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Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks

As others are finding: Yes, the lines may appear subtle to some, but they are there, and at least to those of us that find them a pain in the @rse, well, they are a pain in the @rse.

Just so you know - I can see them in pictures at 18inches. But the affect is certainly worse for me on thumbnails - mostly because you naturally come closer to see the images and/or squint/concentrate your vision into a small focal area. e.g. photo thumbnails.

Sadly, I agree with lotkin on all three points below.

This machine is marketed as a pro tool. It is not expected to have a mediocre display.

loktin said:
The new one has the same problem but this time I'll just deal with it. I really have no other solution (need mac for editing, 17 too big to lug on site), so I'll wait until a fix come along. I guess for the time being I'll refrian from getting closer than 24" to the display. The good news is that apple seems like they're admitting the problem and the next logical step is to provide a fix.

The lines may not seem obvious to the normal eye, but a quick comparision with the 17" really shows how flawed the screen is. Plus when I see scan lines during editing, it usually means a bad compression rate so it bugs especially for me.

This isn't a BMW with a screw hole in the arm rest, its a BMW with permanent bird poop on the windshield. You can choose to ignore it, but it doesn't sit well with me to pay top dollars for a flawed product. I expect it from emachine, but not from a "pro" company charging "pro" prices.
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I'm really hoping...

mine doesn't have it.... ordered it monday, haven't recieved a serial yet. I'm also recieving a 30" ACD though, so if it's annoying, it will only be when i'm on the road, hopefully

lol

i hope some more chime in without the problem... if Melkor ordered their PB on the 1st, hopefully mine will be good too...

I really feel for all of you with issues.. i went through this thing 3 yrs ago with my final rev Ti. It had all kinds of weird problems. after like 3 replacements, i finally got a jewel.. it's been flawless for three years.

the thing that annoys me is i ordered this with the display for the specific reason that when i get my applecare that the display will be covered in it as well.... but they have to be on the same invoice, so if i send the powerbook back... the cinema has to go too.... whata pain. This happened last time because i ordered the 22in with the Ti.

Please Gods, hook me up!


Good luck to all of you waiting for a resolution to this *****...
 
I;m not convinced that Melkor's images are detailed enough to see the scan lines. I think on digi photos of my screeen at that resolution/distance, It would be hard to pick them out.

To demonstrate that a screen doesn't have lines to those of us browsing the forums, we need to see images where rows of pixels are visible - like this one from my screen - note that my desktop has a photo on it - not a default blue image.

loktin said:
I was just going to say Melkor's images clearly shows the lines....until I checked it out on my external. Damn it....the lines are from my pb display as it looks flawless on my external lcd.

Your display looks perfect...nothing like the ones with problems. Which week is your pb?
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question...

do you see the lines when you have an image open over your desk top? like...if you were to open safari and go to a website with an image, do yuo see the same lines or is it strictly a desktop issue...?

may sound like a silly question but i'm curious.
 
Spectrum said:
I;m not convinced that Melkor's images are detailed enough to see the scan lines. I think on digi photos of my screeen at that resolution/distance, It would be hard to pick them out.

To demonstrate that a screen doesn't have lines to those of us browsing the forums, we need to see images where rows of pixels are visible - like this one from my screen - note that my desktop has a photo on it - not a default blue image.
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Just wanted to let you guys know that Melkor sent me a personal message already telling me that his screen does have the lines. He says, however, that the lines are extremely hard to pick out. I asked him to confirm this here in the thread so people won't be disappointed.
 
QCassidy352 said:
thanks a bunch Melkor. I'd say your screen shows no signs of the defect whatsoever - congrats! :D Nice to see that it's not a universal problem.

