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So your rebuttal is 99% of people dont understand some of the tech so why should techy people bother wanting it. Apple should just keep charging as much or more than competitors who are including more tech features (that peope do end up figuring out and liking at that). "Because ignorant average customer, whyz notz 💰💲💲💲💲💲 !" in a nutshell is the answer... Wow.

Its amazing how many apologists there are here defending Apple against the consumer wanting more for their money. Unless anyone's last name here is Cook, Ive, Cue, and crew, with a financial benefit in Apple extracting every penny from the consumer, everyone has EVERY RIGHT to question and demand more for your money as the consumer.

People here literaly act like they would somehow be personally hurt if their $999/1099 device had 120hz, smaller notch, bigger battery etc people are asking for. Arguing why you shouldn't want/need it. More for same/less money, ouch, the horrors!!!!

And yes, one can own a product and like it overall, yet still question the brand without being told to not let the door hit them. "Shut up and buy something else" is not a conversation that yields any actual forward-thinking result; there are too many the flock to anything with the fruit logo on it regardless how good or bad it is for Apple to keep doing it since money does talk.

But conversations can change attitudes, Apple does hear customers. Hence iOS 14- what 99%er wanted a default 3rd party mail app or browser, or cared more than what is built in? It was the loud voices of the "geek" community who got that done. None of those people going and buying Android would have solved that issue; drop in the bucket loss to something like Apple and institutes zero change
Has it occured to you that if people seem to be genuinely preferring their iPhones despite them "losing" to android phones in terms of features or functionality, then perhaps you should be the one to try and understand just why this is so, rather than simply assuming that we are tech-illiterate simpletons being taken for a ride by Apple?

Let's use the iPhone XR / 11 as an example. I remember that when they were announced, its 326PPI LCD display received much criticism by the tech community. Yet these phones went on to sell extremely well, showing that there is indeed a huge disconnect between what the more tech-savvy online community thinks is necessary in smartphone vs what the general consumer values is such a device. And if you asked the latter why, they will tell you that the display was good enough for them, the cameras were excellent, and the lower-resolution display directly contributed to better battery life, which everyone could appreciate, and the price remained affordable (all the more after trading in your smartphone).

On their own, none of these sound particularly enticing. However, put them together and you get the following:

1) The best processors Apple had to offer at the time, which all but guarantees 5-6 years of software updates minimum
2) Excellent battery life
3) Good displays
4) Not the best, but still great cameras all round (including vastly improved night photography)
5) Face ID
6) Affordable pricing while still being able to get the full iPhone 11 experience.

This is innovation to Apple - the art of knowing what to include, and just as importantly, what not to include in a device so as to enable their interpretation of a great user experience for the customer. These may not sound like industry-defining breakthroughs or first-mover items, but they are nevertheless features that can legitimately improve people’s lives on a daily basis.

This is why Apple remains so popular, and this is what we pay Apple to do - make the tough calls on what to include and exclude in a device. Apple's definition of innovation is very different from that of a company like Samsung, who often wants to be the first to do something just for the sake of being first or just so YouTube reviewers can gush over them.

But it's innovation nonetheless, and Apple's financial success shows that their definition of innovation is resonating with the mass consumer market even moreso than Samsung's. So get a Samsung device by all means if their take on innovation is what you desire, but before you criticise Apple for not innovating or have the temerity to chastise their user base as being average or ignorant, I suggest you educate yourself first.
 
Has it occured to you that if people seem to be genuinely preferring their iPhones despite them "losing" to android phones in terms of features or functionality, then perhaps you should be the one to try and understand just why this is so, rather than simply assuming that we are tech-illiterate simpletons being taken for a ride by Apple?

Let's use the iPhone XR / 11 as an example. I remember that when they were announced, its 326PPI LCD display received much criticism by the tech community. Yet these phones went on to sell extremely well, showing that there is indeed a huge disconnect between what the more tech-savvy online community thinks is necessary in smartphone vs what the general consumer values is such a device. And if you asked the latter why, they will tell you that the display was good enough for them, the cameras were excellent, and the lower-resolution display directly contributed to better battery life, which everyone could appreciate, and the price remained affordable (all the more after trading in your smartphone).

