Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks

[BENJMNS]

Where exactly did that poster say the problem was fixed?

All I see is a hopeful speculation that the issue may have been resolved.

i never said fixed; reading comprehension needs work (you)

again, how is it resolved or showing any sort of positive trend if 42+ week builds are showing the line problem consistently????

 

[LucT]

on the nature of the line issue

I posted earlier a link to the apple forum related to the origin of the line problem but cannot find the post anymore.
There is in my sense on this Apple forum thread the definite evidence of the defective nature of recent PB15" screens. This proff comes from the comparison of a W8542 lineless HR PB and a more recent line affected one.


http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=1422677#1422677:

"Attached are super macro pictures of two PB15" DL/HR, one being taken from a line less screen, the other from a line affected one . These two pictures have been taken I believe using the default Apple acqua blue background.

1. a perfect screen :

http://homepage.mac.com/jfelbab/.Pi...-03 10.20.05 -0800/Image-3A5D38504C9611DA.jpg

2 a line affected screen :

http://www.attaboy.nl/PB15-2.tiff

Apparently, in the perfect PB15" screen, each pixel is exactely the same as ALL the other adjacent pixels (up, down, left, right). This produces a perfect regularity of the image. A close look shows that each pixel is composed by three verticaly oriented colors : Red, green, blue, in the middle of a very thin black frame.

On the contrary the picture taken from the defective lined screen displays two singularities :

a/ each pixel is different from its two adjacent lateral ones. On each horizontal row a red / green / blue pixel is preceeded and followed by a red /blue / blue one. This produces the first level of irregularity.

b/ the second pattern is visible at the vertical level. There is a perfect match of two adjacent following rows of pixels (each red/green/blue + red/blue/blue pairs of pixels matches with a red/green/blue + red/blue/blue on the adjacent bottom row).

What seems to produce the horizontal lines is that this pattern of two rows is followed by two other similar BUT misaligned rows of pixels, in such a way that a red/green/blue unit is located ABOVE a red/blue/blue one, producing an alternating pattern.

Finally (in my understanding) the line pattern might be produced by these two combined factors : At the horizontal level every other pixel seems to be lacking of the green component. At the vertical level Pixel rows 1 and 2 are identical, but laterally translated from one pixel on rows 3 and 4 (this would not be visible if each pixel were identical as in plain color background).This misalignment produces the lines.

Now, go back to the crankycat image. The right sausage / corn dog boy image is forged with a two pixel rows 5% grey overlay. When this pattern superimposes with the two identical rows, the line pattern disappears !!"

 

[ybakos]

Check out those Macro Photos to See the Cause

Way cool LucT, I've been wondering what the actual CAUSE was. This blows. Total manufacturing defect. I can't believe QA let something this obvious through.

Re: the possibility of good screens... I've been watching these threads since the first PB's shipped (including mine w/ lines) and I kinda have the feeling some of the earlier produced machines (eg, wk 42) shipped with good screens.

Seven more days until return time... Apple has a SPECIAL RETURN POLICY through the holidays and you can request to return your sweetest-computer-ever-but-with-a-crap-screen until the 8th of January.

"If you purchased a product between October 31, 2005 - December 24, 2005, you may request an RMA by January 8, 2006."

 

[Wombert]

Give.It.Up.

The guy said that he has seen PB's with the lines. He knows what to look for. He is saying they aren't there. Plus, you take any closeup photo of a screen and it's gonna look like the pic he posted.

Just be happy for him and look at it as a positive sign that Apple may be doing something to fix this issue.

Negativity leads to old age...

Look at the pic again. We're not talking about the black gaps between individual pixels. It's so obvious. Every second row of pixels is a little darker. Do I really have to load the photo into photoshop and apply some filters to prove it? I too have seen PBs with lines, in fact, I own one myself, so _I_ know what to look for. If you can't see them, good (or bad) for you, but don't tell my I'm making something up or whatever

 

[BENJMNS]

i'm going to pass with the headaches... just exchanged it for a new 17".

the apple store guys were clueless until they received mine. the "genius" looked up in their knowledge base and whispered to the manager the scenario. i showed them the cranky cat pic. scan lines, black lines blah blah

the manager tells me he is willing to exchange w/o charging me the restocking fee, but would've done it for a full return which i think is ridiculous.

i would've pressed much harder if i really wanted to unload and return, but i was going to be exchanging it anyways for the 17 so here i am with the big dog.

how can they charge me the restocking fee for a defective unit and this is all within the 14 day return policy? what a bunch of BS.

