Huawei's Founder Says He Would 'Protest' if China Retaliates Against Apple Over U.S. Trade Ban

[pshufd]

Asian countries especially China have better STEM education than any other country bar none. They just have that drive to survive - success is another story when you are competing against a billion or so other chinese STEM driven students. Their instinct to survive is just crazy...it's the culture and you can't compare that to the USA at all.

China is not a homogeneous country and they have huge number of poor people. They also have a growing middle-class and wealthy segments too. Not every kids is a STEM genius and there are reasons why a lot of Chinese want to raise their kids in the United States instead of China. And lots of them move here, set up households and raise them here.

I think that Singapore does far better than China at STEM education in general but that's partly due to the parents. I think that Finland does a pretty good job too.

But China has the numbers. If you take the kids with aptitude, then China has more because they have a much bigger population. There are all kinds of problems with Chinese education - they are not the Master Race that you make them out to be.

 

[ilikewhey]

China is not a homogeneous country and they have huge number of poor people. They also have a growing middle-class and wealthy segments too. Not every kids is a STEM genius and there are reasons why a lot of Chinese want to raise their kids in the United States instead of China. And lots of them move here, set up households and raise them here.

I think that Singapore does far better than China at STEM education in general but that's partly due to the parents. I think that Finland does a pretty good job too.

But China has the numbers. If you take the kids with aptitude, then China has more because they have a much bigger population. There are all kinds of problems with Chinese education - they are not the Master Race that you make them out to be.

I too doubt chinese education to a certain extend, but remember tons of chinese kids get their education abroad with student visa and get educated at places like mit, Stanford, cal tech etc, when I was in Boston tons asian kids with student visa makes up a good amount of student population there

 

[pshufd]

I too doubt chinese education to a certain extend, but remember tons of chinese kids get their education abroad with student visa and get educated at places like mit, Stanford, cal tech etc, when I was in Boston tons asian kids with student visa makes up a good amount of student population there

I thought that we were talking about K-12 as K-12 quality drives college quality. A lot of Chinese kids are educated for Undergrad and Graduate school in the United States but these kids come from parents who are wealthy enough to do so and with kids with high enough scores to do so. Or at least the ability to cheat the testing process so that they can get accepted here. There are lots of Chinese kids that come here that are mediocre students.

For an objective look, though, I would refer you to the TIMSS research where China doesn't even participate.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...d-pupil-rankings-science-maths-timss-results/

I think that they would overall be rather embarrassed if they did.

 

[ilikewhey]

I thought that we were talking about K-12 as K-12 quality drives college quality. A lot of Chinese kids are educated for Undergrad and Graduate school in the United States but these kids come from parents who are wealthy enough to do so and with kids with high enough scores to do so. Or at least the ability to cheat the testing process so that they can get accepted here. There are lots of Chinese kids that come here that are mediocre students.

For an objective look, though, I would refer you to the TIMSS research where China doesn't even participate.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...d-pupil-rankings-science-maths-timss-results/

I think that they would overall be rather embarrassed if they did.

I don’t doubt their stem prowess based on my experience that when I was majoring in physics in undergrad tons of Chinese kids in my curriculum were on student visa getting the 99 percentile and going back to China after graduation

 

[pshufd]

I don’t doubt their stem prowess based on my experience that when I was majoring in physics in undergrad tons of Chinese kids in my curriculum were on student visa getting the 99 percentile and going back to China after graduation

My workplace is 1/3rd white, 1/3rd Indian and 1/3rd Chinese. I'm Chinese myself. The ones that make it here are the cream of the crop. You might get the opinion that everyone from China and everyone from Indian is a STEM whiz but it just simply isn't the case. When I was in China a few decades ago, the average income was $30/month. They have large swaths of people that are still mired in poverty and it can be quite difficult to study when your nutrition is insufficient.

 

[ilikewhey]

First of all — Huawei is a larger company than Apple. Huawei sells more phones than Apple and this only makes up half of their revenue. And only 17% of Apple's business is in China. For Huawei the number is around 50%.

Between those two companies, even ignoring politics, Huawei is clearly far more more important to the Chinese economy.

Also, Apple is clearly a target. I'm pretty sure there are only two US companies that do billions of dollars worth of of business in China — and the other one is Boeing. Which do you think China would rather mess with? Their transport infrastructure or fancy consumer electronics?