On their own, none of these sound particularly enticing. However, put them together and you get the following:

1) The best processors Apple had to offer at the time, which all but guarantees 5-6 years of software updates minimum
2) Excellent battery life
3) Good displays
4) Not the best, but still great cameras all round (including vastly improved night photography)
5) Face ID
6) Affordable pricing while still being able to get the full iPhone 11 experience.

This is innovation to Apple - the art of knowing what to include, and just as importantly, what not to include in a device so as to enable their interpretation of a great user experience for the customer. These may not sound like industry-defining breakthroughs or first-mover items, but they are nevertheless features that can legitimately improve people’s lives on a daily basis.

This is why Apple remains so popular, and this is what we pay Apple to do - make the tough calls on what to include and exclude in a device. Apple's definition of innovation is very different from that of a company like Samsung, who often wants to be the first to do something just for the sake of being first or just so YouTube reviewers can gush over them.

But it's innovation nonetheless, and Apple's financial success shows that their definition of innovation is resonating with the mass consumer market even moreso than Samsung's. So get a Samsung device by all means if their take on innovation is what you desire, but before you criticise Apple for not innovating or have the temerity to chastise their user base as being average or ignorant, I suggest you educate yourself first.

All great points, but 120hz is awesome and it’s a shame that Apple is falling behind the competition in this area.
 
Why can’t everyone understand it doesn’t matter to the 99% of the people, the 99% won’t even know what a refresh rate lol.
Like with any feature people will love it when it arrives until it does people will just ignore it and Make excuses why it’s not a big deal.
 
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Like with any feature people will love it when it arrives until it does people will just ignore it and Make excuses why it’s not a big deal.

The 99% won’t even do that because they don’t and won’t know what the tech stuff is.

So this thread is only relevant to the 1-2% who know and care.

With that being said Apple doesn’t care about the 1-2%. That’s why they are a $trillion+ company.
 
The 99% won’t even do that because they don’t and won’t know what the tech stuff is.

So this thread is only relevant to the 1-2% who know and care.

With that being said Apple doesn’t care about the 1-2%. That’s why they are a $trillion+ company.

If Apple truely felt like that then they may as well ditch the pro line models. Those are the phones which people want all the possible tech. That’s the phones which are over 1k. People who buy the cheaper models won’t care no but that doesn’t mean people should make excuses for apple to why these features are not here. Same with periscope lens not coming for another two years. Same thing really.

Just because most people don’t care about top end features but the people who are paying over 1k for phones certainly deserve those features.
 
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If Apple truely felt like that then they may as well ditch the pro line models. Those are the phones which people want all the possible tech. That’s the phones which are over 1k. People who buy the cheaper models won’t care no but that doesn’t mean people should make excuses for apple to why these features are not here. Same with periscope lens not coming for another two years. Same thing really.

Just because most people don’t care about top end features but the people who are paying over 1k for phones certainly deserve those features.

You don’t understand. The features don’t have to be there for Apple to sell sh*t of phones. They’ve sold loads of phones and will continue to sell loads without the features anyway.
 
You don’t understand. The features don’t have to be there for Apple to sell sh*t of phones. They’ve sold loads of phones and will continue to sell loads without the features anyway.

So because they sell a lot of phones that means they should not bring out features? Poor logic. So it’s ok to be slow in bringing out technology? But because they sell well it’s ok? Cmon. Sadly this kind of mindset is why apple can get away with delaying features.

The phones apple sell well is the iPhone 11 and SE level due to pricing. the pro models aren’t really selling well at all and they won’t thus year either given the rumours.
 
This is a non issue, most people won’t care or even know what 120hz display is. This year is rumoured to be a redesign year, people will probably be more focused on that and the fact that it will look like the iPad Pro/iPhone 4.
Personally if I don’t like this years iPhone update, I’ll simply keep my 11 Pro Max and wait until next year.
 
So because they sell a lot of phones that means they should not bring out features? Poor logic. So it’s ok to be slow in bringing out technology? But because they sell well it’s ok? Cmon. Sadly this kind of mindset is why apple can get away with delaying features.

The phones apple sell well is the iPhone 11 and SE level due to pricing. the pro models aren’t really selling well at all and they won’t thus year either given the rumours.

You just answered your issue...”Sadly this kind of mindset is why apple can get away with delaying features.”