 

[840quadra]

i never said fixed; reading comprehension needs work (you)

again, how is it resolved or showing any sort of positive trend if 42+ week builds are showing the line problem consistently????

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks for the concern. I have also noted (since my comprehension is in question) that you have changed the context of your question in this post, from your last. I must also assume that your question is rhetorical, because how can you expect anyone outside of Apple answer that or the previous question?

It is entirely possible that I phrased my question in a way that is hard to understand, so I will try to explain it better here.

My question to you was based upon your obvious attack on 3dit3r's comment.

Again, all I see (from them) is a hopeful speculation that the issue may have been resolved. For whatever reason you go after them like they are positive that apple had fixed, resolved, (whatever word you would like to use), the issue, while also demanding an explanation from them.

I am sorry you are angry about this subject. I truly sympathize with yourself and others in your position, but you and others in that position don't need to come on here and attack people that see a different point of view.

how can they charge me the restocking fee for a defective unit and this is all within the 14 day return policy? what a bunch of BS.

I would guess it was because you decided to go with a 17" as opposed to a 15". Did they offer to repair or replace your 15 before you asked to exchange? Even if they did and you rejected it, they are within their rights to ask for this fee, as you chose not to work with 15' powerbooks anymore.

Since trading up is considered the same as a return it falls under their return policy. The restocking fee is listed on their site (arguably hidden), and supposedly in their stores (again not in plain site), so it is their discretion wether or not they charge this fee. It all depends on the mood of the person you are working with, and how genuine they perceive your problem is.

 

[DinoMac]

i'm going to pass with the headaches... just exchanged it for a new 17".

the apple store guys were clueless until they received mine. the "genius" looked up in their knowledge base and whispered to the manager the scenario. i showed them the cranky cat pic. scan lines, black lines blah blah

the manager tells me he is willing to exchange w/o charging me the restocking fee, but would've done it for a full return which i think is ridiculous.

i would've pressed much harder if i really wanted to unload and return, but i was going to be exchanging it anyways for the 17 so here i am with the big dog.

how can they charge me the restocking fee for a defective unit and this is all within the 14 day return policy? what a bunch of BS.

HEY BENJMNS,
I'm thinking about getting the 17" too ... Did you get the standard 17", or did you upgrade anything like RAM or change to 7200 hard drive?

 

[BENJMNS]

HEY BENJMNS,
I'm thinking about getting the 17" too ... Did you get the standard 17", or did you upgrade anything like RAM or change to 7200 hard drive?

i didn't want to deal with waiting for apple's online store to deliver so i bought the retail store's 512mb, 120gb unit and just spent $300 for the 1gb ram stick and installed it there.

so i had the 15" ultimate at $2399. the 17" unit cost me $500 more including the 1gig extra ram. damn i spent a lot. stupid apple and their quality control or lack thereof... their retail operation needs help. mac "geniuses?" whose bright idea was that to call them that? setting them up for failure

that's where i sit today.

 

[BENJMNS]

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks for the concern. I have also noted (since my comprehension is in question) that you have changed the context of your question in this post, from your last. I must also assume that your question is rhetorical, because how can you expect anyone outside of Apple answer that or the previous question?

It is entirely possible that I phrased my question in a way that is hard to understand, so I will try to explain it better here.

My question to you was based upon your obvious attack on 3dit3r's comment.

Again, all I see (from them) is a hopeful speculation that the issue may have been resolved. For whatever reason you go after them like they are positive that apple had fixed, resolved, (whatever word you would like to use), the issue, while also demanding an explanation from them.

I am sorry you are angry about this subject. I truly sympathize with yourself and others in your position, but you and others in that position don't need to come on here and attack people that see a different point of view.



