Chinese technology is horrible, and the entire tech industry there is based off of (literally) copying the west. Huawei is virtually unheard of outside of China, and is only big in China because they're Chinese.
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Huawei Ad Teases 'The Real AI Phone', Mocks Facial Recognition in Clear Dig at Apple
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Huawei is literally impossible not to be very well known in large parts of the world. To the point of them being more visible than either Samsung or Apple in many markets and dominating in large swathes of Europe.
I can't see how they 'literally' copy everything when they invest so much in R&D. Often more than Apple does.
Google and Microsoft has been doing AR for long time. Apple shows again, waiting others to start the market and claim the innovation by itself. You guys forgo Microsoft Hollywood Lens and so on.
iPhone is just overprice crap. iPhone X selling nearly 2K in Canada after tax? You tell me this is not overpriced? No thanks. I am happy with my Haiwei Honor 8 and P10.
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I fully agree with Chinese approach on way of development. Copy and steal isn't a big deal, if it helps a country to develop rapid. Rather than spending billions of dollar to do research and development from start, we can just borrow and use others technologies and do development from that point. This is smart way of doing stuff. There is no such thing called ethical. It is competition that very intense. And it is not like US of A doesn't spend resources on hacking other countries technologies.
It is like old Chinese saying: all articles are copy from someone else and it is up to you to select the best to copy (天下文章一大抄,看你会抄不会抄).
Western companies come to China for money and this is what they are here for. They are eyes on our market and our money. They came to China when we offer cheap labor and they want our money when we are rich. It is just old greedy capitalist. If they want come, it is silly for us not to use their stuff and help us create better and cheaper product. If western companies can't adopt and loading ground, then too bad. We offer cheaper product and we are aimed to dominate the market. Western companies that offers overpriced product will only find themselves in trouble and they need adopt. Apple is loading ground in China and other emerge market. It is only time Apple loss ground in other countries. When stupid carrier subsidy is things in past, iPhone will quickly loss its ground in western market.
P.S. while you guys were talking about democracy, rights and liberty, western power colonized half of the world. UK along with several western power sized the land, money fr China and use the money to develop its own. We remembers them and this is pay back time.
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The thing about payback is it is almost never meted out on the people who caused all the evils in the first place, but on innocent people who are actually appalled at what took place before them.
My ancestry is half Asian and a good many of my family died brutal deaths at the hands of westerners in past wars and their aftermaths. But if my mother and her family and I held onto that, we'd never have gotten anywhere in life. Fortunately we were raised to embrace the best in ourselves and pass that along to others. Not pass along payback.
People evolve their outlook and move on, so if this is about payback, China is stuck in the past they are trying so hard to leave behind. Most of the people you're dealing with now barely know what colonialism is, except through textbooks. The world would accomplish so much more together if we all were less concerned about payback for each other's past sins and perceived slights and instead focused on solving our mutual problems together.
It really is a horrible shame that your country wants to exploit our greedy short sighted executives and our greedy shortsighted executives want to exploit your markets and laborers. What a freaking mess. I wish Apple weren't mixed up in all of this in even the smallest of ways.
"There is no such thing called ethical". Okay folks, you heard it right here. This is no internet troll. This is honesty and frankness. This is the reality of what we get into when we go into business in China. This is the outlook. This is it. I was drawn to the Mate 9 and Honor 8 myself. I thought competition was a good thing. But then I started reading up on these companies, their origins, practices and goals and I'll just respectfully decline, thank you very much.
Also, it's not even necessary to be attempting to do business with China to run afoul of this outlook. As a young developer, many years ago, my husband had the nasty surprise of coming across the software he worked long hours on for strictly the US market copied and repackaged and sold in the US by a Chinese "developer." At the time, we were shocked by the brashness of the theft, but over time we have become more familiar with the reality of things.
There is much hospitality and courtesy from Chinese merchants and Chinese business. I have met many wonderful Chinese people over the years and treasure their kindness and friendship and the beauty and richness of their art and culture. I acknowledge that and will leave on this positive note.
There is a tremendous difference between being first to market and first to viable market. Yeah, Microsoft made tablet computers more than a decade before Apple. Yeah, plenty of companies were making smartphones before Apple. There were dozens of huge companies making computers before Apple too. The difference should be obvious but I will write it out for you: Apple is usually the first to make a generally intuitive and useful product.
As for your praise of the Chinese economic model, what you are describing is the "race to the bottom" and nobody wins. I honestly don't know why companies still build things in China. You'd think they would have learned by know. China will steal everything you have, undercut your business, and congratulate themselves as if they did something remarkable.