They can do it because they can.
 
I have an iPhone, iPad and a Windows pc. I don’t use my iPad much. I would say I use my iPhone the most. I use my pc when I need to use Chrome extensions for my online business.

I’m not really in the Apple ecosystem. The only ecocentric thing I use is iMessage. I use all Google apps on my iPhone especially the Chrome mobile app. Even my contacts are synced via Google contacts.

For me Google is more cross platform.

Why do I prefer the iPhone over Android when I’m pretty much completely in the Google ecosystem? Because for me I prefer an app based focused phone which the iPhone is compared to Android. Android wins on the ‘production’ side. The iPhone wins hands down on the app side. Apps are just significantly better experience on iOS. If I needed a production mobile device I would have an Android phone.

Can you elaborate what a production phone actually is and why it does better than an iPhone? As fast as I can see they are both running apps. I’m curious how an Android phone is different in your perspective.
 
Can you elaborate what a production phone actually is and why it does better than an iPhone? As fast as I can see they are both running apps. I’m curious how an Android phone is different in your perspective.

From my experience apps on the iPhone are a much better experience and more in your face than Android. For me just look at the home screens and the apps are pretty prevalent on the iPhone.
 
So I own an iPad Pro (120hz screen) and an iPad Air (60hz). I move between them seamlessly, it's a matter of which is closer at hand. Never once have I thought, wow, this screen on the air is a real dog. or wow, how much better the iPad Pro screen is. Never notice it. just use it.

Lol! Same. I keep looking at my iPad Pro and moving things around and scrolling fast and I can't see anything at all which suggests it has a higher refresh rate. I'd love to be able to see what I paid extra for.
 
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Has it occured to you that if people seem to be genuinely preferring their iPhones despite them "losing" to android phones in terms of features or functionality, then perhaps you should be the one to try and understand just why this is so, rather than simply assuming that we are tech-illiterate simpletons being taken for a ride by Apple?

Let's use the iPhone XR / 11 as an example. I remember that when they were announced, its 326PPI LCD display received much criticism by the tech community. Yet these phones went on to sell extremely well, showing that there is indeed a huge disconnect between what the more tech-savvy online community thinks is necessary in smartphone vs what the general consumer values is such a device. And if you asked the latter why, they will tell you that the display was good enough for them, the cameras were excellent, and the lower-resolution display directly contributed to better battery life, which everyone could appreciate, and the price remained affordable (all the more after trading in your smartphone).

On their own, none of these sound particularly enticing. However, put them together and you get the following:

1) The best processors Apple had to offer at the time, which all but guarantees 5-6 years of software updates minimum
2) Excellent battery life
3) Good displays
4) Not the best, but still great cameras all round (including vastly improved night photography)
5) Face ID
6) Affordable pricing while still being able to get the full iPhone 11 experience.

This is innovation to Apple - the art of knowing what to include, and just as importantly, what not to include in a device so as to enable their interpretation of a great user experience for the customer. These may not sound like industry-defining breakthroughs or first-mover items, but they are nevertheless features that can legitimately improve people’s lives on a daily basis.

This is why Apple remains so popular, and this is what we pay Apple to do - make the tough calls on what to include and exclude in a device. Apple's definition of innovation is very different from that of a company like Samsung, who often wants to be the first to do something just for the sake of being first or just so YouTube reviewers can gush over them.

But it's innovation nonetheless, and Apple's financial success shows that their definition of innovation is resonating with the mass consumer market even moreso than Samsung's. So get a Samsung device by all means if their take on innovation is what you desire, but before you criticise Apple for not innovating or have the temerity to chastise their user base as being average or ignorant, I suggest you educate yourself first.
If Apple truely felt like that then they may as well ditch the pro line models. Those are the phones which people want all the possible tech. That’s the phones which are over 1k. People who buy the cheaper models won’t care no but that doesn’t mean people should make excuses for apple to why these features are not here. Same with periscope lens not coming for another two years. Same thing really.

Just because most people don’t care about top end features but the people who are paying over 1k for phones certainly deserve those features.


This.

