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Spectrum said:
So I got spurred on by an Apple Discussions thread

Here are the pics of my screen displaying this image in Safari.

First = at top of screen
Second = one pixel down
Third = at top of screen with software from this thread running (PBLineFix)

As you can see, there is a BIG difference in the intensity of the two sides. If people don't see this, then (IMO) their screen is good. For the interested, my opinion on the software workaround is as follows: A good workaround, but NOT a fix. The required opacity of the overlaid lines depends on colorsync profile, and shade/colour of the displayed graphics. For example, I can make it so that the test image shows no intensity difference, but now I can see dark lines in other areas of the display (mostly in light shades, like the menu bar). It also doesn't work in any application that uses full screen mode, nor during expose.

Sorry Spectrum I didn't understand very well the last paragraph of your post. Anyway, I have read the thread in the Apple official forum and now I am slightly filled with new hope to get a lineless screen. The software solution does not convince me.
 
luke23 said:
Sorry Spectrum I didn't understand very well the last paragraph of your post. Anyway, I have read the thread in the Apple official forum and now I am slightly filled with new hope to get a lineless screen. The software solution does not convince me.

On my HiRes PB15, the LCD horizontal lines cause the horizontal lines in the test image to be rendered in either of two shades depending on whether the image lines do, or do not, coincide with the LCD lines. (the lines in the test image are offset by one pixel height vertically)

This causes the brighter half to swap from side to side as you move the image down one pixel at a time.

The PBLineFix program places a screen-sized overlay of horizontal lines, over ALL the OS graphics. You can vary the opacity (intensity) of the lines.

If I use the Color LCD profile, I need to choose about 8% opacity for the two sides of the test image to render in the same shade. For other colorsync profiles I need to use a different value. To remove the lines from images, I need a different value again (and for different areas of the same image).

The overlay lines can also become visible on top of pure whites and other light colours.

Unfortunately, the overlay behaves as it should in expose, and moves to the top edge of the screen - you can see it do this if you press SHIFT+F11 to clear the desktop slowly.

Also, Apps that use "full screen mode" ignore the overlay - such as full screen view in Preview.

Does this make sense?

Just been to BHphoto. They have a 15" - it has the lines. The new 17 does not.
 
Spectrum said:
On my HiRes PB15, the LCD horizontal lines cause the horizontal lines in the test image to be rendered in either of two shades depending on whether the image lines do, or do not, coincide with the LCD lines. (the lines in the test image are offset by one pixel height vertically)

This causes the brighter half to swap from side to side as you move the image down one pixel at a time.

The PBLineFix program places a screen-sized overlay of horizontal lines, over ALL the OS graphics. You can vary the opacity (intensity) of the lines.

If I use the Color LCD profile, I need to choose about 8% opacity for the two sides of the test image to render in the same shade. For other colorsync profiles I need to use a different value. To remove the lines from images, I need a different value again (and for different areas of the same image).

The overlay lines can also become visible on top of pure whites and other light colours.

Unfortunately, the overlay behaves as it should in expose, and moves to the top edge of the screen - you can see it do this if you press SHIFT+F11 to clear the desktop slowly.

Also, Apps that use "full screen mode" ignore the overlay - such as full screen view in Preview.

Does this make sense?

Just been to BHphoto. They have a 15" - it has the lines. The new 17 does not.
:confused: Sorry but I can't barely understand, it seems my english is not enough advanced to understand it. Anyway, I have very good news:) , in the Spanish forum about Mac someone has reported a succesfull repair of the display. Nice news!!!
 
Pics of display with no lines

Not sure if you have seen this, but if you read this thread through and go to the links provided, it is a pretty convincing display of a screen that has been replaced and has no lines:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1603358

The first picture isn't very convincing, but if you follow it along he performs a number of tests that seem to convince most of the readers on that thread.

This fellow had also posted on a different thread where he mentions that the new LCD that fixed his problem has the same part number as the old one, so it is possible that the part number is not to be used as the sole indicator of a possible good replacement.

(Added): Uh, oops, I now see this was already linked to. Sorry.
 
Taking the plunge...

