btw the post that mosx was referring to was this:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=383880
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=383880
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I couldn't argue back...
- Thread starter RiCEADDiCTBOY
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You haven't dealt with Apple's customer support yet.
As someone who has had to have their system replaced twice and sent out to repair a combined total of about 8 times due to the repair facilities inability to fix and ability to destroy, I can tell you that Apple's customer service ratings are completely overblown and they're no better, if not worse, than the others in the industry. At least HP, Dell, etc. have phone support after 6PM local time. Which isn't everything, especially when the Core 2 Duo can't take advantage of the triple channel features of DDR3, and PCs that cost several hundred less than Macs, sometimes half as much, offer GPUs that are 2-4x as powerful.
Not when we're talking about the fact that OS X has virtually no 3rd party software compared to Windows.
It's more simplistic because its nowhere near as capable as Windows or Ubuntu.
Why in the world would you buy XP when your system came with Vista? Vista IS better than XP. I've been using it on multiple systems since it was in the public beta phase and all of the negative things said about Vista have been pure FUD and completely untrue.
How is having to buy $30 adapters (that cost probably 50 cents to make and are royalty free) better than having built-in VGA? Oh and notebook PCs these days have HDMI outputs.
Only under Windows, NOT in OS X. And to get it to display on an external screen in Windows you have to use circumvention software because nvidia's website drivers nor Apple's supplied nvidia drivers have HDCP support. Plus your Mac is incapable of passing uncompressed audio or the higher quality lossless DTS and Dolby Digital formats. It can only pass the lower quality highly compressed DTS "Core" and Dolby Digital audio, which means you lose about half of the reason to even own a blu-ray player. If Apple would provide HDMI as well as HDCP certified drivers, then it would be possible to pass audio.
iLife, aside from iPhoto, is bloatware. The ultimate bloatware. iMovie is only good if you want to upload youtube clips. iDVD has been ignored for several updates now and was never really useful to begin with. Garageband is fine for creating podcasts that nobody will listen to. And iWeb is good if you want to make a MobileMe site that nobody will visit.
That was before a few things happened. At that time I had just bought it. I was still in the first few hours with the system.
I had yet to discover that OS X was completely overrated and under-capable
That was also before the Apple Build Quality had struck and my plastic casing had started cracking for no reason other than it was low quality plastic and poorly built.If by functionally limited you mean can run Mac software, plus Windows and/or Linux software with Parallels/Fusion/VirtualBox(free).
How is your copy of Windows working on running OS X in VM?
I also strongly disagree that there is no 3rd party software, OS X has an especially strong indie/mISV community who puts out top notch software. Usually better than the crap from big devs like MS and Adobe.
Just to name a few really good ones:
Coda, Espresso
Pixelmator, Acorn
Delicious Library
Textmate
ScreenFlow
Adium
Things
BoinxTV
Software that doesn't run on windows that comes from Apple:
iLife
iWork
Aperture
Final Cut Studio
Bento
OS X / iPhone Developer Tools (including the performance and debugging tools)
See above software / VM options.
We all know OS X has absolutely no "built-in technology" as nebulous as that might be...
I'm also sure you're completely right about HDMI not available AT ALL, nor will it EVER BE on Macs.
Wow, usually us Mac users don't even have to deal with having to update drivers for junky fingerprint readers, parallel ports, serial ports and floppy drives.
For those people that do use card readers they tend to just work without drivers in the first place.
You might actually have a point here. We usually get updated drivers on point updates, which average about one every 2 months. How often do you go to ati.com or nvidia.com and update your drivers? And doesn't windows update do that automatically for you? Weren't you just bragging how windows was so much cooler than OS X for doing that?
You're free to delete the drivers or opt out of installing them during the installation of OS X and currently Leopard will download HP drivers updates, as cited in the link below.
"Leopard began handling updates for HP drivers in 2007."
Which will be further improved in Snow Leopard (since you enjoy talking about your favorite unreleased version of Windows):
Apple's Snow Leopard to load printer drivers on demand.
Sounds like an excellent deal, $400 for a Unibody MacBook, or $200 if buying refurbished. Not a bad deal going from a cheap plastic, OS limited Dell to an excellent aluminum Mac!