Keep in mind Airbus does not have enough manufacturing capacity to replace Boeing in China. There are dozens of companies chomping at the bit to replace the iPhone — especially Huawei who are about to find themselves unable to compete in western markets where customers expect to buy apps on Google's store.

Ah yes forgot about Boeing, where they have lobbying power in every state here in the us,

 

[stylinexpat]

Why is definitely relevant. If you don't know why jobs left the USA then you can't bring them back.

Cost of wages isn't the problem. Factory jobs actually pay well. iPhone factory workers in China earn around $750/month which seems very low... until you compare it to the average wage of $220/month in that country. US factory workers earn an average of almost $80k per year.

When you consider the production capacity per employee, the higher salary in the US isn't all that significant. Wages are $80k per year in the USA because the work they're doing is worth that much.

The real problem is a lack of skilled labour. According to Forbes, one US manufacturing company they profiled said over 70% of people hired aren't qualified for the job. They're hired anyway because an unqualified worker is better than no worker, but it highlights the real problem.

There are not enough people who want manufacturing jobs in the USA. When people really want a job, they go to school and learn the necessary skills as an investment to a life long career. When people enter a job untrained, they often see it as a temporary thing and plan to quit immediately which means it's very risky for the company to pay their salary while they learn.

China has 12,000 schools focusing exclusively on vocational skills in the manufacturing industry - with a reported 29 million students nationwide. There are less than 150 vocational schools in the USA - and a lot of those have nowhere near the thousands of students in a typical Chinese school.

Bringing manufacturing back to the USA needs to be done at an educational level. There are jobs available, there's nobody qualified to fill the jobs.

An Employer at the factory in US compared to China would end up costing manufacturer owner at least 4 times what it would in China for their salary. That would increase cost by a good 3-4 times under the manufacturing expense category. That would surely affect wholesale cost by a significant margin. Then let’s not forget that manufacturing cost of factory itself in US would also probably be about 3 times more as well due to certain regulations,fees,permits,insurance and lawsuits manufacturer owners would have to put up with.

 

[jonnysods]

That's a pretty humble statement - much respect to him for saying that.

 

[pshufd]

An Employer at the factory in US compared to China would end up costing manufacturer owner at least 4 times what it would in China for their salary. That would increase cost by a good 3-4 times under the manufacturing expense category. That would surely affect wholesale cost by a significant margin. Then let’s not forget that manufacturing cost of factory itself in US would also probably be about 3 times more as well due to certain regulations,fees,permits,insurance and lawsuits manufacturer owners would have to put up with.

Until they stole your IP and used it against you.

But you'd be wealth and retired by then.

 

[cmwade77]

see samsung? no shame in admitting something like this

Except for the statements aren't true, Apple could go completely under today and we would still have mobile internet in the morning. Why? Because there is still Android, yes, it would mean one less competitor, but it would still be there and ultimately someone else would pick up for Apple.

Now this may not have been the case when the iPhone first appeared, but as it stands today, Apple is no longer essential to moving Smartphones forward and in fact they may actually be holding innovation back rather than advancing it like they used to do.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Prefere Samsung straight face than silly PR (wich says a LOT).

disagreed. a little bit of humility would go a long way in rebuilding relationships with people that don’t like samsung at all anymore
[doublepost=1559062319][/doublepost]

Except for the statements aren't true, Apple could go completely under today and we would still have mobile internet in the morning.

he’s not talking about going under today. he’s implying the creation of the iPhone.

 

[stylinexpat]

Except for the statements aren't true, Apple could go completely under today and we would still have mobile internet in the morning. Why? Because there is still Android, yes, it would mean one less competitor, but it would still be there and ultimately someone else would pick up for Apple.

Now this may not have been the case when the iPhone first appeared, but as it stands today, Apple is no longer essential to moving Smartphones forward and in fact they may actually be holding innovation back rather than advancing it like they used to do.

I think Apple has been working more on polishing things up these last few years instead of innovating. Adding 1 more GB of RAM to smartphones, moving to OLED, etc..

 

[JamieLannister]

China is not a homogeneous country and they have huge number of poor people. They also have a growing middle-class and wealthy segments too. Not every kids is a STEM genius and there are reasons why a lot of Chinese want to raise their kids in the United States instead of China. And lots of them move here, set up households and raise them here.

I think that Singapore does far better than China at STEM education in general but that's partly due to the parents. I think that Finland does a pretty good job too.