We arent talking about their "budget" phone here, so Im not sure why the XR/11 is relevant. They wouldnt get 120hz or any of the advanced features for the price point (even though $400-500 Android devices somehow can pack 90 or 120hz OLEDs but I digress). The XR/11 were flat out overpriced for LCD phones in 2018-2019, regardless of how popular they were. Separating people from their money is a good business skill but nothing more. It doesnt make the product any more or less impressive

We're talking about PRO phones. $1000 and up. The iPad is "PRO" enough to get 120hz but apparently not the phone? So what "pro" features were you buying? OLED that $500 devices were using ad 1 extra camera? Because those are the current main differences between non-pro and pro; for $300/400 extra (Pro/Pro Max). Oh 1 gig of RAM, there is 50 cents of extra cost.

And let me go back to the sales mean nothing to the actual technology at issue. McDonald's sells the most burgers; they are FAR from the best burgers or even close. It's cheap, convenient and familiar. Same with the XR/11; want an iphone here's the cheapest modern one- shocker it sells the most being the cheapest modern year option (the SE is a niche model with a smaller than average screen).

Sales figures mean people are dumb enough to buy it en masse; not that it is necessarily "good/better" It lines Timmy's pockets to become the next billionaire. And that affects ANY of us how?

Apple makes the phone everyone wants, whether it is fashion or status symbol reasons; whatever the reason. That doesnt make it the best tech. And an honest company should always be trying to make the best product; the money comes with that

For some reason, there are a ton of apologists trying to tell us why we shouldnt care or dont need it; rather than why spending $1000 cant get us that. Lets ot forget Apple makes the highest industry profits despite not shipping the most devices as a company; so lets not pretend they are on razor-thin margins liek a $350-400 phone and cant give us more for the money. And how it would hurt them oh so badly if more was included for the same money.

Or typical like you dont like it "dont let the door hit you." That's a fanboy response when one cant bear to have a rational adult discussion :rolleyes: And yes, the average smartphone buyer IS ignorant on tech issues, sorry to break it to you. But yes, you are the "victim" in a victim mentality world we live in now, please do go on.... or rather not because I wont bother reading it.
 
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This.

We arent talking about their "budget" phone here, so Im not sure why the XR/11 is relevant. They wouldnt get 120hz or any of the advanced features for the price point (even though $400-500 Android devices somehow can pack 90 or 120hz OLEDs but I digress). The XR/11 were flat out overpriced for LCD phones in 2018-2019, regardless of how popular they were. Separating people from their money is a good business skill but nothing more. It doesnt make the product any more or less impressive

We're talking about PRO phones. $1000 and up. The iPad is "PRO" enough to get 120hz but apparently not the phone? So what "pro" features were you buying? OLED that $500 devices were using ad 1 extra camera? Because those are the current main differences between non-pro and pro; for $300/400 extra (Pro/Pro Max). Oh 1 gig of RAM, there is 50 cents of extra cost.

And let me go back to the sales mean nothing to the actual technology at issue. McDonald's sells the most burgers; they are FAR from the best burgers or even close.

Sales figures mean people are dumb enough to buy it en masse; not that it is necessarily "good/better" It lines Timmy's pockets to become the next billionaire. And that affects ANY of us how?

Apple makes the phone everyone wants, whether it is fashion or status symbol reasons; whatever the reason. That doesnt make it the best tech. And an honest company should always be trying to make the best product; the money comes with that

For some reason, there are a ton of apologists trying to tell us why we shouldnt care or dont need it; rather than why spending $1000 cant get us that. And how it would hurt them oh so badly if more was included for the same money.

The 11 pro is the best iPhone released. I’m sure the 12 Pro will be best iPhone released.
 
The 11 pro is the best iPhone released. I’m sure the 12 Pro will be best iPhone released.

Sorry but let me spit my drink out. 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Rah rah Apple rah rah 📣. It's the best we made rah rah📣.

Because in a new year we'd make a worse phone than last year :rolleyes: EVERY phone out there is better than its predecessor; that is just Apple marketing speak.
 
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This.