Thanks also to those who found amazon's support # for me. :eek: Regarding their 30 full-refund policy: that applies to *opened* computers?? I assumed that was only for something not taken out of its box... if its for opened computers then that is very generous indeed!!
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Yes, that applies to opened computers too. I've returned computers and other electronic items (phones, ipods etc) in the past and never a question. Some have been defective and others were just not what I wanted. In fact, I just returned a powerbook yesterday - opened
 
Wombert said:
Just wanted to let you guys know that Melkor sent me a personal message already telling me that his screen does have the lines. He says, however, that the lines are extremely hard to pick out. I asked him to confirm this here in the thread so people won't be disappointed.
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Hmm. Well, if the lines on my PB are as hard to pick out as on Melkor's PB, I think I'll be quite happy. I mean, if they are present on his PB, they must be extremely faint.

Thanks, PDE, great to know!
 
What about games?

Anyone noticing the same line problem when playing a game (such as World of Warcraft or The Sims)?
 
i had this on my old Thinkpad T40p... not a problem...

I had a similar thing on my old Thinkpad T40p (over a year ago), it seemed to be a powersaving isssue there which could be turned off and on in some prefs window, lower refresh rate I think (or something like that).

If it's like that all the time then there may be a problem, it's likely to be a setting somewhere... if not then just watch the next OS update!


VisualForces said:
I received my new 15" PB a few days ago and I can notice faint horizontal lines on every other row of pixels. I didn't notice this on the model before this or even the new iBooks, but working with photos, graphics, and video is aggravating with these lines.

I called Apple Support and they seem to think this is a limited issue. I'm sending it in to get repaired or to get a new screen put on it...stinks when it's 4 days old and I'm already getting it "repaired" :(

Anyone else out there notice this with their new PowerBooks? Do the PBs in actual Apple Stores have these lines?

*EDIT* Here's a pic of the lines...you can see them on the default blue OSX background.
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Very Depressed Boy :(

Well, after hustling the cash together and dreaming of a powerbook for a LOOooooOONG time I finally put the order in last week. I have been happily dreaming about my new comp and grown increasingly frustrated by the wait. It was all ok though as Christmas was coming early here!

I followed this board pretty closely tonight and I feel completely deflated. All I have to look forward to is taking it out of the box, admiring how almost perfect it is, and then sending it back. Nightmare, I am very disappointed in Apple's response to this thing. Point blank denying the problem is no way to treat some of the most loyal consumers in the world.

How can they expect people to continue paying these prices to receive a sub-standard product. The worst thing is their response, hey its only a small problem so its not a problem. It's pathetic really, very poor show. I am going to bed now and I will try not to think of my box which is in Holland right now by the way. Just arrived from, you guessed it, Shanghai. Should be here in the UK imminently. I'm not sure I will bother checking the delivery tracker tomorrow.

What a crap, crap thing. I hope Apple get shaken up for this. To think I was telling my old dear tonight that if she is buying my sis a music player this christmas she can't ignore the fact that no matter what you buy, the bottom line is it's not an iPod. So better get an iPod. Sure a little bit more expensive but the customer care is great! I mean I'm sure they won't put up a fight when taking my new computer back, but thats not good enough this time. They shouldnt still be taking peoples money and shipping them.

Well, bed time...

One very unhappy customer :(





(unless............ I believe in miracles Santa) :)
 
ybakos said:
1) Horizontal lines
2) Static-like noise from the graphics subsystem
3) "Light Saber" noise when moving/rotating the unit
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Whoa, I know what you mean by the light saber thing. Is that not supposed to happen? Somehow I thought it was associated with the sudden motion sensor?

One other quick question about those of you that have gotten replacements. If all of your stuff is on the hard drive of the "lined" computer, can you still just give them that and walk out with a new one? Or was that because it was in the 14 day period. (I'm already out of that)
 
I;d jsuit like to conferm , that my powerbook does have lines. I really don't want to get peoples hopes up too much. THE LINES ARE THERE! but they are very subtle. Ill post more pics as soon as I get the chance. (hopefully tomorrow)

edit: wombert, i should have confermed this earlier i know, but i was busy. sorry
 
Melkor said:
I;d jsuit like to conferm , that my powerbook does have lines. I really don't want to get peoples hopes up too much. THE LINES ARE THERE! but they are very subtle. Ill post more pics as soon as I get the chance. (hopefully tomorrow)

edit: wombert, i should have confermed this earlier i know, but i was busy. sorry
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Judging by the pics you posted earlier, they can't be too bad. If you gotta strain to see 'em I can't imagine it's a big deal...

