I don't doubt your intelligence, but I highly doubt that you even have any type of Mac or even allow anything made by Apple in your house.
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I don't doubt your intelligence, but I highly doubt that you even have any type of Mac or even allow anything made by Apple in your house.
I don't doubt your intelligence, but I highly doubt that you even have any type of Mac or even allow anything made by Apple in your house.
He actually has owned a Mac.
Linky
Some yes, some no.
There's no arguing that Windows has a bigger catalog of software, with 90% of the world market, it should have.
Have I ever found a functionality I needed that I couldn't do on a Mac? No.
I'm not going to slog through his arguments one at a time, it's late and I need to go to bed, and forum fudsters are soooo tiring. Here's a few things Mac can do that IMO PC can't.
1. Have an easy to use, intuitive, logically laid out user interface.
2. Make computer tasks simpler.
3. Browse the web without becoming infected with spyware.
4. Run for long periods of time without performance degradation. ( Early indications that Win 7 also has this problem)
5. Be low maintenance.
6. Be stable.(ie avoid registry corruption)
7. Come with bundled apps that are actually useful.
There plenty of things that a windows computer can do that a Mac can't. But what a Mac does do, it does better, easier, and with less hassle.
G'nite
Thats exactly it.
I don't hate Apple. I just point out the shortcomings. I'd like to see Apple do better. I really don't see why, other than profit margins, they can't offer a 15.4 or 16" system at $1,299 with all of the same features a PC would have at that price.
That is absolutely not true.
Vista uses no more memory than Leopard does (I've run both on 1, 2, and 4GB) and Vista actually uses less overall CPU time when doing every day tasks.
Theres countless benchmarks out there that say that Photoshop, etc. all run at least the same on both platforms when equal hardware is used.
Don't forget that OS X doesn't have a 64-bit version of Photoshop either.
See this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/705165/ for the screenshot I took running XP on my MacBook.
I also have an iPhone (original, 4GB), an 80GB 5.5G white iPod, a black 8GB 3G iPod nano, a 2G 1GB iPod shuffle, and a 2G 4GB iPod mini.
Thats subjective. I find Windows to be more logically laid out. It's easier to start software that you don't have pinned to the dock/taskbar, and its easier to navigate where one needs to be. Also, alt-tab takes you directly to the window you want while command-tab in OS X only takes you to the application, you have to use command-~ afterwards to get to the window you want. I also like that control alt delete in Windows brings up an entirely new screen, while command option escape in OS X just brings up a little window. One time I had iTunes lock up on me which also locked up Finder. I did the keyboard combination to bring up the force quit window but it was behind iTunes. I could Expose to see it and click on it but iTunes would grab focus (while being froze) and not let me click on it. Windows doesn't have this problem.
Thats not true. Software generally works the same whether its in OS X or Windows. The only real difference is the unified menu/toolbar in OS X. Installing software is easier in OS X, but uninstalling it is a hassle, considering you have to hunt down endless files and folders all over the HDD.
Same in Windows. IE7/8 (even IE6 in XP SP2) as well as Firefox both prevent software from being installed without the users consent. This whole spyware and virus argument hasn't been valid in years. The only way one can get infected these days is to actively download and instal the malware.
Both Windows and OS X will degrade with time thanks to all of the random files and such left behind. However, as long as you run ccleaner (Windows) and defrag and Onyx (OS X) and hunt down the files in OS X, both OSes will run good as new for years.
Hunting down left behind files as well as running Onyx takes no less time than ccleaner and Disk Defrag in Windows.
Don't get me started on OS X's instability. I've had Tiger and Leopard crash more combined than I've ever had Windows (all versions combined) crash in the nearly 2 decades I've been using Windows.
I've OS X crash doing everything from browsing the web and clicking on screenshots at gamespot.com to clicking Burn in a Burn Folder.
I've also had OS X refuse to shut down after plugging in an optical audio cable. That was in the 10.5.0 and 10.5.1 days.
iPhoto. And?
Not really. What a Mac does it does with more crashing, less choice, and more junk left behind.
Silly argument to make if you are on the PC side. Windows XP can't even read PDF files without downloading a 3rd party app
Ha ha, I'll add to that. Out of the box, Mac OS X can read MS Word docs, Powerpoint and Excel Spreadsheets without any additional software installed and no app needs to be launched to read them. One word for that, Quicklook.
Let's see, on Windows, out of the box with no software installed, it can't do any of the above, LOL, it can't even read files from it's company's own office suite, but Mac OS X can.