We arent talking about their "budget" phone here, so Im not sure why the XR/11 is relevant. They wouldnt get 120hz or any of the advanced features for the price point (even though $400-500 Android devices somehow can pack 90 or 120hz OLEDs but I digress). The XR/11 were flat out overpriced for LCD phones in 2018-2019, regardless of how popular they were. Separating people from their money is a good business skill but nothing more. It doesnt make the product any more or less impressive

We're talking about PRO phones. $1000 and up. The iPad is "PRO" enough to get 120hz but apparently not the phone? So what "pro" features were you buying? OLED that $500 devices were using ad 1 extra camera? Because those are the current main differences between non-pro and pro; for $300/400 extra (Pro/Pro Max). Oh 1 gig of RAM, there is 50 cents of extra cost.

And let me go back to the sales mean nothing to the actual technology at issue. McDonald's sells the most burgers; they are FAR from the best burgers or even close. It's cheap, convenient and familiar. Same with the XR/11; want an iphone here's the cheapest modern one- shocker it sells the most being the cheapest modern year option (the SE is a niche model with a smaller than average screen).

Sales figures mean people are dumb enough to buy it en masse; not that it is necessarily "good/better" It lines Timmy's pockets to become the next billionaire. And that affects ANY of us how?

Apple makes the phone everyone wants, whether it is fashion or status symbol reasons; whatever the reason. That doesnt make it the best tech. And an honest company should always be trying to make the best product; the money comes with that

For some reason, there are a ton of apologists trying to tell us why we shouldnt care or dont need it; rather than why spending $1000 cant get us that. Lets ot forget Apple makes the highest industry profits despite not shipping the most devices as a company; so lets not pretend they are on razor-thin margins liek a $350-400 phone and cant give us more for the money. And how it would hurt them oh so badly if more was included for the same money.

Or typical like you dont like it "dont let the door hit you." That's a fanboy response when one cant bear to have a rational adult discussion :rolleyes: But yes, you are the "victim" in a victim mentality world we live in now, please do go on....

People aren’t dumb for buying mid tier iPhones, it just goes to show that ‘Pro features’ and high prices are simply not appealing to the wider market. The iPhone 11/XR was successful because it occupied the previous premium price point and had enough of the must have features that the Pro iPhones had. I personally think £1k+ is overpriced for a smartphone and especially when you can get pretty much the same experience out of a mid tier device for £300 less. It’s less about features and more about value for money in today’s market and apart from enthusiasts, most people aren’t going to worry if their smartphone doesn’t have a 120Hz refresh rate. It’s a nice to have feature but not at all noticeable in the extreme.
 
Sorry but let me spit my drink out.

Rah rah Apple rah rah . It's the best we made rah rah.

Because in a new year we'd make a worse phone than last year :rolleyes: EVERY phone out there is better than its predecessor; that is just Apple marketing speak.

Apple won’t make a worse phone than the previous year.

The 11 Pro is the best iPhone to date with better features etc from previous iPhones. I’m sure the 12 Pro will be the best iPhone.
 
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No USB-C
No 120hz Display
No AptX-HD or LDAC High Res Audio codec support
No Dual Bluetooth Pairing
No WiFi 6 (just kidding I hope they have WiFi 6) MacBooks Dont but that’s a whole other rant.

Yeah, surely the AptX-HD / LDAC High Res Audio is definitely going to be a huge dealbreaker for most people. Whatever that is.

No Dual Bluetooth Pairing

You can pair multiple AirPods, AirPods Pro or PowerBeats Pro since iOS 13. Not sure about other bluetooth devices.

No WiFi 6 (just kidding I hope they have WiFi 6) MacBooks Dont but that’s a whole other rant.

MacBooks Pro don't have WiFi 6 since Intel didn't include built-in support in its 9th gen CPUs (only 10th gen) and requiered another external IC to support it. iPhone 11 already has WiFi 6 so obviously iPhone 12 will have it too.

I’ll just go but a Note 20 Ultra. (That’s an iPhone 13 Pro Max from 2022 Today it’s like an iPhone just Samsung tech hasn’t trickled down yet)

Go buy it then. What's stopping you? Dude, it's like an iPhone from 2022. I wouldn't even look at Apple's offerings tbh. There's no way they've implemented anything like Samsung's time-travelling tech.
 
I love the 120hz on my iPad Pro, but I see that in phones quite a few compromises need to be done to get 120hz working well, I see with both the Samsung S20 and Note20 there is a requirement to lower the overall resolution which to me is not good. Not sure if this is the same situation on the other 120hz phones with QHD screens?

