I just returned by 14day old 15" Powerbook due to the line issue. I told the customer service rep at the apple store why i was returning it, and he gave me no problem at all. I didn't even need to load cranky cat. He just looked at the screen and said, "Oh you mean the lines going accross the screen, yeah i see them, thats weird." I then tried to calibrate the screen to get rid of them, and when he was unsuccessful, he returned it without charging me a restocking fee. It was actually very painless, I guess I got really lucky.
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Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks
- Thread starter VisualForces
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The momentum on this issue is dying down in every forum I read. For all the complaints, there are few people joining in the chorus now. Even the online petition that is in this thread has less then 200 people signing it. I'm afraid all of us who have lines are going to be stuck with them.
PeterKG said:
Probably true, the store I visited this afternoon got the keyboard locked on every PB HR 15" on display, in order to forbid customers to change the background.. even the 17" have been installed far away from the 15". No way to compare between flawed 15" screens and 17". And the voices are less and less perceptible in the forums.
In the meantime, we will know for sure if Apple has really decided to do something about it or not when 10.4.4 is released. A few days from now if we believe the rumors.
generik said:
Rationality? You're confusing realism with pessimism, as so many due. Rationality requires WEIGHING two opposing viewpoints, CONSIDERING the evidence set by both sides, and then making a decision based on the two of them. From everything you've said, all you've considered are the sides AGAINST Apple, and none for it.
Your figures on the M chips are dubious to begin with, as tests have shown that Pentium Ms are generally equal or only slightly faster than G4s. With Rosetta, they are going to be slower. They will NOT put a dual core into the new iBooks unless they put a much better one into new Powerbooks, or they discontinue PBs entirely. It would be stupid, plain and simple, to do this.
Look, you said it yourself that not enough users are noticing the lines to make stink so Apple will notice. Do you know what that also means? The resale values of these computers will NOT be low as a result of a problem that no one knows about. And if the Intel switch goes badly, if anything they will go UP in value for the first few months. (You may notice the iPod mini is more valuable than the nano at the moment).
You have now and have always had a good point about the "Apple doesn't have to fix this, and it's naive to assume that they will," but the reason I call you negative is because you are, plain and simple. You are extremely biased towards Intel, and extremely negative towards both the G4 and Apple in general. You're just as much an extremist as the guy who says that all Apple computers are uniformly faster and more powerful than all PCs. The only difference between you and that guy is that you happen to be more intelligent, eloquent, and long-winded. And yet here you are, claiming to be the voice of reason.
Oh, and on that "nothing that iBooks can't do"? Ever heard of Aperture?
generik said:
If -like me- you don't feel bothered by the "lines", than this computer is not overpriced at all! 2K is about what you pay for a top of the line Sony vaio or similar. I paid more than 3K for my first powerbook (Ti 667) and it had more issues than this one. E.g. paint chipping ver badly!; very high temperature; hinges, etc.
Getting today the top of the line PowerBook, loaded with many more features (naturally), and at more than 30% lower price is a good deal to me.
My experience with the lines was very brief since I always calibrate the LCD before even opening any apps. So, what after reading this and others threads ended up like an apparent issue, it appeared to me at first like a very fine and subtle texture that I presupposed was a characteristic of the display itself. Looks like I was wrong?...
I can understand that people who do pixel-per-pixel work are not happy with the screen, but I also think that it's a minority. Most of the new HD PB owners that don't even read forums (10's of thousands worlwide) are just perfectly happy with their Books and not aware of any problem with the screen.
Now, if The returns and/or complaints are enough to push Apple to issue a fix, than this will certainly be welcome! Why not!! The better, the better
Cheers,
Pablo
Meyvn said:
It is extremely ironic that the one application you named.. is the very one that'd depend on having a GOOD SCREEN to work with. But nevermind the screen, let's look at Aperture's minimum requirements.
* Power Mac G5 with a 1.8 gigahertz (GHz) or faster PowerPC G5 processor
* 15- or 17-inch PowerBook G4 with a 1.25 GHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor
* 17- or 20-inch iMac G5 with a 1.8 GHz or faster PowerPC G5 processor
Don't you find it funny that a 1.25Ghz PB is supposedly as powerful as a 1.8Ghz G5? Oh wait, even the latest iBooks have a 1.33Ghz in them.
What does it mean? Artificial market segmentation that's all!
Perhaps the only thing stopping an iBook is the weaker Radeon 9550, is it core image capable? Yes. Incidentally it is not listed on the required specifications, oh how convenient.
