I couldn't argue back...

[coachingguy]

Dear mosx,

if you are so unhappy with your Macs and OSX experience, why are you still hanging around and posting here?

The assembled obviously are not going to be able to change your mind and your just continuing to take a smackdown!

To the OP, you'll be very happy with your Macbook. My wife has a top end Dell desktop at work. However, since I upgraded to a MBP and gave her my old MB (white) she usually ends up doing her work on it instead. Basically for her, it just works easier and ultimately, isn't that what we want from our technology?

Coachingguy

 

[decksnap]

Ha ha, WRONG. Go right in the pictures folder in Leopard and you can view every picture in Icon View all at once and you can zoom the sizes. Wanna browse through larger size photos? Set it in Cover Flow view and thumb through all you want. Want to view large size photos individually? Select any one pic and hit the space bar and Quicklook will zoom the picture to full size. All these ways of viewing pictures have nothing to do with Preview or iPhoto.
Get you're facts straight, Windows can't do this.

It's very hard to take any thing he says seriously when he writes things like this:

Which is why I said it costs half as much as Photoshop and isn't even 1/4 as capable. Why should I spend so much money on an app that does no more than what other free apps do?

mosx, maybe you should google Aperture and Lightroom? They aren't the same product category as Photoshop. If you are a professional photographer, you are likely using one of these two. (and photoshop as well, but not for the same reasons.)

 

[zap2]

The problem is you have to actually make the stack. It's not like that out of the box in OS X.

Look, I'm confused...all you do is talk about how great third party apps are, but when someone suggest personalizing OS X so it fits you're need more thats bad because it doesn't ship like that? One or the other man

2.5 inches thick 2.5 years ago? I don't think so. PC notebooks have been averaging about 1.5" thick for a few years now.

Are you sure? Or did you just make those numbers up on the spot?...but if you have a source, I'd love to see it!

All of the HPs I've had in the last 3 years have gotten 3-3.5 hours of battery life. Which is the same real world battery life as the MacBook and MacBook Pro, seeing as how you have to have the screen set to 50% brightness on the Mac to get it to be usable.

More me with "I" statements, I'm sorry, but one persons experiances aren't "evidence" for any agruement

Some cheaper 16" systems sport 1366x768, but thats better than the MacBook Pro because its actually a 16x9 aspect ratio and not 16x10. .

So much personal feelings in your posts! Lovely, but meanless to the debate

Besides, even Vista Basic still looks better than the depressing grey of OS X.

Again personal feelings, please stop presenting it as fact

Only Home Premium and Pro will be available to consumers. Ultimate and the other versions will only be available to specific customers.

Source? Because its not like that today!(with Vista) But either way, Apple doesn't cripple its OSes, MS does. I like Apple's way, you can feel free to like MSes way

Thats why it took 2 replacements after 8 trips out for repair for me to finally get a problem free Mac.

Personal story, pretty worthless on such a small scale

I have yet to see anyone prove that OS X does as much as Windows does.

The burden of proof is upon you! Watch

"There is a cookie on pluto"

You wouldn't just believe me, would you? No, you'd want proof, and we want proof that OS X does less then Windows

When you look at the whole package, you'll see that Macs fall even farther behind PCs. Not only do they tend to cost twice as much as equally spec'ed PCs, but you'll see that you're getting a far more limited system in terms of specs and connectivity. A $1299 PC will have twice the RAM of a $1999 MacBook Pro, will have the same CPU, twice the HDD space, blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, VGA, eSATA, higher screen resolution, etc. etc. Then you look at the software and you'll see that OS X doesn't have nearly the same amount of third party software available, or even the quality of 3rd party software, and the pack-in software is mostly software you won't use.
.

Look, stop telling ME, what I like. First off, the don't cost nearly 2x equally speced PCs, when you consider the form factors they take(so compare an all-in-one PC to iMac). RAM and HDD are easy upgrades(for me, so I'm ok with a PC/Mac that ships with less...if you aren't, thats fine, buy what you like). Again stop tell me what pack in software I plan to use! Seriously, you don't have to like it, but many do, I happen to be one who does.

And Apple's customer support, again, is no better than the rest. I've never had any company other than Apple have an "executive" customer relations person call me up and accuse me of trying to scam the company out of a refund when all I wanted was my system repaired and I had made that very clear in my emails, phone calls, and voice mails.

