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MacAri said:
I noticed it right away, particular when you view darker colors. Blacks and shades of black are particulary bad. I think the blue is actually more subtle but you can tell even on the lighter colors as well (though I think you notice it much more once you know how it looks - even subtle differences become magnified).

It doesn't show up on black backgrounds for me.
 
Hmmm... for me, the darker shades are about the only places I don't see the lines. I've just put a photo of my own on the desktop now - contrary to my earlier statement, at normal typing distance, I can see the horizontal lines throughout the picture. Very disappointing :(

I'm going to take some photographs, when I have time, of the same picture on the PB and on my 17" G4 iMac at work. Aside from the colour rendition, the difference is striking.

My first personal Macintosh, too. double :(

EDIT: aahhh, Fireburst beat me to it.


MacAri said:
I noticed it right away, particular when you view darker colors. Blacks and shades of black are particulary bad. I think the blue is actually more subtle but you can tell even on the lighter colors as well (though I think you notice it much more once you know how it looks - even subtle differences become magnified).
 
Fireburst said:
It doesn't show up on black backgrounds for me.

Go to http://www.espn.com and view the ESPN logo (black and grey logo that has 10th Anniversary on it). When you view that logo you can easily see the banding/texture of the horizontal lines.

If you slowly scroll you can see the horizontal lines disappear and reappear as you focus on a single line/place where the logo is on the screen.
 
MacAri, this is an excellent example of the problem - if people don't see this, then they have a good screen (the alternate banding is constantly visible on my iMac - as it should be, it's part of the texture of the image. But it comes and goes as you move it on my 15"PB).

p.s. don't try if you're happy with your display - it'll make you sad :(

---

MacAri said:
Go to http://www.espn.com and view the ESPN logo (black and grey logo that has 10th Anniversary on it). When you view that logo you can easily see the banding/texture of the horizontal lines.

If you slowly scroll you can see the horizontal lines disappear and reappear as you focus on a single line/place where the logo is on the screen.
 
I too have this problem: W8543

I'm not a graphics guy and would not have noticed this
issue without reading this thread first.

Mine appears more subtle than the ones I saw
at the Palo Alto apple store though, but that
may have to do with the store lighting.
Comparing the apple store's 15" and 17" screens side by side,
it's like night and day quality wise. I can't
believe Apple is calling this normal?

Definately sounds like a hardware issue, not
a driver issue. Was hoping the later for a simple
firmware update, but alas, that doesn't appear to be the
case. I'm also not convinced that there are ANY good
screens out there yet, but some are worse than others.

I was all set to go into the apple store today to have this repaired,
but it sounds like Apple is not going to try
and acklowledge and repair this issue (yet), so I'm not going
to waste my time with applecare until I know they will fix it and/or
there are confirmed reports of good screens.
Last thing I want to do is send my machine in, have them muck around with
it, not fix a damn thing, and break something else in the
process.

My BTO machine is otherwise a very solid build,
with the exception of an annoying 'clicking' sound with
my Seagate 7200 rpm drive when the drive is idle.
Which is weird because the clicking at idle is louder
than when it's reading/writing??? I'm an audio recording
guy, so this hdd noise is actually much more bothersome
to me than the screen issue. Of course I know apple won't bother
replacing the hdd for this issue, and even if they replace
it, I might end up with something worse.

I would return this machine for a refund based
on the above two issues if I could and
wait to buy another one when the build quality gets better,
but my machine is a BTO, so I'm SOL there. :(

Is anyone else getting more and more frustrated with 'Apple Ipod Inc.'
lately? I mean they are locking and deleting threads on
their forums on this screen issue. WTF?!?!

Anyhow, a few things I've learned from this experience:
1) Never buy within the first month of a computers release.
2) Avoid BTO option if you can and order stock from a place with liberal
return policy and no restocking fees (ie Amazon, etc).

Oh well, like I said, it's a very solid machine otherwise (so far).
I'm sure I'll get used to the screen and clicking hdd and come
to love it as much as my old flawless still running like a champ Ti 667 powerbook.

I will eventually report my issues to Applecare, I just want
more time to soak in user reports to build my case.
 
mandoman said:
I too have this problem: W8543
I would return this machine for a refund based on the above two issues if I could and wait to buy another one when the build quality gets better,
but my machine is a BTO, so I'm SOL there. :(

Apple should refund you in full regardless of it being a B.T.O. machine based upon the flaw being on Apple's end and not you just simply wanting to return an item for no apparent reason.
 
Today was my 14th day, and with no fix from Apple in sight, I just returned my PB to the Apple store in Alderwood, WA. Mac Genius there had no idea what I was talking about, but did eventually see the lines on my screen, then confirmed that they were present in all other 15"s they had.