But China has the numbers. If you take the kids with aptitude, then China has more because they have a much bigger population. There are all kinds of problems with Chinese education - they are not the Master Race that you make them out to be.

Chinese do not "move here" to the USA legally. They utilize specific illegal enterprises to help them gain access to the states; moving their money out of china illegally with the help of these enterprises and they "invest" in real estate all over the world to hold their money. The university scandals you hear (or don't hear) - the chinese are in deeper than any celebrity you hear on the news...just MSM dare not broadcast these activities committed by chinese foreigners.

China due to the enormous amount of people (who are also very poor) - they need to survive and will study their arse off 24/7 if need be just to survive. Otherwise it's rural farming and BS peasant work for them forever. Hi-tech is where the money is for them and without an education they will not survive.

The biggest difference is the DRIVE they have over seas. In America, kids these days don't even respect their teachers. In asia, teaching profession is highly respected.

Look at vancouver, b.c., look at the mess chinese investors have done to the real-estate market. It's because of these corrupt politicians in the usa that has caused so many problems for its own citizens. It's as if the $money comes first into the pockets of politicians and the citizens are all left with BS. It's time America gave a shxt about Americans. Look at NZ - new rules to prevent easy entry into their country due the mass influx of chinese immigrants.

Back on topic here: Huawei can go pound sand. They can continue to flourish in China - no one needs their tech and unless you too stupid to see the potential downside of a china run company with their computer network access installed into our infrastructures. They cannot be trusted pure and simple. If you like to own their stuff, go right ahead but don't go and say unpatriotic BS about how USA is being a total dick to Huawei, poor little Huawei is the victim. If you don't act now, by the next decade, it's going to be too late to recover. These Chinese sharks have a master plan and that plan is to take over the world ($$$$ = Power).

 

[0924487]

I’d suggest studying economics as common sense isn’t working.

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering

I have another degree in Economics, with a specialization is Econometrics.

 

[pshufd]

Chinese do not "move here" to the USA legally. They utilize specific illegal enterprises to help them gain access to the states; moving their money out of china illegally with the help of these enterprises and they "invest" in real estate all over the world to hold their money. The university scandals you hear (or don't hear) - the chinese are in deeper than any celebrity you hear on the news...just MSM dare not broadcast these activities committed by chinese foreigners.

China due to the enormous amount of people (who are also very poor) - they need to survive and will study their arse off 24/7 if need by just to survive. Otherwise it's rural farming and BS peasant work for them forever. Hi-tech is where the money is for them and without an education they will not survive.

The biggest difference is the DRIVE they have over seas. In America, kids these days don't even respect their teachers. In asia, teaching profession is highly respected.

Look at vancouver, b.c., look at the mess chinese investors have done to the real-estate market. It's because of these corrupt politicians in the usa that has caused so many problems for its own citizens. It's as if the $money comes first into the pockets of politicians and the citizens are all left with BS. It's time America gave a shxt about Americans. Look at NZ - new rules to prevent easy entry into their country due the mass influx of chinese immigrants.

Back on topic here: Huawei can go pound sand. They can continue to flourish in China - no one needs their tech and unless you too stupid to see the potential downside of a china run company with their computer network access installed into our infrastructures. They cannot be trusted pure and simple. If you like to own their stuff, go right ahead but don't go and say unpatriotic BS about how USA is being a total dick to Huawei, poor little Huawei is the victim. If you don't act now, by the next decade, it's going to be too late to recover. These Chinese sharks have a master plan and that plan is to take over the world ($$$$ = Power).

I work in a building with a lot of Chinese that come to the United States for Graduate School or to get Phds. They are here legally.

You seem to believe that anyone that wants to can go into STEM. A lot of people don't have the ability to regardless of how much they want to work. The Chinese are no different from any other racial group.

Some Chinese have drive and some don't. It's just like any other racial group. Culture can make a difference of course. Have you actually been to China? Is your family Chinese? Is everyone a STEM genius?
[doublepost=1559066621][/doublepost]

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering

I have another degree in Economics, with a specialization is Econometrics.

Then why don't you understand economics?

 

[JamieLannister]

I work in a building with a lot of Chinese that come to the United States for Graduate School or to get Phds. They are here legally.

You seem to believe that anyone that wants to can go into STEM. A lot of people don't have the ability to regardless of how much they want to work. The Chinese are no different from any other racial group.