Again with thinking you're person experience equal fact? Go look at reviews on a large scale, consumer reports...Apple wins their consumer service often. This isn't all about one person

And what do you mean you won't need to? Downloaded movies from iTunes and Amazon and Netflix can't even begin to compare to blu-ray quality.

Shocking as it may be, not everyone is looking for the same things you are. This is a time when your wants/needs might be different from others!

I've had none. And I'm playing 10 year old games like the original Unreal!.

Again, personal touch is nice, but doesn't give us a real picture

HP has been using the same webcam module for about 3 years now. I've had it on several different systems as well as XP and Vista. I have NEVER had it not work.

Another touching personal story!

HDMI has just become the standard? No. PC GPUs started shipping with HDMI way back in 2003. Those desktop GPUs couldn't pass audio, but they did support the video standard. ./QUOTE]
Starting to ship and standard aren't the same

Wrong and wrong. Both services only take up a few hundred megabytes. Both can be uninstalled easily.

Wait, wait.....when someone suggested playing with Finder to fit your wants better, that was bad because it didn't ship like that, these extra worthless programs are fine? Double Standard?

y.
Because I didn't know the downsides when I first bought it. You see, Apple and the Apple Apologists don't tell you the real story about owning a Mac or the hardware limitations. All you hear about is how great it is. It isn't until after you buy it and use it in your own home do you realize that you didn't get as much as you could have hardware wise and the software is incredibly limited and unstable.

Please, cut the Apple supports are "evil" its childish and untrue. Apple owners range from all different types of people

No, you'll just talk to someone in the United States with a very thick Spanish accent that is just as difficult to understand.
.

(Never happened to me) And based off large scale reports(you know, the things that mean something), doesn't seem to be a big issue.

Just like when Ken Bell called me and told me I was trying to scam Apple out of a refund when I had told him in numerous voice mails and emails that all I wanted was a repair.

Again personal touch is nice, but consumer reports and other studies aren't backing you up, sorry

The same way I had to end up on my third Mac before finally getting one without problems?
.

Again person story, adding no meaning full facts to the thread

Thats after getting yelled at by "Executive Customer Support" mind you. /QUOTE]
Third in a row! Personal story≠ useful facts

USB card readers are slower than built-in card readers.

Blanket statements with sources to back them up are fun! And easy!!

Nearly all built-in fingerprint readers on notebook PCs are made and sold by AuthenTec. Thats what I've had in every HP, and thats the one I have now that works fine under Windows 7. So you're either being dishonest or you have a different manufacturer.

No, someone having an experience that isn't just like yours? Can't be!

Just like Apple's executive support calling you and yelling at you

See all my other statements are personal stories and their worthlessness to the debate as meaningful fact

iWeb is nothing more than a paid version of free tools that are available for Windows. It's nothing special and every site looks the same.

Really? Can you point me to software that works as well as iWeb with Apple's MobileMe...because thats what I'm looking for?(if you aren't, thats fine, but don't pretend iWeb alternatives are universally better for all)

Two of my Macs did ship with Office and iWork trials. They also shipped with some nonsense board game trialware.

Two whole copies of popular software? Oh, no! Could you handle dragging them to the trash can? Certainly no PC has this issue on a much larger scale

Mine have always worked every single time. Works perfect on the first swipe.

These personal storys are just great! And meaningless for the debate!

I have the Bluetooth Logitech MX Revolution, as well as the MX5500 keyboard. If I use OS X's built-in bluetooth I lose the connection all the time and it's impossible for me to wake the system up without opening the lid and causing the multiple displays to get messed up.

Personal stories stay great! And meaningless for the debate!

Not really. Look at the "Preview" app in OS X. If I want to preview a picture I double click the picture. But guess what? In OS X I can only look at that one picture. In Windows I can look at EVERY picture from just that one. I can hit left and right and go through the entire folder. In OS X I'd have to click on each individual one to preview it.

This is simply not true, you just are using OS X/Preview incorrectly(if goal through lots of pictures is your goal). Preview is an app where you open the file. To just see the file, click it once, and press the space bar. Then you can move left and right as you please.

