Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks

[Shai-Nadir]

I guess that ignorance is bliss because before I read this thread I thought my screen was perfect and one of the best that I have ever used on a notebook. But having read through the thread and reading claims that all new powerbooks have this issue to some degree made me examine my notebook more closely. At normal viewing I do not see any horizontal lines but if you look very closely (about 2-3 inches away) the horizontal lines are visible. But having seen the lines, it still does not detract me from saying that this lcd is awesome to use. I will never use my powerbook 3 inches away from my face so the lines are a nonissue for me.

As a sidenote, I also have an Acer Travelmate 8103 that has a 15.4" wsxga screen (1680 X 1050) and if you look at it very closely, the horizontal lines are there as well. It is only noticeable at close range but fine at normal viewing.

 

[kingstontown]

I had yesterday about 3 calls with Apple Care, Apple Store and then again Apple Store, and I arranged with them that they'll take back my PB, and it's a CTO machine.
Maybe Apple Europe is more flexible?!

The problem is I don't know now what to buy instead

I guess I'll go back to the 12" device, it's wysiwyg because I had it before...

Apple should refund you in full regardless of it being a B.T.O. machine based upon the flaw being on Apple's end and not you just simply wanting to return an item for no apparent reason.

 

[Vanilla]

not sure what the deal is but my BTO 17" with the 7200rpm seagate drive is doing the same exact thing. it will click about every 10 seconds like it's running a check or something. not sure what it is. doesn't seem to bother me unless the room is really quiet. if i am typing, i cannot hear it.

This may not be exactly the same situation but I noticed on my 15" a regular "clunking" sound, which turned out to be the heads parking. After a bit of research on the boards I came across a piece of software called APM Tuner X whose description is as follows:

"Advanced Power Management is a feature found in hard disks for portable usage aimed at conserving power. However, APM can effect the user experience, creating a sense of "lag" or clunking sounds when the head is parked. By increasing the APM Value, the drive will "park" its heads less often. The result is a more responsive drive with less 'clunking.' "

I found this from reading on clunking noises on an Apple discussion board that indicated it was specifically a Seagate drive issue but I cant find the thread anymore unfortunately, which is a shame as it also contained an active download link. If I still have the DMG I'd be happy to upload it to my iDisk area for you to access and try out. I set the software to a 194 setting and it removed the problem for me.

Have a search for APM Tuner X in Google and you'll get an idea of the software.
cheers
Vanilla

 

[kingstontown]

I had a look at the WXGA from Sony etc. and it's definitely not the same thing. It makes pictures look "dirty" as if they had stripes or so.

I guess that ignorance is bliss because before I read this thread I thought my screen was perfect and one of the best that I have ever used on a notebook. But having read through the thread and reading claims that all new powerbooks have this issue to some degree made me examine my notebook more closely. At normal viewing I do not see any horizontal lines but if you look very closely (about 2-3 inches away) the horizontal lines are visible. But having seen the lines, it still does not detract me from saying that this lcd is awesome to use. I will never use my powerbook 3 inches away from my face so the lines are a nonissue for me.

As a sidenote, I also have an Acer Travelmate 8103 that has a 15.4" wsxga screen (1680 X 1050) and if you look at it very closely, the horizontal lines are there as well. It is only noticeable at close range but fine at normal viewing.

 

[Wombert]

Here's another shot

And a very good one. Shows the scanlines very clearly. Note how every other row of pixels is a little darker. Thanks for this one.

 

[generik]

The ESPN logo was a good example.. too good

Wah! I got a bad screen too!

 

[generik]

As a sidenote, I also have an Acer Travelmate 8103 that has a 15.4" wsxga screen (1680 X 1050) and if you look at it very closely, the horizontal lines are there as well. It is only noticeable at close range but fine at normal viewing.

Well, the PB is probably twice the cost of that Acer..

 

[generik]

Maybe a class action lawsuit would be a problem? heh I'm not the suing type, I just want some action to get Apple producing high quality displays again. Someone somewhere needs to light a fire under them. (figuratively speaking)

How do we get a lawyer collectively?

 

[tekmoe]

This may not be exactly the same situation but I noticed on my 15" a regular "clunking" sound, which turned out to be the heads parking. After a bit of research on the boards I came across a piece of software called APM Tuner X whose description is as follows:

"Advanced Power Management is a feature found in hard disks for portable usage aimed at conserving power. However, APM can effect the user experience, creating a sense of "lag" or clunking sounds when the head is parked. By increasing the APM Value, the drive will "park" its heads less often. The result is a more responsive drive with less 'clunking.' "

I found this from reading on clunking noises on an Apple discussion board that indicated it was specifically a Seagate drive issue but I cant find the thread anymore unfortunately, which is a shame as it also contained an active download link. If I still have the DMG I'd be happy to upload it to my iDisk area for you to access and try out. I set the software to a 194 setting and it removed the problem for me.

Have a search for APM Tuner X in Google and you'll get an idea of the software.
cheers
Vanilla

found it ---> http://freespace.kb-hosting.de/smatchy/APM_Tuner_X_1_0a2.zip

i'm using it now and really does work from what i can tell.

 

[jeffcorbets]

Okay, so my laptop is still with AppleCare... can someone who has a new 15" PowerBook check out some of the tests on this site:
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/

From reading the information there, it would appear the problem we are experiencing is related to the inversion process and might be the result of our increased battery life...

~Jeff Corbets

 

[aristobrat]

That looks like the "screen door" effect that people were fussing about on the 20" Dell monitor a year or two ago.