Howdy,

I am embarking on a adventure in SE Asia that will keep me there for probably over a year. I've got a G5 and a PB 12" which I'm selling off for a new 15" PB with the 1440x960 screen. I simply can't travel with a desktop, and I have realized the 12" PB is too limiting in speed and screen resolution for my needs. I read about the issues with this machine before I ordered, but I'm taking the plunge because I can't bear the thought of troubleshooting a MacBook Pro 15" for the next six months and dealing with a digital photography workflow in a Rosetta/Photoshop environment that runs like a dog. So I've got some questions for y'all about how you've been dealing with the line issue. But first, I'll add my comments on my personal experience with the display pattern problem.

I went to my local Apple Store in Burlington, Massachusetts, and though I didn't try any of the test images (such as the excellent desktopsplit.png), all five PB 15" machines I looked at quite clearly had a horizontal pattern. I could take the same iPhoto demo image and view it side by side between one of the 15" PB's and a 12" PB or 17" PB, and the 12" and 17" PB's had no pattern, the images looked very smooth by comparison. I have been tested for visual acuity and have better than 20/20 vision, and I could see this as being a real annoyance while working on photos or graphic design for long periods of time. Coming from the pre-press industry, I know that this kind of screen quality would not fly with most designers, photographers or pixel-pushers. Certainly, it quite possible the mass majority of people out there may have no issues with this kind of pattern. Our eyes and brains are built to adapt to these kinds of things.

However my immediate impression of the pattern was that it is not so much a glitch or defect as much a deviation from normal LCD screen element manufacturing. It's likely that this screen element is a one of a kind manufacturered design, and that through Q&A the pattern was not really picked up on. My best non-knowledgeable guess is that the alternate horizontal rows are receiving different voltage levels to the LCD pixel elements in that row. For instance, if you were displaying an all white screen, all pixel elements on rows 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. are all receiving one voltage level - while the pixel elements on even numbered rows are receiving a slightly lower voltage level. This translates into each horizontal row being a different perceived light intensity value than it's two neighboring rows. I don't have a doubt in my mind that this is purely a function of how the screen was manufactured. It is unlike any other recently manufactured LCD screen I've worked with or looked at (and I've looked at many).

The recent report by rich*e on the previously mentioned Apple Forum thread gives creedence to the possibility that the manufacturing process of the 15" PB's LCD screen could be or has been revised recently such that the output of all horizontal rows on the screen are consistent. I am holding out hope that the 15" PB that is shipping to me right now will have one of these newer screen elements. However, if I am one of the unlucky ones - here are those questions:

When you sent your PB 15" to have it or the screen replaced, how long did the whole process take before you got your old PB back (or received a new one)?

And for the people who are using the PBLineFix app - I'm wondering how much system resources this program takes to make the transparent pattern over the entire screen. Does anyone know how much memory it lands up using to do it's magic? Does it slow anything down in your day to day use?

I'd appreciate any feedback at all.

I'm crossing my fingers and toes on my purchase, but I really hope everyone who's affected by this is eventually able to see it "fixed" to their satisfaction.

Thanks,

Keith
 
Hi Keith,

well, given what you want the machine for, by best adivce to you is: buy the 17". From what I have read, the only possible problem you may experience is a slightly unevenly lit screen (towards the bottom). It has a lot more screen real-estate, which you may appreciate, and it is still MUCH smaller than a desktop ;)

BUT: if you are really keen on the 15", and if it comes with lines, my opinion on the PBLineFix problem still stands at what I wrote earlier ^^^

It can certainly reduce the perceived problem for average shades, but no matter what, if your images have a lot of dymnamic range, some parts WILL still show the lines. Either because the chosen opacity is not strong enough to cover them, or because the opacity is so strong that you start to see the overlay lines in lighter shades (like white, for example, which is normally line-free).

RE: resources. PBLineFix only uses CPU when you alter the opacity. After that it uses <1% in activity monitor, and 10MB. Note that, for me, it gets ignored in full screen view of Preview, and behaves like a window during expose, but it works during Full screen view of Photoshop, and VLC, so this is probably a minor niggle.