I've yet to see anyone provide a real argument against me. Especially you.

Well here it is...point by point, calling you out on worthless personal stories and pointing out when you missed features of OS X

Which is why I said it costs half as much as Photoshop and isn't even 1/4 as capable. Why should I spend so much money on an app that does no more than what other free apps do?

They are different app, they do different things. You shouldn't spend money on it, if you don't need it. Does mean there isn't a market for it.

Second, I've had OS X crash on everything from clicking on links in Safari to emptying the trash of pictures to trying to burn discs.

Windows, on the other hand, has always been 100% rock solid on all of my Macs. )

More with the "me, me, me", enough already!

Macs do run hotter than PCs. My unibody MacBook averages about 30-40F hotter than my HP. I have a Targus cooling pad that moves 36CFM of air. Even with that on full, my Mac's CPU (2GHz Core 2 Duo Penryn) idles at about 130F. My HP's 2GHz Core 2 Duo Merom (a hotter running model) idles at 91F. Without the cooling pad the Mac idles at about 140F while the HP idles at about 105F. Under full load the difference is even bigger. The Mac CPU can get up to around 180F while the HP stays around 130 under full load. The GPUs run around the same as the CPUs.

So blanket statement(Mac run hotter then PCs) followed by one personal example? Wow...thats great, but only proves that one example, nothing else

 

[zap2]

mosx - just out of curiosity what are the things that apple osx does well that microsoft os can't? or...even in general?

For me, its not that...most OSes can do what I'm looking for. So its less of what each OS does, but how each OS does it.

OS X wins that contest...for me.

 

[pellets007]

Mine have always worked every single time. Works perfect on the first swipe.

Forgive me, as I explained that I would not argue with you again, as we hold different opinions. But your stating the Bluetooth isn't useful, and multitouch is a gimmick, yet you state the fingerprint readers aren't? C'mon man. Those things are hardly reliable and passwords are far more secure; obvious propaganda.

 

[aristobrat]

just out of curiosity what are the things that apple osx does well that microsoft os can't? or...even in general?

I know you asked mosx, but here's my list. My background is that I've been managing enterprise-sized Windows networks since the late 90's, so Windows is my career, and OS X is what I use at home.

Time Machine. Every time a file is changed, OS X makes a note of it. Every hour Time Machine runs wirelessly and makes a backup of those files. It doesn't simply keep "the latest version", ... it keeps all of the copies it backed up, so I can chose which version of the file I want should I need to recover it.

Spotlight. When you save a file, OS X indexes the content right then and there.

Spaces. I like putting certain applications on their own desktop. For example, I like to leave Quicken open all of the time, but I don't want its five windows cluttering up my screen. So I run Quicken in its own space. I also like to mess around with other operating systems, so I'll have VMWare Fusion running in "full screen" mode in another space. When I switch to that space, it looks like I'm natively using that operating system.

Expose + screen shortcuts. I love being able to quickly scoot my mouse to the upper-right hand corner of the screen and having OS X show me the desktop of all of my Spaces at once. If I scoot my mouse to the bottom right hand corner, it tiles all of the windows open in that Space, making it super easy to switch applications when you have a lot open at once.

The multi-touch trackpad. When I'm not using an external mouse/keyboard, I can swipe four-fingers down on my MBP to see Expose. Or four-fingers up to quickly show the desktop. Two fingers scrolls in any app, and for me, it's way easier than using the right or bottom sides of a Windows laptop (for those that let you scroll like that with a special area of the trackpad).

Dashboard. One key or mouse click and my widgets fly over my open apps, showing me what I need. Another key press and they go away. I never understood Windows Sidebar. I minimizing all of your programs really the only way to see your widgets?

I love the quality and integration of the apps that come in the Mac. For example, I love the data detectors in Mail. A friend sends me an email with an invite in it, and Mail detects the date mentioned and lets me create a new iCal invite. Another friend sends me new contact information, and Mail detects that and lets me update their Address Book entry (without having to cut and paste the stuff manually). Or how when you go to upload something to a website, the "browser" window has an option for your media in it, so if you can quickly to into your iPhoto/Aperature/Pictures pictures without having to manually go grogging around the file system.

I like how the Address Book book has options to sync with Yahoo! and Google. iCal syncs with Google.