If Apple do put 120hz I want them to do it thoroughly well, no half-ass job of it.
 
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This.

We arent talking about their "budget" phone here, so Im not sure why the XR/11 is relevant. They wouldnt get 120hz or any of the advanced features for the price point (even though $400-500 Android devices somehow can pack 90 or 120hz OLEDs but I digress). The XR/11 were flat out overpriced for LCD phones in 2018-2019, regardless of how popular they were. Separating people from their money is a good business skill but nothing more. It doesnt make the product any more or less impressive

We're talking about PRO phones. $1000 and up. The iPad is "PRO" enough to get 120hz but apparently not the phone? So what "pro" features were you buying? OLED that $500 devices were using ad 1 extra camera? Because those are the current main differences between non-pro and pro; for $300/400 extra (Pro/Pro Max). Oh 1 gig of RAM, there is 50 cents of extra cost.

And let me go back to the sales mean nothing to the actual technology at issue. McDonald's sells the most burgers; they are FAR from the best burgers or even close. It's cheap, convenient and familiar. Same with the XR/11; want an iphone here's the cheapest modern one- shocker it sells the most being the cheapest modern year option (the SE is a niche model with a smaller than average screen).

Sales figures mean people are dumb enough to buy it en masse; not that it is necessarily "good/better" It lines Timmy's pockets to become the next billionaire. And that affects ANY of us how?

Apple makes the phone everyone wants, whether it is fashion or status symbol reasons; whatever the reason. That doesnt make it the best tech. And an honest company should always be trying to make the best product; the money comes with that

For some reason, there are a ton of apologists trying to tell us why we shouldnt care or dont need it; rather than why spending $1000 cant get us that. Lets ot forget Apple makes the highest industry profits despite not shipping the most devices as a company; so lets not pretend they are on razor-thin margins liek a $350-400 phone and cant give us more for the money. And how it would hurt them oh so badly if more was included for the same money.

Or typical like you dont like it "dont let the door hit you." That's a fanboy response when one cant bear to have a rational adult discussion :rolleyes: And yes, the average smartphone buyer IS ignorant on tech issues, sorry to break it to you. But yes, you are the "victim" in a victim mentality world we live in now, please do go on.... or rather not because I wont bother reading it.

Fair point but it’s a discussion forum. Name calling is not required. People who don’t share your views are not all apologists or fanboys but enthusiast users just like yourself with slightly differing opinions.

Alex lives of the spec sheet and has a few dozen fake heart attacks with each new rumour (that gets then started as fact). That’s not necessarily the level of drama that everyone agrees with.

Everyone would like technology in the next phone that blows the old phone out of the water. The importance of each component is of course a question of preference. Plenty people find certain tech good enough, and the more mature the tech in general gets the easier it will be to get a phone to that good enough level.

Apple needs components in other quantities than most smaller manufacturers, hence it’s not as easy to implement bleeding edge new stuff until it is both mature enough and available for dozens of millions on launch day. Why and if feature X will make it is a different question for different companies.
 
Fair point but it’s a discussion forum. Name calling is not required. People who don’t share your views are not all apologists or fanboys but enthusiast users just like yourself with slightly differing opinions.

Alex lives of the spec sheet and has a few dozen fake heart attacks with each new rumour (that gets then started as fact). That’s not necessarily the level of drama that everyone agrees with.

Everyone would like technology in the next phone that blows the old phone out of the water. The importance of each component is of course a question of preference. Plenty people find certain tech good enough, and the more mature the tech in general gets the easier it will be to get a phone to that good enough level.

Apple needs components in other quantities than most smaller manufacturers, hence it’s not as easy to implement bleeding edge new stuff until it is both mature enough and available for dozens of millions on launch day. Why and if feature X will make it is a different question for different companies.

Apple probably won’t release a 120 refresh rate until it’s almost perfect especially when it comes to battery life.
 
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This.

