Other Humiliating No 120hz Display = Deal Breaker Apple’s blunder

[The Game 161]

Proof/evidence?

LTPO display tech for Galaxy Note 20+ to be called 'HOP'

The cutting-edge LTPO display tech allowing the Galaxy Note 20+ to offer variable refresh rates in an extremely efficient manner will be called "HOP".

www.sammobile.com

"But the same tech was already commercialized in the smartwatch segment by Apple and Samsung itself, i.e. the Apple Watch 4 and last year’s Galaxy Watch Active 2.

Apple is actually the owner of the original LTPO patent, meaning Samsung will have to pay royalties on its expanded usage."


They own the patent for the tech, and using it for years in the watch, but cant negotiate their own displays as part of the deal with Samsung use of that patent? 😂 I mean "c'mon man"..... That would make Apple just about the worst negotiators in history there.

Ross Young basically has said the panels for LTPO are still made by samsung so they hold all the cards and he has stated they wouldn’t allow anybody else to get these until 2021. Don’t forget the panels for LTPO cost a lot more than your standard panels. Apple were given 120hz panels this year and tried to get it to work but the display issues just weren’t up to their standards.

The LTPO panels are much improved which is why it costs more. Ross Young expects apple to get these panels next year.

However. That’s not say you need LTPO to get 120hz as it’s on other phones As most know.

 

[1144557]

Ross Young basically has said the panels for LTPO are still made by samsung so they hold all the cards and he has stated they wouldn’t allow anybody else to get these until 2021. Don’t forget the panels for LTPO cost a lot more than your standard panels. Apple were given 120hz panels this year and tried to get it to work but the display issues just weren’t up to their standards.

The LTPO panels are much improved which is why it costs more. Ross Young expects apple to get these panels next year.

However. That’s not say you need LTPO to get 120hz as it’s on other phones As most know.

Ok so an analyst guessing; that is not gospel.

Samsung had to ask Apple for legal permission to use Apple's LTPO patent. You TRULY dont think Apple could have said, sure you can use our patent if you make us 2020 panels too (plus money) or buzz off?

LTPO is why no 120hz for the most part- power draw. That is why 120hz sucked previously in terms of battery, and allegedly why Apple wouldnt adopt the tech (from the same analysts).

I agree on cost, because Apple is cheap hence the most profits in the industry. Im sure even $5 more per display would cause Apple to nix it; again deposit the highest per device profits in the industry. So this all falls back on Apple caring more about profits than the consumer.

 

[The Game 161]

Ok so an analyst guessing; that is not gospel.

Samsung had to ask Apple for legal permission to use Apple's LTPO patent. You TRULY dont think Apple could have said, sure you can use our patent if you make us 2020 panels too (plus money) or buzz off?

I agree on cost, because Apple is cheap hence the most profits in the industry So this all falls back on Apple caring more about profits than the consumer.

Not really guessing though he is the expert when it comes to displays.

I’m just as annoyed as you are and 120hz not being on the iphone is why i have pre ordered the note ultra. I can’t pay over 1k for a phone with 60hz.

 

[1144557]

Not really guessing though he is the expert when it comes to displays.

I’m just as annoyed as you are and 120hz not being on the iphone is why i have pre ordered the note ultra. I can’t pay over 1k for a phone with 60hz.

Its Apple being Apple. They care more about the $5 (whatever the cost it) more per display, despite having the highest profits in the industry by a mile.

It's not a technological hurdle, the tech exists right now today in consumer products, but a financial one its appearing more and more each day

I wont buy either. I would have rather paid $50 more for the phone ($1050/$1150) than same price without it. $50 more over 1-2 years (or more depending on how long you keep a device) even means little in reality.

 

[ericwn]

Its Apple being Apple. They care more about the $5 (whatever the cost it) more per display, despite having the highest profits in the industry by a mile.