That's completely subjective. Especially with Windows 7, I would say that the two are pretty close in this category.
It's all about how to use the internet. Those that use it poorly on either platform can encounter malware. Those that don't participate in questionable activities typically don't have problems.
My experiences with Mac OS since Puma have been the exact opposite; I find myself restarting macs due to beachballing and general slowdowns than I do Windows. Since Mac OS tends to use all of the RAM it has available really quickly, I find that I start paging out sooner.
Neither are really high-maintenance platforms. I find myself repairing permissions in Mac OS just as often as I am fixing errors in Windows. I read more about fatal kernel panics (or whatever the proper term is for one that requires the drive to be formatted) on forums than I do Windows crashes; granted, I probably spend more time reading mac forums, but it doesn't seem that the problems are huge on either system, but both seem to have their fair share of moments with some users.
Windows also comes with apps that I find to be similar in ease of use and features. I can't really say that either suite is decent, though. I agree with others in saying that iPhoto is probably the only useful app in the iLife suite. I don't think that either suite is designed for high-quality and time-consuming projects, rather for quickie home videos or albums, and I think that both work equally well for the novice user.
g'morgen!
With many manufacturers starting to ship Open Office on their Windows machines, this point isn't really true. In fact, it could actually be considered a win for the other side as you can edit the files as well as view them out of the box. Also, I doubt that people are literally using this stuff right after turning on the computer for the first time, regardless of the system!HLdan said:
Apparently all of us who post here, and have lurked here, for years only did so to trash Apple. Didn't you know that?
How blinded can these zealots be?
How blinded can these zealots be?
I looked at macs but the hardware of the pro didn't meet my needs. Ok fanboys hold you vomit down. I bought a dell XPS which has been great, with W7 even better. It doubles as my portable HT with Blu-ray, 7.1 and HDMI out; 3 key components I wanted in my new machine.
I guess I would ahve been happier with a mac instead.
I guess I would ahve been happier with a mac instead.
That's hardly a counterpoint to my argument. That other poster that I refuse to acknowledge his forum name was stating that he shouldn't have to install 3rd party apps to increase functionality on his Mac since Windows does it all.
My point was Windows doesn't do it all however with no additional software OS X can read nearly all the major files that are transferred between all platforms.
Unless you are trying to purposely stomp on the Mac by that nonsense your posted to counter my argument there's no reason to refuse to acknowledge that Mac OS X does many things better than Windows out of the box. And yes, people will encounter these types of files from emails coming from friends and colleagues. The average person doesn't have a copy of Microsoft Office or know anything about Open Office nor do they know to download Adobe Reader, mostly geeks on these forums only know this stuff.
Who cares about editing stuff, I'm just referring to the out of the box experience in terms of functionality of the OS alone with no 3rd party apps installed. Mac OS X wins this hands down.
If you rely on someone elses benchmarks or benchmarks period to tell you anything about a computer system you will be severely mislead in the computer world.
I recall a thread of mine where everyone told me I was wrong when I stated games were running better with 512 video memory vs 256. I'm sitting there watching it on my desk with my own eyes yet people on the forums kept pointing me to some site "who's tests say otherwise".
as a neutral individual i can't understand why you guys are hating on mosx... just like anything in this world - it has flaws. are all mac users this guarded about their products? i am still going to purchase a mac. i still have my dell xps on hand. he is giving my money next weekend. i plan on boot camping windows 7. despite that, it is always good to see both sides of the fence.
often times i believe that users dilute their own thinking into believing their irrational thoughts are that of rational conclusions. nobody has anything to gain if one cannot be open minded.
when i read mosx posts - i don't feel like he is bashing osx - simply debating the differences one os to another. what is the matter with that? does that constitute him as a troll? ...i hope not. he isn't saying, "osx sucks - buy pc laptops" and nothing else. he actually does put time and effort into the posts and i thank him for being informative not only for myself but, i am sure for others even if they don't post here. in fact i wish more users were like mosx - be it either about apple or pc related matters.
with that being said - my experience with osx is deeply limited as i haven't used a mac from 1998-2001 ranging from desktop to powerbook. i just want something different now...and i had fond memories of my time with a mac. my fear is that i would feel limited by the freedom i had with microsoft os. whether that may be true or not is irrelevant as others have different opinions based on the same experiences. truth is perspective opinion after all - at least in this regard.
