Huawei Continues to Catch Apple, But Still Fighting to Gain Popularity in United States

[recoil80]

"Huawei's biggest problem is that it still lacks considerable brand awareness in the western world."

So the thing we say about Huawei is, "Who are they?"

It was true until last year, at least in my country.
Now Huawei has its own space inside the equivalent of Best Buy, just like Samsung and Apple. But they usually have shop assistants there, while Apple doesn't (they have Apple stores, so it makes sense). They are even airing ads about their latest smartphone with Leica, so they're gaining popularity.
Apple is still the brand with the best visibility inside the store, and even on fliers when they're doing some sales, but Samsung is just behind and Huawei is the third big name

 

[44267547]

LOL!

It works for me though. My iPhone is jailbroken so I can browse the file system, Dropbox still works (they cut us off two years ago, but we have a guy maintaining a PowerPC build for us) and I have a Fluid app for messaging through my iPhone using Remote Messages.

My G5 Quad and the rest do everything I need and they happen to be able to use Google services.

I get by even during the times I have no jailbreak.

That's great. But a lot of us don't have jailbroken iPhones and there's a very small community that do. I think Citysnaps was being facetious with you. And I think it's safe to say that jailbroken iPhones are not for everyone and it has its abilities, but I'm not sure everyone appreciates it's advantages depending on the persons wants or needs.

 

[justperry]

On a more generic note, look at all the prestigious car brands like Ferraris, Buggati, Aston, etc they all have the same constraint as Toyota and Honda, yet their designs look vastly different from everyone else. Each one is a unique piece of art.

I just say this, a car is not a phone!

Same principle applied.

No.
There's a huge difference here, a phone can only be less then 10 mm thick, can't have huge bezels and can't be much bigger than the display, you are bound to certain dimensions.
A car is much bigger and therefor you have much more room for (totally) different design.

Communist China Spy Phone.. UMM NO THANKS... Never would I buy from this company. Id rather buy a google phone or samsung but never anything like this from China state run company...

As if your government doesn't spy on you, think before you comment, the NSA is probably the biggest spy agency in the world, they have all your data already.

 

[H2SO4]

No.
There's a huge difference here, a phone can only be less then 10 mm thick, can't have huge bezels and can't be much bigger than the display, you are bound to certain dimensions.
A car is much bigger and therefor you have much more room for (totally) different design.



As if your government doesn't spy on you, think before you comment, the NSA is probably the biggest spy agency in the world, they have all your data already.

JP you’ve nailed it. This is why small cars tend to look not as nice as those bigger models that have the space to bake in to the design long flowing lines and louvres and slats that don’t look like wonky holes.

 

[itsamacthing]

My Mate 9 has been a great phone so far... but I do not use it for email, contacts, cal...that is still the domain of my iPhone. The camera is excellent on my Mate 9, and it always works unlike my iPhone which comes up black most the time. The finger scanner also works more consistently and fast on my Mate 9. Don't really care about who copies who's design anymore... phones are all converging to a point now, there is no place else left to go.

 

[Technarchy]

Well on the upside anyone that wants a Huawei can probably get one easy. Don't expect lines out the door for any release.

 

[Breaking Good]

They do that now..they buy a Samsung or Lg or some other phone that they've heard of.
And Apple still gets 94% of the profits because they make a better product.
All of those are not the same quality as an Iphone no matter how much of the look they steal.

That's because there are still enough people who perceive the value in Apple's smartphone. But eventually smartphones will be viewed just like toasters where most people will buy the cheapest one that works.

Now, if I could predict the exact point that this happens, well, I wouldn't be posting on Macrumors. I'd be off buying my own private island somewhere.

 

[symphara]

It was true until last year, at least in my country.
Now Huawei has its own space inside the equivalent of Best Buy, just like Samsung and Apple. But they usually have shop assistants there, while Apple doesn't (they have Apple stores, so it makes sense). They are even airing ads about their latest smartphone with Leica, so they're gaining popularity.
Apple is still the brand with the best visibility inside the store, and even on fliers when they're doing some sales, but Samsung is just behind and Huawei is the third big name

Somewhat similar experience here. I went to the Swisscom shop (this is the biggest mobile operator) and Huawei has the most prominent stand, right at the entrance, where they showcase the P10s.

I did a bit of travel in Europe for Easter, and I saw lots of Huawei advertising, and all the local operator shops I've been to (Vodafone, Orange etc) have Huawei phones on display.