Good luck! You might even get a good screen. But I doubt it :(

Alternatively... I think Photoshop will not be such a dog on a MacBook, even in Rosetta - just give it >1GB RAM and it should be fine. From preliminary benches with the Intel iMac, I expect at the very least it will match the performance of running Photoshop natively on the G4. In the Keynote, Steve compared the performance to an iMac G5, which surpasses the G4 PB. And in addition, other native Apps will run a LOT faster, as will Ubinaries once they arrive.

By the way, I just got the audio looping problem again - in VLC this time. These bugs are a bit ridiculous, that is for sure.

zzzippp said:
Howdy,

I am embarking on a adventure in SE Asia that will keep me there for probably over a year. I've got a G5 and a PB 12" which I'm selling off for a new 15" PB with the 1440x960 screen. I simply can't travel with a desktop, and I have realized the 12" PB is too limiting in speed and screen resolution for my needs. I read about the issues with this machine before I ordered, but I'm taking the plunge because I can't bear the thought of troubleshooting a MacBook Pro 15" for the next six months and dealing with a digital photography workflow in a Rosetta/Photoshop environment that runs like a dog. So I've got some questions for y'all about how you've been dealing with the line issue. But first, I'll add my comments on my personal experience with the display pattern problem.

I went to my local Apple Store in Burlington, Massachusetts, and though I didn't try any of the test images (such as the excellent desktopsplit.png), all five PB 15" machines I looked at quite clearly had a horizontal pattern. I could take the same iPhoto demo image and view it side by side between one of the 15" PB's and a 12" PB or 17" PB, and the 12" and 17" PB's had no pattern, the images looked very smooth by comparison. I have been tested for visual acuity and have better than 20/20 vision, and I could see this as being a real annoyance while working on photos or graphic design for long periods of time. Coming from the pre-press industry, I know that this kind of screen quality would not fly with most designers, photographers or pixel-pushers. Certainly, it quite possible the mass majority of people out there may have no issues with this kind of pattern. Our eyes and brains are built to adapt to these kinds of things.

However my immediate impression of the pattern was that it is not so much a glitch or defect as much a deviation from normal LCD screen element manufacturing. It's likely that this screen element is a one of a kind manufacturered design, and that through Q&A the pattern was not really picked up on. My best non-knowledgeable guess is that the alternate horizontal rows are receiving different voltage levels to the LCD pixel elements in that row. For instance, if you were displaying an all white screen, all pixel elements on rows 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. are all receiving one voltage level - while the pixel elements on even numbered rows are receiving a slightly lower voltage level. This translates into each horizontal row being a different perceived light intensity value than it's two neighboring rows. I don't have a doubt in my mind that this is purely a function of how the screen was manufactured. It is unlike any other recently manufactured LCD screen I've worked with or looked at (and I've looked at many).

The recent report by rich*e on the previously mentioned Apple Forum thread gives creedence to the possibility that the manufacturing process of the 15" PB's LCD screen could be or has been revised recently such that the output of all horizontal rows on the screen are consistent. I am holding out hope that the 15" PB that is shipping to me right now will have one of these newer screen elements. However, if I am one of the unlucky ones - here are those questions:

When you sent your PB 15" to have it or the screen replaced, how long did the whole process take before you got your old PB back (or received a new one)?

And for the people who are using the PBLineFix app - I'm wondering how much system resources this program takes to make the transparent pattern over the entire screen. Does anyone know how much memory it lands up using to do it's magic? Does it slow anything down in your day to day use?

I'd appreciate any feedback at all.

I'm crossing my fingers and toes on my purchase, but I really hope everyone who's affected by this is eventually able to see it "fixed" to their satisfaction.

Thanks,

Keith
 
hey guys,

i got my screen replaced a couple days ago finally and I dont see the lines anymore. I passed the quadrant.gif test. can someone post links to other tests please?

Only draw back is that the screen i got has a dead pixel and I don't know if i should return it AGAIN and get it replaced (i might be risking getting a lined screen again.... sigh).