I like how when I move to a new Mac, how the new Mac can copy all of my data, settings and applications from my old Mac automatically.

There's probably 20 more things I could add, but it's dinner time.

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

- how long do typical mac users need to upgrade their macbooks based on software and os upgrades?

- do users need to pay for system upgrades (in comparison to windows service packs)?

- how stable is the bluetooth connectivity (ala bluetooth mice) with the macbooks? frequent disconnect?

- how often does apple release updates for boot camp? i am under the impression that apple controls the users windows experience...

- does osx have the equivalent to crt+alt+del in the case of a lock up?

also how are individuals claiming that when they open several apps there cpu is bogged down and its heating up when this user achieves this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67LsBJWEVOo

 

[aethelbert]

- how long do typical mac users need to upgrade their macbooks based on software and os upgrades?

It's probably about the same as Windows system, seeing as the hardware is pretty much identical.

- do users need to pay for system upgrades (in comparison to windows service packs)?

10.4 to 10.5, etc, yes you do pay. But 10.5.0 to 10.5.1, no, you do not pay.

- how stable is the bluetooth connectivity (ala bluetooth mice) with the macbooks? frequent disconnect?

It's about the same. I get dropped connections probably once a month on both.

- does osx have the equivalent to crt+alt+del in the case of a lock up?

cmd-option-esc works for force quitting stuff, but it's rare to see an application lock up the entire system. Usually when one dies, it needs to be force quitted. But at the same time as it's frozen, you can use other applications.

 

[pellets007]

- how long do typical mac users need to upgrade their macbooks based on software and os upgrades?

Comparable to Windows laptops, I would think. If you have a PowerPC processor, you cannot upgrade to Snow Leopard which comes out later this year. Similar to how you shouldn't run Vista on a Pentium 4. Macs generally maintain their processors longer than PCs which leads to better support for the hardware. On the other hand, you're not getting the latest and greatest.

- do users need to pay for system upgrades (in comparison to windows service packs)?

Nope.

- how stable is the bluetooth connectivity (ala bluetooth mice) with the macbooks? frequent disconnect?

I am curious as well, as I am looking for a new mouse.

- how often does apple release updates for boot camp? i am under the impression that apple controls the users windows experience...

No, Apple practically only installs the drivers so you can seamlessly enjoy the experience under Windows; no going to Nvidia to download the driver. In answer to your question : whenever it's needed. I have yet to see one, but I've only done one upgrade to this computer (10.5.7, which was free).

- does osx have the equivalent to crt+alt+del in the case of a lock up?

No. It has something known as a kernel panic which means that something is affecting the root of the system and it cannot recover in its present state. It usually means hardware error or failure, not a driver issues as is under Windows.

EDIT: Oops, forgot that there is the CMD+Option+ESC for applications that lock up.

 

[bruinsrme]

There is mention of blu-ray and HDMI and other things.
This is why I went with a Dell. It had the built in card reader, it had the HDMI out and supported other vid out. Blu-ray was a must for me.
The macbookpro was on my short list but simply lacked the hardware i was looking for. No matter how good Macs and OSX are, it did not match my needs.

Spend $3000 on a laptop that doesn't meet my needs or $2000 on something that does.

I am waiting to see what happens in the next month or so and if the mac lineup has something I like and is reasonably price I will be getting one. I just feel the MB is about 25% more than they should be, but that just might be because I am used to PC pricing.

 

[zap2]

- how long do typical mac users need to upgrade their macbooks based on software and os upgrades?

Well thats 100% up to a each owner...I upgrade almost when ever Apple puts out their new OS, but I'm a bit of a geek! Admittedly, my hardware is on the older side(soon to be 3 years old)

- do users need to pay for system upgrades (in comparison to windows service packs)?

Well yes and no. Smaller upgrades (like 10.5.6-> 10.5.7) are free, while bigger upgrades( 10.4->10.5) cost money. Currently the going right is 129 for the past few upgrades. You'll get people who think this is good or bad.

- how stable is the bluetooth connectivity (ala bluetooth mice) with the macbooks? frequent disconnect?

Not that I know of, so most likely not on a large scale. Never for me(although I don't own a MacBook, I own a Mini)

- how often does apple release updates for boot camp? i am under the impression that apple controls the users windows experience...