I wound up moving up to the 17" (which I almost bought in the first place), but they had to call a manager in to approve the swap as, technically, the 15" wasn't really considered defective (as they were all like that.)

I still have my old receipt, and the serial# on mine started with: W8540 , so week 40, which apparently isn't much of a surprise.

On the whole, things worked out okay for me, but I really would encourage people to return their PBs, instead of sending them in for servicing--if the rumors of really early Intel PB launches hold, it seems possible Apple will let this subtle but irritating screen defect pass.
 
MacAri said:
Apple should refund you in full regardless of it being a B.T.O. machine based upon the flaw being on Apple's end and not you just simply wanting to return an item for no apparent reason.

I definately agree, but the problem is apple is calling these screens 'normal', so
I don't think it will be that easy. I suppose if I raised enough of a stink I could
arrange for a refund, and I still might attempt to do that.
 
mandoman said:
I definately agree, but the problem is apple is calling these screens 'normal', so
I don't think it will be that easy. I suppose if I raised enough of a stink I could
arrange for a refund, and I still might attempt to do that.

If you go to the Apple Store and explain your situation and if you need to get a bit loud so others can hear of your complaints the manager will agree to a refund just to shut you up.

I myself need a laptop right now either way and cannot afford the downtime to turn it in and a 17" won't do either. I'm going to play a wait and see for now but my advice above is what I will follow if it comes down to it later on.
 
I eventually sent my new PowerBook in to AppleCare because after doing work for an extended period of time I was starting to get some terrible headaches that I attributed to the eye-strain caused by the lines...

Has anyone else experienced this?

~Jeff Corbets
 
Hmmm... i was quietly considering returning this comp for a 17" since everyone seems to be raving about it in comparison. But my 15" is CTO/BTO. Does this mean you cannot return it even if the thing is faulty??? What if it's not what you expected? (I basically bought sight-unseen from the AppleStore - so you could argue that you've been mis-sold).

I'm going to call AppleCare tomorrow and see what they say. Some may think I'm whining, but (Ok I am a bit :eek: ), BUT, I was originally torn between a 12" + 20"ACD for serious screen work, or a 17".

But then the new displays dropped, and I thought: Excellent, the 15 now has the equivalent of the 17" screen in a tighter, more portable package - just what I need. And a perfect match to my 17' iMac G4 desktop.

Now I'm torn...the only things better about this laptop than the previous gen are the 7200 HD, and battery life. If I'd foregone those, I could have bought an end of line (Feb2005) 1.67/15" + 20ACD for the same money...

or just buy the 17" and leave it at home most of the time...

Rats.

---

mandoman said:
I too have this problem: W8543
...
I would return this machine for a refund based
on the above two issues if I could and
wait to buy another one when the build quality gets better,
but my machine is a BTO, so I'm SOL there. :(
...
Anyhow, a few things I've learned from this experience:
1) Never buy within the first month of a computers release.
2) Avoid BTO option if you can and order stock from a place with liberal
return policy and no restocking fees (ie Amazon, etc).
...
 
MacAri said:
If you go to the Apple Store and explain your situation and if you need to get a bit loud so others can hear of your complaints the manager will agree to a refund just to shut you up. .

I bought my computer from an out of state Authorized Reseller with third party
ram, so again, returning it is not that easy. I called the reseller about the screen
issue and he said apple needs to get a hold of it since it's a bto machine, so I can
not get a direct refund from the reseller. Not sure how it will go with apple.

I'm gussing I need to get an Apple Genius to declare it DOA, than I can get a refund
from the reseller somehow.
 
jeffcorbets said:
I eventually sent my new PowerBook in to AppleCare because after doing work for an extended period of time I was starting to get some terrible headaches that I attributed to the eye-strain caused by the lines...

Has anyone else experienced this?

~Jeff Corbets

Yes, I have had eye strain with the new machines, but I would attribute it
to the smaller text with the higher resolution.
 
mandoman said:
Yes, I have had eye strain with the new machines, but I would attribute it
to the smaller text with the higher resolution.

I would add that I have tried lower non-native resolutions to increase
the text size and hopefully relieve the eye strain, but the text looks horribley blurry
at anything but the native resolution. Another lame issue I have with these
new HD screens...
 
Man those lines in the photo are bad (and obvious). If you can't tell if you have them right away, you probably don't have them. Makes me feel better about how crappy I thought my cinema display is.

BTW mandoman, everything on LCDs looks crappy in non-native resolutions. It's nothing new. This is why cranking up the resolutions in new products can only go so far.
 
mandoman said:
Yes, I have had eye strain with the new machines, but I would attribute it
to the smaller text with the higher resolution.