It's not a technological hurdle, the tech exists right now today in consumer products, but a financial one its appearing more and more each day

I wont buy either. I would have rather paid $50 more for the phone ($1050/$1150) than same price without it. $50 more over 1-2 years (or more depending on how long you keep a device) even means little in reality.

Not sure and speculating gets us nowhere. Maybe nobody can produce the amounts Apple needs. Or those would be too expensive at that scale. Who knows. OLED also had a slower rollout as there weren’t that many manufacturers capable of mass producing.

 

[1rottenapple]

I agree. It’s the ones that post here that care. 99% of the masses don’t care and don’t know or care about refresh rate.

I'm buying my dad the iPhone 12. Does he doesn't even know WTF a 120ghz screen. All he knows is the camera, battery, and the big screen will be a step up from his 7plus.

 

[sdwaltz]

No USB-C
No 120hz Display
No AptX-HD or LDAC High Res Audio codec support
No Dual Bluetooth Pairing
No WiFi 6 (just kidding I hope they have WiFi 6) MacBooks Dont but that’s a whole other rant.

I’ll just go but a Note 20 Ultra. (That’s an iPhone 13 Pro Max from 2022 Today it’s like an iPhone just Samsung tech hasn’t trickled down yet)

I am ashamed of Apple. Apple need to innovate

Dude.

99% of consumers don't know what any of this means, and 99.9% don't care.

 

[joeblow7777]

iPhones have always been slow to adopt nearly every so-called “flagship” feature. At this point, I don’t know why iPhone users are surprised or disappointed. iPhones have their advantages, of course, that’s why we’re all here. But if you want cutting edge features like high refresh rates, wireless charging, OLED, fast charging etc. first, they’ve always come to Android phones way before iPhone. It’s just a fact of tech life.

 

[1144557]

Dude.

99% of consumers don't know what any of this means, and 99.9% don't care.

So your rebuttal is 99% of people dont understand some of the tech so why should techy people bother wanting it. Apple should just keep charging as much or more than competitors who are including more tech features (that peope do end up figuring out and liking at that). "Because ignorant average customer, whyz notz 💰💲💲💲💲💲 !" in a nutshell is the answer... Wow.

Its amazing how many apologists there are here defending Apple against the consumer wanting more for their money. Unless anyone's last name here is Cook, Ive, Cue, and crew, with a financial benefit in Apple extracting every penny from the consumer, everyone has EVERY RIGHT to question and demand more for your money as the consumer.

People here literaly act like they would somehow be personally hurt if their $999/1099 device had 120hz, smaller notch, bigger battery etc people are asking for. Arguing why you shouldn't want/need it. More for same/less money, ouch, the horrors!!!!

And yes, one can own a product and like it overall, yet still question the brand without being told to not let the door hit them. "Shut up and buy something else" is not a conversation that yields any actual forward-thinking result; there are too many the flock to anything with the fruit logo on it regardless how good or bad it is for Apple to keep doing it since money does talk.

But conversations can change attitudes, Apple does hear customers. Hence iOS 14- what 99%er wanted a default 3rd party mail app or browser, or cared more than what is built in? It was the loud voices of the "geek" community who got that done. None of those people going and buying Android would have solved that issue; drop in the bucket loss to something like Apple and institutes zero change

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So your rebuttal is 99% of people dont understand some of the tech so why should techy people bother wanting it. Apple should just keep charging as much or more than competitors who are including more tech features (that peope do end up figuring out and liking at that). "Because ignorant average customer, whyz notz !" in a nutshell is the answer... Wow.

Its amazing how many apologists there are here defending Apple against the consumer wanting more for their money. Unless anyone's last name here is Cook, Ive, Cue, and crew, with a financial benefit in Apple extracting every penny from the consumer, everyone has EVERY RIGHT to question and demand more for your money as the consumer.

Imagine that, one can own a product and like it overall, yet still question the brand without being told to not let the door hit them. "shut up and bu something else" is not a conversation that yields any actual forward-thinking result; there are too many the flock to anything with the fruit logo on it regardless how good or bad it is for Apple to keep doing it since money does talk.