Not to often...most of the time its just so Boot Camp works well with recently released hardware. Apple doesn't really control Windows experience on a Mac, once Windows is installed, when you boot into it, its basically a normal PC

- does osx have the equivalent to crt+alt+del in the case of a lock up?

Yes, its knows as "force quit"
Use it by pressing ""+"option"+"esc"

 

[bruinsrme]

There have been a number of posts in other threads regarding windows update.

Just from I gather some Mac users bash it pretty hard.

Why is that?

For me with multiple computers with multiple configurations, I find it extremely convenient to ensure software and drivers are the latest versions. 7 of the 8 computers are on auto download and install. One laptop is running 98se.

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

There have been a number of posts in other threads regarding windows update.

Just from I gather some Mac users bash it pretty hard.

Why is that?

For me with multiple computers with multiple configurations, I find it extremely convenient to ensure software and drivers are the latest versions. 7 of the 8 computers are on auto download and install. One laptop is running 98se.

i really do enjoy windows update. microsoft really did improve it over the years imo. it downloads pretty much any driver update for my gpu, software updates and etc that i might need and if i choose not to download it - i don't.

i don't think anything is wrong with windows update...

 

[pellets007]

- when i install windows...is it the actual FULL install and can update drivers by going to nvdia and what not or am i limited?

Yes, it's the full install, but I don't think that you can install the drivers from the companies website. You insert the applications disk that comes with your Mac. It'll install all the drivers and give you the trackpad options.

- if something occurs on my boot camp partition - will osx be affected? can i still access osx?

Not unless something happens to the entire HDD, such as a failure. It's almost as if installing another HDD.

- am i able to increase the partition without needing to reinstall windows?

Not sure.

- how often does apple usually release updates to os (ala service packs)

They're a bit minor in comparison to service packs, but they release them every so often, more often than Microsoft.

- what is this i hear about needing to reset pram (or whatever its called) if something goes wrong? anything else i should know?

This is your guide.

I've had a Mac for three months and I've yet to have to reset anything, nor have I had a kernel panic. If that's any consolidation; not that I'm expecting one.

wait, you have to pay for upgrades within the current os? i thought he was suggesting that you pay for an actual os upgrade like leopard to snow leopard...how can anyone view that as a positive thing????

What? No. You have to pay $129 for the new operating system when it comes out. Upgrading from 10.5.0 to 10.5.1 or 10.5.2 (and so on and so forth) is free. "10" indicates OS X, not a new operating system. The second decimal, "5," indicates the specific operating system such as Leopard. The last decimal represents the "service pack."

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

- when i install windows...is it the actual FULL install and can update drivers by going to nvdia and what not or am i limited?

- if something occurs on my boot camp partition - will osx be affected? can i still access osx?

- am i able to increase the partition without needing to reinstall windows?

- how often does apple usually release updates to os (ala service packs)

- what is this i hear about needing to reset pram (or whatever its called) if something goes wrong? anything else i should know?

- big hugs to all those who answer my endless questions...i would like to think others who read this get their own questions answered as well.

--------------------------------

wait, you have to pay for upgrades within the current os? i thought he was suggesting that you pay for an actual os upgrade like leopard to snow leopard...how can anyone view that as a positive thing????

also, what are my options in connecting a macbook to my hdtv? i really enjoyed that experience with my dell when i downloaded something and gathered the family to watch a movie and etc with my dell connected via hdmi to the tv. if i can't...then that would surely be a missed feature...

 

[zap2]

wait, you have to pay for upgrades within the current os? i thought he was suggesting that you pay for an actual os upgrade like leopard to snow leopard...how can anyone view that as a positive thing???? (

You only have to(assuming you want to) pay for 10.5.X->10.6.0, the smaller 10.5.6->10.5.7 are free.

This is good in my eyes because it keep Apple upgrading software often, and I'd rather have the ability to get new software often. Versus XP-> Vista which took so long. And the cost to upgrade wasn't that much less then a couple Apple upgrades.

 

[bruinsrme]

- when i install windows...is it the actual FULL install and can update drivers by going to nvdia and what not or am i limited?

- if something occurs on my boot camp partition - will osx be affected? can i still access osx?