It got a lot of traction in an amazingly short time. I knew of Huawei from years ago (I used to work for the telecom branch of a big multinational and they bought some products from us), they were the most professional Chinese company I dealt with. Their foray into the mobile phone space has been like a blitzkrieg.

Personally I think the Mate 8 followed by the P9 have been massive hitters and put them on the map in Europe. The current P10 is not as big as an improvement (and a little too expensive in my opinion), but if they build on what worked in the past (top-notch build quality, great specs, great price) they'll do fine.

And Apple still gets 94% of the profits because they make a better product. All of those are not the same quality as an Iphone no matter how much of the look they steal.

I think Apple makes a lot of profit because of their fantastic marketing (fashion tech/lifestyle) coupled with copious amounts of vendor lock-in. For example, iMessage works really well in the US because it has critical mass - in Europe, nobody I know using an iPhone cares about iMessage, they're all on WhatsApp. If people use cross-platform apps and services, the result is a much smaller market share for Apple. Otherwise the iPhone is an uninspiring product, no matter how hard I look at it, I don't like it and cannot be convinced to buy one.

 

[dilbert99]

Then you'll likely never buy anything!

Or he buys them from an American company that bought them from a Chinese company.
So technically, not buying them from a Chinese company.
[doublepost=1493379572][/doublepost]

I think Apple makes a lot of profit because of their fantastic marketing (fashion tech/lifestyle) coupled with copious amounts of vendor lock-in. For example, iMessage works really well in the US because it has critical mass - in Europ

I bought a Samsung S5 for my son because I did not upgrade my iPhone 6 to a 7 and pass the 6 down the family.
Now it irks me at the lack of compatability in the Apple eco system.

As you piss off people they start to love companies less and look for alternative.
I've now replaced my rMBP with a Dell XPS.

just looking around to see what i replace my iPhone 6 with, nothing catching my eye too much at the moment in either Android/Apple camp.

 

[TechGeek76]

Let's compare iPhone vs. any other ONE phone. Let's see how those numbers stack up. Somehow I don't think Samsung or any other company would want people to see those results.

Those other companies don't make just one phone, and neither does Apple.

 

[I7guy]

[...]
I think Apple makes a lot of profit because of their fantastic marketing (fashion tech/lifestyle) coupled with copious amounts of vendor lock-in. For example, iMessage works really well in the US because it has critical mass - in Europe, nobody I know using an iPhone cares about iMessage, they're all on WhatsApp. If people use cross-platform apps and services, the result is a much smaller market share for Apple. Otherwise the iPhone is an uninspiring product, no matter how hard I look at it, I don't like it and cannot be convinced to buy one.

Or alternatively Apple has identified their customer base and produces a product for them. Apples strength is partly due to its successful iMessage and FaceTime products, coupled with the best hardware and best support, imo. Huawei has a long way to catch up with that.

 

[symphara]

Or alternatively Apple has identified their customer base and produces a product for them.

I agree. No shortage of pretentious snobs out there.

Apples strength is partly due to its successful iMessage and FaceTime products, coupled with the best hardware and best support, imo. Huawei has a long way to catch up with that.

The support is probably a little better than the others - I'm not sure - although pretty expensive. AppleCare is expensive (on top of expensive hardware), and fixing a broken screen is also expensive.

As for the iPhone hardware itself, I think it's very hard to argue it's "best". They don't have the best screens, nor the best cameras, nor the best battery life etc.

The hardware is one of the reasons why I won't buy an iPhone. The 4" and 4.7" screens are simply too small by today's standards (thus far from "best"), and while the 5.5" phone does have an adequately large screen, the phone itself is way too large and unwieldy (thus far from "best").

Honestly, I think their hardware sucks. Add to that an OS that's slow and awkward to use - nearly any action requires more presses/swipes etc compared to Android, forces me to use iTunes (which I hate) etc., the severe customisation and feature disparity when compared to Android, add the huge prices, this all makes for a really crappy value proposition.

If they made a good phone I'd buy it. But I'm not into fashion tech, I don't care to be perceived as having an expensive phone, I just want a phone that I can use really well. As it stands, I wouldn't get an iPhone if the most expensive one was $300. Not worth it, for me.

Now I'm off installing my new 1080Ti

 

[eyoungren]

That's great. But a lot of us don't have jailbroken iPhones and there's a very small community that do. I think Citysnaps was being facetious with you. And I think it's safe to say that jailbroken iPhones are not for everyone and it has its abilities, but I'm not sure everyone appreciates it's advantages depending on the persons wants or needs.

I know he was being sarcastic. I chose to run in a different direction with that.