I would guess it was because you decided to go with a 17" as opposed to a 15". Did they offer to repair or replace your 15 before you asked to exchange? Even if they did and you rejected it, they are within their rights to ask for this fee, as you chose not to work with 15' powerbooks anymore.

Since trading up is considered the same as a return it falls under their return policy. The restocking fee is listed on their site (arguably hidden), and supposedly in their stores (again not in plain site), so it is their discretion wether or not they charge this fee. It all depends on the mood of the person you are working with, and how genuine they perceive your problem is.

let's cut to the chase and keep things simple

i was within the 14 day return/exchange period

my 15" unit has a defective display and apple has ADMITTED to this per other users on this forum.

thus, i should NOT be charged the restocking fee for a defective unit... and guess what.. i wasn't going to be... my main complaint being that they seemed to play it like they were doing me a favor when we were simply following APPLE policy

and internet bud, don't read too much into written text written on the net. you being sensitive and all... i'll be partying with some of my NBA player buddies tonite.. no anger here whatsoever. thus my ebonics. hope that doesn't offend you in your white castle.

 

[840quadra]

let's cut to the chase and keep things simple

I didn't think things were difficult , but since this is off topic anyway I will retract my question out of respect for the other members on this forum, and the Moderators.

i was within the 14 day return/exchange period

Fair enough

my 15" unit has a defective display and apple has ADMITTED to this per other users on this forum.

thus, i should NOT be charged the restocking fee for a defective unit... and guess what.. i wasn't going to be... my main complaint being that they seemed to play it like they were doing me a favor when we were simply following APPLE policy

Did you tell this to people at the Apple store, or did you just approach them wanting to move up to a 17"?

If (and this is a big if) your powerbook actually had a problem with lines, and your reasons for going to a 17" were simply to avoid this issue, I fully agree that the restock fee is absurd. With that, I doubt this was the case with yours, as stated yourself that didn't notice it until you stumbled upon online forum topics in regards to the line issue. If you ( who claim to be tech savvy) didn't notice the lines at first, I doubt the people at the Apple store did, thus not supporting a free exchange.

and internet bud, don't read too much into written text written on the net. you being sensitive and all... i'll be partying with some of my NBA player buddies tonite.. no anger here whatsoever. thus my ebonics. hope that doesn't offend you in your white castle.

Now that my beer is full of tears from that personal gibe, let me say (or type) the following.

I have been corrected many times on these forums, and will many times again. I just choose to deal with it, and learn from the advice given by others. It is fine if you are not like that, just get used to those kinds of corrections on these forums, I am (was) allot nicer about it then many others on this forum tend to be in regards to stuff like that.

Thanks for the dialog

 

[BENJMNS]

I didn't think things were difficult , but since this is off topic anyway I will retract my question out of respect for the other members on this forum, and the Moderators.


Fair enough


Did you tell this to people at the Apple store, or did you just approach them wanting to move up to a 17"?

If (and this is a big if) your powerbook actually had a problem with lines, and your reasons for going to a 17" were simply to avoid this issue, I fully agree that the restock fee is absurd. With that, I doubt this was the case with yours, as stated yourself that didn't notice it until you stumbled upon online forum topics in regards to the line issue. If you ( who claim to be tech savvy) didn't notice the lines at first, I doubt the people at the Apple store did, thus not supporting a free exchange.



Now that my beer is full of tears from that personal gibe, let me say (or type) the following.

I have been corrected many times on these forums, and will many times again. I just choose to deal with it, and learn from the advice given by others. It is fine if you are not like that, just get used to those kinds of corrections on these forums, I am (was) allot nicer about it then many others on this forum tend to be in regards to stuff like that.