if a macbook can fulfill my needs without a hitch with adobe photoshop, illustrator, some video editing programs and StarCraft 2 (in bootcamp..which is the only game i would probably bother to play as i have a ps3, a gaming rig, xbox 360 and etc) then I am a-ok.
but, i think this thread should continue as debates are healthy for consumers.
again, thank you for everyone who is posting - and will continue to post in this thread. thanks again mosx...i look forward to more of your posts.
often times i believe that users dilute their own thinking into believing their irrational thoughts are that of rational conclusions. nobody has anything to gain if one cannot be open minded.
when i read mosx posts - i don't feel like he is bashing osx - simply debating the differences one os to another. what is the matter with that? does that constitute him as a troll? ...i hope not. he isn't saying, "osx sucks - buy pc laptops" and nothing else. he actually does put time and effort into the posts and i thank him for being informative not only for myself but, i am sure for others even if they don't post here. in fact i wish more users were like mosx - be it either about apple or pc related matters.
with that being said - my experience with osx is deeply limited as i haven't used a mac from 1998-2001 ranging from desktop to powerbook. i just want something different now...and i had fond memories of my time with a mac. my fear is that i would feel limited by the freedom i had with microsoft os. whether that may be true or not is irrelevant as others have different opinions based on the same experiences. truth is perspective opinion after all - at least in this regard.
if a macbook can fulfill my needs without a hitch with adobe photoshop, illustrator, some video editing programs and StarCraft 2 (in bootcamp..which is the only game i would probably bother to play as i have a ps3, a gaming rig, xbox 360 and etc) then I am a-ok.
but, i think this thread should continue as debates are healthy for consumers.
again, thank you for everyone who is posting - and will continue to post in this thread. thanks again mosx...i look forward to more of your posts.
TBH, the guy you're fanboying for never said a positive thing about Mac OS X since your OP, instead he pointed out everything negative about it and everything positive about Windows, there was never an even ground in his posts.
Also, TBH, you began instigating some of the hate posts going towards him from other posters. You were quite verbal in encouraging the heated debates. It was like you were enjoying watching people on the forum fight with him.
I don't mean to come down on you but if you want fair arguments you need to hear positives and negatives of both sides of the fence and the guy you're defending was not doing that at all. He sugar coated Windows and pointed out everything negative about OS X and even pointed out to you that you wasted your money going for the Mac.
Pouring water into a high end ibm thinkpad will produce a very different result to pouring water into a high end macbook.
Having options in hardware vendors is valuable as long as Apple doesn't build durable laptops.
I'm confident there were Apple fanatics cursing Apple upon figuring out they had to own a torx t6 screwdriver and remove the entire top case of their 2006-2008 model macbook pro and some stupid bracket just to put a new hard drive in it.
However, what it comes down to, is what makes you happy. People argue about why solution A is "better" but there is only reason for an argument if the decision's effects will be felt by many people. For the end consumer, it will only be felt by the person who buys the laptop. So buy what makes you happy.
Thanks for your very personal opinion.
I know it's useless to argue with you, but please explain how the start menu is easier than this - I'd say it's about the same:
Attachments
The Vista and 7 Start Menu have about the same success as Spotlight as an application launch.
As with Leopard the 7 one is much improved. I use Quicksilver on OS X or the Start Menu on Vista/7 just fine.
Who really digs through to find or launch an application anymore?
The main characteristics I looked at when buying for a laptop 2.5 years ago were:
I couldn't find anything that could match the MacBook Pro in those characteristics. Windows based laptops at that time were generally 3kg (without power adaptor), 2.5 inches thick, and 2.5 hours of battery life. I wasn't fussed about system specs. If you understand the "gigahertz myth" then you may also understand that a high-tech equipment doesn't make you highly productivity (Even if you type at an average of 100 words per minute, it's unlikely you'd finish a 6000 word essay/report in 1 hour). I was also happy with the screen resolution of the MacBook Pro as it was a lot higher than those found on Windows based laptops.
I've found VoiceOver to be superior to Window's text-to-speech offering. I use it often when I want to "read" onscreen-text while doing work away from the computer.
The system-wide dictionary feature is also very useful. I get spell check for free in most, if not all, text input boxes and also dictionary definitions in situ through the "look up dictionary" shortcut.
Mac OS is Unix compliant meaning I get to use command line tools that I'm familiar with from the Linux world. I am also able to use offerings such as python, ruby, gcc and associated frameworks without having to emulate the *nix system.
Windows tends to expose an enormous amount of features in an illogical manner. There are too many layers of pop-up windows hidden behind buttons.