We arent talking about their "budget" phone here, so Im not sure why the XR/11 is relevant. They wouldnt get 120hz or any of the advanced features for the price point (even though $400-500 Android devices somehow can pack 90 or 120hz OLEDs but I digress). The XR/11 were flat out overpriced for LCD phones in 2018-2019, regardless of how popular they were. Separating people from their money is a good business skill but nothing more. It doesnt make the product any more or less impressive

We're talking about PRO phones. $1000 and up. The iPad is "PRO" enough to get 120hz but apparently not the phone? So what "pro" features were you buying? OLED that $500 devices were using ad 1 extra camera? Because those are the current main differences between non-pro and pro; for $300/400 extra (Pro/Pro Max). Oh 1 gig of RAM, there is 50 cents of extra cost.

And let me go back to the sales mean nothing to the actual technology at issue. McDonald's sells the most burgers; they are FAR from the best burgers or even close. It's cheap, convenient and familiar. Same with the XR/11; want an iphone here's the cheapest modern one- shocker it sells the most being the cheapest modern year option (the SE is a niche model with a smaller than average screen).

Sales figures mean people are dumb enough to buy it en masse; not that it is necessarily "good/better" It lines Timmy's pockets to become the next billionaire. And that affects ANY of us how?

Apple makes the phone everyone wants, whether it is fashion or status symbol reasons; whatever the reason. That doesnt make it the best tech. And an honest company should always be trying to make the best product; the money comes with that

For some reason, there are a ton of apologists trying to tell us why we shouldnt care or dont need it; rather than why spending $1000 cant get us that. Lets ot forget Apple makes the highest industry profits despite not shipping the most devices as a company; so lets not pretend they are on razor-thin margins liek a $350-400 phone and cant give us more for the money. And how it would hurt them oh so badly if more was included for the same money.

Or typical like you dont like it "dont let the door hit you." That's a fanboy response when one cant bear to have a rational adult discussion :rolleyes: And yes, the average smartphone buyer IS ignorant on tech issues, sorry to break it to you. But yes, you are the "victim" in a victim mentality world we live in now, please do go on.... or rather not because I wont bother reading it.

You are still not listening (which I notice is a common trend amongst self-styled pundits who think they know better than Apple).

That iPhones are doing as well as they are despite lacking some dealbreaker feature means that that all your doomsaying here is pretty much just that. It’s not a dealbreaker for the customers buying these phones, the sky clearly isn’t falling like you claim, and it most certainly isn’t humiliating for Apple.

Instead, it stands to reason that iPhones continue to sell because they offer a great user experience despite lacking these features. Or perhaps, precisely because they lack said features.

This is the part where you attempt to understand just what it is about iPhones which appeal to the public. Apple doesn’t decide what goes into a phone just so some tech blog or some online forum member called @1144557 can gush over it. They carefully decide what goes into the final product (and what gets cut out) to ensure that the final product offers a great user experience, and they will let the market decide for itself as to whether this decision was the right one or not.

You keep rejecting the idea of using sales as a proxy for success, but what other benchmark is there? The ultimately aim of any company is to sell more products, and if Samsung has crammed all these features into a phone which ultimately doesn’t sell that many units of, maybe that means that Samsung is the one who has screwed up and the public simply doesn’t want or care for their interpretation of innovation?

Since the very start, there has been this massive disconnect between what the more tech-savvy crowd wants in a device, vs what Apple ends up placing, and history has invariably proven Apple right and the critics wrong every single time.

And instead of trying to understand just why this is so, the critics have instead chosen to bury their head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich and double down on their criticism. Denial often goes along this line of thought.

1) I believe the next iphone will flop because it lacks feature X.
2) The next iphone goes on to sell extremely well
3) Cognitive dissonance kicks in - I can’t be wrong, so it must be the customers who are wrong
4) Cue threads like this

The difference, as I have outlined clearly in my response, and which you quoted but evidently made zero effort to understand whatsoever, is that there is no one universally accepted definition of what innovation entails.

Samsung’s interpretation of innovation involves shoving all the latest tech they have to offer into a phone. Maybe that works for you, but if sales are any indicator, there are plenty others who get turned off by this. The sales numbers pretty much speak for themselves.

Meanwhile, Apple subscribes to another version of innovation, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and again, the sales numbers pretty much speak for themselves. Maybe Samsung is right in your book, but that doesn’t mean Apple is wrong either, because they are ultimately appealing to different user bases.

And so my advice to you, and everyone else like you, is that before you go off the rails again, close your mouth, open your eyes, and observe. There is so much that you can learn, if you have the heart for the truth and the will to see it.
 
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