Some Chinese have drive and some don't. It's just like any other racial group. Culture can make a difference of course. Have you actually been to China? Is your family Chinese? Is everyone a STEM genius?
[doublepost=1559066621][/doublepost]

Then why don't you understand economics?

I don't need to explain to you about the chinese for I have extensive experience with them via business and personal. I'm not talking about the ones that are here legally. I'm talking about the illegal ones which are far more than the legal ones. I've lived in China for 10 years from 2007. The culture of greed is driven by the enormous amount of unbalanced wealth. There are no good business deals in china unless you are chinese and work with someone in the political food chain. If you are foreign investor you will have to play by chinese rules which are often to your disadvantage. They know you need them more than they need you but this time the man in the white house says NO.
[doublepost=1559066973][/doublepost]I need to add all this news coverage is just China trying to play the victim. To make them look as if they are so innocent they have done nothing wrong but the orange man in the white house is the real asshxle. If you believe Huawei is a real victim then you need to move out of the USA pronto. They can ban apple's shxt if they wanted to but it serves them zero financial reason and they are after all after the $ bills.

 

[pshufd]

I don't need to explain to you about the chinese for I have extensive experience with them via business and personal. I'm not talking about the ones that are here legally. I'm talking about the illegal ones which are far more than the legal ones. I've lived in China for 10 years during from 2007. The culture of greed is driven by the enormous amount of unbalanced wealth. There is no good business deal in china unless you are chinese and work with someone in the political food chain. If you are foreign investor you will have to play by chinese rules which are often to your disadvantage. They know you need them more than they need you but this time the man in the white house says NO.
[doublepost=1559066973][/doublepost]I need to add all this news coverage is just China trying to play the victim. To make them look as if they are so innocent they have done nothing wrong but the orange man in the white house is the real asshxle. If you believe Huawei is a real victim then you need to move out of the USA pronto. They can ban apple's shxt if they wanted to but it serves them zero financial reason and they are after all after the $ bills.

It would help to be clear about who you are talking about. It was obvious who I was talking about from the context.

I'm quite familiar with the culture of greed from my family, and my wife's family and relatives.

 

[JamieLannister]

It would help to be clear about who you are talking about. It was obvious who I was talking about from the context.

I'm quite familiar with the culture of greed from my family, and my wife's family and relatives.

I'm not disrespecting any race here especially Chinese people. I'm saying all this nonsense about him saying how apple is his "teacher" is just nonsense. Huawei is run and controlled by China government. They have had a long history of backdoors in their networking hardware (you can argue the same goes with the NSA- opening up routers intercepted during shipping to install hardware backdoors back long time ago). The point is they are not the victims here and deserve every bit of pressure from the USA.

China has big plans and its time Americans protect themselves. Politicians are just terrible people in general. The ones in the past decade have done a very poor job of protecting citizens of the USA. It's time for some real change. It starts with IP theft and other big issues the biggest one I have issues with is foreign investments in real estate from china. Fair trade deals, please!

 

[techwhiz]

Dragging Apple into the war hurts China employment. Banning Apple reduces production at FoxConn.

 

[stylinexpat]

Chinese do not "move here" to the USA legally. They utilize specific illegal enterprises to help them gain access to the states; moving their money out of china illegally with the help of these enterprises and they "invest" in real estate all over the world to hold their money. The university scandals you hear (or don't hear) - the chinese are in deeper than any celebrity you hear on the news...just MSM dare not broadcast these activities committed by chinese foreigners.

China due to the enormous amount of people (who are also very poor) - they need to survive and will study their arse off 24/7 if need be just to survive. Otherwise it's rural farming and BS peasant work for them forever. Hi-tech is where the money is for them and without an education they will not survive.

The biggest difference is the DRIVE they have over seas. In America, kids these days don't even respect their teachers. In asia, teaching profession is highly respected.

Look at vancouver, b.c., look at the mess chinese investors have done to the real-estate market. It's because of these corrupt politicians in the usa that has caused so many problems for its own citizens. It's as if the $money comes first into the pockets of politicians and the citizens are all left with BS. It's time America gave a shxt about Americans. Look at NZ - new rules to prevent easy entry into their country due the mass influx of chinese immigrants.