Another thought - it's almost good that all 15" PBs seem to have this problem because that lends support to the proposition that this is due to something like the graphics card sending the wrong signal, or another firmware problem. If that's true, apple can release an update that fixes this at some point.

On the other hand, if this is a (large) bad batch or something, then it's more likely a hardware issue, and replacement is the only alternative.
 
>>>I;m not convinced that Melkor's images are detailed enough to see the scan lines. I think on digi photos of my screeen at that resolution/distance, It would be hard to pick them out.

>>>To demonstrate that a screen doesn't have lines to those of us browsing the forums, we need to see images where rows of pixels are visible - like this one from my screen - note that my desktop has a photo on it - not a default blue image.

Umm, stop it with these mega close up pictures it's really hard to tell the scan line issue apart from the normal for LCD screen door effect.
Good way to test for refresh rate error would be to load linux onto the computer.
 
QCassidy352 said:
On the other hand, if this is a (large) bad batch or something, then it's more likely a hardware issue, and replacement is the only alternative.
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You give Apple too much credit, sadly...

I'd say what Apple will do is exactly what they are doing now. Nothing.
 
Yeah, if yonah powerbook will be out in just january... why would they do anything.
 
Morn said:
Yeah, if yonah powerbook will be out in just january... why would they do anything.
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They might do something if enough people voice their concern in public. It's very bad for their image, and thus sales, to constantly have major quality control issues such as with the ipod nano and powerbooks. Apple will try to minimize that bad publicity.


I think they will do something about the problem. The question is when and how.
 
It's never going to get fixed. They're just going to claim it's normal. The fact is most people won't notice it unless you pointed it out to them, and even then, some people still won't know what you're talking about. Some people will say they don't have the problem even though they do. That's the way things go in my experience.
 
>>I think they will do something about the problem. The question is when and how.

Yeah by fixing it on the so called rev a yonah powerbook :p
 
Morn said:
>>I think they will do something about the problem. The question is when and how.

Yeah by fixing it on the so called rev a yonah powerbook :p
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Which will probably suffer from many other 'normal behaviours' that will dissapear when rev b arrive at the end of next year. :rolleyes:
 
MacRumorUser said:
Which will probably suffer from many other 'normal behaviours' that will dissapear when rev b arrive at the end of next year. :rolleyes:
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Not necessarily. Rev A is not a prototype you know, you're overreacting. Bugs can occur in any revision. Any serious bug with Rev A will quickly show up in this forum anyway. :p
 
In no way do I support Apple's silence. However, if we think unemotionally about it, this is not something that can be solved overnight for them. They need to know if it is a widespread problem (which it seems to be), then they need to understand what is causing the problem, come up with a fix and, if it's a hardware fix make sure that they have enough resources to deal with the massive amounts of powerbooks that will need repair. If it's a software fix, they need to test it properly first before distributing it to customers.

I guess my point is that it's been less than a month since these were introduced and Apple probably wasn't aware of the problem until people started becoming more vocal in the beginning of November. That means it's been less than three weeks. I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt here - we wouldn't want them to rush out a fix that causes other problems.

Having said that, I do think Apple should simply acknowledge that there is a problem and state that they are working on a fix.
 
I expect apple to try and keep this quiet and fix it on the yonah powerbook if rumors are true it's only 2 months away. 2 months is probably how long it would take to fix the problem, so why bother when you have a new powebook coming out.
Hell I just get the feeling that these new laptops were just a rush to finish and existing powerpc project they had going before it wouldn't be needed.
 
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