The lines however are gone, but I'd like to do more tests. I WAS able to clearly see them on my old screen and now I can't.

I dont know what to conclude out of this.

:/
 
heedree said:
hey guys,

i got my screen replaced a couple days ago finally and I dont see the lines anymore. I passed the quadrant.gif test. can someone post links to other tests please?

Only draw back is that the screen i got has a dead pixel and I don't know if i should return it AGAIN and get it replaced (i might be risking getting a lined screen again.... sigh).

The lines however are gone, but I'd like to do more tests. I WAS able to clearly see them on my old screen and now I can't.

I dont know what to conclude out of this.

:/

I don't get it. If you cannot see them, why in the world do you want to run more tests?:confused:
 
Pixel Help

To heedree, another Apple lottery winner:

I hope your new screen is good.

In the meantime try this Pixel Killer::cool:

http://itasor.com/pixelmurder.mov

Instead of just clicking the link, CTRL-click and download the file. Then open, set it to loop in View menu of Quicktime, and place the window behind the stuck pixel (you can resize it). It rapidly cycles through many colors/shades, and the idea is that it can force a stuck pixel to change.

DIXIE
:D :D
 
Pixel Help

To heedree, another Apple lottery winner!:rolleyes:


I hope your new screen is good.

In the meantime try this Pixel Killer::cool:

http://itasor.com/pixelmurder.mov

Instead of just clicking the link, CTRL-click and download the file. Then open, set it to loop in View menu of Quicktime, and place the window behind the stuck pixel (you can resize it). It rapidly cycles through many colors/shades, and the idea is that it can force a stuck pixel to change.

DIXIE
:D :D
 
zzzippp said:
Howdy,

I am embarking on a adventure in SE Asia that will keep me there for probably over a year. I've got a G5 and a PB 12" which I'm selling off for a new 15" PB with the 1440x960 screen. I simply can't travel with a desktop, and I have realized the 12" PB is too limiting in speed and screen resolution for my needs. I read about the issues with this machine before I ordered, but I'm taking the plunge because I can't bear the thought of troubleshooting a MacBook Pro 15" for the next six months and dealing with a digital photography workflow in a Rosetta/Photoshop environment that runs like a dog. So I've got some questions for y'all about how you've been dealing with the line issue. But first, I'll add my comments on my personal experience with the display pattern problem.

I went to my local Apple Store in Burlington, Massachusetts, and though I didn't try any of the test images (such as the excellent desktopsplit.png), all five PB 15" machines I looked at quite clearly had a horizontal pattern. I could take the same iPhoto demo image and view it side by side between one of the 15" PB's and a 12" PB or 17" PB, and the 12" and 17" PB's had no pattern, the images looked very smooth by comparison. I have been tested for visual acuity and have better than 20/20 vision, and I could see this as being a real annoyance while working on photos or graphic design for long periods of time. Coming from the pre-press industry, I know that this kind of screen quality would not fly with most designers, photographers or pixel-pushers. Certainly, it quite possible the mass majority of people out there may have no issues with this kind of pattern. Our eyes and brains are built to adapt to these kinds of things.

However my immediate impression of the pattern was that it is not so much a glitch or defect as much a deviation from normal LCD screen element manufacturing. It's likely that this screen element is a one of a kind manufacturered design, and that through Q&A the pattern was not really picked up on. My best non-knowledgeable guess is that the alternate horizontal rows are receiving different voltage levels to the LCD pixel elements in that row. For instance, if you were displaying an all white screen, all pixel elements on rows 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. are all receiving one voltage level - while the pixel elements on even numbered rows are receiving a slightly lower voltage level. This translates into each horizontal row being a different perceived light intensity value than it's two neighboring rows. I don't have a doubt in my mind that this is purely a function of how the screen was manufactured. It is unlike any other recently manufactured LCD screen I've worked with or looked at (and I've looked at many).

The recent report by rich*e on the previously mentioned Apple Forum thread gives creedence to the possibility that the manufacturing process of the 15" PB's LCD screen could be or has been revised recently such that the output of all horizontal rows on the screen are consistent. I am holding out hope that the 15" PB that is shipping to me right now will have one of these newer screen elements. However, if I am one of the unlucky ones - here are those questions:

When you sent your PB 15" to have it or the screen replaced, how long did the whole process take before you got your old PB back (or received a new one)?