Thanks for the dialog

i don't take any stuff thrown at me on forums personally... it's pure entertainment. so if people want to be "meaner," so be it.. i too can play.

with that said, i do value advice esp of these niche types.

i DID notice the diagonal scan lines before i ran into this forum. it was this forum that then confirmed that this was an issue unique to the 15s and that there were also the black horizontal lines which are quite readily apparent esp when comparing it to the panels on the 12s and 17s. it is a common issue with the 15 hi-res. check out www.cnet.com for the banding. i checked randomly at two apple stores and each of their 15" units showed the banding and the diagonal scan lines. piss poor.

again, i was well within my 14 day return/exchange period and i went with the 17 to not deal with another "new" 15 that have a very high chance of showing the black lines/scan lines.

at the end of the day, the 15" display ISSUE has been a blessing in disguise as i much prefer the 17. a non-issue 15 would be great, but until apple steps up (who knows??), y'all "stuck" with the hi-res faulty 15... if you ever try to unload it... potential buyers may ask... "does it have the black line 15 panel?"

i do hope apple fixes it, but then i ain't having apple care mess with a few days old laptop. i don't have confidence in them and sounds like a lot of you don't either. not into surpises with my electronic computer stuffs.

 

[840quadra]

i don't take any stuff thrown at me on forums personally... it's pure entertainment. so if people want to be "meaner," so be it.. i too can play.

Same here, and I don't take things seriously (as I hope you have noticed), I tend to be a bit playful to the point were some feel I am getting personal. To me a bit of a test on an online forum helps prepare me for real life tests.

i DID notice the diagonal scan lines before i ran into this forum. it was this forum that then confirmed that this was an issue unique to the 15s and that there were also the black horizontal lines which are quite readily apparent esp when comparing it to the panels on the 12s and 17s. it is a common issue with the 15 hi-res. check out www.cnet.com for the banding. i checked randomly at two apple stores and each of their 15" units showed the banding and the diagonal scan lines. piss poor.

I understand, and truly do sympathize with your issue and where you are coming from. I misunderstood your previous posts on this as meaning that you didn't know about the lines until you came on here. I stand corrected on that assumption, but it does bother me when other people do "discover" issues with equipment (Computers, cars, bikes, etc) after reading about them on online forums, unless it is something that is impossible to notice.

again, i was well within my 14 day return/exchange period and i went with the 17 to not deal with another "new" 15 that have a very high chance of showing the black lines/scan lines.

at the end of the day, the 15" display ISSUE has been a blessing in disguise as i much prefer the 17. a non-issue 15 would be great, but until apple steps up (who knows??), y'all "stuck" with the hi-res faulty 15... if you ever try to unload it... potential buyers may ask... "does it have the black line 15 panel?"

i do hope apple fixes it, but then i ain't having apple care mess with a few days old laptop. i don't have confidence in them and sounds like a lot of you don't either. not into surpises with my electronic computer stuffs.

I am glad you love your 17", they appear to be a great computer, though a bit large for my needs. I was looking at a 15" Powerbook when I ended up with my 12" iBook late in 2005. I decided that since I have a G5 Powermac at home, I didn't need that powerful of a portable machine, as I tend to do my big tasks at home.

Lets all hope this issue doesn't ghost it's way into the next generation Powerbooks, neither Apple or it's users need an other black eye!

 

[Spectrum]

More HiRes screenshots

Hi LucT, you are doing some fine detective work - however, I thought I should join in with some clarification...

I've taken some macro shots of my screen - apologies for any poor quality - due to compression, not the original image.

First two shots are the top left of the screen with default desktop (Aqua blue) with an image and some text on it. The second shot is a crop saved at higher quality.

Third and fourth shots are of the top right of the screen where a small screen capture of the top left of the screen is open at 100% size in a Preview window - so as to get an exact image comparison. Again, the latter shot is a crop saved at higher quality.

As I hope you can see, the descriptions by LucT below (about misaligned pixels) only applies to the leftmost part of the screen. And only in the blues and shadowed yellows/whites. It is my belief that the pixels or subpixels are not infact misaligned. The apparent misalignment observed, I believe, is the manifestation of the inversion scheme used by this PB display. That is: Line-paired RGB subpixel dot-inversion - see: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/dotinvrgb2l.html

Notice how this test pattern matches that observed on the PB screen photo, and how it flickers most at the left hand side of the screen - precisely where the odd pixel pattern is observed in the screen photos. In case it is relevant, the shot was taken at 1/80th of a second. I don't know how frequent the inversion-scheme switches. (Does it match the refresh rate?)