And I understand that not too many people are like me.

However, MacRumors maintains a sizable PowerPC Mac community and a sizable jailbreak community. I'm active in both of those forums.

In any case, my point was that in my not needing Apple's services I feel neither 'locked in' nor do I feel as if I benefit by staying with Apple.

I simply use the Apple/non-Apple products I like and make it work.

 

[I7guy]

I agree. No shortage of pretentious snobs out there.


The support is probably a little better than the others - I'm not sure - although pretty expensive. AppleCare is expensive (on top of expensive hardware), and fixing a broken screen is also expensive.

As for the iPhone hardware itself, I think it's very hard to argue it's "best". They don't have the best screens, nor the best cameras, nor the best battery life etc.

The hardware is one of the reasons why I won't buy an iPhone. The 4" and 4.7" screens are simply too small by today's standards (thus far from "best"), and while the 5.5" phone does have an adequately large screen, the phone itself is way too large and unwieldy (thus far from "best").

Honestly, I think their hardware sucks. Add to that an OS that's slow and awkward to use - nearly any action requires more presses/swipes etc compared to Android, forces me to use iTunes (which I hate) etc., the severe customisation and feature disparity when compared to Android, add the huge prices, this all makes for a really crappy value proposition.

If they made a good phone I'd buy it. But I'm not into fashion tech, I don't care to be perceived as having an expensive phone, I just want a phone that I can use really well. As it stands, I wouldn't get an iPhone if the most expensive one was $300. Not worth it, for me.

Now I'm off installing my new 1080Ti

Nothing like some generalizations and name calling to take the place of sound logic in debate. Good job there.

As for the hardware, i think it's easy to argue it's the best, but recognizing it's completely subjective and this has been covered ad-nauseum here at MR.

And what you said about iOS, I agree the same about android: "slow and awkward" to use...again covered ad-nauseum here in MR.

As far as a phone the iPhone 7 is miles better than even the newly released s8.

So there you have it, various opinions.

But without support in the carriers huawei has a tough row in the US.

 

[mib1800]

I am on my second china brand phone (hw mate8->oppo r9s plus), and they are not cheap quality. In fact the "upper mid-range" r9s+ has a better built quality than iphone. The metal frame feels sturdier, better polished and looks much nicer with its chamfer edges and string antenna lines. 16 MP wide angle front cam and 16 MP rear f1.7 OIS cam, AMOLED edge-edge 6 in screen, 6 Gb RAM - all can be had for 1/2 the price of iphone.

For people in the west, due to lack of exposure to these phones, are easily prejudiced thus dismissed them as cheap copies. But from personal experience using these phones nothing is further from the truth. Yes, there are lots of similarity in design but that's about all to it. The internals and software are totally different. In fact certain aspects of O/S and UI are done better than Samsung and Apple/

Actually, if you ask me 2 years ago I would tell to be wary of quality of china brands phone but now I would say to you that you are out of your mind to pay 2x more for an Iphone. I think people in china are also coming to realize the same conclusion. Some of you in the west may think chinese are mostly peasant poor so they cannot afford an iphone, are also dead wrong. There are so many rich middle class chinese who dont blink paying the price of iphone. But in recent trends, iphone sales volume (not just market share) has receded a lot in a growing china market.

 

[I7guy]

I am on my second china brand phone (hw mate8->oppo r9s plus), and they are not cheap quality. In fact the "upper mid-range" r9s+ has a better built quality than iphone. The metal frame feels sturdier, better polished and looks much nicer with its chamfer edges and string antenna lines. 16 MP wide angle front cam and 16 MP rear f1.7 OIS cam, AMOLED edge-edge 6 in screen, 6 Gb RAM - all can be had for 1/2 the price of iphone.

For people in the west, due to lack of exposure to these phones, are easily prejudiced thus dismissed them as cheap copies. But from personal experience using these phones nothing is further from the truth. Yes, there are lots of similarity in design but that's about all to it. The internals and software are totally different. In fact certain aspects of O/S and UI are done better than Samsung and Apple/

Actually, if you ask me 2 years ago I would tell to be wary of quality of china brands phone but now I would say to you that you are out of your mind to pay 2x more for an Iphone. I think people in china are also coming to realize the same conclusion. Some of you in the west may think chinese are mostly peasant poor so they cannot afford an iphone, are also dead wrong. There are so many rich middle class chinese who dont blink paying the price of iphone. But in recent trends, iphone sales volume (not just market share) has receded a lot in a growing china market.