Indeed I have. I had to send in my system because the battery latch did not fit properly. I experienced debris under my screen on two models. For my troubles, they gave my a free 500GB external HDD to back my data, as I explained that I did not have one. There is a reason Apple has a higher customer support rating, as I learned first hand.You haven't dealt with Apple's customer support yet.
I wasn't saying it as if it was; I had already agree with you.
I disagree. For its marketplace, I would say it has more software than Windows based upon where the operating system sits, which is at ~90% of the market.
I generalized opinion. I see little in my day, as an average consumer, tasks that OS X cannot handle. Just because something is simple doesn't mean it is limited.
No Vista is not better for me. You state that these things are untrue, when they were opinions to begin with. Less the driver issues, memory usage and overall experience that I didn't require - which took up space regardless. I was comfortable with XP and not with Vista. End of story.
I don't want HDMI, nor do I want VGA; I just can't be satisfied. I need the quality of a digital standard with the availability of VGA (which is everywhere now). Do you know how they make adapters? I'd assume not, as they do not cost $1 to design, nor produce.
No, I meant in OS X. Mini Display Port has been reported by users on these forums as having the availability of carrying audio.
I digress. You're acting as if these software suites are for everyone. Do I use GarageBand? No. Do I upload podcasts? No. It is indeed far from bloatware. Your statement also generalizes that software is available from Microsoft - right off the bat - that even compares.
I'm sorry you had a problem with OS X: you should return to an operating system more suited for you, as you're clearly having issues.
All this talk that OS X is somehow lacking when compared to what XP/Vista can do?
Um, what? I'd love some details there!
(admittedly ubuntu can be hacked and played with more then either because its open source)
Um, what? I'd love some details there!
(admittedly ubuntu can be hacked and played with more then either because its open source)
RiCEADDiCTBOY were the specs for your 1530 the stock specs?
If so I'd say you did great in upgrading to a MacBook. Hell if you buy a refurb MB it would be cheaper than the price on Dell's site that I quoted.
The CPU is only slightly slower .1Ghz, but has a faster 1066Mhz FSB and faster DDR3 RAM, the DVD drive is equal, wireless is equal, screen resolution is the SAME but you get a compact and lighter notebook, built in bluetooth, multi-touch trackpad and magsafe adapter.
If you do want need more ram in your notebook then $55, a screwdriver and about 3 minutes can fix that. HDD is also cheap and easy to swap.
Even the video card on the Macbook is better for most things even though the 8400M GS is a discrete card.
http://www.hackido.com/2008/11/nvidia-9400m-vs-8400m-gs.html
If so I'd say you did great in upgrading to a MacBook. Hell if you buy a refurb MB it would be cheaper than the price on Dell's site that I quoted.
The CPU is only slightly slower .1Ghz, but has a faster 1066Mhz FSB and faster DDR3 RAM, the DVD drive is equal, wireless is equal, screen resolution is the SAME but you get a compact and lighter notebook, built in bluetooth, multi-touch trackpad and magsafe adapter.
If you do want need more ram in your notebook then $55, a screwdriver and about 3 minutes can fix that. HDD is also cheap and easy to swap.
Even the video card on the Macbook is better for most things even though the 8400M GS is a discrete card.
http://www.hackido.com/2008/11/nvidia-9400m-vs-8400m-gs.html
WIth extremely limited hardware support. It's not a fully functional operating system and CAN NOT do everything a native install can.
Why would I want to? There isn't anything that only runs in OS X that I "need". On the other hand, there is plenty in Windows that I both "need" and just want to run.
Are you one of those thats going to try to tell me that OpenOffice is better than MS Office and that GIMP is better than Photoshop?
And don't get me started on the practically non-existant freeware market for OS X. Every little app wants $5, $10, $15 to do half of what a free and better written app does in Windows.
Google it. Even the fans of the app admit its not as good as its Windows counterparts.
Why would I need that?
Thats a decent one, yes. But its a competitor to Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop Elements, and others. Both of those are better and cost about the same as long as you don't buy retail.
Why would I need that if I have Pixelmator or Photoshop Elements? Or even Gimp?
Oh geez, don't even get me started on how many hundreds of media catalog software exists on Windows.
Why do I need this?
As if there aren't hundreds of things like this available on Windows.
Digsby. Which actually supports video I might add. It's also supported twitter for a looong time now, something the Adium team is still trying to get running. It's also multi-platform, but the Windows version is better.
Why would I need this?