Notice that in my test shots of the top right, the pixels are uniform in the composition of R G and B, but actually start to get bad toward the very right of the screen. The very right hand side of my screen also shows some slight flicker with the techmind test pattern.

Just to clarify: flickering is expected with one of the techmind patterns - it allows you to visually determine the inversion scheme type used by the display. The website suggests that if really bad it may also indicate poor display timing though - Is the PB's flickering excessive? - I'm not really sure...

Anyway. I'm not sure that the inversion scheme is the cause of the horizontal banding in alternate pixel rows since the banding is present in all parts of the display, not just at the top left, or extreme right.. but it certainly may be responsible for the wavy interference banding observed in (amongst other colours) the crankycat orange, which IS worse in the top left of the screen.

Keep at it. Now New Year is over, I'm about to start hassling Apple again (I've been out of the country for 2weeks+). Let's see what the new year brings

p.s. For any doubters out there - I hope these shots of the right of the screen are clear enough for people to see the nature of the horizontal lines that are being discussed: Each alternate row of pixels is slightly lighter/darker than the previous row. Nothing to do with the black outlines of each pixel.

I posted earlier a link to the apple forum related to the origin of the line problem but cannot find the post anymore.
There is in my sense on this Apple forum thread the definite evidence of the defective nature of recent PB15" screens. This proff comes from the comparison of a W8542 lineless HR PB and a more recent line affected one.


http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=1422677#1422677:

"Attached are super macro pictures of two PB15" DL/HR, one being taken from a line less screen, the other from a line affected one . These two pictures have been taken I believe using the default Apple acqua blue background.

1. a perfect screen :

http://homepage.mac.com/jfelbab/.Pi...-03 10.20.05 -0800/Image-3A5D38504C9611DA.jpg

2 a line affected screen :

http://www.attaboy.nl/PB15-2.tiff

Apparently, in the perfect PB15" screen, each pixel is exactely the same as ALL the other adjacent pixels (up, down, left, right). This produces a perfect regularity of the image. A close look shows that each pixel is composed by three verticaly oriented colors : Red, green, blue, in the middle of a very thin black frame.

On the contrary the picture taken from the defective lined screen displays two singularities :

a/ each pixel is different from its two adjacent lateral ones. On each horizontal row a red / green / blue pixel is preceeded and followed by a red /blue / blue one. This produces the first level of irregularity.

b/ the second pattern is visible at the vertical level. There is a perfect match of two adjacent following rows of pixels (each red/green/blue + red/blue/blue pairs of pixels matches with a red/green/blue + red/blue/blue on the adjacent bottom row).

What seems to produce the horizontal lines is that this pattern of two rows is followed by two other similar BUT misaligned rows of pixels, in such a way that a red/green/blue unit is located ABOVE a red/blue/blue one, producing an alternating pattern.

Finally (in my understanding) the line pattern might be produced by these two combined factors : At the horizontal level every other pixel seems to be lacking of the green component. At the vertical level Pixel rows 1 and 2 are identical, but laterally translated from one pixel on rows 3 and 4 (this would not be visible if each pixel were identical as in plain color background).This misalignment produces the lines.

Now, go back to the crankycat image. The right sausage / corn dog boy image is forged with a two pixel rows 5% grey overlay. When this pattern superimposes with the two identical rows, the line pattern disappears !!"

 

[BENJMNS]

Lets all hope this issue doesn't ghost it's way into the next generation Powerbooks, neither Apple or it's users need an other black eye!

cheers to that

 

[luke23]

Hi,

i have the same problem of horizontal lines. I have some short question I hope you could answer:

1) Is Apple aware of this problem? I mean, Do they have any replacement program?

2) My computer is on the first 90 days, what should I do?

Thanks in advance and sorry about my english.

 

[840quadra]

cheers to that

Hi,

i have the same problem of horizontal lines. I have some short question I hope you could answer:

1) Is Apple aware of this problem? I mean, Do they have any replacement program?

2) My computer is on the first 90 days, what should I do?

Thanks in advance and sorry about my english.