But conversations can change attitudes, Apple does hear customers. Hence iOS 14- what 99%er wanted a 3rd party mail app or cared more than what is built in? It was the loud voices of the "geek" community who got that done. None buying Android would have solved that issue; its a cop out rebuttal to the conversation.

This is why I’ve adopted the tactic of not buying the Pro devices where you guys are obviously disappointed, when I can buy the standard iPhone and be pleased with what it does.

Apple have never been about matching Android makers for hardware features because in reality they already have the monopoly in their market. I agree that we should be getting as much for our money but having owned iPhones for years now I know Apple always underdeliver in some aspect of their phones. The OS is the main selling point to me and luckily the standard non-pro iPhones have all the important features anyway.

 

[1144557]

This is why I’ve adopted the tactic of not buying the Pro devices where you guys are obviously disappointed, when I can buy the standard iPhone and be pleased with what it does.

Apple have never been about matching Android makers for hardware features because in reality they already have the monopoly in their market. I agree that we should be getting as much for our money but having owned iPhones for years now I know Apple always underdeliver in some aspect of their phones. The OS is the main selling point to me and luckily the standard non-pro iPhones have all the important features anyway.

Apple is going to have to do something. The "because OS" is becoming less and less of a factor as Android becomes more mature and Google is implementing more and more privacy/restrictions into the OS (yes there will always be the rooters etc but were talking normal people).

And many manufacturers are starting to suport devices longer. Pixels are now guaranteed 3 years. The average smartphone over per the last date Ive seen averages 32 months with a device. So the OS itself and update issue is evening out slowly but surely. And no I get you arent going to get a $200-400 Chinese brand phone that gets updates; that's to be expected.

The only people deep in to the OS itself are those in the Apple ecosystem (have a Mac or iPad); some who would buy a turd in a box with the fruit logo on it. Those arent average people either. I would say most people are OS agnostic and dont care; even some with iPads dont have iPhones, its not required.

The Pixel 4a is a screaming deal for $349 (no high refresh but at $349 cant expect that). The processor is questionable, but 6gb ram 128gb storage and a hole punch OLED; oh and stereo speakers which is rare on a lower end phone. The Oneplus Nord at approx $450 USD if imported is a screaming deal with a 765g processor, 8/12gb RAM, and 90hz. A processor with a Geekbench over a laptop is great and all, but what does it really MEAN? iOS (the phone not iPad OS) cant multitask 2 full running apps at once, so what does all that power mean after a certain point?

As MKBHD says on Youtube, good phones are getting cheap and cheap phones are getting good. I expect a $500-800 phone to be ok; mid to low high end. I expect $1000+ to be excellent every feature these days (and yes the Note 20 Ultra is OVERPRICED a good $200; although arguably it may be the best hardware out, but THAT is a $1099-1199 phone all day long in worth the price for the specs you get).


And this is from the eyes of an Apple fan. No I dont own a watch, Mac or iPad but have owned nearly every iPhone since the 3GS. Ive dabbled with 2 total Android devices in that time for a few weeks each; and not since a Galaxy S5. This is from someone who is frustrated with the current path, not a troll/hater.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Apple is going to have to do something. The "because OS" is becoming less and less of a factor as Android becomes more mature and Google is implementing more and more privacy/restrictions into the OS (yes there will always be the rooters etc but were talking normal people).

And many manufacturers are starting to suport devices longer. Pixels are now guaranteed 3 years. The average smartphone over per the last date Ive seen averages 32 months with a device. So the OS itself and update issue is evening out slowly but surely. And no I get you arent going to get a $200-400 Chinese brand phone that gets updates; that's to be expected.

The only people deep in to the OS itself are those in the Apple ecosystem (have a Mac or iPad); some who would buy a turd in a box with the fruit logo on it. Those arent average people either. I would say most people are OS agnostic and dont care; even some with iPads dont have iPhones, its not required.