Until someone can enlighten me as to how a sub-1.8Ghz G5 can't run Aperture and I will tell you why an iBook can't do the same despite the specifications.
generik said:
I never said Apple's minimum requirements made sense. I merely said that running Aperture on an iBook is impossible, given its pathetic 32MB of graphics memory, compared to the PowerBook's 128MB. Oh, and though the bright lines are annoying as hell to some, they're not nearly as important in Aperture as they would be in say, Photoshop. The crispness of the monitor itself is not actually affected by the brightness issues.
FLASH!!!.....The Latest Word
Just picked this up from that corporate forum:
"Scott Denman
From: Austin, TX
Official Word from Apple Regarding Lines
Posted: Dec 23, 2005 3:22 PM"
"After calling AppleCare in hopes of learning more about these horizontal lines, I have learned the following.
Apple is aware of an "effect" that is present on all new 15" PowerBooks (higher resolution, Dual-Layer superdrive model.) They did not call it a problem, yet, but there is an internal investigation going on to determine the cause of the lines, find a solution, and determine if the problem is something Apple has the ability to do something about.
Because it is an ongoing investigation, they can not give any sort of hint on whether Apple is going to replace the displays, or if they do, when.
I encourage everyone with one of these new PowerBooks to call Apple, and let them know that you want the problem fixed. I also suggest for everyone to sign this petition, to show Apple that we want our PowerBooks fixed: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?applepb&1
The problem is not a software problem, not a video card problem, or a firmware problem. I was told by AppleCare that it was a physical "issue" with the screen itself. This means that unless you have found a way to physically replace the screen, you have not fixed the problem.
The advice the AppleCare operator gave me, was to return the PowerBook if I was not ok with the lines, and Apple had not announced any sort of fix before the return period expires. I also suggest to everyone who is not pleased with their new PowerBooks to return them if possible, and wait until Apple fixes the problem, or go with a different computer (Apple or not.)
I've signed the petition, sent feedback to Apple (http://www.apple.com/feedback/powerbook.html), and called AppleCare numerous times to voice my dissatisfaction with the screens on these new PowerBooks. If there is no word on a fix by January 6th, my PowerBook is going back for good. If you can spare the time, and your PowerBook is not critical to earning a living, I suggest that you do the same. The only way to ensure that Apple will do anything to address this issue is by being persistent and unrelenting.
If you are satisfied with the lines, or do not see them, then enjoy your new PowerBooks, but be aware that Apple has classified these lines as an issue with ALL 15" DL-SD PowerBooks."
At last, at last.......!!! I always said the South shall rise again!!!!
DIXIE
Just picked this up from that corporate forum:
"Scott Denman
From: Austin, TX
Official Word from Apple Regarding Lines
Posted: Dec 23, 2005 3:22 PM"
"After calling AppleCare in hopes of learning more about these horizontal lines, I have learned the following.
Apple is aware of an "effect" that is present on all new 15" PowerBooks (higher resolution, Dual-Layer superdrive model.) They did not call it a problem, yet, but there is an internal investigation going on to determine the cause of the lines, find a solution, and determine if the problem is something Apple has the ability to do something about.
Because it is an ongoing investigation, they can not give any sort of hint on whether Apple is going to replace the displays, or if they do, when.
I encourage everyone with one of these new PowerBooks to call Apple, and let them know that you want the problem fixed. I also suggest for everyone to sign this petition, to show Apple that we want our PowerBooks fixed: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?applepb&1
The problem is not a software problem, not a video card problem, or a firmware problem. I was told by AppleCare that it was a physical "issue" with the screen itself. This means that unless you have found a way to physically replace the screen, you have not fixed the problem.
The advice the AppleCare operator gave me, was to return the PowerBook if I was not ok with the lines, and Apple had not announced any sort of fix before the return period expires. I also suggest to everyone who is not pleased with their new PowerBooks to return them if possible, and wait until Apple fixes the problem, or go with a different computer (Apple or not.)
I've signed the petition, sent feedback to Apple (http://www.apple.com/feedback/powerbook.html), and called AppleCare numerous times to voice my dissatisfaction with the screens on these new PowerBooks. If there is no word on a fix by January 6th, my PowerBook is going back for good. If you can spare the time, and your PowerBook is not critical to earning a living, I suggest that you do the same. The only way to ensure that Apple will do anything to address this issue is by being persistent and unrelenting.
If you are satisfied with the lines, or do not see them, then enjoy your new PowerBooks, but be aware that Apple has classified these lines as an issue with ALL 15" DL-SD PowerBooks."
At last, at last.......!!! I always said the South shall rise again!!!!