You may want to read this thread more closely before asking that question

 

[luke23]

You may want to read this thread more closely before asking that question

Sorry, but I work 9 hours a day and I am overwhelmed by the number of replyes most of then very technicall that I hardly understand what they say. I would be very grateful if you could answer my question. Anyway I am calling to the shop I bought the laptop.

Thank you.

 

[840quadra]

I understand, and am sorry if I sounded crass.


1. Apple is more or less aware of the problem, but has no official standpoint on how to rectify the issue. Some have had luck returning or exchanging their Powerbooks, others have not. Apple has no actual program for this currently.

2. Apple's official return policy is for 14 days from the purchase date (your local rules and laws may vary). Being in your 90 day period will give you leverage if there is a valid support problem (at the discretion of Apple unfortunately .

I wish you luck in your dealings!

 

[3dit3r]

Hi,

i have the same problem of horizontal lines. I have some short question I hope you could answer:

1) Is Apple aware of this problem? I mean, Do they have any replacement program?

2) My computer is on the first 90 days, what should I do?

Thanks in advance and sorry about my english.

You've already got your answer from another reply, however, I offer this advice. Try. It. Out. Don't be negatively influenced by other people's reactions to the lines. Would you even have noticed the lines if you hadn't been told they were there? Everyone will have a different reaction to them. So before you curse Jobs to a thousand deaths and deem Apple a corrupt corporation, exercise your free will and give it a whirl. You may be passing up on a great notebook. If, after a trial period, your use of the machine is hampered by the lines, then do what you need to do.

 

[ccantrell]

You've already got your answer from another reply, however, I offer this advice. Try. It. Out. Don't be negatively influenced by other people's reactions to the lines. Would you even have noticed the lines if you hadn't been told they were there? Everyone will have a different reaction to them. So before you curse Jobs to a thousand deaths and deem Apple a corrupt corporation, exercise your free will and give it a whirl. You may be passing up on a great notebook. If, after a trial period, your use of the machine is hampered by the lines, then do what you need to do.

I completely agree. I don't like them but the other aspects of this model are great enhancements. 30" Video Display Capability, 7200 RPM Drive, etc Bad pixels are much worse IMO.

Just as a side note, I picked up a 15" widescreen VGA display from CompUSA today and noticed very similar lines in this monitor. It is a 15" widescreen. I have never heard of Norwood Micro but maybe they OEM from the same place. Just odd that is in that screen also.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=333270&pfp=SEARCH

 

[luke23]

I understand, and am sorry if I sounded crass.


1. Apple is more or less aware of the problem, but has no official standpoint on how to rectify the issue. Some have had luck returning or exchanging their Powerbooks, others have not. Apple has no actual program for this currently.

2. Apple's official return policy is for 14 days from the purchase date (your local rules and laws may vary). Being in your 90 day period will give you leverage if there is a valid support problem (at the discretion of Apple unfortunately .

I wish you luck in your dealings!

THANK YOU!! Don't worry, you did not sound crass. Your reaction was correct since is not a nice behavior beeing posting (is this correctly written??) the same question all the time.

In an Spanish forum, a person send his laptop to technical service but they give him back a display with the same horizontal line problems.

You've already got your answer from another reply, however, I offer this advice. Try. It. Out. Don't be negatively influenced by other people's reactions to the lines. Would you even have noticed the lines if you hadn't been told they were there? Everyone will have a different reaction to them. So before you curse Jobs to a thousand deaths and deem Apple a corrupt corporation, exercise your free will and give it a whirl. You may be passing up on a great notebook. If, after a trial period, your use of the machine is hampered by the lines, then do what you need to do.

I thought this way a lot of times. Sincerely, when I bought the laptop I noticed somehow the lines but I thought that It was something due to ALL TFT displays since I had not have any until now I could not check that. I found the issue by chance and when I checked the famous cranck's picture my suspects were confirmed. Anyway I am not professional of the image neither a master of Photoshop but when I bought something with this prize I hope it works the same way. That's all. If you ask if I can live with those lines, the answer is YES but I feel dissapointed when I think that one of the main things that drives me to choose PB was the quality of the screen.

Thank you very much for your opinion.