And for the people who are using the PBLineFix app - I'm wondering how much system resources this program takes to make the transparent pattern over the entire screen. Does anyone know how much memory it lands up using to do it's magic? Does it slow anything down in your day to day use?

I'd appreciate any feedback at all.

I'm crossing my fingers and toes on my purchase, but I really hope everyone who's affected by this is eventually able to see it "fixed" to their satisfaction.

Thanks,

Keith

Hi,

first of all I hope you will get a lineless PB. I can not answer your second question since I did not try the program. But about the first one I can tell you I gave my PB to Technical Repair Shop in my town (Bilbao, [see Google]:) ) 9 days ago. At first they told that it would be a matter of one week so I called them on the 7th day and ask how it was doinng? They said to me that the display didn't arrive yet what it may be cause because there is a high demand of the new lineless displays and of course you should consider that for Apple we are the butt of the world :)

Good luck
 
Hello all, this is my first post on this forum. I live in Stockholm, Sweden.

My PowerBook 15" is now line free after replacing the display!

This is my story:
I have been following this forum thread and others because my PowerBook had the lines. I bought it in November 2005 and called Apple about the problem a couple of weeks later and they told me to go to a local repair shop (the guy on Apple support hadn't heard anything about such a display problem). I called the one closest to me and talked to the guy there, and he hadn't heard about the problem neither so I went there to show it to him, and he acknowledged it.

But we came to the conclusion that it was pointless to order a new display before Apple had issued a repair program because I would just get the same type and the problem with the horizontal lines would remain. So I was told to wait for awhile, and see if Apple would come up with a sollution.

I kept contact with the guy at the repair shop, but he heard nothing from Apple, and insisted on not replacing my screen before then. I called Apple myself and got a casenumber, but they again sent me to the repair shop. So I felt that I was kind of stuck somewhere between the repair shop and Apple support.

So last week I got really tired of the horizontal lines (and two other problems: Soundloop and broken "n"-key) so I called Apple up again, and explained my problem in depth, and got connected to a guy who was very nice and understood my problem, and he said that according to his papers the sollution was to change the display, and that the repaircenter-guy was obliged to do it.

So the Appleguy called ahead and told the repairguy what to do, and I went there with my PowerBook, and today I got it back, without the lines!

I have tried the "pb15_problems.png" picture, and it looks fine, and the other line picture posted in this thread (don't remember by who) also looks good. If anyone has any more tests that they think I should run to be sure that it really is free of lines, I'd be happy to do them and post the results here.

I have no digital camera so I can't take a picture to show you that it is fixed. My advise if you have lines on your display is to call Apple so you get it changed, because it is really a big difference without the lines.
 
David Kjelkerud said:
Hello all, this is my first post on this forum. I live in Stockholm, Sweden.

My PowerBook 15" is now line free after replacing the display!

This is my story:
I have been following this forum thread and others because my PowerBook had the lines. I bought it in November 2005 and called Apple about the problem a couple of weeks later and they told me to go to a local repair shop (the guy on Apple support hadn't heard anything about such a display problem). I called the one closest to me and talked to the guy there, and he hadn't heard about the problem neither so I went there to show it to him, and he acknowledged it.

But we came to the conclusion that it was pointless to order a new display before Apple had issued a repair program because I would just get the same type and the problem with the horizontal lines would remain. So I was told to wait for awhile, and see if Apple would come up with a sollution.

I kept contact with the guy at the repair shop, but he heard nothing from Apple, and insisted on not replacing my screen before then. I called Apple myself and got a casenumber, but they again sent me to the repair shop. So I felt that I was kind of stuck somewhere between the repair shop and Apple support.

So last week I got really tired of the horizontal lines (and two other problems: Soundloop and broken "n"-key) so I called Apple up again, and explained my problem in depth, and got connected to a guy who was very nice and understood my problem, and he said that according to his papers the sollution was to change the display, and that the repaircenter-guy was obliged to do it.