Plenty of similar freeware available for Windows.
Bloatware. Besides, freeware that is equal to all software is available, as well as the fact that many digital video cameras ship with higher quality video editing software.
Not as good as OpenOffice or MS Office.
Costs half as much as Photoshop and not even 1/4 as capable.
Why would I use that over Avid?
Pointless. Also not made by Apple.
Not as good as Windows.
As I said, deliberately held back by Apple. Apple WILL face anti-trust issues as the platform becomes more popular.
Either that or developer support will drop off in favor of Tegra powered devices.
Explain to me why I would want to virtualize OS X and show me software that doesn't have a superior alternative in Windows.
Let me know when OS X can do bitstream decoding of video on the GPU like Windows has been doing for almost forever now
Yes, we're all aware of the HDMI adapters for mini DisplayPort. Two problems. One, DisplayPort converted to HDMI has handshaking issues with many HDMI capable displays. Second problem, Apple's implementation of HDMI DOES NOT support audio of any kind, meaning you can't pass uncompressed 8 channel LPCM over HDMI like a PC can, or even Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master HD over HDMI like a PC can.
Junky fingerprint readers hahaha. I love it how Apple apologists trash features that are available on PCs...... until the feature is on a Mac, then they praise it. Back in the 90s, Apple apologists said pre-emptive multi-tasking was pointless and there was no need. Yet when OS X finally got it, more 6 years after Windows did, those same Apple apologists praised it and acted as if Windows never had it.
Oh and don't worry, PCs haven't had floppy drives, serial ports, or parallel ports in years. But the nice thing about desktop PCs? A Windows PC actually gives you the OPTION of having those ports in case you DO need them. Unlike the one and only expandable desktop Mac, which limits you to almost nothing and is almost as limited in expandability as their all-in-ones, mini system, and notebooks.
By the way, I like the fact that I can log into all of my favorite websites with the swipe of my finger rather than typing in my password or relying on a component that has known security holes to keep my passwords safe.
And those USB card readers run far slower than those built-in ones.
Actually, thats not true. OS X does not always get driver updates with point revisions. Some point revisions are a lot farther apart than every two months as well.
For example, 10.5.6 was released December 15th 2008. 10.5.6 was May 12th 2009. Thats 5 months. Before that it was 3 months. Between 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 it was 4 months.
I go as often as they're released. Time varies. They're more frequent than OS X updates and theres always a steady flow of beta drivers one can try out.
I wouldn't want Windows to automatically update it because I like getting regular speed increases, not just performance increases every 4-5 months
Yes, Leopard downloads UPDATES. But you still have to have over 1GB of drivers installed when installing OS X if you do have an HP printer. Its even larger if you have printers from other manufacturers as well.
Apple will be doing what Windows has been doing for years now
Good for them. Apple is always playing catch up. It's a shame that Apple is still relying on drivers for printers and scanners however, as Windows does not any more starting with Vista. And taking a huge step backwards in hardware capabilities (slower processor, GPU that is about half as fast), as well as losing standard connectivity, and taking a step back in software too.
Oh, and I have an aluminum MacBook if you haven't noticed. It is NOT built as well as my plastic HP. Not by a long shot.
A well built system wouldn't have those problems to begin with. Hence the reason Apple's support is worse than others. It's also common practice of companies to give freebies like that to make up for things going bad. HP gave me a 12 cell battery when my optical drive went bad.
That makes no sense. Windows has tens of thousands more pieces of software than OS X.
Why not watch a blu-ray movie or try to play a modern game?
Driver issues? What driver issues? Vista has no driver issues. I've been using it for years on multiple systems, multiple PCs and multiple Macs. None of them have ever had driver issues.
Saying Vista uses more memory than XP shows you don't know what you're talking about. Vista caches data for your most used software, so it launches faster. However, overall OS memory usage is no more than XP or Leopard.
HDMI IS digital, HDMI is in practically everything these days. And the mini DisplayPort adapters are nothing more than a piece of plastic and a signal converter.
DisplayPort CAN carry audio. Apple's implementation DOES NOT carry audio.
Did I say anything about Microsoft software? No I did not.
Second, software that comes pre-installed that you do not use or need IS indeed bloatware. At least, thats according to the Apple Apologist Logic demonstrated on these and other Apple related forums. PCs come loaded with "bloatware" software that people don't need. However, if you don't need Garageband or iMovie its not bloatware because its Apple. No, if I don't need it and its preinstalled eating up nearly 10GB of space, IT IS bloatware.