 

[kingstontown]

Wow thanks for that link, this is a great site. I'm at work now so I can't check but I'll go there in the evening with my PB.

Okay, so my laptop is still with AppleCare... can someone who has a new 15" PowerBook check out some of the tests on this site:
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/

From reading the information there, it would appear the problem we are experiencing is related to the inversion process and might be the result of our increased battery life...

~Jeff Corbets

 

[Infinity]

The ESPN logo was a good example.. too good

Wah! I got a bad screen too!

I've been following this thread for sometime now since I'm switching camp and getting two of these sweet machines, and I think some of you may be overreacting to having bad screens just because of the ESPN logo. Having looked at the ESPN site myself with two different CRT monitors, I couldn't help but laugh realising the ESPN logo actually has fine lines in it by design. Hehe, Funny! I think some of you can relax now

 

[Spectrum]

More pics

Some more digital photos of the screen (not screen captures).

 

[Spectrum]

Yes, we know. That's the point. But watch what happens when you move the ESPN logo up or down one pixel -> BANG! No lines.

The increased brightness of the alternate screen lines and those on the ESPN logo cancel each other out.

I've been following this thread for sometime now since I'm switching camp and getting two of these sweet machines, and I think some of you may be overreacting to having bad screens just because of the ESPN logo. Having looked at the ESPN site myself with two different CRT monitors, I couldn't help but laugh realising the ESPN logo actually has fine lines in it by design. Hehe, Funny! I think some of you can relax now

 

[VisualForces]

Yes, we know. That's the point. But watch what happens when you move the ESPN logo up or down one pixel -> BANG! No lines.

The increased brightness of the alternate screen lines and those on the ESPN logo cancel each other out.

Thanks for clarifying that for him, Spectrum. I work on images like this a lot and that is how I first noticed the issue. I was creating a graphic with scanlines, but I couldn't see them...then realized they were there...just had to move them a pixel...and then it looked "off" because some rows were darker than they should be.

 

[Infinity]

Damn thats a real dissapointment . I hope they resolve this issue, or at the very least address this for the current owners. I really don't wanna get another pigbox (WinXP)

C'mon Apple wheres all this quality I keep hearing about.

 

[VisualForces]

Okay, so my laptop is still with AppleCare... can someone who has a new 15" PowerBook check out some of the tests on this site:
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/

From reading the information there, it would appear the problem we are experiencing is related to the inversion process and might be the result of our increased battery life...

~Jeff Corbets

Very interesting...this looks the closest: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/rowinv.html

My Pbook is still with Apple Care (1 week today), so I can't take a look at it, but that looks to be the case with this new LCD

 

[Spectrum]

Just to really make the point

Screen capture, lines, no lines.

 

[Vanilla]

found it ---> http://freespace.kb-hosting.de/smatchy/APM_Tuner_X_1_0a2.zip

i'm using it now and really does work from what i can tell.

Cool, glad to be of service ;-)

BTW, I have 1.0b, not sure what the difference is but you basically get a slider which you position to 194 (that being the optimal value according to the discussion thread I mentioned that appears now to have been deleted) and hit enter, then close the app. My Pbook has worked perfectly in blissfull silence ever since.

Vanilla

 

[Spectrum]

For me, this one causes flicker: Line-paired RGB subpixel dot-inversion

http://www.techmind.org/lcd/dotinvrgb2l.html

the green one does it too, but to a lesser extent:

http://www.techmind.org/lcd/greendot2l.html

(the others flicker only when you move them. These two flicker ALL the time)

Edit2: but only when I place them in alternate vertical pixel positions! In the other vertical pixel positions, the image does not flicker - what does THIS mean about how the display is built? Only half of the pixels power manage?

Edit3: Wait, this is more interesting! Open up this: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/dotinvrgb2l.html
in Safari and make sure the window is abutting the toolbar (as high as the window can go) - it flickers. But for me, move it to the right of the screen, but still at the top: No flickering! I have no idea what this means - anybody have an electronic engineering degree?
--

Very interesting...this looks the closest: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/rowinv.html

My Pbook is still with Apple Care (1 week today), so I can't take a look at it, but that looks to be the case with this new LCD

Edit: for clarity/spelling

 

[VisualForces]

Screen capture, lines, no lines.

Nice shots! That shows it really well. Granted, it looks more noticeable in person, but these pics are as close as you can get to showing people.

 

[wildcard]

Hmm...according to Spectrum's ESPN shots, my display most closely resembles the "no-line" scenario. I don't have the vertical-horizontal screen-door effect that the other shots show.

 

[mandoman]

Very interesting...this looks the closest: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/rowinv.html

So if these scanlines we're experiencing are in fact 'normal' in order to save power, why does the 17" not experience this too? More pixels on the 17", you think would require more stringent power saving techniques?

 

[nQuery]

I get the exact same results as you.

For me, this one causes flicker: Line-paired RGB subpixel dot-inversion

http://www.techmind.org/lcd/dotinvrgb2l.html

the green one does it too, but to a lesser extent:

http://www.techmind.org/lcd/greendot2l.html

(the others flicker only when you move them. These two flicker ALL the time)

Edit2: but only when I place them in alternate vertical pixel positions! In the other vertical pixel positions, the image does not flicker - what does THIS mean about how the display is built? Only half of the pixels power manage?

Edit3: Wait, this is more interesting! Open up this: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/dotinvrgb2l.html
in Safari and make sure the window is abutting the toolbar (as high as the window can go) - it flickers. But for me, move it to the right of the screen, but still at the top: No flickering! I have no idea what this means - anybody have an electronic engineering degree?
--



Edit: for clarity/spelling