Except that the machine this laptop is replacing is a 15" HP laptop with a native resolution of 1400 x 1050... more pixels on a smaller screen...

~Jeff Corbets
 
Re: ESPN.COM test

Ok, I just received my 15" pb today and having been looking at this issue all day long ... so i went to espn.com and did this little test that MacAri suggested ... and indeed, the lines come and go as you scroll pixel by pixel down the screen. My serial # is W8545 ... week 45.

Next to my powerbook is an intel dev transition kit with a brand-new, beautiful dvi-d (digital signal) 19" Samsung 930b lcd monitor ... so I decided to try the same page/test on this monitor. Guess what? the *same* effect happens on my samsung, but to a lesser extent.

So now I am led to believe that this effect happens on all monitors, but to varying degrees ... and some 15" powerbooks are more pronounced than others. I suggest that everyone try looking at the black & white espn logo @ espn.com on another monitor and see if they get this affect as well ... it would be enlightening if nothing else.

Spectrum said:
MacAri, this is an excellent example of the problem - if people don't see this, then they have a good screen (the alternate banding is constantly visible on my iMac - as it should be, it's part of the texture of the image. But it comes and goes as you move it on my 15"PB).

p.s. don't try if you're happy with your display - it'll make you sad :(

---
 
nQuery said:
... so I decided to try the same page/test on this monitor. Guess what? the *same* effect happens on my samsung, but to a lesser extent.

So now I am led to believe that this effect happens on all monitors, but to varying degrees ... and some 15" powerbooks are more pronounced than others. I suggest that everyone try looking at the black & white espn logo @ espn.com on another monitor and see if they get this affect as well ... it would be enlightening if nothing else.

I have my wife's iMac G5 17" right next to my PB and I did the same thing and got the same results as you. I didn't want to say it right away because ppl are going to think that I like my defective screen:D
 
tribe3 said:
I have my wife's iMac G5 17" right next to my PB and I did the same thing and got the same results as you. I didn't want to say it right away because ppl are going to think that I like my defective screen:D

That just means you have TWO defective screens :D

--
Seriously though, the EPSN lines look fine as you scroll on my iMac 17"G4, but come and go on my 15"PB.

So, do tribe3 and nQuery think this is normal or not? Now I've noticed it, it bugs the hell out of me - I see them everywhere!

---
Edit:added G4 to iMac for clarity
 
Don't get me wrong - I am not suggesting that there isn't a problem with the quality of the lcds in the new 15" powerbooks. It seems like it's far too apparent on 15" powerbook displays ... compared to other notebooks and external monitors .. :(

tribe3 said:
I have my wife's iMac G5 17" right next to my PB and I did the same thing and got the same results as you. I didn't want to say it right away because ppl are going to think that I like my defective screen:D
 
One thing I did notice on my external samsung is that if i use the scroll wheel to scroll then i don't see any differences - probably because the wheel is scrolling an even number of pixels everytime. if i randomly jump a bit using the slider on the side of the window then the effect is more pronounced.

again, not saying that there isn't a problem ...

Spectrum said:
That just means you have TWO defective screens :D

--
Seriously though, the EPSN lines look fine as you scroll on my iMac 17", but come and go on my 15"PB.

So, do tribe3 and nQuery think this is normal or not? Now I've noticed it, it bugs the hell out of me - I see them everywhere!
 
Or one defective logic board?

Spectrum -- perhaps Tribe3 has a defective logic board or at least a defective chip on the board that is causing all video out to dim on alternate lines.

As an aside I just don't think this business of building Airport on to the motherboard is such a hot idea. Has anyone tried comparing the performance of these lined displays with Airport on and then with Airport off?
 
dblissmn said:
Has anyone tried comparing the performance of these lined displays with Airport on and then with Airport off?

Yep, doesn't seem to make a difference though.

My SN is W8542... does that mean week 42? I'm thinking about calling apple care tomorrow just to see if I can get some sort of answer about this.
 
mandoman said:
My BTO machine is otherwise a very solid build,
with the exception of an annoying 'clicking' sound with
my Seagate 7200 rpm drive when the drive is idle.
Which is weird because the clicking at idle is louder
than when it's reading/writing??? I'm an audio recording
guy, so this hdd noise is actually much more bothersome
to me than the screen issue. Of course I know apple won't bother
replacing the hdd for this issue, and even if they replace
it, I might end up with something worse.

not sure what the deal is but my BTO 17" with the 7200rpm seagate drive is doing the same exact thing. it will click about every 10 seconds like it's running a check or something. not sure what it is. doesn't seem to bother me unless the room is really quiet. if i am typing, i cannot hear it.
 
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