when a few inches away from the screen. I assume other screens have more pronounced lines b/c I think I could live with the one I saw.
That's nonsense. He obviously has no idea what he's talking about. The backlight (which consumes the most power) will illuminate the entire display. It makes no difference how much of the emitted light an individual pixel will allow to shine through. It's sad to see that Apple is starting to lie on people and trying to sell an obvious defect as a feature. And those people are supposed to be "geniuses"?zooey74 said:
netb0y said:
Were you inside the 14 days return period?
I bought mine there too (more than 14 days ago) and I really don't know what to do about all this... I need a notebook for my work (not graphics) but I hate to have an inferior product at a superior price. sigh...