- am i able to increase the partition without needing to reinstall windows?

- how often does apple usually release updates to os (ala service packs)

- what is this i hear about needing to reset pram (or whatever its called) if something goes wrong? anything else i should know?

- big hugs to all those who answer my endless questions...i would like to think others who read this get their own questions answered as well.

--------------------------------

wait, you have to pay for upgrades within the current os? i thought he was suggesting that you pay for an actual os upgrade like leopard to snow leopard...how can anyone view that as a positive thing????

also, what are my options in connecting a macbook to my hdtv? i really enjoyed that experience with my dell when i downloaded something and gathered the family to watch a movie and etc with my dell connected via hdmi to the tv. if i can't...then that would surely be a missed feature...

Its good stuff, I am learning about OSX. sothanks

 

[pellets007]

also, what are my options in connecting a macbook to my hdtv? i really enjoyed that experience with my dell when i downloaded something and gathered the family to watch a movie and etc with my dell connected via hdmi to the tv. if i can't...then that would surely be a missed feature..

You can easily do that with this.

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Yes, it's the full install, but I don't think that you can install the drivers from the companies website. You insert the applications disk that comes with your Mac. It'll install all the drivers and give you the trackpad options.

...so i can't install the latest driver updates for the 9400m on the windows partition? see there is too much conflicted posts about it runs as its own and others seem to post that it is a diluted experience... can someone please clarify what i can and can't do? and also can i increase the partition size for windows without needing to reformat? and if something goes wrong - is osx affected? can i still access osx?

 

[Eidorian]

...so i can't install the latest driver updates for the 9400m on the windows partition? see there is too much conflicted posts about it runs as its own and others seem to post that it is a diluted experience... can someone please clarify what i can and can't do?

There's nothing preventing you from installing the manufacturer's drivers over in Windows.

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

You can easily do that with this.

has anyone used something like this with a unibody macbook and how is the sound quality? does it even output sound?

 

[pellets007]

...so i can't install the latest driver updates for the 9400m on the windows partition? see there is too much conflicted posts about it runs as its own and others seem to post that it is a diluted experience... can someone please clarify what i can and can't do? and also can i increase the partition size for windows without needing to reformat? and if something goes wrong - is osx affected? can i still access osx?

Seems I was mistaken; yes you can download them via the manufactures webpage. Which, in retrospect, why wouldn't you be able to? Sorry. But what point is that when you can insert the disc and having everything done for you. And furthermore have better trackpad support. What do you want to do? It can run everything given the hardware limitations and OS limitations. Windows is Windows. If anything goes wrong, assuming the hard drive didn't fail, you can restart the computer while pressing the Option button to select which partition you want to boot into. Be that OS X. Yes, it''s be fine.

has anyone used something like this with a unibody macbook and how is the sound quality? does it even output sound?

Given the software limitations of Mini DP under OS X, you cannot transmit audio, to my understanding.

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Seems I was mistaken; yes you can download them via the manufactures webpage. Which, in retrospect, why wouldn't you be able to? Sorry. But what point is that when you can insert the disc and having everything done for you. And furthermore have better trackpad support. What do you want to do? It can run everything given the hardware limitations and OS limitations. Windows is Windows. If anything goes wrong, assuming the hard drive didn't fail, you can restart the computer while pressing the Option button to select which partition you want to boot into. Be that OS X. Yes, it''s be fine.

Given the software limitations of Mini DP under OS X, you cannot transmit audio, to my understanding.

- you reply was a little confusing. maybe because i am exhausted and work at the hospital is a bit slow. but, the information on the disc isn't always going to be the latest. driver updates are some of the best ways to squeeze out performance and stability especially in terms of gaming.

- still my question on can i increase the partition allocated for windows being able to increase without the need to reformat hasn't been answered.

- so that mini dp wouldn't work for me. is there ANY solution to where i can utilize my macbook to connect with video AND sound to my hdtv?

 

[Roller]

I've yet to see anyone provide a real argument against me.

I'm looking forward to reading your rebuttal to my comment about your statement that PDF files are useless.

 

[iMacmatician]

I'm looking forward to reading your rebuttal to my comment about your statement that PDF files are useless.

So am I. I'm glad that all of you made those rebuttals, that's exactly what I was looking for!