Quick frankly... There is nothing revolutionary or special with Apple's AR kit.
Regarding with race to the bottom, consumer demand cheaper and better products. Would you go back 300 dollar plate where you can spend $1 on dollar store. Whoever offers cheaper and good quality stuff will eat the market. This apparently works for Chinese smartphone makers. Huawei is now the second largest phone makers and soon will replace Apple as world largest phone makers.
iPhone will follow suit with Mac, become niche produce. When carriers stop offer subsidy for iPhone, iPhone market will crash. lot of people do not realize the true cost of iPhone.
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Market is ruthless and whoever can deploy product faster and cheaper will win the market, regardless how you achieve.
China can develop fast because of its centralized government, country always above individual, fast response and absolute obey the order. We will do whatever we can to advance our country and Western country better repare.
One day, people will find out deomracy and ideals won't help country grow.
Wake up. When your union workers goes on strike, our worker will work hard. We can build a highway in a year, but you guys can't. Our cities develop at insealy fast speed. And Western countries are stuck with fighting with ideologies. Until you guys realize only way for country to grow is speed and efficiency, then you guys will still fighting for these none sense, such has should third gender exist.
People exist for only one thing, creating vaule to the society and obey the order.
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Sweet Jesus and Cthulhu!
I think I'd rather die in disorder than live in your Orwellian-Borg (Star Trek Sci-Fi reference) dystopia. I will rebel against your hideous ideology to my last breath even if it means my last breath. And speaking of JC, that's my highest order, not your regime. And Cthulhu is pretty badass, too. Well revel in it all you like, just don't expect to impose it on us.Oh and AR Kit isn't special to you because Huawei hasn't gotten around to copying it yet.
I know plenty about how business works. The problem is you condone the wholesale theft of property. Of course shady Chinese companies can undercut others because they do not have to spend on R&D, dump all over the environment, treat people as chattel, and sadly think it is all justifiable because “people only exist for one thing, creating value and obeying”. I am yet to see anything genuinely novel come from a Chinese manufacturer... and your kind of thinking will hurt Chinese economy far worse... just wait until the offshoring of Chinese jobs accelerates as Chinese people start wanting a bigger cut of the pie. Race to the bottom... everyone loses.
Lastly, please don't respond with more political ideology. Let's get back on topic please.
If anything, I don't understand why these Chinese phone manufacturers even want to get into the business after seeing so many others initially “succeed” and then fail because their profit margins are too thin. As we've seen time and time again, it is the whole gadget that matters... and Hauwei is competing with other Android vendors not Apple. Their only hope is to make their own ecosystem otherwise people will move to the next new shiny cheaper android device.
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Lets see Huawei is
1 Financed by western money
2 A benefactor of USA technology transfer
3 Caught out weaponizing the IP they where given.
4 A state owned communist company.
But keep believing that they are your friends and one day soon, a hard wake up call will happen.
If Huawei wants to impress someone who is awake like me, create something original.
Huawei is not state owned. China is not communist.
Huawei just got world first processor capable of 5G.
Done. You know nothing about China and Huawei. Just other ignorant American.
I don't but my husband knows people who fled the regime and he's going to start asking questions and follow up on what they've already said, which wasn't positive. And beyond that I'll honor the request to drop this and keep it about Huawei. Their ad campaign is rather a turn off and the tone comes at a bad time. I wonder whom they are targeting. A more humorous and less arrogant tone would work better if comparing oneself to the competition.
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Not because of spying, but because "it has the potential to insert spying software", which can be used against ANY router companies. So, in reality, the REAL reason is more likely a bribe / lobbying from Cisco.
Lol, Chinese propoganda is almost as good as North Korea I see. Enjoy your half assed roads and buildings with your copied phones that keep imitating western technology. When China comes up with something original, wake me up.
Mobile business in China is cutthroat competitive. So everyone is trying to stay ahead and niceties get thrown out.
If this same competitive scenario is transplanted to US, apple would be long dead already.
To buyers in Asia, the only thing apple has left is the dwindling perception of its high tech (thus justifying high price) and brand prestige. Don't talk about apple ecosystem as very very few are locked in it as things like iMessage/icloud etc are just irrelevant.
So if the competitions can tear down the high tech aspect then the brand prestige also crumbled along. That's why specs are played up.
Many Americans are still ignorant and look down on everything non apple as inferior quality and low tech and stolen/copied.