The Pixel 4a is a screaming deal for $349 (no high refresh but at $349 cant expect that). The processor is questionable, but 6gb ram 128gb storage and a hole punch OLED; oh and stereo speakers which is rare on a lower end phone. The Oneplus Nord at approx $450 USD if imported is a screaming deal with a 765g processor, 8/12gb RAM, and 90hz. A processor with a Geekbench over a laptop is great and all, but what does it really MEAN? iOS (the phone not iPad OS) cant multitask 2 full running apps at once, so what does all that power mean after a certain point?

As MKBHD says on Youtube, good phones are getting cheap and cheap phones are getting good. I expect a $500-800 phone to be ok; mid to low high end. I expect $1000+ to be excellent every feature these days (and yes the Note 20 Ultra is OVERPRICED a good $200; although arguably it may be the best hardware out, but THAT is a $1099-1199 phone all day long in worth the price for the specs you get).


And this is from the eyes of an Apple fan. No I dont own a watch, Mac or iPad but have owned nearly every iPhone since the 3GS. Ive dabbled with 2 total Android devices in that time for a few weeks each; and not since a Galaxy S5. This is from someone who is frustrated with the current path, not a troll/hater.

As the years have passed I’ve seen many of my friends, family and colleagues gravitate towards owning iPhones whereas 5 years ago there was a large chunk using Android devices. I’m sure it’s improving from an OS perspective and that is to be expected. I used Android myself (2008-2012), but if I’m honest I find iOS simple to use and I like the uniformed style across apps and services. It feels nice to use. I like many I know now have iPads and watches and the complete experience is very good. This does mean that I no longer look at Android around upgrade time and I find this is especially true for those people who aren’t necessarily into phones in general too. When you’re happy with the experience of one provider there is little point changing IMO.

It’s best to just use what you like at the end of the day as all these smartphones effectively do the same standard tasks.

 

[macher]

This is an old argument on the screen size. The 2% you are obsessing about is no big deal or worthy of sacrificing Face ID. There is a reason NO ONE has duplicated the security of Apple's Face ID with similar tech. As for your fingerprint comment, I would hate to lose that screen space to a fingerprint reader. Or are you suggesting that Apple go under screen for that? Shrugs. Sure, lets rush a re-design to market LOL.

How about an Apple logo Touch ID on the back?

 

[macher]

As the years have passed I’ve seen many of my friends, family and colleagues gravitate towards owning iPhones whereas 5 years ago there was a large chunk using Android devices. I’m sure it’s improving from an OS perspective and that is to be expected. I used Android myself (2008-2012), but if I’m honest I find iOS simple to use and I like the uniformed style across apps and services. It feels nice to use. I like many I know now have iPads and watches and the complete experience is very good. This does mean that I no longer look at Android around upgrade time and I find this is especially true for those people who aren’t necessarily into phones in general too. When you’re happy with the experience of one provider there is little point changing IMO.

It’s best to just use what you like at the end of the day as all these smartphones effectively do the same standard tasks.

I’ve used both myself. I consider the iPhone an app based phone vs Android.

 

[TheRealAlex]

Dude.

99% of consumers don't know what any of this means, and 99.9% don't care.

I can’t disagree with his logic.

 

[jbachandouris]

Honestly, I don't care about 120hz. Doubt my 52 year old eyes would even notice.

I want 5G and the 6.7" screen. Wifi 6 would be great.

 

[G5isAlive]

How about an Apple logo Touch ID on the back?

Not a bad suggestion for these times... this comment is NOT aimed at you, but rather those that think Apple can redo their whole design in 6 months to accommodate these times. The layout of an iPhone of iPad is very tight with the battery filling most available space. Add a button here, add a button there, just isn't going to happen in that time frame.