Aero defaults to the butt ugly basic theme if a program is incompatible with the Aero interface. I thought interface consistency was at the forefront of Aero? On an unrelated note starting up CardSpace always disables Aero so it ends up using the butt ugly basic theme.
By the way, how much will it cost for someone to buy the "full" version of Windows 7? When I mean "full" I mean the "ultimate" or "extreme" version that will be available.
- Weight
- Size (thinness)
- Battery life
I couldn't find anything that could match the MacBook Pro in those characteristics. Windows based laptops at that time were generally 3kg (without power adaptor), 2.5 inches thick, and 2.5 hours of battery life. I wasn't fussed about system specs. If you understand the "gigahertz myth" then you may also understand that a high-tech equipment doesn't make you highly productivity (Even if you type at an average of 100 words per minute, it's unlikely you'd finish a 6000 word essay/report in 1 hour). I was also happy with the screen resolution of the MacBook Pro as it was a lot higher than those found on Windows based laptops.
I've found VoiceOver to be superior to Window's text-to-speech offering. I use it often when I want to "read" onscreen-text while doing work away from the computer.
The system-wide dictionary feature is also very useful. I get spell check for free in most, if not all, text input boxes and also dictionary definitions in situ through the "look up dictionary" shortcut.
Mac OS is Unix compliant meaning I get to use command line tools that I'm familiar with from the Linux world. I am also able to use offerings such as python, ruby, gcc and associated frameworks without having to emulate the *nix system.
Windows tends to expose an enormous amount of features in an illogical manner. There are too many layers of pop-up windows hidden behind buttons.
Aero defaults to the butt ugly basic theme if a program is incompatible with the Aero interface. I thought interface consistency was at the forefront of Aero? On an unrelated note starting up CardSpace always disables Aero so it ends up using the butt ugly basic theme.
By the way, how much will it cost for someone to buy the "full" version of Windows 7? When I mean "full" I mean the "ultimate" or "extreme" version that will be available.
Not interested in writing a mosx length post here... just wanted to pop in to say that:
Garageband is indeed an awesome piece of software, particularly if you happen to play an instrument
Aperture is not a competitor to Photoshop
Saying 'why do I need this' as a response to a piece of software isn't really an argument against it.
Garageband is indeed an awesome piece of software, particularly if you happen to play an instrument
Aperture is not a competitor to Photoshop
Saying 'why do I need this' as a response to a piece of software isn't really an argument against it.
wtf happens up there in the north?? lol. im at loughborough uni and tbh its the other way around in the comp science department. windows users get the piss taken out of them. so many lecturers use Macs and all the department (and a lot of uni computers) are imacs and mac pros
The way I see it is that for years Microsoft was the only option, so OEM's had to sell and market based on hardware and not on software, which is not how it should be done. When you compare hardware you are essentially comparing the least important part of the computer.
Sure it's nice to have a well designed computer with excellent hardware (guaranteed with every Mac), sure it's nice to reach a nice fps in games. But if software was efficiently coded, like it was in the old days, we wouldn't need $500 graphics cards to play games. As it stands, hardware has far outpaced software, which results in developers becoming lazy. Back in the 80's and 90's, you had to code within your means, just like with the original Mac.
The netbook has done the world a huge favour. Although many see them as a cheap, crappy laptop, they have single handedly forced the two largest OS manufacturers in the world to work hard on slimming down their respective OS's.
Sure it's nice to have a well designed computer with excellent hardware (guaranteed with every Mac), sure it's nice to reach a nice fps in games. But if software was efficiently coded, like it was in the old days, we wouldn't need $500 graphics cards to play games. As it stands, hardware has far outpaced software, which results in developers becoming lazy. Back in the 80's and 90's, you had to code within your means, just like with the original Mac.
The netbook has done the world a huge favour. Although many see them as a cheap, crappy laptop, they have single handedly forced the two largest OS manufacturers in the world to work hard on slimming down their respective OS's.
Um..no...his arguments are subjective, as in personal feelings towards a product. People gave him tons of examples of OS X only software, he doesn't like them.(Thats fine, but it doesn't mean OS X lacks 3rd party software). Those types of things are the majority of his posts.
He's claims that OS X is limited compared to Windows don't seem to have a backing, he just says it, and acts as though it is true.
I don't disagree with his "if you want only better specs" look at PC laptops (vs MacBook) for the price. If you're looking at the whole package, I'd be hard pressed to find a laptop I like more then the MacBook family(thats for me, if anyone would rather a windows laptop, go for it!)