Asian used to view Apple the other way (i.e high tech high quality) but not anymore. They have experienced these China brands and there realised there is nothing inferior about them whether specs or build quality or software capabilities.
You sound across like a heavily biased and possibly even racist ("We remembers them and this is pay back time") Chinese person. The Chinese approach to "development" is to copy things and not innovate. It's ridiculous and it is shamelessly embarrassing. The west (particularly the west coast of the US) creates technology, and the Chinese market just sells cheap and often dangerous poorly made imitations. Even food in China is often fake (fake beef, fake honey, etc). Obviously not everything out of China is fake or an imitation, but it says something about the culture there when it has the world's largest market for fake products and imitations.
Western colonialism expired hundreds of years ago, and China's corrupt authoritarian government is a curse not a blessing. That's why so many Chinese people are doing whatever they can to flee the country and earn a degree in the west.
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I don't really know firsthand what the Chinese have access to in their own country. What gets released to the west has been of dubious build quality and while the specs sounded good on paper, the products I have held in my hands and tried did not work consistently well enough to shame even my iPhone SE. It's apparent where the corners are cut. I've refrained from ranting out criticisms of these phones on the Android threads out of respect to people who are enthusiastic about them. Everyone has different tastes and needs (which I try to respect even if I have strong feelings pro and con about certain manufacturers).
Unfortunately with the Chinese phones, it does go beyond business and consumer considerations for myself. It does get into ethics, values, politics, national security and a whole lot of messy things we can't discuss in this thread. Huawei and our forum's proud Chinese nationalist have already spelled out what the endgame is and how it's to be played. So, to Huawei, I say a polite "no thank you." I value too many things that ceding advantages to Huawei would endanger. I'm sure they don't care and will be quite happy without my business. If you value their products and workmanship, enjoy!
This is an impressive collection of false assumptions and generalizations.
You are right that many are not interested in the Apple ecosystem. But this also means many are not tied to this week’s “new shiny” either. This is as true in China as it is in Europe.
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lovingteddy is trolling us. I know many people from China. Chinese LUST after premium foreign products... but because many cannot afford them, knockoffs are popular and the government encourages this IP theft. My Chinese friends (I met most in school: Harvard/Oxford) told of how there are tremendous problems with fake/toxic/dangerous products. Everything from fake eggs to toxic baby food, poisonous drywall, deadly electronics, and defective high speed train rails, and collapsing CTV headquarters. He says “take a look at our cities” yet most of the time you cannot because of the severe pollution. These are facts and no need to debate while thread goes off topic.
Please, everyone stop feeding the propaganda repeating troll
I personally don’t know why/how any of these companies bother... seriously. When Apple is making 95% of the profit in the phone biz and everyone else is in the Android shark tank, why jump in?
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I think what you are ranting are developmental/social issues in China. May not be so relevant to the discussion at hand. Granted that some of these companies like Huawei started out copying Iphone (heck the whole mobile industry copied Iphone at the beginning) but now the situations has changed. Android has given them this chance since Google gave the platform for free. THey just build on top of it. And they have done pretty well in this since now Apple needs to compete with them (in the premium market). 5 years ago this scenario in unthinkable. apple is apple and the rest are low end throwaway phones. But now these companies have resources and money and a huge pool of cheaper engineers/researchers (compared to west) to come out with their own products.
And it is just typical western naivety to think out of the 1.4 bil people in China, there are no innovators only copiers. Just look at WeChat/Ali eco-system. They have basically leapfrogged what Apple/west have been trying to do for aeons. And WeChat /Ali are very aggressive in extending their eco-systems to other countries in Asia. I bet before long they will decimate the like of Apple/Samsung Pay/eco-system in these countries.
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He may be trolling, but the discussion brings out the opportunity to shed light on the attitudes of the industry leaders behind such arrogant ads as Huawei's. Chinese leaders in fields as diverse as entertainment and media to computers and phones have quite openly couched their ambitions in terms similar to what Teddy has employed here. And it's not just the leaders. One of the interviews I read was with a film student who sounded quite a bit like our Teddy.
For all I know, LovingTeddy is a bored grandma in Des Moines, but he does a pretty credible impression of someone mired in collective thought.
Where is your Chinese friend from? LOL... Your blind hate to China is to a laughable level. Yes, we get problem, this is growing pain and we will solve the problem. Still remember good old days when child labor is normal in UK?
Before you think everything in USA is Handy and Danny, look at your city like Detorit and Chicago. Look at your gun murder rate, look at your aging road and bridge, look at inefficient government and inability to adopt and change.