Back on topic here: Huawei can go pound sand. They can continue to flourish in China - no one needs their tech and unless you too stupid to see the potential downside of a china run company with their computer network access installed into our infrastructures. They cannot be trusted pure and simple. If you like to own their stuff, go right ahead but don't go and say unpatriotic BS about how USA is being a total dick to Huawei, poor little Huawei is the victim. If you don't act now, by the next decade, it's going to be too late to recover. These Chinese sharks have a master plan and that plan is to take over the world ($$$$ = Power).

Since you brought up “Victim” card..

If one replaced “Chinese” with “Israelis or Jews” would you be offended or find that statement to be anti-Semitic..?

Show me proof that Huawei’s current smartphones have spyware and backdoors in them and tell me if you approve of Microsoft’s back door in Windows.. Are you also ok with Google’s backdoor for Gmail and messages..?
[doublepost=1559073530][/doublepost]

Dragging Apple into the war hurts China employment. Banning Apple reduces production at FoxConn.

But from China’s point of view is that if you will not let us sell our products in your country or other countries then why should we let you sell your products in our country..? This would be a good argument and they would have a point.

 

[B4U]

Yeah, because Apple are such the innovators these days...

The Face ID is still far superior to anything on the market, just to name one.

 

[stylinexpat]

The Face ID is still far superior to anything on the market, just to name one.

I know why too.. Over the years many people that have used iPhoto used names to associate images and pictures with them so this made it easy for Apple to use their Face ID over the years.

 

[JamieLannister]

Since you brought up “Victim” card..

Show me proof that Huawei’s current smartphones have spyware and backdoors in them and tell me if you approve of Microsoft’s back door in Windows.. Are you also ok with Google’s backdoor for Gmail and messages..?
[doublepost=1559073530][/doublepost]

stop. Just stop. "show me proof..." I don't need to show you jack dung. You might also want actual evidence NSA spies on its own citizens. How about proof Chinese didn't steal IP. How about proof they "innovated" everything themselves and have NOTHING to do with their strict china-advantage only business policies when foreigners come into the country wanting to do business.

If you still need proof China steals from everyone else to benefit themselves then you should really step outside the usa and see how China really works.

 

[stylinexpat]

stop. Just stop. "show me proof..." I don't need to show you jack dung. You might also want actual evidence NSA spies on its own citizens. How about proof Chinese didn't steal IP. How about proof they "innovated" everything themselves and have NOTHING to do with their strict china-advantage only business policies when foreigners come into the country wanting to do business.

If you still need proof China steals from everyone else to benefit themselves then you should really step outside the usa and see how China really works.

I spent more time in Asia then you did. Between Taiwan,China and Hong Kong I spent 25 years there and speak the language quite fluently. I understand their culture,customs, and business practice. Half the things I don’t agree with and half I agree with. I had no problems doing business with the Chinese. You just need to know how to work with them. In all honesty probably half are honest and half are not but one can not paint with a broad paint brush and say all are dishonest and thieves.

If you want to debate then you should provide evidence and backup your claims. If I posted something that was false feel free to show me what was false.

 

[fairuz]

Kyle Bass - made his fortune shorting subprime mortgages in 2006 talking to Keith McCulloch on China. With charts.

If you think that it's easy to manage over a billion people who have expectations, you are a political neophyte. What does a billion people rioting in the streets look like?

What is China's biggest problem?

China puts Muslims into "education camps" today. Their citizens are unarmed. Their government can apparently get away with a lot more than ours can.
[doublepost=1559110666][/doublepost]

Asian countries especially China have better STEM education than any other country bar none. They just have that drive to survive - success is another story when you are competing against a billion or so other chinese STEM driven students. Their instinct to survive is just crazy...it's the culture and you can't compare that to the USA at all.

I don't know if this is true. If you're basing it on what you see from Chinese immigrants to the US, immigrants are different people. They're wealthier, more ambitious, or both. If you've been in China for an extended period of time, then fine.
Also, American universities are better than Chinese ones. But our lower education is probably much worse, especially for STEM.
[doublepost=1559110948][/doublepost]

No.

Basic economics.

Care to offer a one-sentence explanation?
[doublepost=1559111166][/doublepost]

Prefere Samsung straight face than silly PR (wich says a LOT).

What straight face? They make annoying ads and complain about others' products. Makes them look like losers.
[doublepost=1559111353][/doublepost]It sounds like a humble and respectful view, but sadly, I don't trust any of it coming from this guy. Let them get wrecked.