DIXIE
I think I'm returning mine.
I just got it a few days ago, and today transfered some pics from my iMac to my photo library and ... the lines are way more noticeable than they ever were!
I can't see them while using Safari or Mail, which is what I've used the most so far; but it really sucks that the lines are way more noticeable while viewing pictures.
I really hope that they come up with a solution to this within the next few days, or if it's a software issue and it can be updated.
Otherwise, I won't keep the PB.
Hate to let it go; but I just can't justify to keep a product that I won't be 100% happy with because of those damn lines.
I just got it a few days ago, and today transfered some pics from my iMac to my photo library and
... the lines are way more noticeable than they ever were!I can't see them while using Safari or Mail, which is what I've used the most so far; but it really sucks that the lines are way more noticeable while viewing pictures.
I really hope that they come up with a solution to this within the next few days, or if it's a software issue and it can be updated.
Otherwise, I won't keep the PB.
Hate to let it go; but I just can't justify to keep a product that I won't be 100% happy with because of those damn lines.
Reread Post #1010....carefully!
I know it's Christmas time, but thoroughly reread my last Post #1010; the following is an excerpt from the original quote:
"The problem is not a software problem, not a video card problem, or a firmware problem. I was told by AppleCare that it was a physical "issue" with the screen itself. This means that unless you have found a way to physically replace the screen, you have not fixed the problem."
Remember, according to the source (Texas guy), Apple has finally stopped hiding under the iPod!
Don't give up the ship!
DIXIE
I know it's Christmas time, but thoroughly reread my last Post #1010; the following is an excerpt from the original quote:
"The problem is not a software problem, not a video card problem, or a firmware problem. I was told by AppleCare that it was a physical "issue" with the screen itself. This means that unless you have found a way to physically replace the screen, you have not fixed the problem."
Remember, according to the source (Texas guy), Apple has finally stopped hiding under the iPod!
Don't give up the ship!
DIXIE
Stayed Tuned!!
A further quote from Scott Denman (Texas):
"I guess you could say this isn't the "official" word from Apple, but a confirmation that they are aware of the problem.
The Apple tech I spoke to detailed quite vividly the makings of a LCD, and explained how a misalignment or bad spacing between the many filters that make up one of these screens could cause lines to appear. This, among all the other tests I've seen, lead me to believe about 99% that it's a physical screen problem. If it were a software problem, the tech guy wouldn't have needed to explain the mechanics of a LCD, and Apple probably would have isolated the problem by now. When they admit all particular models have a particular defect, I would assume they don't just sit around waiting for it to fix itself.
This post's purpose is to help those who have PowerBooks, and are not satisfied with them, make a better decision as to whether or not to return the machines."
_______________________________________________________________
It is obvious that Scott is no dummy that could be soft-soaped by PR pap.
Stay in there guys & gals; we're movin' along!!
DIXIE
A further quote from Scott Denman (Texas):
"I guess you could say this isn't the "official" word from Apple, but a confirmation that they are aware of the problem.
The Apple tech I spoke to detailed quite vividly the makings of a LCD, and explained how a misalignment or bad spacing between the many filters that make up one of these screens could cause lines to appear. This, among all the other tests I've seen, lead me to believe about 99% that it's a physical screen problem. If it were a software problem, the tech guy wouldn't have needed to explain the mechanics of a LCD, and Apple probably would have isolated the problem by now. When they admit all particular models have a particular defect, I would assume they don't just sit around waiting for it to fix itself.
This post's purpose is to help those who have PowerBooks, and are not satisfied with them, make a better decision as to whether or not to return the machines."
_______________________________________________________________
It is obvious that Scott is no dummy that could be soft-soaped by PR pap.
Stay in there guys & gals; we're movin' along!!
DIXIE
DIXIE said:I know it's Christmas time, but thoroughly reread my last Post #1010; the following is an excerpt from the original quote:
"The problem is not a software problem, not a video card problem, or a firmware problem. I was told by AppleCare that it was a physical "issue" with the screen itself. This means that unless you have found a way to physically replace the screen, you have not fixed the problem."
DIXIE
Th reason I don't think this means much is because if Apple isn't sure what is causing this, and are trying to determine the cause, then why would they say the problem is not a software or video card problem?
What part of NOT is NOT understood?
"The problem is NOT a software problem, NOT a video card problem, or NOT a firmware problem. I was TOLD BY APPLE CARE that it was a PHYSICAL "issue" with the screen itself."
Sheeesh....!
The only thing that's SURE is death, taxes, and the sun rises in the morning!