So the Appleguy called ahead and told the repairguy what to do, and I went there with my PowerBook, and today I got it back, without the lines!

I have tried the "pb15_problems.png" picture, and it looks fine, and the other line picture posted in this thread (don't remember by who) also looks good. If anyone has any more tests that they think I should run to be sure that it really is free of lines, I'd be happy to do them and post the results here.

I have no digital camera so I can't take a picture to show you that it is fixed. My advise if you have lines on your display is to call Apple so you get it changed, because it is really a big difference without the lines.
Hi,

Congratulations. Can you tell us if you have AppleCare? Did they solve de loopback problem too?

Since my PB is in the repair shop ten days now I could not test the sound problem although I did not notice it.

Have fun with your PB.

Bye.
 
No I don't have Apple Care 3 years, if that is what you mean. This was covered by the 1 year guarantee.

I have to wait with the question about the sound, need to test it more first.
 
David Kjelkerud said:
No I don't have Apple Care 3 years, if that is what you mean. This was covered by the 1 year guarantee.

I have to wait with the question about the sound, need to test it more first.
Thanks. Yes, it was exactly about the Apple Care what I was refering to. I live in Spain and I think we have 2 years of guarantee (it is sure we have one).

PD. Sorry about my horrible english.
 
Understandable!

luke23 said:
Thanks. Yes, it was exactly about the Apple Care what I was refering to. I live in Spain and I think we have 2 years of guarantee (it is sure we have one).

PD. Sorry about my horrible english.
________________________________________________________________

There is no need to apologize for your use of English; you are very well understood; I wish I could express myself as well in Spanish.:eek:

Remember, practice makes perfect! :)

hasta la vista! ;)

DIXIE
:D :D
 
DIXIE said:
________________________________________________________________

There is no need to apologize for your use of English; you are very well understood; I wish I could express myself as well in Spanish.:eek:

Remember, practice makes perfect! :)

hasta la vista! ;)

DIXIE
:D :D

wrong kind of spanish :) he speaks the difficult spanish :(
 
:D :D

Hi guys,

Yes I am not a casual Spanish I am just Spanish for administrative purpouses but my feelings are Basque. Anyway I speak Spanish well, since we must study it at school, but I also speak basque. When my PB comes repaired I will teach it basque and I will send a letter to Steve Jobs demanding an Apple Store in the Basque Country. :p

Agur. (Good bye in Basque)
 
w00t, my PB goes in for repair today. i'll let you know what happens when i get it back tonight. *hopefully* i'll win the apple lottery. i've never won anything before - how exciting!!
 
Sic said:
w00t, my PB goes in for repair today. i'll let you know what happens when i get it back tonight. *hopefully* i'll win the apple lottery. i've never won anything before - how exciting!!
Good luck, man!
 
Wish you were here.

My powerbook sure must be enjoying the weather down in Houston, because it is taking its time in returning to me--still "in progress" 7 days layer. I was assured that the screen would be replaced this time. Right now their record of fixing the screen is 0 for 2, and each of those times took only 36 hours before I had the machine back in my hands, several states away. Is this how long actual repairs take, a week? Normally I just get items repaired on campus, but for this specific problem, I figured it would be best to involve Apple directly. This way I can (without guilt) whine at them if something isn't fixed properly.
 
marmot25 said:
My powerbook sure must be enjoying the weather down in Houston, because it is taking its time in returning to me--still "in progress" 7 days layer. I was assured that the screen would be replaced this time. Right now their record of fixing the screen is 0 for 2, and each of those times took only 36 hours before I had the machine back in my hands, several states away. Is this how long actual repairs take, a week? Normally I just get items repaired on campus, but for this specific problem, I figured it would be best to involve Apple directly. This way I can (without guilt) whine at them if something isn't fixed properly.
Who knows, maybe the delay is a good sign ;) Keep us posted!
 
Hi,

I have been told the same, I will have my PB repaired withing 1 week. Today it makes 2 weeks. I called them and they told me that the screens are out of stock. It is maybe a good signal.
 
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