You act like a defect with the product means that they have poor support, which is not the case. Support is the reaction to an unhappy customer or flaw with the system. If you hadn't noticed, HP just had a recall on batteries that caused fires? I suppose I should say that they have a lacking customer support, then? No, I enjoy talking to people who aren't outsourced, as I had previously done with Dell.
You're acting as if this caters to everyone. I don't watch Blu-Ray because I don't believe it's nearing the new standard. The way technology is today, I won't need to. When Blu-Ray prices drop alongside their players, that's when I'll start worrying that my Mac is unable to play the discs. Which, I'm assuming they will.Why not watch a blu-ray movie or try to play a modern game?
For you then, I would assume. I have had tons of software incompatibles under my switch to Vista, as a pre-bought machine. HP's own webcam didn't work until I went to the HP website and downloaded them (mind you, the control panel didn't automatically download it, nor manually). Don't you know where all this Vista crap is stemming from?
I disagree. There have already been benchmarks showing that XP had/has considerable more FPS when running games in comparison to Vista. I did not like the operating system regardless of the media. Sorry.
HDMI has just become the standard. I have no idea how you can say that it's everywhere. Perhaps if you're surrounded by the latest and greatest then maybe. Adapters are more than plastic and signal conversion and obviously take more than $1 to make. You need to map the pins and upload firmware. Then worry about the signal conversion.
Ok? So you're arguing about which standard is better? Obviously HDMI wins because it's been around longer and has more adaptations. Why is this relevant?
And you can, relatively easy. It assumes that different users need different things, it's not considered bloatware for those reasons. No, bloatware is what you get when you purchase a PC from a manufacturer. HP Wireless Service (which does nothing Windows can't do) takes up 1GB itself. Then you have the HP tools to make sure you PC is running fine (which does nothing apart from telling you when you need to update your warranty and to calibrate the battery) take up anther few GB. That is considered bloatware because it does little for the end user and is not something he/she can manipulate to use on his/her device for their own reasons.
A classic example. Just because you don't use it doesn't make it useless. Geez.
I'm sorry that you had such trouble with a Mac. You should return it/sell it/get rid of it in favor of a computer you're more comfortable with. I'm unsure why, knowing these downsides, you bought a Mac in the first place. I feel no reason to argue with you anymore and we each hold different opinions. I rather enjoy my Mac and prefer it over my two Windows/Ubuntu computers. The lack of software is meaningless to me because I have found all the third-party software one could need. And about your statement regrading the anti-trust law for Apple's SDK: it's a bunch of baloney. Windows does the same thing, so don't pull it over on Apple.
I gladly payed for my Mac. Because of my own reasons (so don't argue them):
The build. If I a going to be on this computer for four years, I had better be able to enjoy looking at it. So far, it's gorgeous.
The customer support. Honestly, I take solace in the fact that I am not speaking to men in India whom I cannot understand and they cannot understand given my accent. I have been hung up numerous times by Dell's "customer support" and one fellow went as far as saying "you are wasting my time." Once I asked him if I could quote him, he turned around by saying, "No, no, I said you're wasting you're time!" By the time I asked him for a physical address, he was saying, "Thank you for choosing Dell," and hung up. After which, I began recording all my calls to their consent and filed a lawsuit the attorney general in the state I lived in. I dropped it after receiving a call from Dell's Corporate Office and getting my refund. I will never buy from Dell again, nor will I ever recommend them. I should not have had to go that for for three defective machines that were rendered useless, not a minor issue.
All this speak about bloatware and people left antivirus software out of the picture. Even having NOD32 and Avira (perhaps the lightest software out there), they still took up a great deal of resources when not running scans.
Fanboying really? *rolls eyes*
Also, it was a slow day at work and the debate was interesting for ME, so sure I wanted it to go on. So, I won't lie - I was enjoying a good debate.
I do understand where you are coming from however, the guy isn't holding a gun to my head and saying, "mac osx sucks and go buy a pc laptop instead." now, i know thats a tad bit extreme and a gross over exaggeration but, i've been using windows for a very long time as a power user and some things i agree with mosx and others i deeply feel differently about. the appeal about mosx is that whether his thoughts are clear and concise or jaded isn't the point to me - he brings out the other apple users in directly debating on a consumer level (or at least that was what i was hoping for) on their own experiences - because as we all know each user has a different experience than the next. its very informative to read these posts... but, alas thats really just me...can't speak for anyone else.
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