As of now, Apple is NOT SURE what is the cause of the PHYSICAL issue with the screen.
Keep the faith.
DIXIE
"The problem is NOT a software problem, NOT a video card problem, or NOT a firmware problem. I was TOLD BY APPLE CARE that it was a PHYSICAL "issue" with the screen itself."
Sheeesh....!
The only thing that's SURE is death, taxes, and the sun rises in the morning!
As of now, Apple is NOT SURE what is the cause of the PHYSICAL issue with the screen.
Keep the faith.
DIXIE
DIXIE said:
You having a bad day DIXIE? Read what you stated above. It says to me that Apple is aware of an "effect", but are investigating to determine the cause of the lines. This means they don't have a conclusion yet. So how can you say it's not a software, video card, or firmware problem?
It's all BS anyway. Who is Scott Denman anyway? How many conflicting comments do you read on Apple forums, that come from Apple Care, store employees, "Genuises"?
This is really a sad sad thing to see. I used to be the most dedicated apple fan but after having 4 bad powermac G5s in a row and multiple powerbooks with dead pixels my patience was wearing thin. Then I got one of these 15" HD powerbooks and I had the lines. The guy in the Apple Store in Oakbrook, IL tried to argue with me that it was not a problem. I did finally get a return but it was the last straw for me. I have now switched back to PC and I'm perfeclty happy with it. My friend also switched back as well for similar reasons. It is sad that Apple is starting to lose customers over quality control issues
Meyvn said:
This makes little sense.
If you wanted to do that with this PB, why don't you try getting the rev prior to this one? One of the newer, cooler things on the new PB is the damn screen. It looks nice, if it wasn't only for the damn lines.
I really love the way my stuff fits all on the screen...Geesh...I hate the lines though.
And after having said that, I will not deal with the lines. I'm very, very inclined to returning this and getting a 12" iBook or 12" PB, which is what I wanted to get in the first place.
Why keep a defective $2,000 computer?
While the lines on mine aren't noticeable while using Safari or Mail, as soon as I open iPhoto or Final Cut and start doing something...there they are...unacceptable.
Meyvn said:
maybe not impossible, but for sure too expensive and troublesome to make it worth it
Better to get a good external and have a good screen part of the time
This is hilarious...
As I stated on the Apple boards, the person I spoke to from AppleCare told me that "Apple uses one of the highest resolution displays on the market" , and that sometimes all the arrays of filters that go into a LCD are misaligned, or poorly spaced, causing effects that could be similar to these horizontal lines.
He was very careful not to say that the lines were a problem, our out of spec. He did say that Apple engineers were working on a fix, but he wasn't sure if Apple would fix the issue, or decide that it is within spec. I was also told that all new high res 15" PowerBooks are having this problem.
If it were a software issue, I imagine someone would have "hacked" a fix by now.
Either way, don't expect anything until after December 28th, which is when Apple's engineers start working again. If there's no fix by the time my return period with this machine is up, it's going back.
Take my word at what it is, but be assured if you keep sending feedback, and sign this petition, it will show Apple that we want them to do something about our screens.
As I stated on the Apple boards, the person I spoke to from AppleCare told me that "Apple uses one of the highest resolution displays on the market"
, and that sometimes all the arrays of filters that go into a LCD are misaligned, or poorly spaced, causing effects that could be similar to these horizontal lines.He was very careful not to say that the lines were a problem, our out of spec. He did say that Apple engineers were working on a fix, but he wasn't sure if Apple would fix the issue, or decide that it is within spec. I was also told that all new high res 15" PowerBooks are having this problem.
If it were a software issue, I imagine someone would have "hacked" a fix by now.
Either way, don't expect anything until after December 28th, which is when Apple's engineers start working again. If there's no fix by the time my return period with this machine is up, it's going back.
Take my word at what it is, but be assured if you keep sending feedback, and sign this petition, it will show Apple that we want them to do something about our screens.
No word on this topic for a few days... how about a resurrection.
Anything new? I still haven't returned mine waiting for a fix soon before my 30 days are up.
Anything new? I still haven't returned mine waiting for a fix soon before my 30 days are up.
There have been a couple other threads about it, like this one: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/169362/
And apparently we keep hearing the news that Apple is "working on it." I guess there won't really be much to report until they annouce if they will fix it or not.
And apparently we keep hearing the news that Apple is "working on it." I guess there won't really be much to report until they annouce if they will fix it or not.
I just got my PB (15" model) and it looks gorgeous. No lines on the screen. No flicker or wave. Maybe Apple fixed the problem or it could just be because I lead a charmed life...