So now iPhone users are "out of their mind" to pay 2x for an iPhone. According to what value system is that?

You can't even use this brand on cdma is a non-starter for many people including me. The phone is nice but it's another android phone in a sea of phones that all look alike and all are vying for the slim left over profits.

Undoubtedly these phones have come a long way but their build quality is only surface deep, imo.

The lack of buy in for the carriers will limit this phones acceptance.

 

[mib1800]

So now iPhone users are "out of their mind" to pay 2x for an iPhone. According to what value system is that?

You can't even use this brand on cdma is a non-starter for many people including me. The phone is nice but it's another android phone in a sea of phones that all look alike and all are vying for the slim left over profits.

Undoubtedly these phones have come a long way but their build quality is only surface deep, imo.

The lack of buy in for the carriers will limit this phones acceptance.

What value system? Non personal preference and bias, money and functionality point count value system.

CDMA what's that? Any place still using this ancient system? Thought everywhere has moved on to WCDMA or LTE/+.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

This is one major reason people need to know.
Thousands of low-priced Android phones are reportedly sending user data to China

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-software-android-phones-stealing-us-data-report-2016-11

 

[kdarling]

Android is the one that's in trouble of becoming just another smartphone because most Android phones are essentially the same. If you're not Samsung, you're dead in the water.

Hardly.

All the smartphone companies which are making money for their owners don't think so.

In 2016, companies other than Apple and Samsung made over $3 billion in smartphone profit. Heck, even with a bad year, Huawei made $6 billion in 2016, about $800 million of that from smartphones.

Sure, it's not the billions that Samsung and Apple reap, but it's not chicken feed either.

Besides, even Apple has started out relatively small or in financial trouble. Look at them now. Anything can happen.

 

[wozmatic]

Wow a phone that doesn't have a stupid rear-protruding camera!?!

This definitely beats Apple in the physical design

 

[kdarling]

This is one major reason people need to know.
Thousands of low-priced Android phones are reportedly sending user data to China

Correct, cheap China phones which had ADUP system diagnostic software installed, were sending text and call info (encrypted for privacy) back to automated servers to help catch spam callers which could then be blocked automatically.

It's not malware. It's overenthusiastic customer service software. Once complaints rolled in, ADUP began putting out updates to disable the info.

It's similar to the third party diagnostic software that iPhones had for years, which likewise sent a ton of personal info back to help with finding bad cell towers, etc. No one knew or cared at first, since such diagnostic software used to be quite common on phones in the US.

 

[MrX8503]

Hardly.

All the smartphone companies which are making money for their owners don't think so.

In 2016, companies other than Apple and Samsung made over $3 billion in smartphone profit.

How many companies shared that $3B? Also how many of them were in the negative? Samsung and Apple take ~99% of smartphone profits.

 

[mib1800]

This is one major reason people need to know.
Thousands of low-priced Android phones are reportedly sending user data to China

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-software-android-phones-stealing-us-data-report-2016-11

Apple and google collect huge amount of non-US data back to US. In fact every app sends data back somewhere. So who are the evil ones spying on you depends on which part of the world you are living in.

Even the touted iOS "high security" and Apple relentless refusal to disclose any user info is just a ruse to instill a false sense of security so that some clandestine entity can get all the scoops about you when you let your hair down - so say the conspiracy theory.

 

[kdarling]

How many companies shared that $3B? Also how many of them were in the negative? Samsung and Apple take ~99% of smartphone profits.

No they do not. You've been misled by funny math adding in losses, not actual profit share. It was a cheap clickbait calculation method that only worked because companies like HTC and Moto were having massive losses. Worse, it could lead to absolutely idiotic results. See my previous posts on this topic.

Not to mention that it makes casual readers think that everyone else must be losing money selling phones. Some are, but interestingly, some even do it on purpose (LG for example, has said that they only sell phones to showcase their technology, and Xiaomi says they don't care about hardware profits as they make their money from services instead).

Now for reality:

In 2016, Apple made about 79% of actual world smartphone profit, and Samsung about 14%. That's still a huge majority, but it left about 7% of profits, which equals about $3.3 billion.

Sure, that was shared by dozens of companies, with some only making a few million a year, but hey, any profit is good.

 

[I7guy]

What value system? Non personal preference and bias, money and functionality point count value system.

CDMA what's that? Any place still using this ancient system? Thought everywhere has moved on to WCDMA or LTE/+.

What? Not sure of your point in the first paragraph other than bias exists and everybody has their own.

There's a huge chunk of the us cell market that uses cdma. Huawei is locked out of that.