Which is useless.
A gimmick.
A fire hazard.
It's been stated that he had the 8600M GT, which is roughly twice as fast as the 9400M.
I also want to point out that the CCFL backlit screens in most PCs look better than the LED backlit screens in the MacBook. I know from experience.
Oh not you again! Like Tallest Skil will say....
whatever you posted, has already been posted!!!! Please refrain us from further speeches, just link your old arguments back!
mosX
your comments are so subjective, and thats fine, but it certainly doesn't make windows better then OS X a fact. Your dismissal of software that OS X only could be used easly by a Mac fan for Windows only software. The point to take from that is there are strong OS X only apps.
Same with with your dissmissal of hardware things, thats fine for you, but again its not a fact(it seems like you're saying that)
Also iLife is regarded by many as a top consumer media suite...calling it bloatware is just silly. It might not be your pick, but its a series of programs
your comments are so subjective, and thats fine, but it certainly doesn't make windows better then OS X a fact. Your dismissal of software that OS X only could be used easly by a Mac fan for Windows only software. The point to take from that is there are strong OS X only apps.
Same with with your dissmissal of hardware things, thats fine for you, but again its not a fact(it seems like you're saying that)
Also iLife is regarded by many as a top consumer media suite...calling it bloatware is just silly. It might not be your pick, but its a series of programs
Yep, same opinions over and over. Lack of facts or data.
On a side note, I do wonder when he will learn how to multi-quote with the posters original post? Must be a Windows user thing.
I'll agree that Apple's hardware is darn near crap compared to most other competitors offerings. But OS X is worth the sacrifice I guess.
OS X isn't that great when you run it on that ancient horrible obsolete crap called PowerPC
Just kidding, I have more PPC Macs than Intel and I love the PPC-based Macs.
Most of the time, I prefer my PM G5 to my new Intel Mac Mini 1.83.
Apple does have less powerful hardware, but at least it isn't paired with horrible, virus filled software unless you want to, or *shock* have to use it with Windows.
Silly argument to make if you are on the PC side. Windows XP can't even read PDF files without downloading a 3rd party app
Silly argument to make if you are on the PC side. Windows XP can't even read PDF files without downloading a 3rd party app
It can't do Quick Look for that matter.
And that's exactly why he's on my ignore list. He has a long history on this forum of writing posts exactly as your describe.
Is it just me, or have the pro-Windows folks been especially vocal and virulent here on the forums lately?
It's almost as though there was some sort of concerted effort in advance of the Win 7 release.....
It's almost as though there was some sort of concerted effort in advance of the Win 7 release.....
It's hard to argue with someone who complains that he shouldn't have to download a 3rd party app to get a functionality in OS X, and then one breathe later says he can download a 3rd party app to get the same functionality in Windows.
yea, i thought mosx had some interesting and valid points as well.
anyone brave enough to rebuttle?
anyone brave enough to rebuttle?
When you show me Macs that are equal to PCs at the same price, then we can talk.
By Apple fans, not by many. iPhoto is the only app that most people will ever use.
PDF files are useless anyway. And not being able to read PDF file is nowhere near as bad as not being able to handle external displays right.
Windows has had thumbnail previews and the ability to see proper previews of files since Windows 98.
Functionality that should be part of the OS and hardware is a bit different. Proper display support and proper OS configuration SHOULD BE BUILT IN.
Thank you. Nobody ever does. They'll just say "thats not true" and thats it. I'll say PCs are better value for the money, or you get a much more powerful PC at the same price and I'll get in response is a "thats not true you troll!" and never a proper response.
Half the time the "troll" argument is said because they have no better way of refuting. Same with "chill" and "calm down" too. At least that's the impression I'm getting.
The wall of text isn't helping either.
mosx does bring up a lot of good points about OS X and Windows.
I might not share their opinion entirely but I can see where they are coming from.
+1 And if your using 32 bit vista the OS can see 4gb of ram but can only use 3.5gb.
I hear this arguement all the time. My coworkers constantly tell me how my MBP is crippled yet in any photoshop/lightroom/corel painter/etc task my machine out performs their beefed up windows machines. Honestly you cant compare hardware on different OS's.
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