 

[G5isAlive]

The only people deep in to the OS itself are those in the Apple ecosystem (have a Mac or iPad); some who would buy a turd in a box with the fruit logo on it. Those arent average people either. I would say most people are OS agnostic and dont care; even some with iPads dont have iPhones, its not required.

I think you are very wrong to support your narrative. Insulting people isn't going to help your case either. I think there is a strong core of people who care very much about which OS they use, either IOS or droid. The people that flit back and forth based on hardware features always will.

I see samsung and others claiming a lot of features that just don't work. Remember 'face recognition' that could be fooled by a pic? When Apple releases a hardware feature it works.

Honesty I dont care what mhz my screen is. I shop Apple. The rest of it still looks like crap that isn't supported longer than the next version.

 

[Sikh]

Here’s my follow up how’s that for interaction bud.

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Its a Freaking VRR Display yes it’s essentially a High end Gaming monitor or LG OLED Gaming TV with VRR. For those who don’t know VRR is a term For FreeSync and GSYNC

Yes the Note 20 Ultra 120 Hz Display has VRR. Guess my iPhone 8 Plus will need to last another year. Since anything beyond the iPhone 8 Plus (touch ID) has arguably been a downgrade in safety.

I have to finally chime in because someone needs to point this out. Samsung of all manufacturers ALWAYS half asses things. How many android manufacturers added high refresh screens but locked 60 by default and when you switched to 90 you got a "this is going to use more battery, use at your own risk?" message. What kind of user experience is that?


But since you are ALL about Samsungs VRR and all this ********, here's another half ass implementation by Samsung

Unfortunately, when you switch to WQHD+ resolution, you lose out on the 120Hz refresh rate. So I'll be sticking with FHD+ resolution so I can take advantage of the faster refresh rate. Samsung doesn't apply 120Hz all of the time. Instead, it's adaptive, meaning the Note 20 Ultra will use the faster refresh rate when you're doing tasks that would benefit from it, like gaming or scrolling.

I would rather have manufacturers implement something right then wrong. Whats the point of having and bragging about a WQHD BLAH BLAH BLAH display when your ****ing phone cant even do what you are boasting about? "Let me run 120hz but at FHQ on my WQHD that I brag about to everyone". Thats a ****ing joke to me. I would rather have manufacturers implement whatever tech they are going to brag about CORRECTLY.

Same thing with the under display fingerprint reader. Its half ass. Its only a specific part of your phone and even then some of the phones with it can be fooled by any fingerprint on the screen, thats a ****ing joke.

If you want to get a phone that has half ass implemented tech that you can brag about, be my guest. I am going to wait for any manufacturer to do it right before I give them my money.

 

[The1andOnly]

I get that’s your personal opinion on LCD panels, but I doubt consumers share your mindset. Apples been using LCD panels since inception of the iPhone and in general, consumers can’t differentiate between OLED versus LCD anyways. I can tell you from having the Max and an iPhone 8 plus, I am actually preferential to the LCD panel, with its color calibration, brightness and overall its maturity over the years.

Well sure, Apple’s 401ppi LCD does look great.

EDIT: Me neither, @aenflex.

 

[1rottenapple]

Dude.

99% of consumers don't know what any of this means, and 99.9% don't care.

I know lol. The important question for 99% of consumers is, is the battery life good? Is the camera good? How much does it cost?

Those are the most important things not the things the 0.01% nerds care about.

I’m an Apple nerd with XS max, 16 in MacBook, 2018 iPad Pro 11, AirPod pro, AirPods, and series 5 titanium Apple Watch and I don’t care about:
No USB-C (minor feature)
No 120hz Display (who cares)
No AptX-HD or LDAC High Res Audio codec support (I listento AirPods, who cares)
No Dual Bluetooth Pairing (why is this important and why should I care)
No WiFi 6 (I’m not even gonna notice)

 

[ChromeCloud]

I don’t perceive 120hz refresh rate as a must have feature in a phone, especially if there is a marked trade-off in weight/thickness/battery life.