 

[Sic]

since is not a nice behavior beeing posting (is this correctly written??) the same question all the time.

you don't need "beeing" (being), then it's correct

 

[Spectrum]

More technical pics

Made up some gradients in illustrator. Upper is a radial greyscale, lower is a linear horizontal gradient from pure blue (0,0,255) to pure red (255,0,0).

First shot is of top left of screen (screen capture of photo opened at 50% size in Preview)

Second shot is of top centre of screen (screen capture of photo opened at 50% size in Preview)

Shot with D70 SLR w/ Sigma 24mm Macro lens. ISO400, f/1.8, 1/500th sec.

Contrary to my previous post, it appears to me that the horizontal lines MAY be caused by the inversion scheme, since the inversion pattern is more evident in mid tones than full colours. It is also apparent in the greyscale gradient (weakly) in the topCentre shot.

However, in another test, I found it impossible to produce the inversion pattern in photos of the top centre of the screen using the Apple Aqua desktop as a subject, even at shutter speeds up to 1/8000th second, so I'm not sure what is going on. Different colours/tones seem to display the inversion pattern to different extents, yet all mid-tone colours display the horizontal pixel lines...

Disclaimer: All of this may be perfectly normal behaviour of LCDs. I am no electronic engineer.

What the gradient pics of the top centre do show is how the horizontal lines become most evident in midtones, and disappear as colours become saturated.

N.B. The inversion scheme pattern disappears in the topleft shots as shutter speed slows. By <1/50th second, the pattern is not observed in most photos. As expected I guess if the pixels invert faster than this.

 

[luke23]

you don't need "beeing" (being), then it's correct

Thanks. This way I improve my english.

 

[Arcus]

Hi LucT, you are doing some fine detective work - however, I thought I should join in with some clarification...

I've taken some macro shots of my screen - apologies for any poor quality - due to compression, not the original image.

First two shots are the top left of the screen with default desktop (Aqua blue) with an image and some text on it. The second shot is a crop saved at higher quality.

Third and fourth shots are of the top right of the screen where a small screen capture of the top left of the screen is open at 100% size in a Preview window - so as to get an exact image comparison. Again, the latter shot is a crop saved at higher quality.

As I hope you can see, the descriptions by LucT below (about misaligned pixels) only applies to the leftmost part of the screen. And only in the blues and shadowed yellows/whites. It is my belief that the pixels or subpixels are not infact misaligned. The apparent misalignment observed, I believe, is the manifestation of the inversion scheme used by this PB display. That is: Line-paired RGB subpixel dot-inversion - see: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/dotinvrgb2l.html

Notice how this test pattern matches that observed on the PB screen photo, and how it flickers most at the left hand side of the screen - precisely where the odd pixel pattern is observed in the screen photos. In case it is relevant, the shot was taken at 1/80th of a second. I don't know how frequent the inversion-scheme switches. (Does it match the refresh rate?)

Notice that in my test shots of the top right, the pixels are uniform in the composition of R G and B, but actually start to get bad toward the very right of the screen. The very right hand side of my screen also shows some slight flicker with the techmind test pattern.

Just to clarify: flickering is expected with one of the techmind patterns - it allows you to visually determine the inversion scheme type used by the display. The website suggests that if really bad it may also indicate poor display timing though - Is the PB's flickering excessive? - I'm not really sure...

Anyway. I'm not sure that the inversion scheme is the cause of the horizontal banding in alternate pixel rows since the banding is present in all parts of the display, not just at the top left, or extreme right.. but it certainly may be responsible for the wavy interference banding observed in (amongst other colours) the crankycat orange, which IS worse in the top left of the screen.

Keep at it. Now New Year is over, I'm about to start hassling Apple again (I've been out of the country for 2weeks+). Let's see what the new year brings

p.s. For any doubters out there - I hope these shots of the right of the screen are clear enough for people to see the nature of the horizontal lines that are being discussed: Each alternate row of pixels is slightly lighter/darker than the previous row. Nothing to do with the black outlines of each pixel.

Oh great. After looking at the yellow balls in those pictures I am now seeing vertical lines!! Seriously.