Chinese way of doing things has its own problem. We full acknowledge that, however it is only way for us to see such rapid development. You have to start somewhere. Only two or three decades ago, you guys are laughing Japanese products, look how many Japanese cars running in your American road? How many of you guys using Sony products? So was Korean products and you guys still mocking Samsung.
This is very good. As long as you guys are still in the American Exceptional dream, you guys will never learn. No matter how many US companies fail, you guys will just think someone else is to blame. But hey, who cares. It isn't like GM is going to bankruptcy anytime soon...oh wait
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WeChat is pretty cool and innovative from what I've heard about it. It's very unique and suited to Asian culture and could probably adapt well outside of Asia, too. That's something to be proud of. However this is about Huawei. I'm about to fall asleep here so I'm going to go read some iOS news and see this thread again in the morning after some coffee.
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America is a hot mess at the moment with hurricanes and opiod epidemics and whatnot, but our ideals are awesome and will carry us through as they always have. China might be awesome to live or work or travel in with its new buildings and infrastructure, but its ideals may remain uniquely its own. In other words, not for me, thank you. I'm glad you're content.
It is about Huawei too. Have you tried their P10 or Mate or even mid range Honor phones? Feel them in your hand and you'll be hard pressed to fault them in quality compared to your iphones. Check out the specs and they leaves the iphone hardware to shame. Their success have some elements of copying/following just like Apple. It is just hypocritical of those who are so forgiving of Apple using and copying others but not others copying/following Apple.
Just the fact that Huawei can manufacture on their own hundred of millions of phones plus coming out with the Kirin chipset and setting up shops/resellers all over world is something Apple can't even do.
Your post is well reasoned until you wrote “Huawei can manufacture on their own hundred of millions of phones plus coming out with the Kirin chipset and setting up shops/resellers all over world is something Apple can't even do”. This is quite wrong. Ignoring that, yeah, Huawei makes a decent device but nothing exceptional. Previous models have had problems like poor battery, underperforming display, but I think the physical engineering has been reliably good. I am sure their “real AI phone” will improve on some things but I would be absolutely shocked if it outperforms the A11... in fact, it would be impressive if it has even half the performance. The problem ALL android based devices have is that the OS is never optimized for the hardware so spec inflation is quite meaningless. So it needs more RAM, CPU, GPU horsepower to approach what Apple does. There are major downsides to spec inflation. It drives up component costs, increases power consumption, and so on. Likewise, Android holds back novel feature development because the OS is not integrated with the hardware. If Huawei wants to impress and find their own market, they should make their own novel OS, App Store, media store, accessory market, and so on. Again, the beauty of Apple is the whole ecosystem. It is a genuinely great experience. There is a reason why iPhones resell well while Android devices do not.
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Shanghai mostly, a few from Hong Kong. Good people. Who says I hate the Chinese? I object to your blind nationistic propaganda especially because it is far off topic. BTW, I know people from all over the world (one of the best things about going to Harvard and Oxford). No country is full of perfection.
Huawei makes a decent product. But it is not competing with iOS, it is competing with Samsung phones and other Android based phones. I expect that Huawei's “real AI” phone will not do well because it will be as expensive if not more expensive than the Samsung Note 8. Yet even Samsung's mobile division struggles to turn a profit even though Samsung makes most of the expensive components (OLED, memory, CPU).
P10 didn't come here for me to try it out, but a reviewer on Android Central said they cut an odd corner, I think it was lack of oleophobic coating on the display glass. I went through that with my HTC 10 lacking the coating on the camera lens and it was a pain. I can imagine it's worse when your display is like that without putting a protector on it. But the rest of the review was positive. I tried the Mate 9 and the Honor 8. They're good for their price points, but there was a roughness to the camera performance and odd hiccups here and there, so I decided when it's time for me to survey that price point for my one and only phone, I would look for deals on an older model flagship Samsung, Pixel or IPhone. It probably will be only a year or two when Huawei or Xiaomi does produce a phone that rivals IPhone and Samsung in design and build quality, but customer service won't be up to par in the US for awhile beyond that. It will take time to build that kind of service infrastructure. Even Samsung isn't quite there yet. I have no idea when they will turn the corner like Samsung and become real innovators.
I'm not that impressed that Huawei can set up shop and resellers all over the world "when Apple can't" (though they actually can and have after being persuaded or required by law to invest into infrastructure and economic development initiatives in some countries--and well they should). Chinese companies are very adept, having a long history of extensive international trade in resources and products that predates their industrialization. I'd be rather shocked if they couldn't.