It would be nice to have it, but the lack of such a feature is not a deal breaker at all.

 

[macher]

Apple is going to have to do something. The "because OS" is becoming less and less of a factor as Android becomes more mature and Google is implementing more and more privacy/restrictions into the OS (yes there will always be the rooters etc but were talking normal people).

And many manufacturers are starting to suport devices longer. Pixels are now guaranteed 3 years. The average smartphone over per the last date Ive seen averages 32 months with a device. So the OS itself and update issue is evening out slowly but surely. And no I get you arent going to get a $200-400 Chinese brand phone that gets updates; that's to be expected.

The only people deep in to the OS itself are those in the Apple ecosystem (have a Mac or iPad); some who would buy a turd in a box with the fruit logo on it. Those arent average people either. I would say most people are OS agnostic and dont care; even some with iPads dont have iPhones, its not required.

The Pixel 4a is a screaming deal for $349 (no high refresh but at $349 cant expect that). The processor is questionable, but 6gb ram 128gb storage and a hole punch OLED; oh and stereo speakers which is rare on a lower end phone. The Oneplus Nord at approx $450 USD if imported is a screaming deal with a 765g processor, 8/12gb RAM, and 90hz. A processor with a Geekbench over a laptop is great and all, but what does it really MEAN? iOS (the phone not iPad OS) cant multitask 2 full running apps at once, so what does all that power mean after a certain point?

As MKBHD says on Youtube, good phones are getting cheap and cheap phones are getting good. I expect a $500-800 phone to be ok; mid to low high end. I expect $1000+ to be excellent every feature these days (and yes the Note 20 Ultra is OVERPRICED a good $200; although arguably it may be the best hardware out, but THAT is a $1099-1199 phone all day long in worth the price for the specs you get).


And this is from the eyes of an Apple fan. No I dont own a watch, Mac or iPad but have owned nearly every iPhone since the 3GS. Ive dabbled with 2 total Android devices in that time for a few weeks each; and not since a Galaxy S5. This is from someone who is frustrated with the current path, not a troll/hater.

I have an iPhone, iPad and a Windows pc. I don’t use my iPad much. I would say I use my iPhone the most. I use my pc when I need to use Chrome extensions for my online business.

I’m not really in the Apple ecosystem. The only ecocentric thing I use is iMessage. I use all Google apps on my iPhone especially the Chrome mobile app. Even my contacts are synced via Google contacts.

For me Google is more cross platform.

Why do I prefer the iPhone over Android when I’m pretty much completely in the Google ecosystem? Because for me I prefer an app based focused phone which the iPhone is compared to Android. Android wins on the ‘production’ side. The iPhone wins hands down on the app side. Apps are just significantly better experience on iOS. If I needed a production mobile device I would have an Android phone.

 

[ptfuzi]

This is Humiliating as an Apple fan, I don’t want to witness Apple’s blunder after blunder and fall like Intel is now a clown of it former self.

I don’t expect every iPhone 12 SKU to use a high end 6.8” 120hz OLED 2K Display but I do expect the highest end 12 Pro Max 5G iPhone to have a 120hz Display.

As I was reading the latest Rumors on MacRumors it’s been all but leaked and confirmed that NO iPhone 12 model will have 120hz Display.

Thats A deal breaker.
How can they do this.? When Razer, Samsung, HTC, Asus, Lenovo, Sony and more all have phones with 120hz displays and if you have ever use one there’s no going backwards.

I have a 90hz P40 Pro and cant tell the difference..
Also I can say that iPhone 11 pro has better/faster touch refresh rate than P40.

So why would you care? Some people just care about numbers

 

[mjschabow]

I have a 90hz P40 Pro and cant tell the difference..
Also I can say that iPhone 11 pro has better/faster touch refresh rate than P40.

So why would you care? Some people just care about numbers

120hz is a real difference though. I felt the same way you did about the Pixel 4 where it was noticeable but subtle. The S20 Ultra was very noticeable though.